Tod Daniels

While I am loathe to post shortcomings concerning my understanding of the thai language here on the T/V Thai Language Forum ; I freely admit I have more than my share of difficulties understanding spoken thai . Even thai which is enunciated clearly and I already know the subject of what we're talkin' about can and is sometimes difficult for me to understand given my penchant for back translating it into english .

The video below of a song by เสก โลโซ (Sek Loso) called เหงาคิดถึงรอ (Lonely, Missing You, Waiting), has an intro where it seems he explains the creative process behind writing it. Sadly (for me), it's got the some of the song overlaid on the voice over making it less than understandable for me. Add in, that (at least to me) he speaks quite fast and it makes my comprehension quite the tough row to hoe.

I'd really like to know the gist of what he said (if not the play by play translation), versus my catching a phrase or word here and there. Any and ALL help is greatly appreciated.

FWIW: I do believe Sek is speaking quite clear thai . I'm also pretty sure ANY thai would understand it 'right outta the proverbial gate'; I just don't have a 'spare thai' hanging around my house today to help me out on this.

Thanx in advance for you patience, your understanding and more importantly your english translation.

EDIT: I already know and understand the vocab and the lyrics to the song! It's just the beginning voice over I'm not quite sure on.

This points out the glaring differences in what a particular Immigrations Office requires compared to another location since they've implemented the zone system for immigrations. It also makes me thankful I deal with Changwattana, where things run pretty much as advertised .

I was at Changwattana yesterday and had FIVE 90-day reports to turn in for various and sundry clients. If you go out to Changwattana, they only want the new form, the receipt they gave you from the previous 90 day reporting (it's the bottom third of the form), and your passport. There was a runner from a thai translation service ahead of me who had at least 20-25 passports. Evidently a lucrative business for them.

As 90 day reporting doesn't hafta be done in person. If you live in Bangkok you can mail it to Changwattana at this address;

IMMIGRATION BUREAU (90 DAYS REGISTRATION)

90 DAYS REPORTING SECTION

Immigration Bureau (Imm. Div. 1)

Chalermprakiat Government Complex

120 Moo 3, Chaengwattana Soi 7

Tungsonghong, Laksi District,

Bangkok 10210

If you do mail it in; they require the following copies;

picture page of your passport

current permission to stay stamp

last entry stamp into thailand

copy of your departure card

receipt from your last report.

filled out TM-47

What is actually strange is, when they mail your new receipt back to you; ALL the copies are returned as well, so you can use 'em over and over.

If you do mail it, send it either registered thai post or EMS, so you have proof you reported on time in case there’s a hiccup. Also please note; LATE reporting cannot be done by mail.

FWIW: Yesterday a guy got pissy with the immigrations officer in the 90 day reporting section as he was 18 days late, and the grace period is 7 days before/after your actual report date. She didn't take kindly to his attitude. So instead of the 'normal' 2000 baht (bad dog ) fine, she hit him with the 'posted' maximum of 5000 baht (VERY BAD DOG ) fine. Needless to say he was not a ‘happy camper’ when he left, and he let everyone in the office know about it.

FWIW: This used to be the application you filled out at the old Immigrations Office 'Suan Plu', when you needed a residency certificate.

Address Verification Immigrations.pdf

They'd mail you the official document about a week after. I've used for getting a thai driver's license, and other times I've had to show I'm actually living where I live .

I would imagine the new office out at Changwattana also offers it but don’t really know . Nor do I know if the other Immigrations offices scattered hither and yon across the country offer it or something comparable either . Next time I go out to Changwattana, I'll ask if they still offer the service .

It's proven time and again to be a valuable document to have in your possession. Often times this document supersedes the need for a lease, rental contracts, receipts, etc.

It was also FAR cheaper costing 100baht rather than the US Embassy's document for address verification (which is now $50US) .

I Googled their website.

They have an 'international store link here;

http://lannainnovation.com/store/

On the above link; they have a slide-share dealy which shows an example of a consonant card and a vowel card. Click the full screen icon for a good look at the cards .

Looking at the examples there seems to be extensive info on the cards for pronunciation, tongue/lip position when speaking and other info as well.

Quite possibly a very good learning tool; which has just been under or poorly marketed. FWIW; I've never seen 'em for sale around (but then again never looked too closely either ).

This post relates ONLY to my experience at Changwattana, and your mileage at any other immigration office in thailand may vary.

Sorry in advance that this is a long post . My penchant for bloviation is all too well known on the T/V forum .

SPECIAL NOTE:For the T/V readers who don’t want to read the entire post; the condensed version is; A person can garner an extension of stay out at Changwattana two months before their current one expires IF they have ‘special circumstances’ AND the documentation to back up the necessity of doing so.

POST:

I usually shepherd people to/from Changwattana at least once a week, sometimes more often. This was the first time I was asked to help secure a yearly extension of stay TWO months before the clients current one expired.

He was embarking on a S/E Asian tour for 3 months and by the time he'd return to thailand his current extension of stay would have expired. That'd compel him to start the Non-O, yearly extension process again. From what he said that would throw a wrench in the gears as he wants to apply for P/R. The little I understand about the process of P/R; the extensions of stay must be un-broken.

Anyway, despite my warning to the client on several occasions; he neglected to bring the confirmation of departure for the tour. Needless to say, the Immigrations Officer who we sat in front of was less than thrilled at this lack of forethought on the applicant’s part (as was I). We were told in no uncertain terms that it could be done ONLY a month before. However, realizing ANY bureaucrat in ANY country simply follows rules, and usually doesn't want to be compelled to think outside the box; I politely asked if we could talk to her "supervisor".

FWIW; the supervisor at Changwattana for section L (where you get retirement, marriage and dependent visas) is behind counter number 35. She's the woman in the far back corner there who you meet right at the end of the extension process. She circles, underlines, and initials some pieces of your paperwork and initials the visa extension in your passport before handing it back, when you're done. I've seen here countless times so far this year, and she was the same woman at Suan Plu before they closed. She asked me why the client needed to renew it so early. I politely pointed out the reason for the early renewal, and also the lack of support documentation to verify this was indeed a 'real situation'. She told me what I wanted was handled on a case-by-case basis; it shouldn't be attempted without documentation supporting the need for it. She did relent although I had to write a small paper saying that next year the client knew he couldn't receive another extension of stay until 30 days or less was remaining on the current one. Not an issue really, but they did put it in his file, so if he tries next year, I'm sure they'd point out the paper from this year. I'm quite sure that with proper documentation to verify the necessity of securing an extension of stay early, it'd have probably sailed thru without having to go up a level for permission.

All in all quite painless, quite pleasant. While Changwattana is a longer slog to reach than Suan Plu was, from the mouth of my Soi near Asok/Sukhumvit; using the expressway and then the elevated toll-way we got there in under 20 minutes, for 225 baht all in. The amenities of major bank offices, food courts, restruarants, coffee shops, copy/photo shops, etc at Changwattana far out-weighs the distance difference. I always hated to go to that cramped, tiny cluster fuc_k that Suan Plu was.

I concur with several other posters; the immigrations officials aren't jovial by any stretch of the imagination. They are not rude either, just curt, to the point and all business. Believe me if I had to deal with the plethora of often ill-prepared, poorly presented (as in improperly dressed for dealing with a thai government official, especially one who has ANY control over if you can stay here or not) and sometimes rude foreigners who parade thru there, I wouldn't be jovial either.

The MAJOR factors which slow the entire process down out there is;

LACK of proper copies of the relevant passport pages which have entry/exit stamps, visa extensions, departure card. This forces people to go down in the basement to secure additional copies. For some reason which eludes me, the copy shops are NO WHERE near the immigrations office, but past BOTH food courts, so quite a slog. When in doubt, copy any thai stamp in your passport, they'll discard what you don't need. Don't forget to sign or initial EVERY copy you make.

Another reason is lack of supporting documentation for the extension you're trying to secure. With this and other nameless forums out there, it's NOT rocket science to know what you need. At least at Changwattana it's not.

The next reason is improperly filled out or use of the wrong form entirely. The information people just after you enter Changwattana's front door possess excellent english skills (far and away superior to what passed for engrish at Suan Plu). There are plenty of desks/chairs, pens, tables, pots of glue, etc where you can sit and fill out your forms FIRST before securing a queue number. While they have a sign saying if your forms aren't filled out they won't give you a queue ticket, I didn't see any evidence of checking them at all.

The last reason really is an Immigrations oversight issue. For retirement extensions they have 3 extra forms you fill out at the end of the process which are NOT on any website for downloading nor at the desk that hands out blank forms. One says you'll have 800K in the bank for the required time BEFORE applying next year. Another says you realize your extension of stay is dependant on your following the rules of said extension and it can be revoked if you don't. The last one is quite ambiguous and is basically a personal guarantee paper saying you guarantee you're who you say, live where you live, and have sufficient funds to live here. Really after reading it several times I still don't quite get the gist of it, and it has WAY too many blank fields to fill out quickly.

I've included scans of the three forms. BTW; going with them already filled out is met with surprise by the Immigrations Officers and certainly speeds you thru the process.

Financial Notification.pdf

Terms.pdf

Statement.pdf

I thought the video was quite moving and didn't paint any particular color of shirt wearing thais in any more negative of light than, err the other color of shirt wearing thais.

FWIW: 'rdockum' posted the video on You Tube with engrish subtitles for the people who can't understand thai. Unless I am mistaken (which I frequently am ) I believe he's Rikker; one of the Modz from the T/V Thai Language forum.)

And another poster; 'katana' took the time to write the dialog down in thai as well ;

Note to Modz: If this video has been banned again, lemme know when my 'vacation' ends. ..

What I’d like to know is;

How did a thread on the P/M saying Thailand objected to the Cambodian management plan for the Preah Vihear temple ruins turn into a my cock is bigger than yours pissing match between the posters known as "Rucharee" and "mizzi39"? I don't care if you live in Nakhon Nowhere or whether you're 'born again' red, green, yellow, sky blue pink, or rainbow color . The mind truly wobbles how these posts can go so off topic so quickly.

BACK-ON-TOPIC

There are 4.6 square kilometers of basically totally useless economically unviable land in dispute and claimed by both countries. Granted that land just happens to also be the easiest way into the temple complex itself as goin' there from the Cambodian side is a tough row to hoe.

Now a sensible person might actually be lead to believe that thailand could capitalize on this 'easy access'. They could reap no small sum in fees charged to all and sundry who wanna see what is, in reality, much ado about nothing as far as ruined temples go . In fact, thailand was already doing just that, before they got pissy and closed access to the temple complex from the thai side . The road that accesses Preah Vihear runs thru a national park up there in Sisaket Province and cars were charged to drive on it.

Instead all thailand does is repeatedly whine about the injustice of it all after the ICJ decided WAY BACK in 1962, by a vote of 9 to 3 that the temple belonged to Cambodia. Sheesh, that's FORTY EIGHT YEARS AGO !!!

FWIW: a country can and often does appeal a decision by the ICJ and I believe they are given 10 years to do so. Sadly in that time (now LONG expired) thailand didn't submit a single piece of paper or a shred of evidence to counter the decision.

Now they're objecting to a management plan of land already deemed to be INSIDE Cambodia without ever seeing the draft of the paperwork outlining the planned management. <deleted> is that about?

Cambodia is not presenting the plan until the WHC meeting so thailand has abso-tively posi-lutely NO frickin' clue what's even in it. I guess they just disagree to be disagreeable about it.

Sour grapes really.

FWIW: I was at the Asia Books on Sukhumvit (about Soi 17) this morning. No NOT the one in the Times Square Building, but the old townhouse type one across the street. They had the both sets of the "Learn Speak Thai" books there in a display dealy by the check out counter. They even had one of each book open and designated as "demonstration" so you could peruse them.

Sadly I never bothered to note the price or even pick up the book.

Guess I'm having a bit of the tod's today too. .. Hope it’s not catchy!!

I have been trying now for 2 months to sign up for Pro Language school in Times Square for their 20 lessons Thai course but have been let down twice now.

SNIP

I don't quite understand what "been trying for 2 months to sign up but have been let down" really means. I’m sure if you show up with money in your hand, they’ll find a way to accommodate you. ..

I know several people who are studying and have studied at Pro Language in the Times Square building. They seemed quite happy with the material and the methodology used for teaching thai to foreigners. I sat in on one of the beginner classes and thought it was pretty good "bang-4-the-baht" in terms of value.

I know they have classes going just about all the time. Sometimes if you do a group lesson (cheaper price than private) you hafta wait a week or two for them to get a group together to start the class. When you do private lessons they’re more flexible and will pretty much teach you when you want to be taught. Their price of 25K baht for 180 group lessons is right in line for the yearly deal most private thai language schools have to get you the ED visa.

I'm sure Pro will let you sit a free class or at least a free hour to scope it out. Call ‘em and see when they have a class you can sit in on.

Here’s their info:

Website;

www.prolanguage.co.th

Address;

10th Fl. Times Square Building 246 Sukhumvit Road

Bangkok, Thailand 10110

Phone;

Tel. 02-250-0072 (5 lines)

I just called them and they have a new beginner class starting tomorrow the 21st from 6:00 – 7:40PM

BTW: I am NOT affiliated with Pro Language, and offer my opinion ONLY.

It reminds me of an article I read a while back in the paper which cannot be named written by evidently a scholarly older thai, wise in the ways of language preservation who was lamenting the fact that the language was, in his scholarly opinion; 'devolving'.

He mentioned how the language was losing its cultural identity with the use of god forbid; imported words from america, and other countries . He also was overly critical about the extensive use of chat-speak where thai is abbreviated and often misspelled on porpoise <sic> to facilitate a faster method of communication via the internet.

His take on thai language was really sad, especially so if it is shared by any of the powers that be here.. At least to me, language of any country is a living thing which constantly evolves to meet the demands of the current generation using the language. I know of many things which have migrated into colloquial speech in the US which I've never even heard of (being 51 y/o ) and hafta look up online with in a contemporary slang dictionary.

While a static language may meet some cultural bar in terms of readability. IMHO, a language that doesnt evolve is one which is doomed to die a slow lingering death.

In keeping with the topic of this thread; Certainly a country which tries to do that would เสียหน้ามากเกินไป in the long run.

While my experience is related to securing a yearly extension of stay based on retirement not marriage. Mostly due to marriage extensions be a paperwork pain in the proverbial ass for me to do for people . It still shows that it’s at least, in theory, possible to use multiple accounts from banks in thailand to secure a yearly extension .

You’d need bank letters from BOTH banks, and passbooks updated on the day or very close to the day you try to secure your yearly extension of stay .

Here's the link to my response to another post:

Good luck and do post whether you were successful or not in your endeavor.

I agree with the poster known as RickBradford and his mini-dissertation on the how/why of thai or asian face. I also wholeheartedly agree with the premise that to not understand it is to not know asians. A clear understanding of the why they do things can make for a more enjoyable stay here in the long haul. The thais are mostly predictable in a given situation to a fault, due to their cultural indoctrination which starts at infancy and continues their entire lives. The concept of 'face' is at the forefront in their behavior.

Not being asian, and in fact being american, I totally ignore anything remotely to do with the concept of face as it pertains to me when dealing with the thais. I operate under the premise that I can neither gain nor lose face. If Im unhappy with service or goods, I want them to know about it in no uncertain terms. If something is offered to me that I dont want, Ill let em know the reason why I dont want it.

For the most part, foreigners simply by being foreign are exempt from a great many allegedly cultural things here which thais follow without question. These are things which I simply write off as thai oxymoronic cultural aberrations and discount out of hand as things I accept as theirs yet I don't participate in at all.

FWIW: Ive never had a thai when pressed for information or to rectify a problem NOT help me to the best of their ability. Neither have I perceived that they looked down on me (not that Id particularly care if they did) for acting foreign. I find the foreigners who act like a sheep-like sock-puppet in accepting what ever is supposed to be the status quo for a thai in a given situation a tiresome lot of wanna-b-thai pseudo-morphs.

Obviously this type of non-thai behavior comes with the caveat that you MUST know your audience. Overall, its my experience; thais can be pushed quite far in most situations. BUT!! As there is no line painted on the ground, pushing them past this invisible, yet very real, line can and often does result in a sudden display of violence which runs totally counter to the ever smiling, soft spoken ใจเย็น ๆ demeanor they are portrayed as possessing.

I think most foreigners read way tooo much into all thingz thai regarding their culture. I am never rude to the thais I deal with; but am curt, to the point and blunt in my communication with them. Then again, knowing well and good that Im not here to win a frickin popularity contest with these people has its advantages too .

I also agree with the last paragraph of the post by "RickBradford". The younger generation of thais has a much more loosely defined idea of hierarchy in their social groups especially in regards to forms of address, politeness in their interactions with one another and their conduct. Now whether this is a devolution or evolution of their culture, language or identity; well thats for more learned minds than mine to ponder and expound upon.

To the O/P's question about the correct words for lose face; other posters have listed the most popular forms of it in colloquial speech.

If he is under treatment at a hospital, ask the hospital if they have liaison with immigration. Most major private hospitals have and can take care of immigration for you.

I concur; most, if not all the higher end hospitals which cater to foreigners have at least a person or often an entire department which liaises with Thai Immigrations for medical extensions.

In fact, Bumrungrad Hospital which used to send all their paperwork to Changwattana for extensions now processes so many medical extensions of stay that one day a week an Immigrations Officer goes to the hospital to approve them.

Funny you should post this.

I recently had this exact situation come up when I accompanied a person to Changwattana to secure his yearly extension of stay based on retirement; he had two bank accounts.

One of them was at Kasikorn and the other one was at Siam Commercial. Neither account had sufficient funds to be used for meeting the financial requirements alone, but combined they exceeded the minimum by over 100K baht. As the money in both accounts was 'seasoned' the prescribed amount of time, he had both bank letters, his passbooks were updated and the amount in the letters and passbooks matched he didn't have any problem meeting the financial requirements.

FWIW: He didn't get even a single question from the Immigrations Officer, and basically sat there silently the whole time. It was smooth sailing.

Again, this was Changwattana, NOT some little fiefdom up-country in Nakhon Nowhere where their interpretation of the immigration laws often differs (markedly) from the real rule of law.

Depending on where you go, your mileage may indeed vary. ..

Tod, you might have spoken too soon as they have updated. .. ...

Point taken. ..

I stand humbly 'erected' due to my overzealous critique of the Learn Speak Thai material.

Perhaps putting a first person singular pronoun in FRONT of the two word sentence you used woulda helped her in understanding that you were referring to yourself.

Use either ผม (phohm^R) or ฉัน (chan^R) (To dispel the erroneous rumor that I happened to hear yesterday from a bunch of foreigners learning thai; YES!! Guys can and DO routinely use ฉัน when referring to themselves when talking to people they already know, WITHOUT it sounding gay in the least!!)

Also dont forget to use the ending particle for males; ครับ (khrap^H). It works as a 'trigger' for thais to know you're finished talking and it's their turn.

Something like this would be acceptable;

ผมชื่อไมค์ครับ; phohm^R cheuu^F mai^M khrap^H

FWIW: It's a tough sell getting thais to pronounce the name Mike with a hard 'k' sound on the end unless theyve got some experience with english names and words. Their language rules don't have anything like that, and that thai spelling I used is about as close as you're gonna get to it.

This has been a tough week for me too in the speaking thai department as well. Although my reading and typing are comin' along, the speaking is lagging a far distant third.

Most foreigners I’ve me here I wouldn’t piss on if they were on fire, unless I really had to piss badly . In other words I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them. Given the morbidly obese condition of so many foreigners, I doubt I could even pick them up, let alone throw them any distance . I’ve rarely met more miscreants, misfits, and undesirables of the foreign persuasion than here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” .

What do I really think about them (foreigners here)? Truth be told; I don’t even give ‘em a thought, walk past them without a glance and unless I am compelled to interact with them for something I need, I ignore them totally.

The fact that we share the extremely tenuous bond of being foreigners in thailand is not strong enough for me to go out of my way for anyone.

I suggest following the old US television show X-Files take on things; Trust NO one.

When I first moved here I brought several plastic pill bottles with 10's of thousands of US dollars rolled up inside them in my carry-on bag.

I was detained by US customs even though the cash declaration letter was filled out correctly and the cash matched the amount in letter to the cent. They questioned me quite extensively, and held me until my flight was boarding, before taking me in a motorized golf cart to the gate. Sad really.

When I got here; I had no problem entering thailand, and when I went to the 'things to declare' counter they waved me thru with only a glance at my paperwork, even though I had it written in thai that I was bringing in a pile of US money.

Here’s what the US cash declaration form looks like, although you’re comin’ from Canada so I guess what the US form looks like is a moot point.

Cash Declaration Form.pdf

FWIW; when I had an ED visa and tried to convert it to a Non-Immigrant Type O based on retirement the immigrations officer at Suan Plu told me I couldn't do it . I didn't believe him and went 'further up the food chain' , but was still told I couldn't do it inside the country.

I ended up going to Vientiane Lao PDR and obtaining a single entry Non-O visa based on retirement. Then when there was about a month left on it I went to Suan Plu and applied for the yearly extension of stay.

This topic came up a couple weeks ago on the forum. If it’s the same ad, it seems the people who have that website past the link on anyone’s facebook page with a thailand origin.

I talked to some goofball who answered the phone, and after the conversation think it’s totally sketchy as well as against the immigrations laws . They don’t even do business in Bangkok, but in another province at another immigrations office where he said ‘he had a connection’ . In fact he said he can't do it at Changwattana. That in and of itself set off warning bells.

It’s certainly NOT something I’d risk just to live here . ..

In all reality; if you don’t have 800K (25K US) in the bank for 3 months out of the year to secure a retirement extension, &lt;deleted&gt; are you doing living here in thailand ?

FWIW: I looked at the website, as I'd remembered hearing the mangled engrish 'Learn Speak Thai" before . I realized that when they first came out with the books some thai women were walking around hawking them at the Tops Market Food Court in the basement of Robinson's on Sukhumvit Soi 19. I also saw them at Emporium in the food court approaching any foreigner they could find.

I looked at both sets of books and thought they were total crap . The phonetics are written screwy , the color coding is off putting , and the books were obviously NOT proofread with and degree of accuracy, as I found mistakes on page after page . Maybe that was a first run and theyve since straightened it out, dunno.

Granted I didn't look closely at the speak Issan book (mostly because every one in this country can speak bangkokian thai) and I didn't feel the need to learn a cutesy dialect just to 'fit in' .

Despite the glowing testimonials from various and sundry foreigners posted on their web site; I wouldnt waste the 1574 baht for their special offer . I still feel Benjawan Becker's stuff is about as good as you're gonna get as far as a quality product .

As cheap as labor is here (with the official minimum wage in Bangkok at 192 baht per DAY) and with most places (especially small shops) not paying social security tax, the overall hourly or daily wage can be quite low, especially if it's on a commission or tips basis. It's no wonder small shops and even larger ones are so staff heavy .

I used to wonder why most service staff here seems to be so anti-customer service . Then I realized, if you ‘dumb yourself down’ to expecting nothing from ANY service staff here no matter where they work; every once in a while they (the staff) will meet or exceed expectations !

Factor in the extreme reticence these people seem to have in speaking engrish and you’ve got a perfect recipe for lackadaisical customer service.

Conversely, while they are still over staffed at more medium to upscale shops; I hate that they shadow your every move in hopes of a sale . (It's disconcerting having an ever smiling, yet diminutive thai following me around the shop as I browse ).

Yet another geo-political pundit on Thai Visa weighs in with their two สลึง's (sa^Lleung^R) worth of nonsense.

With all the experts in various fields who post here on T/V, it's amazing to me that the forum hasn't cured AIDS, solved world peace, world hunger or any of the other plethora of problems facing 'human beans' <sic>.

Given that the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is embroiled in a heated, often violent negotiation with Cambodia for a 4.6 square kilometer piece of economically worthless land bordering the World Heritage Site in Cambodia known as Preah Vihear, I doubt anyone would ever convince the thais to give up a single square centimeter of what they think is their land, either willingly or via 'gun-boat diplomacy'. These are some ultra nationalistic people who should not be underestimated in their rabid almost fanatical defense of what they think is rightfully theirs.

This country seems to have more border disputes with neighboring countries than even a semi-intelligent person might imagine. I really doubt theyve ever surveyed their land borders in the last 30 years (the fact that most of the shared borders are still heavily mined from previous conflicts doesnt make being a member of ANY survey team all that fun of a job ).

I also concur with a previous post, that drawing imaginary dotted lines on the ground inside a country; lines which only serve to accent the populaces' differences can and often is fraught with peril, or worse.

Total rubbish. .. ..

If you are talking about Preah Vihear that is VERY OLD NEWS .

Sadly for the thais it was decided LONG AGO that Cambodia was the rightful owner and had ALL rights to the temple grounds. In the years since, thailand has not offered up a single fact to back up their 'claim' to the land .

Yes thailand is still quibbling about 4.6 kilometers of bullshit ground . As in bullshit ground I mean; having been there and seen it (it's scrub that you couldn't raise a single cow, or in thailand; a single 'buffalo' on). Actually it's land perfectly suited for fighting over; as it holds neither strategic nor economic value (something you look for if you're gonna fight over nothing) .

The easy access to the temple ruins are thru thailand (who already charged foreigners, at least, a price to drive up the road because it is a 'national park', maybe it's free for thais who knows, but more importantly, who cares?) .

If the two countries could work together, maybe they could find a way to squeeze money outta the tourists who wanna see it. Who knows, not me... ??

Last time I checked, (which I do frequently ), NOTHING is free in this world . (Or, if it’s free it ain’t worth shit!! )

That the US started charging for something that was FREE before is no surprise.

If it is a surprise for you, I suggest you go back to America and check the price of coffee, sugar, eggs, beef, pork, chicken, ANYTHING .

Sadly, when you arrive back to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" you will kiss the ground, (even if you might catch a disease ).