Tod Daniels

So............ they nick you for a reentry permit on top of the TM7 <SNIP!!>

It goes without saying that an 'in-country' yearly extension of stay is only 1900baht, whilst the illustrious O-A multi entry visa (only available from your home country) is (per the thai embassy in L/A's website) $175.00 US!! (5600baht at 32 to the US dollar)

Factor in the 1900 for the extension here and another 3800 for a multi-re-entry permit and the difference is a whopping 100 BAHT.!! 5700 vs. 5600. .. Kinda splitting 'hares' <sic> , err hairs, here aren't we?

Plus with an in-country yearly extension of stay you don't hafta hop on back to your home country to secure another visa either . Although FWIW; I concede, you do get your 'second' year 'free' with just a border run before your O-A expires, so there is that advantage). But you still needed a reentry permit to keep your visa alive after the first year runs out should you decide to exit/re-enter the glorious "Land 'O Thais", it really becomes much ado about nothing.

So in retrospect; your comment "they" (as I imagine you mean thai immigrations) really don't 'nick' you for all that much, now do they?

did we have "Naa nuwer jai Sewer" หน้า เนื้อ ใจ เสื่อ, my personal favourite

Beautiful body, heart of Tiger (Beautiful but merciless)

Used to warn young Thai men about women who squeeze a house and car out of them and then dump them, on the wall at my local wat.

I alway think it's funny that certain Thai ladies have been playing this same game for centuries, it doesn't just happen to foreigners.

on Thai2English I got หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ literally translated (by Thai2English) as naa (face/front/top) neua (flesh/body) jai (heart/spirit/mind) seua (tiger) with 'wolf in sheeps clothing' as the meaning. Not sure I understand the 'naa neua' part, rhymes nicely of course, but i don't understand the use of the words, the sentiment, as sarahsbloke points out, is universal

p.s. I disregarded the 'meat/beef' option for the word เนื้อ

I didn't know for quite a while that the term หน้าเนื้อ is a 'compound word/phrase', which doesn't carry the meaning of either of its component words but has a different meaning entirely. (This is not actually all that uncommon in thai word compounds as there are many words you can't break down and glean the real meaning in thai by its base components. )

Yes it is composed of the word หน้า; face, front, going forward, etc, and เนื้อ; meat, contents, flesh, song lyrics, etc, BUT when used together they carry the meaning of "hospitable- and generous-looking (like a timid deer)". I think that is because the RID lists หน้าเนื้อ as ชื่อสัตว์ป่าประเภทกวาง อีเก้ง เป็นต้น; the name of a wild animal of the type deer; the barking deer (muntjac) for example.

Hence the term หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ is roughly "face like a timid deer; heart like a tiger". In engrish it could be called like thai-language lists it: "full of courtesy, full of craft", or as thai-2-engrish lists it as "a wolf in sheep's clothing". Both fit the meant meaning of the idiom. I also believe หน้าเนื้อ could be along the same idiom in the US “doe-eyed”, or a “big eyed, beautiful girl”.

Still any way you interpret it, it’s a good idiom and one which EVERY thai knows the meaning of. It’s even in a famous song done by the two thai superstars, เบิรต์ ธงไชย(Bird Thongchai) and เสก โลโซ (Sek Loso) called อมพระมาพูด (Even if you sucked on a buddha amulet when you speak, I couldn’t believe you)

FWIW: Here’s the song;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRLYG2HOURM

This song actually has some fairly accurate engrish subtitles too, so hats off to the translator (which wasn’t me!!). Notice how they chose the idiom “wolf in sheep’s clothing” as the engrish idiom for หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ . Also listen at the end when they repeat the words อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ because they also throw in อมวัดมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ (even if you sucked on an entire wat when you spoke I couldn't believe you).

FWIW: อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ has become another famous thai idiom meaning a person who is totally unbelievable.

And here’re the thai lyrics;

อมพระมาพูด - เสก โลโซ - เบิรต์ ธงไชย

เธอเดินมาหาทำหน้าเศร้า

เธอบอกว่าเราไปกันไม่ได้

เธอบอกว่าฉันดีเกินไป สำหรับเธอ

คำพูดเธอนั้นมันง่ายดี

ยังโน้นยังนี้ทำหน้าตา

ทำเหมือนว่าฉันเป็นผักปลาไม่ใช่คน

แสร้งทำเป็นดี

บอกไม่มี ไม่มีใครใหม่

อยากจะพักหัวใจ

ไม่อยากมีใครมาพัวพัน

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ

ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้

ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน

เคยนับบ้างไหม

ถึงแม้ว่าฉันยังรักอยู่

ใครใครก็รู้ก็ดูออก

แต่จะไม่ยอมให้เธอหลอกอีกต่อไป

พรุ่งนี้จะขอไปให้ไกล

ไม่อยากเจอใครที่ใจดำ

จะไม่เชื่อคนที่น้ำคำจำใส่ใจ

แสร้งทำเป็นดี

บอกไม่มี ไม่มีใครใหม่

อยากจะพักหัวใจ

ไม่อยากมีใครมาพัวพัน

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ

ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้

ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน

เคยนับบ้างไหม

แสร้งทำเป็นดี

บอกไม่มีไม่มีใครใหม่

อยากจะพักหัวใจ

ไม่อยากมีใครมาพัวพัน

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ

ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้

ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน

เคยนับบ้างไหม

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ

ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้

ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน

เคยนับบ้างไหม

เคยนับบ้างไหม

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

อมวัดมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

ไม่เชื่อ ไม่เชื่อ ไม่เชื่อ ไม่เชื่อ

Enjoy

FWIW; more thais than you can shake a proverbial stick at (as well as hordes of foreigners who marry thai nationals get married at; บางรัก (Bang-Rak). Especially as it has the thai word for 'love' (รัก) in it . It is trouble free to 'get hitched' there, as they deal with plenty of foreigners every day.

As an aside, the place in bangkok when thais want to go get divorced is; บางจาก (Bang-Jak), as it has the thai word for 'apart or depart from' (จาก) in its name. ..

And don’t confuse the ‘dog-n-pony show’ that is a traditional thai wedding with ANYTHING which is legally binding . You can register the marriage at ANY Amphur and BANG, you’re married. Conversely, you can have a thai traditional wedding, and you’re ahead nothing, except showing the village what a rich foreigner you are and giving ‘face’ to your soon to be extended thai family..

Here's one from the volume 2 of excellent Speak Thai book and DVD series:

Wan pra my mee hin deeo (sorry can't show the tones):

Buddist holy days no have time single

Meaning: Buddist holy days don't occur only once: This is akin to our english saying 'Every dog has his day'.

<SNIPPED>

Could it not also mean something like 'holy days are not only on that single occasion'? ie; don't just treat the holy days as holy but be mindful of them every day? or, every day is a holy day?

Every dog has his day, to me, means even someone who is treated like a dog will, one day, have the tables turned

Wan Pra mai mee hun dieow Day (for) Buddha (do) not have occasion single?

I've heard the idiom วันพระไม่มีหนเดียว many times in my travels thru-out the glorious "Land 'O Thais". Especially in conversations with older or what I call; 'career monx' , when the conversation veers into territory concerning the state of the thais today.

It is much less prevalent with the young guys who I call 'wanna-b-monx', or 'poser-monx' . You know the kind, they're the ones whose family makes a HUGE deal out of their son becoming a monk for a coupla weeks/months (only to have him 'wash out and sneaks back home in the middle of the nite).

I think the meaning of this idiom is far closer to the poster known as 'bifftastic' than what 'charlie10' is alluding too. I also believe the site thai-language has the meaning wrong as well, saying it means ‘tomorrow is another day’, but that's just my opinion based on how I've interpreted it in conversations with older thaiz.

I'm not to say that the up-country thais don't pay attention to the moon or go to the temple often. It is my experience that most everyone goes at least twice a month (at least to get the 'winning' lottery numbers from a monk .)

I just think that in this instance; I took this saying to mean, (and yes I am adding context to the very ambiguous 5 word idiom): "Just because it's NOT a buddhist holiday, doesn't mean you can forget the precepts all good buddhists should follow in their lives."

It's similar to the derogatory idiom in the US; 'a Christmas/Easter Christian', or someone who is religious on religious holidays and when it's not a holiday their beliefs take a back seat in their lives. Like saying; 'Don't just be a Christmas/Easter Christian. ..."

Like I said, I could be wrong, and I'm sure an email to Benjawan Becker would probably shed more light on it; as she has a fantastic support staff.

Still for the most part I've found idioms all over the world which mean nearly the same thing no matter the language of origin. I think they are all somehow 'interlinked' in the human psyche based on experiences every human goes thru; and similar to things like the 'great flood myth', etc.

Good thread though, quite interesting. ..

While I am NOT known for my posting etiquette, I want everyone to know that I love my Mom. Happy Mother’s Day to all!!!

Here is a song by (of course. ..) เสก โลโซ (Sek Loso) called แม่ (mom).

The song live is here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSpCJ-2jNlI

The lyrics are here;

ป่านนี้ จะเป็นอย่างไร จากมาไกล แสนนาน

คิดถึง คิดถึงบ้าน จากมาตั้งนาน เมื่อไรจะได้กลับ

แม่จ๋า แม่รู้บ้างไหม ว่าดวงใจ ดวงนี้เป็นห่วง

จากลูกน้อย ที่แม่ห่วงหวง อยู่เมืองหลวง ศิวิไลซ์ ไกลบ้านเรา

คิดถึงแม่ขึ้นมา น้ำตามันก็ไหล อยากกลับไป ซบลงที่ตรงตักแม่

ในอ้อมกอด รักจริง ที่เที่ยงแท้ ในอกแม่ สุขเกินใคร

อีกไม่นาน ลูกจะกลับไป หอบดวงใจ เจ็บช้ำเกินทน

เก็บเรื่องราว วุ่นวายสับสน ใจที่วกวน ของคนในเมืองกรุง

คิดถึงแม่ขึ้นมา น้ำตามันก็ไหล อยากกลับไป ซบลงที่ตรงตักแม่

ในอ้อมกอด รักจริง ที่เที่ยงแท้ ในอกแม่ สุขเกินใคร

อีกไม่นาน ลูกจะกลับไป หอบดวงใจ เจ็บช้ำเกินทน

เก็บเรื่องราว วุ่นวายสับสน กับบางคน ที่ใจไม่แน่นอน

ลืมเรื่องบางคน ไปซบลงที่ตรงตักแม่

P/S; I am sorry I make the thai font large, I can't read it if I don't.

As an aside; I can't listen to this song without having tears run down my face.

Again, Happy Mother's Day to all of you..

Are you sure that isn’t the engrish word “pundit” just back translated into thai, from what ever language it originally came from?

FWIW: I have some ป.๔-๖ text books teaching thai, but the material is not of interest to me, so it makes for a very hard slog..

I prefer to read things that I already know the subject, and can guess the story line, but in and of itself; that is self defeating, as I will never progress.

Perhaps that is why I am stuck at the level of reading that I seem to be stuck on .

As an aside; I have seen thais outside my gate struggling to decipher the daily thai newspapers, and it seems more like a group effort rather than one person can read it and understand everything..

Then again, I may be around stupid thais. I dunno .

What I DO know is that they can read thai better than I can, for sure. ..

To the poser <sic> , poster known as “jayboy”:

FWIW; my definition of a “solicitor” and yours may differ by quite a bit.

In fact, in America there is NO such thing as a ‘solicitor’, seeing as it’s an engrish term. Either you’re a lawyer, and passed the bar exam in your state or you didn’t. .. Quite different ‘bars’ to jump over, doncha think “jayboy” ?

My advice is; “Deal with it or take it to your grave.. ..”

A solicitor who is a “London Lawyer” (or even an American Lawyer) carries NO weight here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”, unless that person’s thaied <sic> , I meant ‘tied’ into a “Thai” (run and owned 51%) Law Firm.

My post was NOT a B/S post, except that it cast doubt on your original assertions , which; as a know it all ‘20+ year foreigner’ here, who only deals with “high level thai firms” or what ever you want to call ‘em, you are the obvious “expert in residence”.

Again, we will all bow down when you pass by, and tug our forelock too !!

Is that good enough for you; especially after hi-jacking this topic SOO far off the O/P’s original thread?

And lest we forget the original topic of the thread; it was about how could a foreigner, who is a lawyer, secure employment here in thailand? What it wasn’t about, was this pissing match between know it all foreigners. ..

This is why SOOOOO many threads here get ‘de-railed’ and no one is the wiser . ..

I wish I had the finances to enroll in Chula's courses, although Ramkhamhaeng is a good value too!

When I went in person there (to Chula) and spoke 'engrish' only, I was less than impressed by my reception from the staff . At Ramkhamhaeng it was nearly 100% different, they spoke English, and didn't act like I was a bother to their gossiping or what ever they were doing before I walked in, but at Chula I was most definitely perceived as a hindrance to their daily routine.

And before you ask, NO; I don't "dress for success". I wear Levi jeans and a KISS t-shirt every frickin' day, (deal with it or die)! It is my feeling that if you can't see past my frickin' clothes to gauge the kind of person I 'might' be, &lt;deleted&gt; YOU! ! As well as the "whore you rode last nite" <sic> I meant the "horse you rode in on". Sorry, sometimes I get confused here.

Who knows; I may have MILLIONS of baht squirreled away, but wear what I am comfortable with. Like they say, "Never judge a book by its cover", I guess the thais at Chula haven't heard or learned that yet. ..

FWIW: I can read fairly well, I can type thai on a keyboard fast and clearly, but my writing looks like someone just learning to write, and sadly my spoken thai is: well pretty horrific unless you already know my accent.

I wish Chula would let people sit their programs for free, for a coupla hours, so people (read; foreigners) could see what quality of classes they teach. When I asked if I could sit in on a class; they told me NO!

Anyway you slice it; I came away with the feeling that 'Chula' was more a 'status' than anything like a school which offered any reasonable 'bang-4-the-baht'.

Not to mention outside of S/E Asia, going to Chulalongkorn University or in thai aจุฬาลงกรณ์มหาวิทยาลัย (the ONLY uni IN thailand which reverses the frickin words) doesn't carry any weight AT ALL!!!!

BTW: I do agree 100%; that a motivated group of like-minded students will make learning the thai language far easier.

AND, one more BTW: I dont wear ANY color shirt except a black KISS tee-shirt!!

Well I have had over 20 years in business here <SNIP>

Henceforth we will all bow to your infinite wisdom in only dealing with "top commercial firms", and that you have abso-tively, posi-lutely NO experience with as you so succinctly put it; "small time foreign lawyers". ..

BUT, this begs the question;

Have you ever had a foreign lawyer (NOT Law Firm) represent you in a thai court of law about ANYTHING??

I doubt it.

There are only thais in thai courts; except maybe the thai/engrish translator or the foreign 'advisor' (who may or may not be a lawyer) which talks to you.

Contract law, arbitration, litigation, etc, yes foreigner lawyers a plenty; but they are "whores of different color" <sic> , sorry; "HORSES of different color". Sorry for the typo. ..

I have been to MANY thai court proceedings and other than acting as 'advisors', I've never seen a foreign attorney ever, as in NOT a single time, address a thai judge.

And now, without further ado, back to the pissing match already in progress. We are sorry to have interrupted your broadcast. ..

Hey, I didn’t mean to “piss on Chula’s parade” by any means. (GOOO Chula )

I just pointed out it's an intensive and an expensive course structure. In fact if we peruse the link you provided; we can clearly see these facts.

They appear to offer 9 levels of thai, (three each of the Beginner, Intermediate & Advanced categories).

It seems if someone wanted to attend school there for a year the next batch of courses will start October 4th 2010 and after attending all 9 levels would finish October 25th 2011. Now with each course costing 25,000 baht; to attend all 9 courses would be a whopping 225,000 baht!!

Also with each course being 100 hours; the person would hafta attend 900 hours worth of thai language classes in a year. To qualify for an Education Visa in thailand the Ministry of Education’s posted minimum level of attendance is about 4 hours a week (in reality it’s 16 hours a month).

Last time I checked, in the US; a year’s worth of full time 40 hour a week employment without overtime equals 2080 hours. Any way you slice it 900 hours is quite a piece of 2080 hours, and quite a large time investment right outta the proverbial gate to learn the thai language.

I’m not in any way saying that after 900 hours of in class time (plus the time it’d take to do homework, review etc out of class) that the student wouldn’t come away with a great grasp of thai. In fact if they did all the classes I’d hope to God they came away with far more than what passes for spoken thai by most foreigners here.

I was only pointing out there are FAR less costly, as well as less intensive methods, which may or may not yield similar results in the long go.

I’ve met all to many foreigners who enrolled in the ‘standard promotion’ being run by MANY private thai language schools where you go 20 days for 3 hours a day in what they call intensive classes. I’ve seen person after person wash out that type of class, because the pace at which the thai was taught far exceeded the rate the student could absorb and retain the language. They came away more discouraged than ever to undertake thai, and that is totally sad in my book.

I only think the O/P should spend some time looking around FIRST, rather than be all fired up on one school’s or one uni’s thai language program.

There certainly is no shortage of private or public thai language programs out there at a variety of price points.

Have no idea how you received a 30 day entry on an education visa however.

That part confused me too...

It is my experience, a single entry Non-Immigrant Type-ED Visa ALWAYS receives a 90 day 'permitted to stay' stamp.

Sadly for the O/P there aren't too many other options (in fact I believe there are none) .

I think the O/P'll hafta re-start the entire process again with the proper documentation from the school and a trip to a neighboring country's thai embassy/consulate to secure another Single Entry Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa.

Sorry about that. ...

Here is a very small excerpt from a book by แอนดรูว์ บิ๊กส์ (Andrew Biggs) titled วิธีพูดภาษาอังกฤษเหมือนฝรั่ง (Methods To Speak English Like A Foreigner)

I am posting this as a reading exercise so other more learned posters can report back and tell me about what ‘level’ being able to read at this proficiency might equate to.

กฎข้อที่ ๒ Rule Number Two

PLEASE MAKE MISTAKES!

(ขอร้อง... พูดผิดเหอะ)

“หนูอยากพูดภาษาอังกฤษ แต่หนูไม่กล้า หนูหลัวจะพูดผิด”

ประโยคนี้ฟังแล้วคุ้นๆ ใช่ไหมครับ ทุกๆ วันผมจะได้รับจดหมายจากนักเรียนมากมาย และบัณฑิตซึ่งยังสนใจภาษาอังกฤษอยู่ แล้วคุณทราบไหมครับว่า ผู้ที่ส่งจดหมายถึงผมมักจะเขียนถึงประเด็นอะไรบ้าง มันคือประโยคแรกในหน้ามี่ไงครับ

เท่าที่ผมเดาได้ ประมาณ 80% ของผู้เขียนจดหมายถึงผม พูดประโยคนี้ไม่ว่าจะเป็นในรูปแบบใดก็ตาม เขามักเขียนทำนองนี้ครับ พออ่านแล้วช่วยกรุณาถามตัวเองด้วยว่าแย่ในกลุ่มประเภทนี้ดัวยหรือเปล่า

“หนูรู้ศัพท์ภาษาอังกฤษพอสมควร รู้เรื่องไวยากรณ์บ้าง แต่หนูไม่กล้าพูดภาษาอังกฤษ นั่นเป็นเพราะหนูกลัวจะพูดผิด กลัวสิ่งที่จะพูดออกเสียงไม่ถูก ใช้ tense ไม่ถูก หรือไม่ก็ผิดกาลเทศะ

คงสรุปย่อหน้านี้ได้อย่างนี้เลยครับ “หนูกลัวที่พูดผิด”

โอเคครับ ผมยอมรับว่าคุณรู้สึกอย่างนี้ และเข้าใจครับว่าภาษาอังกฤษไม่ใช่ภาษาแม่ของคุณ และดัวยความเคารพออย่างสูง ผมอยากจะถามคุณแค่ว่า

“ถ้าหากว่าคุณพูดผิด อะไรจะเกดขึ้นครับ”

ถามจริง ผมอยากให้คุณไปหาปากกา และกระดาษเปล่าๆ มาเดี๋ยวนี้ และจดคำตอบลงว่า ถ้าพูดผิดแล้วจะเกิดอะไรขึ้น ทำสิครับ เขียน อาจใช้เวลาคิดก่อนได้ สมมุติว่าคุณใช้กริยาช่องที่ 2 แทนช่องที่ 3 จะเกิดอะไรขึ้น สมมุติว่าใช้ Good แทน Happy หรือว่าออกเสียง Kitchen (ห้องครัว) ว่าเป็น Chicken (ไก่) อะไรจะเกิดขึ้น ขนนาดที่ย่ำแย่จนทำให้กล้าอ้าปากพูดภาษาอังกฤษครับ

ไม่ต้องเขียนคำตอบแล้ว หมดเวลา มา... ผมจะเฉลยให้

คำตอบคือ...

ไม่มีอะไร

ไม่มีอะไรทั้งสิ้น

ศูนย์ครับ

ZERO

ในโลกแห่งความเป็นจริงแล้ว ไม่มีอะไรย่ำแย่เกิดขึ้น หากคุณพูดภาษาอังกฤษไม่ถูกต้อง โลกจะไม่แตก น้ำไม่ท่วม ไฟไม่ไหม้ แผ่นดินไม่ไหว สรุปว่าถึงพูดผิด ทุกสิ่งทุกอย่างที่อยู่รอบตัวคุณก็ยังอยู่สภาพปกติ

...ดังนั้นคุณกลัวพูดผิดทำไม่???

Even though I got the gist of this small piece, because I didn't know the meaning of the following words, some of the nuances were lost on me;

คุ้น ๆ - familiar with

บัณฑิต - ?? skillful? <- dunno about this one

ประเด็น - point of contention, topic, issue

กาลเทศะ - occasion, time and place, situation

สรุป - summarize

เคารพ - respect for, esteem for, regard for

ย่ำแย่ - unbearable, beyond toleration

เฉลย - disclose, respond, answer

I believe this book is written more at the ภาษาพื้น ๆ level or in a really informal format due to Andrew’s target audience young-adults.

Any and all feedback is welcome, and FWIW; the book is an interesting read.

It relates so many parallels between what thais go thru to learn english and what foreigners must go thru to learn the thai language.

Thanx

This web-link to "thai-language dot com" should answer your question(s) better than I ever could. It's also a useful site to boot !

http://www.thai-language.com/id/134003

FWIW; I don't thing กำ (gam^m) on it's own is a stand alone verb. I've only heard it used when it means "a handful of something". But I could be wrong.

Certainly to learn the thai language a person needn't enroll in a 'real university' by any stretch of the imagination.

There are more than enough private thai language schools scattered hither and yon across the country to meet your needs. One’s who are registered with the Ministry of Education and can; for a year’s tuition fee, provide you with the documentation you need to secure a Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa at a thai embassy or consulate.

My advice to you is; seeing as tourist visas are free at the moment, secure a double entry one from the thai embassy of your choice BEFORE you arrive. That would give you almost 6 months inside the country factoring in the 30 day extension(s), and the border run to activate the second entry.

Even though Chiang Mai's thai language course is reputed to be quite good, there are some conflicting reports about it. I'd caution you NOT to pay up front for something you haven't witnessed first hand to gauge what your 'bang-4-the-baht' will be.

Chula does have a VERY intensive, as well as a VERY EXPENSIVE thai course. One that if you're not 100% dedicated to doing, you'll wash out of early on. Plus I think they only run the course term by term, and have no year long program, (but I could be wrong) Ramkhamhaeng University also has quite an intensive and far cheaper cost-wise thai language program as well. I have met people who were attending Chula's course, but I didn't notice they were particularly any better or worse at thai than people I've met who went to any other school. Except for the fact the illustrious Chula students' could 'beat the drum' and say they were going to Chula .

I think in your situation touring a few private language schools or "real uni's" AFTER you arrive is the prudent way to go.

FWIW there're more than a few quality private schools in Chiang Mai, too, if that's where you're wantin' to live. Google it, email them, and then come scope ‘em out, take their free lesson, etc, before you part with your hard earned baht.

There is NO gun to your head to enroll before you show up, so take your time. Don’t forget the old adage; “Act in haste, repent at leisure” . The last thing you need is to have pre-paid for a year's schooling only to find out either the school's material or teaching methodology doesn’t ‘click’ with the way you learn (different people learn differently). With 'after sales customer service' on the low end of the priority scale here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", once you pay you're in for the long haul, possibly being stuck for a year with something your unhappy with.

You might even put a post in the Chiang Mai Sub-Forum here on T/V and ask about private thai language schools just to see what responses you get.

Good Luck. ..

As an aside; I’d personally give a pass to any ‘culturally’ related thai language course, until you really have a good grasp of the thai language firmly and securely ‘under your belt’.

I’ve sat all too many ‘thai culture’ classes and found them to be myopic in their views, mundane in their material, and more a ‘brain-washing’ type of class than anything remotely like learning. Most are geared towards excusing some of the things I call ‘aberrant thai behavior’, by labeling it a ‘cultural norm’. I have found ZERO bang-4- the-baht, as far as any measurable value in terms of language acquisition in classes with this format.

As you pointed out, a person can do a 90 day reporting either 7 days EARLY or 7 days LATE without penalty at Changwattana.

There'd be no problem applying for your extension on the 15th and doing your 90 day reporting at the same time as it's just within the week early dealy. BUT as you also pointed out IF there's a hiccup in the extension of stay process you've cut it really close time-wise to get things sorted out. I'd give it a try, especially as this isn't your "first rodeo" with an extension of stay based on retirement.

FWIW: When I accompanied an acquaintance out to Changwattana last week to secure another year's extension of stay based on retirement I tried to see if they'd also accept his 90 day reporting form early, just to save him time and effort.

Even though most everyone in the reporting room knows me (as I usually turn in between 5 and 15 different peoples 90-day reports a month), they told me no and to just come back when it due. In this case his wasn't due for another 3 weeks.

I think the smaller immigrations offices are more flexible on this just because they're smaller and the volume of people they deal with isn't any where near the level that's dealt with in Bangkok. They are usually staffed by only a few people, and everything is done in the same office rather than the decentralized areas which Changwattana has for different visa related things.

Berkshire...yeah, you got me, I'm not really in Afghanistan, I'm a 18 year old kid sitting on a computer in Iowa. Oh, and I don't "go around threatening people with personal harm." <SNIPPED>

Ohh looky. .. Another 40 post 4 day member whose morphed into the 'expert in residence' on "all-thingz-thai". In addition to promising what would happen IF someone dared to cast a disparaging eye at his thai sweetie. .

Where was that 'ignore button' again? Oh that's right, no one can read this, as I am ignored by all, and now only post for my amusement.

I personally don't give two shits where another foreigner met his thai significant other, also known as his; 'thai-in-tow'. As long as they don't solicit my opinion about her we're good. Although all too many foreigners seem to do this, much to their consternation when I actually give my opinion rather than parrot out a pat answer. My advice is; have balls big enough to 'walk the walk' whoever you happen to pick to 'walk the walk' with.

Who a person picks to spend their life with is SOOO far down my list of even semi-important things that it doesn't even make the top 100. You wanna have a bangkok born-'n-bred, white-skinned, hi-so, uni-educated, thai-nese (for the very thick, that's thai-chinese), man knock yourself out. It's the same if you wanna have a dark skinned, 4th grade dropout, rice farmer's daughter from Nakhon Nowhere for your a significant thai other. Those are choices YOU must live with, not me, my posting pals.

And FWIW: I'm NOT sitting on a couch in Any-town USA posting my two satang's worth of info; but in my office here in Bangkok. Thanx for askin' though. ..

As an aside to the poster known as "Judia" (who posted a nearly incomprehensible rant on the first page), which I will include here for your perusing pleasure;

Who give a FXXX about what Thai people like us think. But IF you look at Thai people They have evil intention event tho you think they good THEY NOT THAI PEOPLE ARE NOT I'm Thai and I think Riping White people off And sell stuff high price is consider UNFAIR! soo Whatever U guys Farang or whatever u are do you should think of US Thai Worse that you guy..when you come to Thailand of course

Keep up with those "engrish as a second language" classes; they'll start to pay off eventually. ..

One last thing to the poster known as "StreetCowboy", my armband appears to be broken as it doesn't seem to work like it did when I first got it shortly after I arrived here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". . Is there a warranty on these things?

Yet another well thought out and insightful post. .. NOT

This time by a poser <sic>, err poster whose been a member since 2004 and whose got over 1800 frickin’ posts!! Yet in all that time hasn’t updated their profile from the ‘not telling’ answers which default. .. Pathetic really. ..

I thought trolls were mostly of the newbie persuasion.

Ugh. .. Sometimes the mind wobbles at the sheer madness posted on here

I concur with a previous poster; in my time here I've never ever seen two thais engaged in french kissing.

The O/P would do well to heed the old american commercial about breath freshening gum which had the tag line; "You don't know when your breath smells bad BUT EVERYONE ELSE DOES"..

Your ‘friend’ would do well to heed the poster known as “SoftWater” and his sage advice. I concur, there’s no 15 day crash course where she’s gonna go in cold and come out having anything more than the ability to parrot the same stuff foreigner’s parrot in thai after attending a 15 day ‘survival thai’ course. “How are you?” “I am fine thank you and you?”, “Where do you come from?” “Do you like thai food?” Etc, etc. ..

Certainly, she can provide your ‘friend’ with the name of the school, and he could correspond with them, and wire transfer the money directly to their account if he decided to go that oh-so expensive as well as ludicrous route.

In looking at the website of very well known engrish language school here in Bangkok called Wall Street Institute of English (whose website is here; http://www.wallstreet.in.th/en/index.asp). It would seem, (as I just called them and checked) that she could enroll in SIX months worth of classes (which she could attend EVERY DAY) based on their “Way-stage level method” for about 11K baht a month or 63,900 baht all in. Certainly that’d provide more bang-4-the-baht. All I did was call ‘em and ask how much they charged for a ‘6 month unlimited membership’.

And FWIW; that school ain’t cheap by any stretch of the imagination. Although having toured several of their branches they do seem to have a good program and seem serious in their efforts to impart engrish to the thais attending.

I agree with another poster who advocates AUA, they're very well known, reasonably priced and offer a quality program as well.

Sadly the story from your friend sounds just like what it seems on the surface; a fanciful story designed to extract maximum baht from your ‘friend’ in a minimum amount of time.

Then again, your ‘friend’ is unlikely to believe this because after all “she’s different”. He would do well to take off his ‘rose colored glasses’ and realize early on, that all things wild and wonderful here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” are NOT what they appear to be on the surface.

The rampant nationalism stirred up inside thailand by Cambodia's attempt to submit a management plan to the WHC on the Temple Complex known as Preah Vihear is nothing but a smoke screen to move scrutiny away from the woefully lacking results the government has had in dealing with internal problems plaguing the thais as a whole.

The views stirred up by this 'much ado-about-nothing' knows NO color boundaries, that I am aware of.

I routinely sit outside my apartment with thais who wear; yellow shirts, red shirts, navy blue shirts, and the ever popular multi-color shirts. These are middle class working thais with wives, kids, cars, and good paying jobs. We sit in a group, talk about politics, the weather, various 'n sundry work related problems and really just about anything that comes up.

These thais are all of differing political persuasions; yet in my chats with them, they are, to a person, totally united against Cambodia over Preah Vihear. That few, if any of them, could actually find it on a map, or really have any grasp of what the dispute is about doesn't seem to dissuade them in their nationalistic views that somehow Cambodia is trying to 'steal' sovereign thai land.

This entire debacle is about a 4.6 sq kilometer piece of economically unviable land called in the press the 'disputed territory'. Land which I might add; in the intervening 48 years since the ICJ decided the temple was IN Cambodia, has NEVER EVER been demarcated, not even a single square meter by the illustriously named 'duffers' who run the "Joint Demarcation Committee".

I think stirring up thais against their 'neighbors' is nothing new and a quick perusal of the not too distant past thai history will show this tactic can work as an effective tool in easing 'internal tensions'. Especially once all the thais are focused on 'outsiders' for a change rather than each other.

To even allude to the fact that there is any behind the scenes power brokering going on between Hun Sen and T/S over this broken down b/s temple complex is ludicrous. It could NEVER EVER become another cash-cow like Angkor is to Cambodia. It also shows you’ve not ever seen it, nor understand the underlying issues concerning it. Google it for christ sakes, it's not that great. Certainly, even inside thailand, you could find far better examples of ruined Khmer temples.

Again, this entire brouhaha is NOT about the temple but JUST about the 4.6 square kilometers of "disputed territories" which wasn't in the 1962 ICJ's decision. A decision which ONLY addressed in whose country the temple complex itself was located in.

What’s very short-sighted is; the easy and quick access to the temple complex is from the thai side using a thai road which runs thru the national park in Sisaket Province. The slog to get to it from the Cambodian side is a tough row to hoe indeed. Yet thailand in their infinite wisdom decided to CLOSE the road and thereby lose the income which they were making by charging people an entry fee into the national park to use the road. This also deprived many thais, who had small shops and what not scattered along the road, of a viable income source as now you can't cross from the thai side. No access, equals NO tourists and that equals NO income. ..

So again, the thai government shot themselves in the foot financially rather than seeing a bigger picture (a picture which could benefit the thais in that area), and finally getting over the 48 year old 'sour grapes' attitude that thailand has had since the ICJ's decision. I find it sad the government decided to take the nationalistic 'moral high road' rather than moving forward in a way which might actually benefit both countries' people who live in that general area on whatever side of the border.

Way to go; AMAZING Thailand!!!

I think the biggest thing the article pointed out was that this problem is NOT endemic to just the thai language but languages as a whole. ANY language has to be viewed as a living entity which changes over time by the needs placed on it by society, rather than remain stagnant to die a slow death because it is outmoded and useless in todays rapidly evolving world stage.

One only needs to read postings on any of the popular thai chat websites to see that the language is evolving into something the older thais cringe at. The purposeful misspellings, the use of slang, the use of abbreviations, are all tools which facilitate faster communication between people. They are most certainly NOT impediments to them learning how to speak or write real thai.

This also doesn't mean the younger thais using this vernacular are any more or less fluent when they are compelled to actually speak or write 'real' thai; only that they've modified the language to suit their particular needs at a given time.

I find the old school academics who lament the 'death of the traditional thai language', to be dinosaurs, and very out of touch with the 'real world' that thailand now belongs to.

FWIW: I firmly believe its NOT a feather in the cap of thailand that they can read thai which was written many hundred years ago. I view it more as an impediment which has stifled thai language development for ages, thus giving rise to the very fast evolution happening now.

A person would be hard pressed to read english as it was written several hundred years ago, and yet I see no proof that the english language is dying or has even been compromised in any great way.

Languages are tools to communication and for thai language purists to pound a drum over one that is stagnant, doesnt evolve, or remains constant makes very little sense. Then again, perhaps I am looking for logic in the thai language purists views, where none exists in the first place..

I hate to disagree with the illustrious poser <sic> err, poster known as "Tafia". ..

BUT.

There is NO frickin' way a simple 90 reporting is gonna garner ANY undo attention AT ALL. In fact, 90 day reporting doesn't even require the ‘reportee’ to show up in person . People show up every day at Changwattana with multiple passports to submit the documentation for the 90 day dealy.

Last time I was at Changwattana, I had FIVE different passports from FIVE different people who were due to check in for their 90 days and none of those passports were mine. It is routinely a service carried out by 'runners' for various companies, missionary workers, etc, and I do believe there nothing but scaremonger going on about the 90 day reporting issue, which to me is really a 'non-issue' .

They just aren’t gonna wanna talk to either you or your wife over a simple 90 day report, that is NOT their job, they do 90 day reporting, not visa enforcement, different office, different officials altogether. As an aside; in filing perhaps well over a HUNDRED 90 day reports for various foreigners; I’ve never ever been asked a single question by the officials at Changwattana, even on the days I had a fistful of passports in my hand when I showed up out there.

Sadly the same cannot be said for the yearly extension of stay the O/P received . Also, no matter how high up the proverbial 'food chain' your 'friend' went to secure this extension, if it comes down to a problem, it's gonna be on you and you alone. You'll find your 'friend' and his 'high placed contact' evaporating into thin air and will be left to your own devices.

I also disagree that those on yearly extensions of stay based on marriage to a thai national are subject to any more scrutiny as in visits, conversations with relatives or the village head-man than anyone else ONCE the yearly extension of stay is granted (which would seem to be the case in the O/P's situation).

It is also up to the immigrations official if they give you the 30 day 'under-consideration' stamp or the yearly extension out of the gate. Some posters are correct, yes, usually during that 'under-consideration' period someone does show up to scope out the veracity of the marriage. BUT again the O/P already has a YEARLY extension of stay, so any visits, are a non-issue, especially if I read his post correctly, he's moved from the province where he secured the initial extension.

Given the wide disparity with which the new 'zone specific' immigrations offices operate, it comes down to how they (the officers at the office in your zone) interpret the rules.

FWIW: Changwattana runs pretty close to the actual rules considering foreigners, the extensions of stay and/or the visas they are trying to secure here in Bangkok. The same cannot be said for the various and sundry other immigrations offices scattered around the country.

Definitely keep a low profile, as in DON'T run amuck until you get the visa dealy sorted out.

BUT, by all means go do your 90 day reporting as you don't need an extra 2000baht fine for failing to do so.

I think the reason they took some time with the first 90 days you did at Changwattana was that you got your yearly extension in another 'zone', and are usually required to report to that 'zone' (unless you've moved).

Give it a try, and let us know, but despite what your 'friend' said; definitely come up with some game plan to get the visa problem sorted out. It's far more of a volatile situation that a simple 90 day reporting.

I find it quite interesting that all the rhetoric and rampant nationalism is ONLY directed at countering the Cambodian Management Plan of the WHS Preah Vihear Temple Complex.

NONE, as in not a single sentence or word has been directed toward getting the “Joint Demarcation Committee “off their proverbial asses and actually figuring out where the frickin’ border really is out there.

In fact I doubt they’ve demarcated a square meter of land since 1962 when the temple was deemed to be FIRMLY inside Cambodia. No matter how much the thais wanna whine about the injustice of it all, that decision is OLD NEWS.. Yet again, rather than figuring out a way to capitalize financially on the access to the temple complex, which is FAR easier to get to from the thai side than the Cambodian one, thailand has decided in their infinite wisdom to close the thai access, thereby hurting ANY thais who happened to have businesses on the road leading to the temple. Smart move, way to go .

It’s a typical smoke and mirrors political tactic, turning peoples’ attention away from the problems INSIDE the country which plague everyone . It is far easier to call on the blind and very rabid nationalist views which ALL thais share against any other bordering country rather than actually address today’s problems inside the country.

Pathetic, really pathetic.

Send him packing makes all faranges look bad.

OMG, what incredibly insightful "wordz-'o-wisdom" (NOT !!). ..

Being enrolled in a 'real university' as opposed to a private school does seem to carry more weight with the officials out at Changwattana. Having sat there all too many hours and watched people file thru, I can say; the foreigners I've seen with documentation from Chula, Thammasat, Mahidol, and even the open-u Ramkhamhaeng are subject to much less scrutiny than private schools what ever subject they're teaching (thai language, engrish, underwater basket weaving, etc).

I do wholeheartedly agree with other posters in saying 3 frickin' weeks is pushing the envelope quite a bit . Especially if as you say he secures a YEARLY extension of stay each time he re-applies. I would imagine, if he doesn't leave the glorious "Land 'O Thais" regularly, he still has reason to open his passport at least every 3 months when he goes and does his 90 day reporting for not leaving. Any excuse he may give could fall on deaf ears depending on how pissy they want to be with him .

Immigrations is totally within their rights in charging him the over stay of 500 baht per day (so 3 weeks is 10,500 baht and counting), compelling him to purchase a '7 day emergency extension of stay', as well as telling him to go get another Non-Immigrant Type-ED Visa at a neighboring country's thai embassy or consulate. Just as they are within their rights to charge him the overstay fee, and then issue his next yearly extension. It's their call and they DO have the latitude to interpret how they will enforce their rules on this. ..

If he is indeed enrolled in a 'real uni', I'd see if he couldn't take someone from their visa department with him to facilitate the sorting out of his problem. It'd be well worth what ever he'd hafta pay them, just to see if it could be resolved in-country.

Anyway, once this person does resolve it, do post back here and let us know.

DON'T confuse the 90 day reporting you do with the type of visa extension you have.

The people in the 90 day reporting area out at Changwattana have NOTHING to do with the issuance or canceling of ANY visa extension. They simply note down that you have stayed in country longer than 90 days.

Now, it doesnt appear that you bought your VISA illegally, as you used paperwork to secure it at a thai embassy out of the country. What does seem apparent though, is that you acquired your yearly extension of stay through less than 'official channels'. It would seem from your post, that it is NOT the extension you need to be on, (especially NOT being married to a thai national).

The Immigrations computers are STILL in the process of being all linked together, but theyve been saying its gonna happen in a few weeks for MANY YEARS now. I wouldn't sweat the 'small stuff'. By you simply checking in for 90 days, it is highly unlikely to raise any warning flags.

However, I also concur with other posters sage advice, and think you should exit the country, thereby canceling this visa extension (unless you've got a multi-entry) and secure another type of visa to stay here. With tourist visas being free at the moment a double entry one from Vientiane Lao would give you nearly 6 months here (factoring in, in-country extensions and a border run to activate the second entry).

As an aside; the fall back excuse you use of; "I'm probably not the first one", holds very little water here indeed. Especially when faced with an immigrations officer scrutinizing your visa, seeing you're here on the wrong type, and taking what ever actions they deem necessary. I'd go get another visa type ASAP.

I still believe, simply doing your 90 day reporting is highly unlikely to ruffle any feathers out at immigrations or call undo attention to yourself; (BUT your mileage may vary). If you're really paranoid, mail in your 90 day reporting application and the relevant copies of your passport and see what you get back. I'd wager it'll fly whether you go in person or mail it in, but again, it's your life which would be impacted if things don't work out, so 'buyer beware'. ..

Just about ANY S/E Asian country is a pretty sure deal for tourist visa, and Australia is still a viable source for a Multi Entry Non-Immigrant Type O visa for the reason of visiting friends.

You are between a rock and a very hard place, and I wouldnt go down the extreme path of passport destruction or anything else illegal just because of your particular situation; Id just go get another type of visa.

I find it strange after plowing thru this entire thread (and the pissing match between members on whose got a bigger cock, which seems to have ensued ) that the illustrious O/P would even CARE what another foreigner is doing here, who he chooses to spend time with (or NOT), or where he chose to live here in the glorious Land O Thais.

I have far more thai friends than foreign ones, yet I live in Bangkok, smack dab between two of the most well-known (yet unsavory) nefarious nite life areas in the city, BTW which foreigners flock to. Yet which I haven't cared to even walk past in a coon's age (idiomatic expression ONLY , and totally devoid of racial slurs; meaning a raccoons age )!!

This is in the same vein as a foreigner who I dont know from 'Somchai', asking me what I think of their (in)significant thai other. An 'other', who more times than not, turns out to be a 5th grade drop-out, rice farmer's daughter, from Nakhon Nowhere. Now why the &lt;deleted&gt; they would look to me for approval on something like that, is totally beyond my comprehension. Is their self confidence or powers of basic deductive reasoning so low, they hafta seek out the opinions of other foreigners, simply based on the fact both are foreign?

Now, as the topic did veer earlier into marmoset territory, this is still slightly on-topic. Today I saw a foreigner wearing possibly the worst 'rug' (for the thick; a bad toupee) in my life!! I swear it looked as if there were possibly an entire family of pygmy marmosets precariously perched on his head. FWIW; evidently the rug's fastening mechanism had malfunctioned as it was being worn cockeyed to boot!! Factor in what hair he did have, was grey and poking out along the bottom of the clearly orange-ish colored rug, and it was truly a sight to behold. Be that as it may, I try to take things like this in stride here, and didn't give him a second glance once I discerned they weren't really marmosets.

This topic also reminds me of the 'other breed' of foreigners who are so tightly insulated into their little foreign group that they never venture out except when in, flocks, herds, gaggles, packs, scurries or murders. Some have never ventured further up the Sukhumvit than either the Phrompong or Siam BTS stations, yet are viewed as the experts in residence concerning all-thingz-thai by their equally well insulated and often-times equally clueless piers <sic>, I mean peers.

What makes me really sad is; I wasted the time to read the entire thread AND still felt the need to respond to it.

As an aside to the poser <sic> , err poster, known as StreetCowboy, last time I checked Thonburi is about as far from the boondocks as you could get; with it still being a suburb of metropolitan Bangkok and all. Check a map first, post second, or by all means, feel free to hesitate to post.

AND NOW BACK TO THE PISSING MATCH ALREADY IN PROGRESS.