Tod Daniels

FWIW: I Googled the info provided in this thread and found the site straight away.

I've tried to call the number about 10 times over the last few days since this thread started. Either no one answers or the number is on ‘call back service’.

I couldn’t find the address of their "offices in Bangkok" listed on any page of their site either.

I would classify this as ‘highly suspect’, but will keep trying to call them. I just sent them an email now to see if I get a response. I'll letcha know.

I also ask if anyone actually gets to talk to them to post the info so we know what’s what.

Still, it sounds kinda sketchy to me, but stranger things than this happen here all the time so who really knows?

FWIW the thai consulate in Hull is far and away one of the most 'user friendly' thai consulates in the frickin' world. It blows ALL the consulates in the US and Canada away as far as ease of use, and friendly staff.

I'd call Hull tell 'em you're planning on enrolling in a thai language school, and see if they'll give you a single entry Non Immigrant Type ED visa based solely on your intention of enrolling in a school when you hit thailand. That’d be good for 90 days once you enter.

The worst they can say is no. Which if they did, you could simply apply for and receive without problem a One year, Multi entry, Non Immigrant, Type O visa for the purpose of visiting friends in thailand. While as another poster pointed out, you would hafta ‘run for the border’ every 90 days, that type of visa is good for almost 15 months in the kingdom if you work it right. (Plus Chiang Mai has a plethora of visa run services which lug you to the Burma border and back in less than a day.)

I'm sure the single entry Non-O type ED visa is cheaper than the year long multi entry, and the 90 days should give you enough time to enroll in school, and have them provide the documentation so you can extend your visa another 90 days in country.

I disagree wholeheartedly with the poster known as “Colabamumbai”;

I’d NEVER EVER pay a single baht sight unseen to ANY thai language school in this country BEFORE having sat a free class or looked at their methodology in teaching thai to foreigners. After sales customer service/satisfaction is nearly non existent here and if you pay for a school whose method sucks, you’re out plain and simple.

Give Hull a call, they are flexible in their interpretation of the visa rules, and you’re likely to get the single entry Non-Immigrant Type ED visa just with a letter of intent to study. They are NOT like consulates in the US or Canada as far as sticklers to the letter of the visa laws, but more open to your intent once you get here.

Conversely, unless I am mistaken tourist visas are still 'free' so apply for one of them in the worst case. Hull is also very fast as far as turn around for visas too.

I used the attached sheet when I learned to read the thai alphabet (consonants).

I never bothered to learn the corresponding words to the letters, like G is for Chicken (ก ไก่) K is for Egg (ข ไข่), K is for Bottle (ฃ ขวด), etc . I just learned when I saw a specific letter it made a certain sound as an initial consonant and another sound as a final consonant. (Example; there are SIX letters which make a T (or Th) sound in thai: ฐ,ฑ,ฒ,ท,ธ,ถ when they start a word and the ending or final sound is a D)

Sadly, early on, I paid no attention to whether it was high, middle or low class consonant. Consequently I can't discern the tones with any degree of accuracy (that's my next mission). I can however get pretty close to the way a compound word sounds just by having memorized that chart and knowing vowel length. Certainly close enough for a thai to make out what I'm trying to say and correct me.

Here's the consonant chart.

Thai Consonant Sounds Initial-Ending.doc

I routinely pass the same ‘group’ or ‘team’ of street beggars every day on my sojourns in and out of my small soi. I ALWAYS acknowledge them and say hello but never give them money. To a person they all seem okay with this, often times saying hello to me before I’ve even noticed them sitting on the sidewalk.

One nite I was walking home, (more than a little drunk ). As I passed one of the beggars I’d seen every day for 4+ years, he called me over. Being under the influence and not understanding exactly, I was hesitant to stop, until he motioned me back. However, upon returning to where he was sitting he only pointed to my pocket where the 15K baht I’d just taken out of the ATM was about to fall out. He said in thai, “I’m just looking out for you.”

I was so taken aback, that I tipped him 500 baht for him noticing I was gonna drop my money. To his great credit, he took 4 of the 100 baht notes and stuck them back in my pocket, saying, “100 was more than enough”. That I would receive this type of behavior from a guy missing a leg along with half his arm, who sits begging on the street every frickin’ day for as long as I’d been here just blew me away.

Sadly, he was hit by a taxi and killed just a few weeks later, but it’s something I’ll never ever forget.

Note to the poster known as 'bkkjames'. .. I did my best to keep this succinct and to the point. .

And of course the correct answer is

You don't talk about sex or acknowledge it even exists with anyone, only bar girls and guys that hang with them do that (and maybe other lowlife).

Again 'sarahsbloke' the self appointed resident expert weighs in with his 2 satang worth of misguided information...

While I routinely use sweeping generalities and paint with a very broad brush (to cover ground quickly); I too must agree to disagree with that poster's skewed take on "all thingz thai" concerning talk of a sexual nature amongst close friends.

Slightly Off Topic but of marginal value none the less:

Once you get to know a particular group of thai guys (whatever their position on the socio-economic ladder of success and/or demographic), and they accept you ‘into the fold' so to speak; the conversation can and does ALMOST always touch upon sex at some point.

The guys I’ve sat with nearly every nite for the last 3 years are ALL what I would term "middle class working stiffs". They're married, educated, in their late 30's to mid 40's; have great jobs with international companies, and their salaries are comparable to what you'd get in the west for similar work. They have free family health insurance, paid sick, vacation and holiday leave, bonus and incentive programs, life insurance, etc. They own their own homes, cars, moto-cys etc. Again, any way you figure it they're about as far from a low-life person as I could imagine. In fact they've got better jobs than many foreigners I know who live here.

Once I got to know them, these guys are some of the most down to earth people I've ever come to know ANYWHERE I’ve lived. Yet time and again when we sit outside and drink at nite, the talk invariably touches on sex, sexual jokes, double entendres with sexual connotations, speculation about this or that couples sexual penchants, frequency of intercourse, efficacy of viagra, penis size, a particular person's sexual history, etc.

Some of the most hysterical conversations (to the point that we all had tears running down our faces in laughter and could barely catch our breath) have come up when I sit out side my apartment on the Soi and interact with those guys.

Remember; this is in an ultra-casual social setting, NOT at the office, at the restaurant, in a food court, etc, but sitting outside drinking whilst they wait for traffic to abate so they can make their way home after work. I think familiarity of the group you’re with AND the social setting you’re in play a very important role in what is acceptable to discuss and what is not; much more so than broad brush labeling that any talk of a sexual nature makes a person a 'low life'. ..

I've found if you spend time trying to make friends with thai guys, in your neighborhood, or ones you see every day, etc, your 'bang for the baht' and enjoyment of 'all thingz thai' can does go up immeasurably.

Once they know you, thai guys are definitely a hoot to sit with and IMHO they are far more interesting than sitting with thai gurls.

Tod, do you have a bullet point version of that mate? 

Sadly no ‘bkkjames’. . My overly verbose style of posting is just too hard wired into my psyche.

As is evidenced by a quick perusal of my posting penchants, I rarely make short posts, do bullet points or write a “Reader’s Digest” version.

I guess you could wait for the movie to come out and watch it.

Then again there is the “ignore user’ feature if my bloviation becomes too tedious for you to read.

Sorry man, I’ll just hafta try harder.

The mindless nonsense some posters spew out is just over the top sometimes. How did a thread about what you call the ‘cigarette police’ turn into a pissing match about politics and the plethora of shirt colors the differing factions wear? Sheesh, get a frickin’ grip will you?

The guys who you refer to as 'cigarette police', are employees of BMA (Bangkok Metropolitan Authority, the people who run Bangkok) and are city code inspectors/enforcers, for cleanliness. They are immediately differentiated from police by the fact they don't carry firearms. In thai they're called เทศกิจ (for those who live here yet can't read thai, the karaoke engrish is like this; 'thet-sa-gid').

They routinely apprehend the all too many tourists who litter whilst making their way down the Sukhumvit. FWIW their little headquarters is just in front of Sukhumvit Plaza (Little Korea) near Soi 12 next to the Tourism Authority of Thailand's info booth. They're the exact same group of guys working there since I've lived in this area (nearly 5 years now). The area they enforce is from just in front of Times Square down to Soi 8, and then another groups area starts.

They have a laminated sheet which outlines in engrish the various fines for discarding garbage, cigarette butts, (even spitting and/or blowing your nose) on the ground. The fine for dropping something on the sidewalk is posted at 2000baht, and if you slyly decide to drop waste into the sewer drains that carries a HIGHER penalty (up to 5000 baht).

As an aside, there are garbage receptacles at the mouth of Soi 12 in front of the 7/11, in the old Leader Price shopping area, at Times Square and just inside Little Korea Town too. There's also one right on the top steps of Bangkok Bank just after Chuwit park, so really I don't see any reason to litter. There are signs stuck on poles in several places between Soi 12 and Chuwit Park in ENGLISH and THAI which state it is illegal to litter and you can face a fine of 2000 baht or more. (If you don’t believe the veracity of my statements I’ll go out and snap some mobile pix this afternoon)

I've also seen them stop moto-taxi guys who are using the sidewalk instead of the road and fine them too when the mood strikes them. I think the guy they work with is the key cutter who sits just behind the bus stop before Bangkok Bank, as he's got one of their walkie-talkies sitting on his table.

In all honesty, they're nice guys who just happen to have the bull-shit job of apprehending foreigners who litter. I've shared a drink with them many times after their shift was over and they were waiting for traffic to die down before heading home. I've also sat next to their booth for a couple hours just shooting the shit with them and watched them apprehend and fine more people than I care to count. From my observations they write receipts for the people they fine, and if you just talk to them politely the fine can and often does go down precipitously, sometimes to a couple hundred baht or even a 'stern warning' if you're really polite. However, if you even start copping the slightest attitude with them, raise your voice or act in any way disrespectful, you're in for the max fine as they don't take that shit off foreigners AT ALL. If the truth were to be told and I was in their shoes; I wouldn't take any attitude from a tourist either.

Possibly the reason they don't target thais is that few if ANY thais are gonna have a spare 2000 baht in their pockets to cough up for being stupid and littering. Then again, even a semi-sensible person might argue, that this being the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”, if the thais wanna let other thais litter, well I guess it's their country to do so in, just as it's their country to enforce the city's anti-littering code as they see fit.

Don't like it, don't frickin' litter. Sheesh, have some cheese with your whine. Oh the terrible injustice of it all. .. ...

You did give me a good idea though, and when I go out this afternoon, I'm gonna ask them if they offer a commission if I spot littering foreigners for them. I've got nothing to do and wouldn't mind doin' my part and maybe make a few baht to boot. ..

So, tod-daniels, do you know Southerners? All the Southerners I know pronounce their r's rather clearly and do tend to roll them. But perhaps they are just being pretentious wannabe hi so islanders.

Truth be told I was taking a jab at the newest thai language pundit known as "phomsanuk" and the post they made about thais blurring r's and l's in colloquial speech.

While off topic, to answer your question; Nope, dunno a single southern thai. In fact; not being able to swim, anything even remotely 'beachy' or 'islandy' here is of less than zero value to me. I never spent any time down there, nor have the hankering to do so. With that being said, I'll just hafta take your word that southern thais distinctly roll their r's when the speak. It does carry anecdotal value, especially seeing as I don't live in and amongst them.

Regional accents of these people (thais) speaking the only government approved version of thai aka; 'central thai' or 'bangkokian thai' are not uncommon in fact they are all too common, just like regional accents of americans in the US, or brits in the UK.

Nearly every thai I know can; after hearing another thai speak central thai, guess with a pretty high degree of accuracy as to where that particular person came from before making the 'trek to the big smoke' to work in bangkok.

I was relating my personal observations and experiences ONLY. That they are dissimilar from yours negates neither of our observations. They're just different.

Perhaps I paint with too broad a brush, but in my world, things are either black or white; and using a broad brush I can cover a lot of ground quickly.

I stand humbly erected errr , I mean ‘corrected’ in my over generalization of the thais who engage in noticeable r rolling, which I think might also be called 'trilling'.

The dead givaway is the use of L in words rather than the rolling R

Yet another thai language pundit weighs in on all thingz thai. With as many ‘experts’ on the thai language as this forum has I wonder why I don’t hear more foreigners actually speaking clear, coherent thai instead of '2-word-tourist-thai’, ‘horse-peak’, or that hideous mix of 'baby-talk-engrish-thai' which seems so prevalent.

The only time I hear distinct r-rolling in normal thai speech is;

*overly pretentious newscasters

*wanna-b-hi-so thai kids acting better than they are

*goof-ball foreigners who think they speak thai better than they really do.

Even at Immigrations, the police stations, MFA, etc; when dealing with the officials there, the slight blurring of r’s and l’s is more than evident.

One the street this type of pretentious over pronunciation and/or rolling your r’s will get the thais you interact with to roll their eyes and think you’re too full of yourself for your own good. Especially if the rest of your thai is marginally pronounced.

I totally concur with the poster known as "mikenyork" in his observations about rolling your r's.

I stumbled across a really good book about 7-8 months ago. I'd actually seen it in Kinokuniya, B2S, Asia bookstores but avoided even looking inside it simply because of the title.

It's called; “Everyday Thai For Beginners” by Wiworn Kesavatana-Dohrs. It goes over thai language structure, situational vocabulary, and has a c/d with exercises, drills, etc.

It's one of my favorite as far as understanding how thai sentences are structured. I'll include an example of the way the book lays out the thai language structure using the thai words ทั้ง.....และ (both...and).

1. ทั้ง.....และ (both...and)

To say, "I like both Thai food and Chinese food," or "Both my mom and dad work here" use ทั้ง.....และ in the patterns below.

S + V + ทั้ง + Object 1 + และ + Object 2

ทั้ง + Subject 1 + และ + Subject 2 + Verb Phrase

ฉันชอบทั้งอาหารไทยและอาหารจีน I like both Thai food and Chinese food.

ทั้งพ่อและแม่ทำงานที่นี่ Both my mom and dad work here.

When the subject is established, one can use ทั้งสอง instead of ทั้ง.....และ.

คุณชอบอาหารไทยหรืออาหารจีน Do you like Thai (food) or Chinese food?

ฉันชอบทั้งสอง I like them both.

พ่อแม่คุณทำงานที่ไหน Where do your parents work?

ทั้งสองทำงานที่นี่ Both work here.

While the explanations are in english as far as how the pattern works, as well as the english translations off all the sentence examples; ALL thai examples are written in thai only with NO karaoke or transliteration.

Sadly if you can't read thai, you're pretty much SOL with this book. However with that being said, even a beginning level thai reader can get something out of this book, especially if coupled with a private thai tutor or significant thai other who has the patience to go over it with you.

I still think for maximum 'bang-4-the-baht' the Benjawan Becker books w-c/d's are hard to beat.

Mia/Pua is usually used by working class Thais and lo-so, not exclusive to bar girls.

I always use Panrayaa/Samee as I consider myself very hi-so, the Thais around me understand but don't use the words themselves.

White people (being rich and well educated) should always use the hi-so words.

The above bits of insight into the thai language come from a poster who advocates forgoing the tones and speaking thai in a monotone. The same poster who then wonders why thai even a thai food vendor has a problem understanding his tone-less thai. .. OMMFG, another thai language pundit is spawned, errr, or is that spurned?

BACK ON TOPIC:

I concur with other posters who say it is the choice of vocabulary a foreigner uses which gives away where they learned their thai; be it a thai language school or from rent-2-own, time-share gurlz and the areas they are known to frequent.

I also find it mildly amusing that a foreigner with only a marginal grasp of bangkokian thai would insert cutesy 'Issan thai' words into their speech to endear them to whoever they're speaking to. As the thais say; 'That's SOOOOO Lao". and FWIW that term is NOT a compliment.

A thai is never gonna look down on a foreigner for speaking polite middle of the road thai, but may if you spout off low-end impolite or overly familiar thai to someone not in your immediate circle of close friends. This is where foreigners go off the script, thinking everyone speaks the same level or degree of politeness in their spoken thai.

People who are close friends will use a much more familiar or intimate thai than people who've just met for the first time in a social setting and still sussing out where everyone stands on the proverbial socio-economic ladder of success. Once that is discerned thru innocuous and often times seemingly meaningless conversation they will fall into the superior-subordinate roles based on age, earning parity, education, etc which is the standard with which thais gauge each other due to the 'thai culture' being a much more class based one.

I can usually tell after listening to a foreigner speak thai if they had any schooling, learned from the streets, or from their (in)significant thai other. It’s not that difficult and you only need listen to someone speaking a few sentences which aren’t frozen phrases to figure it out. While I certainly speak foreign accented thai, I would never ever speak overly familiar thai to someone I didn't know quite well already.

Forgive me for my naive question; I am not a teacher or linguist.

David; for someone who professes to be neither a teacher nor a ‘cunning-linguist’ ; you certainly give some of the best advice concerning the acquisition of the thai language on this forum.

I would imagine that 500 well composed, yet succinct, sentences for different situations would far and away be better than 500 stand alone words. Words which as you pointed out may or may not yield the desired meaning if thai language rules are not employed in sentence formulation.

Given the fact that many of the sentences will have similar constructs with only some word variation; IMHO only makes adopting this type of 'situational thai' approach more advantageous.

Great idea.

All it says after you log in is;

“This system is just the advance reserve queue. The approval is based on documents showing that the filing date.” (that’s an exact quote of the engrish wording, so the last sentence is more than a little obscure ).

I guess once you go thru it you get a queue number which supersedes the numbering system at Changwattana, or there's possibly a separate desk.

Once you log in, you have the choice(s) of a re-entry permit, changing the type of visa stamp you have, or applying for an extension of stay.

The user manual is worthless as tits on a proverbial bull , as it doesn't say what you're supposed to do or what happens AFTER you fill in the online application for the previously mentioned three choices.

I'm skeptical that the system is even up and running as the map they show you after you log in is still the OLD Suan Plu location.

I'd have a thai speaker call the Changwattana hotline and ask the info desk if its working. If I remember I’ll call tomorrow, but if you find out do let people here know what the real story is concerning it.

FWIW: Here's the user manual to their online system

Online Immigrations User Manual.pdf

The Benjawan Poomsan Becker books with the c/d's are a bit dry, but will give you a good working vocab and more importantly an idea of thai sentence structure (which is NOT english sentence structure).

Once you get thru the first two books, Beginners, and Intermediate, you should have a sufficient grasp of high frequency thai vocab words, and thai sentence structure to begin formulating sentences you think up, rather than parroting out frozen phrases (which are extremely useful but limiting). You could also do her “Speak Like A Thai” series which are pretty good as well.

As far as phonemic transcription of the 500 top thai words using english. That's a tough row to hoe, and I'd still say learning to read even basic thai will go further than recognizing a thai word written in engrish.

You're correct; the newspapers are a hard slog for an intermediate reader ONLY because there are so many ministries of this-that-and-the-other, as well as way too many politicians who have mile long thai names to boot. Add in the use of abbreviations for the plethora of political parties, idioms, etc and you can spend a long time deciphering an article.

However, even a person who has high-beginner to low-intermediate reading skills can read ANY gossip rag out there about thai superstars, cartoons, small books, signs, menus, etc. It is far and away more valuable to read thai than karaoke engrish thai.

Perhaps making cards, with both the thai spelling of a word AND the phonemic transcription would work for you. BUT given the large number of karaoke engrish thai methods that are out there, unless you pick one, say Benjawan's method, learned all the obscure character representations for the sounds/tones etc and stuck with that one only, you'd be running yourself in circles.

Reading is nothing more than word memorization, so when you see it, you know its meaning in your native language as well as a close approximation of how it sounds in thai.

IMHO, Teaching yourself, or using your significant other to learn to read is a very valuable skill set and will take you much further than learning karaoke engrish thai.

You didn't happen to take a LOT of acid as in Lysergic acid diethylamide, when you were (as in STILL are) a kid, did you?

You're story reads like a slow motion train wreck. You want to look away, but you just can't. ..

Lemme know in 5 years, (after you can speak more than '2-word-tourist-thai' or ‘horse-peak-thai’).

Keep posting,; your posts are at the LEAST entertaining, (even if they seem to make no sense). Don't let that hold you back. ..

The first thing you must remember outta the gate is; DON’T GET DISCOURAGED.

Secondly is; remember WHERE you're attending thai language classes coupled with the methodology they use at that particular school or with that particular private teacher can and DOES play a GREAT role in whether you're absorbing any of the words, or if you’re just parroting out stuff that has no meaning to you.

Different people learn differently and a method I might enjoy, might suck for you and vice versa. Try as MANY different schools' free lessons or free classes as you can BEFORE you enroll and pay your tuition. There is nothing more discouraging than having paid a year's tuition to a thai language school which you feel doesn't give you any ‘bang-4-the baht’ . If a method doesn't hold your interest, you're just not gonna absorb the material the same way as one which is interesting and entertaining.

I do concur with some of the things the poster known as 'mikenyork' mentioned about thais when trying to understand foreigners speaking thai. They over praise anyone who speaks thai to the n-th degree, no matter how mangled it sounds. Just discount it out of hand, as underserved praise. DON'T take it to heart, they (the thais) will give you accolades for the most f*cked up thai ever spoken. Just blow it off.

However with that being said, I've had thais correct a slight mispronunciation with a thai word, even though they knew exactly what I was trying to say.

Sometimes I think the country is populated by 63+ million thai language pundits, instead of a majority of 6th grade drop outs like it is in reality. FWIW, if I can understand a thai person's engrish, I NEVER EVER correct it, as it's simply not my job to teach them engrish. Just as I do I not believe is it their job to teach me correct thai pronunciation (keeping the 6th grade drop out rule in effect). .. Sorry, but if I wanted to learn engrish I wouldn’t go to Nakhon Nowhere, America and learn from ‘hicks’ or ‘hillbillies’. ..

I would concentrate on HIGH FREQUENCY 'frozen phrases'. Things that are said here over and over, in question/response type of situations. Get these down so they're 100% understandable, and then build on your vocabulary. Some of the best schools’ lessons I've attended are what I would call ‘situational’ conversation classes; at the airport, restaurant, post office, in a taxi, when you're lost, at the doctors office, etc.

Usually the lessons are preceded with vocabulary which is specific to that situation. These are invaluable to learning just how this language goes together. While it is a Subject-Verb-Object structured language, you hafta remember that adjectives, adverbs, words added for emphasis, and time markers come AFTER the verb or noun. Add into the mix the oh-so-many thai classifiers which are used for multiples of a noun, and you can and DO get discouraged.

This is a wicked hard language (and were I to pick again, I wouldn't EVER pick thai as a second language undertaking).

Sadly there is no magic pill you can take, no perfect method you can study, no book you can buy and suddenly 'get' thai. It takes time, time, and more time coupled with stick-to-it-tive-ness to not get discouraged, and early on it is all too easy to feel overwhelmed. Don't give up, stick to it, stick with it, and it will come.

I am now where near the sharpest tool in the 'proverbial' shed, but if I can learn to read, type and almost speak thai , anyone can.

DON’T GIVE UP!!!!

Due to my proclivity for treading a little too close to the line in some of my posts (also known as ‘thai-bashing’ ) and after several extended holidays too boot ; I try to normally avoid these types of done-2-death threads.

However, sometimes they're like driving past terrible car accidents ; you don't want to look, but you can't help yourself, and hafta sneak a peek at the carnage as you pass by .

That you would ask on an anonymous internet forum for advice and then not value what ever comments you got, either good or bad, might be indicative that perhaps you're not as in touch with the 'real' thailand as you imagine yourself to be. Sadly, visiting many times a year isn't by any stretch of the imagination anything like actually living here, in and amongst these people day to day.

I know people who've come here 4-6 times a year for 20+ years yet are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to anything remotely linked to the every mysterious, and often mind wobbling thing known as thai-culture. Other than spouting canned rhetoric of what they heard, thought they heard or were told, they have no clue. That the thais seem to use this “cultural shield” in wildly aberrant, selective and often arbitrary ways, much like they do their buddhist up bringing (when it suits their needs at the time) doesn’t help the process of understanding from a foreign viewpoint either.

My personal experience is; I have yet to meet a thai man whose paid sin-sod for a previously married or 'second hand' wife, where the wife's family got to keep a single baht after the dog-&-pony show which makes up a thai traditional wedding. It was ONLY displayed for show and returned to the groom IMMEDIATELY after the ceremony concluded. Long before the rampant drink-fest started; which is also a key component of the dog-&-pony show thai wedding.

With that being said;

You would do well to heed the sage advice of the poster known as 'cdnvic' and the one known as 'anonymouse' (about the pinned thread about the all-too-often brought up topic of sin-sod). In fact, here’s the link to it: Sin Sod - An Explanation - Thailand Forum I think other posters opinions who advocate some cultural middle ground are also on the mark.

Good luck, you've got more than enough advice to make at least a semi-educated decision on the matter.

NOTE TO MODZ: if even this post is too close to the line, feel free to delete it at your discretion, and I will do my best to rein in my errant posting penchants.

Isn’t there another word; เลิก (leerk^F)? As in when you have stopped or finished with something and there is little likelihood you'll restart or have no desire to return to it.

Examples when you break up with someone; เลิกกันแล้ว, or when you give up smoking or drinking; เลิกดื่มเหล้าแล้ว, เลิกสูบบุหรี่แล้ว. .. I could be mistaken but I think the last word 'already; แล้ว is only a time marker indicating that you quit whatever in the past and that now, in the present, you've still stopped.

If indeed this is another valid word for stop, quit, cease, etc, gives us;

จบ

เสร็จ

หยุด

หมด

เลิก

I am dubious about the word พอ carrying any inherent meaning as in finished, complete, stop, etc. I've always thought it meant 'sufficient', or 'enough' the examples used in a previous post reflect that usage and meaning as well. Translated roughly as 'enough', 'not enough'; both for monetary and in the instance of a waiter pouring wine.

When i started teaching.....

And do you use the same moniker in class Mr. Tod?

Sorry "Johpa", you gotta read those posts a little closer before using the ‘fast reply’ button . You've confused me with a post made by "Murf" which I quoted in the body of my response.

BTW, I DON'T teach.

FWIW; my real name is spelled Todd, but in thailand every frickin' thai pronounced it as Toddy . I finally dropped one of the d's from the engrish spelling and ALWAYS use the thai spelling ท้อด (which is a thai word that has NO meaning other than the engrish name; Tod or Todd) . Surprisingly it's about as close to how my name is pronounced in american engrish as I'm likely to get without using a word which has another meaning .

Just an FYI; My name is NOT spelled like;

ถอด; remove, take off, nor like ทอด; deep-fried, nor even like ตด; fart, and not even like ตอด; bite, nibble or peck at, but either ท้อด or if I wanna act hi-so and/or persnickety; ท้อดด์.

But thanx for askin' anyway. .. ....

In response to another post where someone says spelling the thai nickname เปิ้ล (the last syllable of the engrish word apple) as Ple is by some wild stretch of the imagination stylish. .. All I can say is

If you didn't know, how would you ever work out how to pronounce "Ple" which is a pretty common girls nickname?

When i started teaching i called a girl "Ple" as in the beginning of the word PLEasure and she laughed at me.

If a Thai person who is learning English thinks that "Ple" transcribes as เปิน (Pern i would write it, but i guess it would be written Pun by a Thai(or not)) then it's better for them to stop learning now.

Just call your self "Apple" darling...

That was one of the most overused and all too often heard thai nicknames out there. Thankfully it is on the way out with cutesy nicknames like Benz and Bank taking over

However, unless I'm mistaken, the name is question is nothing more than the last syllable of the engrish word APPLE, but spelled and pronounced with thai rules like this; แอปเปิ้ล. Even Thai Language dot come has เปิ้ล listed as "Apple" (diminutive) [Thai nickname]. Although why she spelled it as Ple is a total mystery and shows just how little she grasped engrish language pronunciation rules, especially if she thought she could just chop a word to pieces and still get any coherency. (One could only hope she wasn't a uni-student ) Funnily enough, you can chop quite a few multi syllable thai words into individual syllables and they still carry their inherent pronunciation, but alas, the same cannot be said for engrish.

A friend of mine had a thai significant other whose nickname he told me was 'Bun' (using a American Midwest accent). Yet when I asked her, she said it was เปิ้ล.

That's why, for the most part, I forgo the b/s thai nicknames altogether, and just ask them their real name. Surprisingly, once I have them write it down and hear it pronounced I've found that; despite their real name being FAR longer than their single syllable nickname, they are all quite unique, and at least to me, far easier to remember than the plethora of b/s nonsense nicknames out there.

Here's a nice example of "pop as social commentary" that manages to get through the whole song without once using the expression รักเธอ! Enjoy. Sw

Too Funny, that is แสน นากา (San Naka)! He's a regular player in the Bangkok club circuit. He's also the older brother of เสก โลโซ (Sek Loso)!

I too find it tiring that the term รักเธอ is so over used in thai songs, but then hey, how else are they gonna say "luv u"?

Great link for songs though, thanx. ..

In an earlier post in this thread I mentioned the books about thais learning english written by Andrew Biggs.

I just finished the one called "Methods to speak english like a foreigner" or in thai "วิธีพูดภาษาอังกฤษเหมือนฝรั่ง". It is both an easy read and carries a LOT of the same information foreigners should take to heart after they have a basic grasp of the language when they want to speak thai.

He outlines 10 'rules' and then expands on them with anecdotal stories, and his ever present and pretty humorous writing style.

Here are his rules to speak english;

กฎข้อที่ ๑ ลืมกฎซะเถอะ - Forget the rules

กฎข้อที่ ๒ ขอร้อง... พูดผิดเหอะ - Please make mistakes

กฎข้อที่ ๓ ห้ามแปลตรงตัว - Don't translate

กฎข้อที่ ๔ ใช้ภาษาแบบง่าย ๆ - Keep it simple

กฎข้อที่ ๕ กรุณาพูดช้า ๆ หน่อยได้ไหมครับ - Could you please slow down?

กฎข้อที่ ๖ ทำตัวสบาย ๆ - Relax

กฎข้อที่ ๗ ฟังแล้วเลียนแบบ - Listen and copy

กฎข้อที่ ๘ เดา - Guess

กฎข้อที่ ๙ ต้องให้เวลากับตัวเอง - Give yourself time

กฎข้อที่ ๑๐ อ่าน อ่าน และก็อ่าน - Read, read, read

The last one;

แถมอิกกฎหนึ่ง หาเพื่อนฝรั่ง - One more rule; Find a foreign friend

Now seeing as these books are geared towards thais learning english and they have english examples of sentences etc, they're not all that hard to read and/or get the gist of what he's going on about.

My reading is far and away my strongest thai language skill; (after that comes my typing in thai, NOT written, but typed, and then at a distant third is my actual speaking ability ), yet I was able to read the book, talk to my thai friends concerning the subject of the chapters, and even read aloud some of the more humorous stories for them (much to their amusement at my terribly toned thai ).

You may have to look up some grammar specific terms (I know I did, as I had no idea that วลี was 'a part of a sentence', nor no matter how hard I tried could I even begin to pronounce the word; ทัศนคติ (that-sa-na-kha-dti) or know it meant 'viewpoint' or 'point of view'), but I do now ! For the most part, I've found the books quite easy to get thru even for a hi-basic or low-intermediate reader like me.

When I read, I like to go to places where air-con is free as it’s NOT free in my apartment. It throws almost every thai who sees you reading a book like this for a complete loop.

Evidently they don’t see too many foreigners reading a book, written in thai, about the subject of how to speak english like a foreigner. It's been a definite conversation starter on more than one occasion, and a good ice breaker.

Most people I know who live 'close to the edge' routinely use some of their 800K baht during the course of the year to live on; then simply 'top it up' BEFORE they go reapply for their extension of stay.

Of course it goes without saying that you MUST follow the previously posted rules about 2 months seasoning for 1st time applicants and 3 months seasoning for subsequent extensions.

เกมไทยชื่อ"น้ำเต้าปูปลา"...เล่นยังไง?

I have watched the people across the street from my soi on the Sukhumvit play this game every morning for many months as I make my way to read the paper and drink ice coffee.

I was able to glean quite quickly that it’s a gambling game, and a fast paced one at that given the rate at which money changes hands.

There are 6 spaces on the game; a bottle gourd, a crab, a fish, a chicken, a shrimp, and tiger. They use three dice with the same characters on it. About the only thing I can figure out is it's played almost like the game the thais play on their mobile or with dice, which they call ‘hi-low’, and is an odds betting kinda deal.

People cover the characters or a group of characters with money, then the box is shaken and turned over, people continue to put money down until they uncover the box showing the die faces. What I can't figure out is the odds or how the winnings are paid out.

Anyone got any idea how it's played.

BTW, here's a pic I found of the 'real' game, and on the edges it's got combinations of characters, but the game they play on the street is just a piece of hardboard with the 6 characters inked in with black marker. I think when they play combinations of characters they cover several with the bill they're betting with.

It's obviously a fun game as there are always a group of 6 to 10 people around boisterously playing and there is much banter between the players. During the weekdays, and even people dressed as office staff, security guards, etc play it while they wait for their bus.

Either it is played by a set of obscure rules or I am just too stupid to catch on (most likely the latter )

Perhaps you might wonder just what this has to do with thai language, but I thought the thai language pundits might know more about it than the run of the mill forum users.

Note to MODZ: if talking about this game is against forum rules because it appears to be a gambling game, feel free to delete it and accept my apologies.

Note to Thai Language MODZ: If you feel there is no value in discussing this in the thai language forum, feel free to move it and/or delete it.

Thanx

Last time I was there, just before the riots, all the books were still available. Go to the Book Store on the ground floor of the main AUA branch on Ratchadamri.

Their main number is 02-252-8170, call them and ask for the book store to check if they're still in stock.