Tod Daniels

While freedom of the press is a great ideal, realize this country has what is generally referred to as "self censorship". Neither English printed paper would dare publish something that is "out of line" with the government's idea of how things should be spun to the foreigners residing here. It also appears the English reading public may in fact be a very small financial pie to divide between two newspapers, hence the decline in both content and cost saving measures implemented by both papers.

Both the Bangkok Post and the Nation News are designed to put a very pro and very "we-b-thai" slant on anything going on in this country. For the most part the papers are far less critical of things than even the most conservative thai language paper. I won't even comment on the fact that the English printed newspapers cost more than twice as much as a thai language paper.

Learning to read thai has given me the opportunity to delve further into most things given only cursory treatment if any in english printed papers. Unfortunately the use of idioms, slang, and catch phrases makes reading a thai newspaper a very tough slog at times.

I have seen my share of foreign/thai altercations, and unfortunately I cannot recall a single instance where it worked out in favor of a foreigner once an altercation escalated into violence.

I would suggest you disregard ANY advice from the ever popular poster "petitechevre" aka; little goat. He may tell you to bluster through it with bravado and/or violence. However if push comes to shove realize; you may beat the thai who is confronting you, but you most certainly cannot beat the other 63+ million inhabitants here who will come and beat you to a bloody pulp on the street.

I also find it strange that EVERY food vendor on your Soi 'hates' you. I've passed the same vendors for going on 4 years and they're friendly to a fault, although I rarely buy from them. It's the same with the moto-taxi guys on my Soi; friendly, always saying hello to me, etc.

I don't understand how, in such a short time, you've alienated so many people. Most thais are non-confrontational to a fault, (they're hard wired that way from infancy). They can be pushed pretty far by western standards before exploding. Although that being said, and you obviously being a foreigner, unfortunately you never know exactly where the line is, until you've pushed them over it.

Good luck, enjoy your time in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", turn the light out when you leave.

and this is why so many beggars have to give their eyes, legs & more to their mafia bosses

WOW! With a grand total of 8 posts, you are now the "expert in residence" on all things thai. Your gullibility is only exceeded by your ignorance.

You'll fit right in here, welcome to T/V.

It is so discouraging to read how easily foreigners are duped into thinking every beggar in the city is run by the ever present yet never seen "beggar-mafia".

I know the beggars in my neighborhood. They're the same people every day, who are most definitely NOT delivered by some mythical mafia each evening to start working, nor do they hand over their money after their "shift" ends either. I've chatted with them at length about their 'job', etc.

They have what best can be described as a 'team' of say 5 or 6 beggars. They pool their resources, rent a small room, look out for each other to some degree, and try to keep other beggars out of their area. They go "home" at nite after "work" just like everyone else. In their case, their "job" is to beg money from foreigners. The ones in my area won't let anyone who is able bodied into their "team", saying, "he can work, we cannot". Most of the people around my house are missing legs, arms, or have some type of major disability. All in all they are a good lot of people doing no one any harm, never forcing anyone to give, and are always polite to me yet I've not given them anything other than acknowledgement when I pass them.

NOW WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, BACK ON TOPIC:

After I read this thread, and living not to far away, I walked down there to look for the guy but alas he was a no show. (The Christian missionaries were in front of NEP but that is another story). I did speak to some gurls working in a bar beer who said the white haired guy comes by every couple of days and to their recollection has been there at least 6 months on and off.

It is reminiscent of the young foreigner who used to beg by the Sala Daeng BTS during the day with the sign about being short of money. Upon questioning he revealed he just begged to finance his travels around S/E Asia, saying the thai office gurls would often give 100-500 baht to help him out.

*edited for pesky spelling errors*

While this may sound off-topic;

You may think investing time into learning to read and now evidently type "karaoke thai" can help you initially. However, I would suggest learning to actually read thai characters as a far more time effective endeavor.

Here's a Breaking News Bulletin: NOTHING ANYWHERE in thailand is written in karaoke thai, nor can most thais make heads or tails out anything written in it AT ALL. It was developed as a study aid to facilitate foreigners to start speaking thai faster by bypassing the time it takes learning to read thai script ONLY.

Anyway, good luck, any time spent studying cannot be discounted as a complete waste of time if you're learning something.

So all you've invested so far is time chatting with her on the internet (while at work, so in reality you were getting paid to chat), and that's it.

The facts I gleaned after reading your little novella are; You're young, you are in no hurry to marry, you know next to nothing about thailand other than the bar scene.

While the poster 'haltes' said "500,000 is probably the average price of sin-sot at the moment for the middle classes", here's a breaking news flash; sadly an ex Pattaya bargirl from Surin doesn't fall into the category of "middle class" no matter how much you grade on a curve to skew the numbers.

The fact is a "second-hand" or "gently-used" thai gurl is worth ZERO sin-sot to any prospective thai suitor. Now if foreigners even understand that information is dubious. Given the number of foreigners I've seen with their "splayed-toed, tattooed, gold encrusted, thai-in-tow" and the obviously 100% thai (not luk-krueng) baby in a stroller, I believe most don't even have a clue.

While this is slightly off topic; before you run headlong into becoming a card carrying, color coordinated shirt & bracelet wearing member of the "wanna-b-thai" faction realize; culture and brainwashing are NOT synonymous. Just because I was trained as a child to wash my hands after using the bathroom does NOT make it part of my culture; it only makes it an ingrained behavioral pattern. There is very little in the way of real culture here, most of it is mindless actions that the inhabitants here have done for generations. Due to the excessive lack of critical thinking in this country, no one questions it, so it's pawned off as alleged and/or mythical "thai culture".

Now back to the topic at hand; some foreigners I know who are married to thais NEVER paid a single baht of sin-sot; while other's paid ridiculous amounts for gurls who didn't finish 6th grade and whose resumes consisted of pulling rice in a field in Nakhon Nowhere. It can run to both extremes of the spectrum.

TLL is a crap shoot, its hit and miss with more misses than hits. Take some time, you're getting paid to chat at work, so use the time to really talk to as many as you can. I know someone from America in his late 60's who came out here for 3 weeks and had 4 or 5 dates a week with girls he'd met on that site. Last time I talked to him he'd found a girl worth investing his time into and has plans to return here next month.

I think if you discount the extreme posts from the "thai-bashers" and the "wanna-b-thais" on the forum you'll be in the ball park as far as advice. Then again my version of reality may not be compatible with yours.

Good luck. ..

While it is indeed a sad story. It is far from an isolated incident in this country. I fear it is played out all too often (but rarely making the news, for it would hurt the cash cow of tourism).

How many 'suicides' happen here where the foreign husband suddenly pulls a "jumper" off a high building, (often times with his hands tied behind his back, his throat slit, a plastic bag taped around his head, and after shooting himself twice in the back of the head as well)?

Lest one forgets; Greed knows no country boundary, does not discriminate by age, race, color, creed, religion, or sexual orientation. It is, in other words, an equal opportunity affliction.

*edited for spelling*

I have been reading the series of articles Pridiyathorn Devakula has been writing for the Nation Newspaper each Monday. They are about his perceptions of the alleged "corruption" in the thai language, and the evidently urgent need to preserve it's "purity".

In Googling his name I wonder if this is the same guy who is the Governor of the Bank of Thailand and was the Minister of Finance in late 2006-2007?

Does anyone know what his language qualifications are other than being a native thai speaker (which in his eyes at least makes him a language expert).

Some of the things he says are downright draconian,. I believe his failure to acknowledge EVERY language is continually evolving and more a "work in progress" rather than a static entity, is a somewhat myopic view.

His dissertations can be found at the Nation site by searching the archives.

Which year are you taking about?

Had you even done a cursory Google of "suchinda government thailand" BEFORE you spouted off about the current coup, you would have seen this is in reference to the coup in the early 90's.

Suchinda Kraprayoon (Thai: สุจินดา คราประยูร) was Prime Minister of Thailand from 7 April 1992 until 24 May 1992. Suchinda was a leader of the National Peace Keeping Council (NPKC), which conducted a coup d'etat that ousted the elected government of Prime Minister Chatichai Choonhavan on 23 February 1991. The NPKC installed former diplomat Anand Panyarachun as Prime Minister. After the general election on 22 March 1992, five parties supported Suchinda as the prime minister.

His appointment as Prime Minister on 7 April 1992 resulted in large protests, culminating in a general curfew and military deployment in Bangkok. In the event known as Black May, up to 300 people are believed to have died when soldiers opened fire on unarmed students and demonstrators during the protests. Further escalation was avoided by the intervention of the King.

Suchinda's resigned from the Premiership on 24 May 1992. After resigning, General Suchinda was appointed Chairman of Telecom Holdings, the holding company of Telecom Asia.

I believe the poster was drawing an analogy between the misdeeds of the past prime minister's actions and the lack of any repercussions, while the most current ex-prime minister is facing a much different tune.

30 seconds worth of Google would have solved your "open mouth insert foot" nonsensical statements.

Upon further reflection and after reading the totally paranoid advice handed out by conspiracy theorists, and/or safe eating advocates, my advice would be;

For the entire duration of your vacation here; don't eat ANYTHING, nothing at all, not a single bite of ANY food.

It's probably not safe.

NEVER eat fresh food, (dirt could be on it)

NEVER eat cooked food (dirt could have been on the cooking pot)

NEVER eat canned or boxed food, (dirt could have, via osmosis, gotten in)

NEVER ever drink ANY water unless it's out of the toilet bowl (long known by savvy travelers as the safest source of drinking water in the world, bar none.)

As a tourist you're better off fasting for the entirety of your vacation. IF the masses of overweight, waddling, profusely sweating, wide eyed tourists around my area are any indication, all of them to a person could stand to lose a few kilos at the very least.

I routinely ship DVD's of computer programs, current movies, games, and the like back to the US in those flat padded envelopes, usually with a dozen or more discs per envelope. NEVER has one been opened. I usually ship out a few envelopes every couple of months.

Sadly, I too am pulled out of line every time entering the US for "further scrutiny". I usually always have DVD's of current movies, pc programs and games in my suitcase (of course they're like all the stuff here; copies). They have perused them but never taken any or lectured me about bringing them in.

I would say you're further ahead to mail them to your address in the US before you fly back. There is a higher chance of them getting thru; higher even than your paranoia about being questioned when arrive with them in your luggage.

Not being particularly enchanted by, endeared to, or enamored with females in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", or of the Asian persuasion in general, I have no (in)significant other to sing the praises of to the masses about how much she is a "good girl".

One would be lead to believe from the all too numerous postings on this forum; that foreigners here are married to and/or involved with only "good" girls. In retrospect if I had a baht every time a foreigner prefaced an introduction with the phrase, "She's a 'good' girl..", while beaming moronically at their gold encrusted, often tattooed and pierced, (in)significant other, henceforth referred to as their 'thai-in-tow'; without a doubt I'd have a sizeable sum now.

My observations both in and out of Bangkok of foreigners and their 'thai-in-tow', have shown me at least, that the number of foreigners marrying hi-so, medium-so thai girls is clearly in the minority and the "good girl" theory just doesn't bear up under close scrutiny. I have observed too many foreigners throughout the glorious "Land 'O Thais", who seem to pick the poorest, least educated, most splayed toed girls (with a skin tone I will not mention here). They are the proverbial 'farmer's daughters', (of which; in this country, there is no shortage).

While beauty is most certainly in the eye of the beholder; a person speaking even "two-word tourist thai" would quickly find out what the thais think about the mystifying foreign predilection and/or attraction to females that thais almost universally find unattractive or downright ugly.

So much for cutting edge demographic research.

Sigh…. The mind truly wobbles..

**PLEASE NOTE: this is a very tempered post as I am trying to adhere to the forum rules**

I have no problems.

In fact, I see many Thai women who are in relationships with Farangs putting up with all kinds of crap that the vast majority of western women wouldn't stand for.

In many cases it's the Thai women who gets the raw deal.

While I am loathe to agree with Maigo6 (about anything); unfortunately I have seen this treatment first hand by foreigner's married to thai women.

In a relationship forged between similarly educated, similar income partners NONE of the crap I see thai women endure would be tolerated, in fact it'd be litigated expediently.

Several things; (all surprisingly unmentioned by the O/P in his indepth post) have to be taken into consideration BEFORE offering a single satang to the prospective in laws.

1) Is your blushing bride to be of the "second hand" or "gently used" variety? Meaning has she been previously married? (Even if it was just a monk tying a mop-string around their wrists, also known as the "dog and pony show", she was still married).

2) Does she have any children by her previous suitors?

3) What is her financial contribution to the family presently?

4) If she is now working and contributing financially for the support of her family, will she continue working after the marriage?

OR

Will she like so many wives married to foreigners become a som-tam swilling, thai soap opera watching couch-potato who does absolutely nothing?

A positive answer to either number 1 or 2 means in this country she's second hand goods and her resale value has depreciated measureably. It is what it is, that's just a fact of thai perception.

These and obviously many more things should be factored into the equation. Things like what are you going to do here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" to generate a positive cash flow, where are you going to live; up-country or in a major city? What is the financial status of her family now? How many other siblings contribute to the family's upkeep or is it just gonna be you because you're the deep-pocketed foreigner?

Not to sound negative, but from your sketchy profile I'm unable to discern if you're genuine, if you're a troll, or perhaps just a genuine troll.

I've eaten food cooked off the street for over 3 years here, EVERYDAY. I've never been concerned with the quality of the food. My B/P is lower here than in the US, my chlosterol is back in line, and I've lost 22 kilos of weight since coming here, due to a freshly prepared versus a fast food, or preserved diet.

Many times in the early morning at the Khlong Toei Market I've seen the food sellers near my house shopping, loading tuk-tuks with produce, meat, etc and racing off to start preparing it for the day. Granted it's rough seeing the pick up trucks loaded with freshly slaughtered and sawn in half pigs stacked like cordwood pull up and off load, or the just dead chickens still kicking but you couldn't ask for fresher meat or produce.

It's obviously a personal choice, but the crazy near insane stuff I've read about MSG laced food, the cancer causing oil, and the rare illnesses people have allegedly contracted are enough to make my mind wobble. Sometimes easily acquired information from the internet is a detriment to common sense, and only adds fuel to the fire of people who see dangers lurking in everywhere. Do what you want "Chicken Little", but the sky ain't falling.

Why do you think the kitchens of most restaurants are 'off-limits', even in first world countries? They're little better than street vendors in the way of cleanliness, and sometimes far worse.

Use COMMON SENSE; watch where the thais in your area eat, and eat there. You should be okay.

To the one's who say it's not safe; you're probably the people I see trapped in the bathroom because you're afraid to touch the door knob to get out, forcing you to wait until someone else enters.

While I am not one to relate heart-wrenching tales to forum reader's about the native inhabitants of this country, I will relate this to;

There was an old lady who begged by my apartment near Asok and Sukhumvit. She had no fingers on either of her hands, just stubs and thumbs. She also was missing half of one leg, and half her foot on the other side. Sometimes she'd sleep on cardboard at the crossover under the BTS line.

I started watching her right after I moved here, as I walked past her 3 or 4 times a day. She never waved her begging cup jingling change, never wai'd piteously with beggar's eyes, but always said, "Sa-wat-dii ka" and smiled at me. (Surprising actually because very few thais EVER smile or initiate conversation with me) Despite her terrible disability she was doing what she could to live. Once in the early morning I saw here washing herself at a hose spigot by Leader Price, and she could barely tie her dress (being with out fingers as she was).

I then decided as a personal choice to start to give her money; every 2 weeks I'd give her 500 baht. I even set my phone to remind me so I didn't forget. I NEVER was showy about it, NEVER put it in her cup, always squatted down, chatted with her a few minutes and surreptitiously put it in her pocket or the small purse/bag she had. I did this for nearly two years.

One day after not seeing her in a while, I saw her begging near my house again. Sadly she looked much the worse for wear, had fresh bandages and wasn't looking good at all (and she was quite frail to begin with). I was in a hurry, to make an appointment, and told her I'd see her when I returned.

Unfortunately, when I got back to my home area she was already gone. The next day another beggar in the area told me after she left, she'd died. Evidently, she was at the room where the beggars stay, was taking a shower, fell and hit her head, went into a coma and died on the way to the hospital.

When I do something charitable; I prefer to do as the thais say; (ปิดทองหลังพระ) Bpid-thong-lang-Phra or; "Put gold (leaf) on the back of a Buddha (image). I didn't give her money for recognition, I did it to help better her life in a small way.

Although she died many months ago I still wonder IF I'd have just taken a few minutes of my time to go get change and gave her the 500 baht like I always did; would it have made a difference in her living or dying? I don't know. ..

As it is your money, what you do with it, is after all your decision.

It is true the beggars are either run by the mafia, who bus them to tourist areas early in the morning or far more likely and prevalent are "teams or groups"; where a several beggars from the same area will pool resources, have a small room, share food, and try to watch out for one another.

As an aside; unless I am mistaken, I was told by a thai that the blind karaoke beggars you see are given those machines by some government branch, (as they're all the same brand of machines), and it's a way they can generate income.

That guy with one leg cut off who crawls along Sukhumvit, I've named "inch-worm", and that other guy I call "spine-boy" with the humpback who wai's incessantly are really a pleasant guys to chat with.

The first lesson any Thai girl will teach is nam-jai; far too simply defined as "if you have it/can give it - you should".

The obvious error in the previous statement is that a thai girl could teach any lesson to at least a semi-educated first world foreign partner especially something as oxymoronic as the above statement. The statement is made even more ironic seeing as every single thai in this country knows the phrase "What's in it for me?" It's chanted like a mantra when favors are asked.

I have found for the most part Thais are selectively Buddhist much like American's are selectively Christian (by that I mean thru convenience NOT strict practice). When it suits them they will beat the Buddhist drum, when it doesn't fit with their plans they won't. Not really all that much different from any other mass-marketed religion in many respects.

The term 'nam-jai' (น้ำใจ) I believe really means more along the lines of generosity, charitable nature, and thoughtfulness. Although admittedly; at times I find those traits are paid mere lip service rather than given practical application in this country.

The last statement of the excerpt;

The Westerner should feel happy that he has high status within their community because of his nam-jai.

Okay that sounds more like another round of attempted brainwashing by "wanna-b-thai" foreigners with their "second hand" or "gently used" gold encrusted "thai-in-tow" living in Nakhon Nowhere up country supporting an extended family of ne’r do wells. WHO cares what your standing is in the community, you're even NOT thai, you're a foreigner; you can neither gain nor lose face, only thais think like that.

I honestly believe the sooner foreigners stop buying into the generations of mindless brainwashing pawned off as culture here the faster the native people will leave it behind.

It bodes ill for the foreigner's who wash up on the shores here if that mindless hogwash is being touted as the "thai way".

The mind truly wobbles. ..

While the amusing interplay between the often monotonous and all too verbose postings of "Heng" and the ever succinct, to the point postings of "teacup" is somewhat interesting, I feel in all fairness we should get back on topic.

So without further ado back to the O/P's question;

Although you say both your earnings go into a joint account, IF the money is indeed your wife's; well, it's her family, and her money. If there's no financial hardship to your quality of life, or more importantly your bank account, I wouldn't worry.

From my observations; ANYTIME is a good time to send money to the ever smiling yet diminutive inhabitants populating the glorious "Land 'O Thais". The excuse of this or that holiday seems lost on them. One only needs to sit at the bank transfer area of any major bank and watch how the waiting people react like they've won the lottery as their name is called when transferred funds hit their account. .

Those are truly words of wisdom spoken by the previous poster "siamamerican":

Blindly giving the family money is counterproductive. Getting to understand the families real needs is more difficult and many don't have the energy for this, hence many just send the cash with no rules.

Unfortunately later in the same post "siamamerican" says this:

I also replaced the shack they lived in with a functional house.

Whether people live in a shack or not is hardly relative to their quality of life. If that's what they've always done, well, I'd let it go. Understanding there is a wide disparity between quality of life, in say; America, and here is the first step to finding out what people's real needs are and addressing them. If they've been happily living in a shack, have never felt the need to invest in as you put it a more "functional house", who are you to change the status quo? (Oh, that's right, you're the rich foreigner in-law. ..)

There is a HUGE difference between needs and wants. Early on one needs to understand the difference as it applies in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and its people. I find thais are more myopic in discerning the difference between the two, and more often than not will lump them into the same catergory.

Managing cash flow to the extended family is the first step in a LONG series of steps which must be addressed in foreign/thai relationships. Do not confuse real needs with the ever present 'face' card which is played so often here. Sadly status is rarely tied to actual needs.

I have my doubts thai senators could collectively agree on the proper way to open a paper bag if the directions were printed on the front.

However, be that as it may. .. ...

Might I suggest you use something called the "in-ter-net" and go to the UNESCO World Heritage Centre site…

That would be this link; http://whc.unesco.org

There you would see that sites are routinely proposed which border two countries, and some of those sites are still in 'disputed territory'. The World Heritage Centre site as well as in the decision for the listing of Prasat Phra Vihear it clearly states; "Recalling that, according to the provisions of Article 11/3 of the World Heritage Convention the inclusion of a property situated in a territory, sovereignty or jurisdiction over which is claimed by more than one State shall in no way prejudice the rights of the parties to the dispute." Although, as you may or may not know, this site NOT in dispute by anyone other than severely myopic thais. The rest of the world and Thailand too (still being a member of the UN last time I checked) is bound by the ICJ's ruling, (no matter how much they don't like it).

What I find truly sad is; without a doubt the easiest access to the site is via the thai side. The chance for the "Land 'O Thais" to capitalize on this, develop infrastructure, open shops, increase tourist trade in the area for locals as well as other income earning potentials are vast. Yet, in their headlong rush to beat the drum about how they were wronged in a decision whose appeal time has LONG since expired, they seem blinded to this fact. Jointly developing the access, and surrounding areas could be a GIANT cash cow for the thais living in that area, (which if anyone has been there you would see those people aren't exactly swimming in baht). It would benefit Thailand much more so than Cambodia.

Another thing I find equally sad is; this entire fiasco over what is truly a miniscule portion of land with little if any strategic or redeeming value to either country is only a smoke screen to breed ultra nationalistic views and hide the fact that both governments; the recently re-elected Hun Sen in Cambodia, and the "Cooking Samak Style" one in thailand have done very little in addressing much more pressing domestic issues facing their perspective constituents.

I don't know if any of the Thai Visa "resident international law pundits" made it to the FCCT last nite for the talk about Prasat Preah Vihear (sorry used the Cambodian spelling).

The person who gave the talk; Professor Sompong Sucharitkul, while now boasting a genuinely impressive resume was probably at the age where he was a file clerk when the ICJ's ruling was handed down in 1962.

They had a hand-out touting the merits of only the dissenting judges' opinions, which didn't bode well for the impartiality of the up-coming talk.

Predictably and sadly it was nothing but thai sour-grapes rhetoric, referencing the 3 dissenting (out of a total of 11) judges opinions, didn't quote a single line from the ICJ ruling or its findings, whined about the invalidity of the 1904 treaty due to "gun-boat diplomacy", and the subsequent border survey/map which has come to be known as "Annex 1".

After the talk during the audience question portion of the program the speaker did little to answer questions directly. He wouldn't comment about whether this entire charade was a convenient smoke screen used by the two countries to stir up rampant nationalism while focusing attention away from both governments' dismal record at addressing real domestic issues or problems facing either nation.

He also skirted whether a non-unanimous decision invalidated the ICJ's ruling (which FYI; it doesn't), whether in the intervening 26 years if Thailand had ever shown a shred of further documentation to prove their allegations that the survey was wrong (which FYI; they haven't), or to address the fact that in 1934-35 the newly created "Thai Survey Division" re-surveyed EVERY border of Thailand with neighboring countries and produced their own map showing the SAME exact boundary (which FYI; they did), or why in subsequent treaties with French Indo-China in 1925, 1937 (just two years after the thai only re-survey) that the area of Prasat Preah Vihear was not brought into contention (which FYI; it wasn't) even though several other areas were disputed and subsequently re-mapped. He also went on about how if you went far enough back in history that parts of Cambodia were Thailand, a fact rebutted by going even further back in history which shows Thailand was only the Sukhothai and Ayutthaya areas with the entire rest of the country belonging mostly to the Khmer.

All in all a predictable display of the mythical "thai logic" and an endless droning on about the injustice of it all, made even more tedious by the fact that the speaker in addition to being thai was also a lawyer who evidently liked to hear himself talk.

It would have been good to have a Cambodian representative there to give a more equal perspective on it all, but this being thailand, I guess we can't have everything.

Still a good nite though.

[A TOPIC OF INTEREST:

Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand

Tonite; The Mystery of Khao Phra Viharn

An Evening with Professor Sompong Sucharitkul

http://www.fccthai.com/Events2.html#PhraViharn

Excerpt about the speaker:

"Somebody who knows more than most about this convoluted legal - and in recent weeks political - story is Professor Sompong Sucharitkul. As a member of the Thai Legal Representation before the ICJ from 1959 to 1962, he was on the losing side of the controversial international ruling - though the decision in Cambodia's favor was by no means unanimous. Professor Sompong studied at Oxford, Paris and Harvard, and became a barrister at law at London's prestigious Middle Temple. As one of Thailand's leading legal minds, his career has taken him to The Hague, the International Law Commission, the United Nations, and a string of professorial chairs at universities in the US, Europe and Thailand. As a top diplomat, he has also served as Thailand's ambassador to the EEC, Japan, Greece, Israel, France, Holland, Belgium, Portugal and Italy."

Book early for a fascinating personal insight into an extraordinary story.

Members: No cover charge, buffet dinner is 350 baht

Non-members: 300 baht cover charge without buffet dinner or 650 baht for buffet dinner including cover charge

FWIW: I have NO affiliation with the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand, but they do put on interesting talks.

Do NOT be so easily duped by the thai media's spin about Khao Phra Viharn and the surrounding area. There is NO such thing as any disputed area; that was hashed out in 1962 with the IJC ruling.

I have previously pointed out, but will again for the thick, just because you disagree with the ruling from the ICJ doesn't mean it's not binding. While Thailand has had the open opportunity to show cause why the ruling is in error, since the ruling they have NEVER offered up a single shred of proof on why it should be modified, or changed. Then again they've only had 46 years to come up with a plausible argument; maybe they need more time.

If you read the decision, see the lackadaisical attitude the thai government exhibited, from 1904 until the ICJ ruling, you can clearly see that they never questioned the demarcation between the countries in that area. They never made changes to the maps from the 1904 survey which included both Thai and French people. Further Siam asked the French to make the maps from the resulting survey as there weren't adequate map making facilities in Siam at the time. Siam even ordered MORE maps and put them into distribution, as well as signed countless more treaties with what was then French Indochina and NEVER ONCE questioned the border in that area, although other areas of border were modified in various treaties.

ALL of the maps Siam used showed the border which the ICJ said was the legitimate border in their ruling, NONE showed any 'disputed area', that's a thai manifestation of a "sour grapes" attitude about losing the decision.

While I didn't bother reading nearly 3 pages of posts, as the answer is NOT up for debate and is most certainly a resounding NO. .. The reply I quoted below caught my attention;

Its climbed the ranks its now a second world country

Please tell me oh wise and witty รักจึงตอแหล that was a "tongue in cheek" remark.

Unless I am mistaken and the glorious "Land 'O Thais" has suddenly become communist it is most certainly NOT a "Second World". Second World countries are Communist/Socialist countries.

Here's how it's broken down;

After World War II the world split into two large geopolitical blocs and spheres of influence with contrary views on government and the politically correct society:

1 - The bloc of democratic-industrial countries within the American influence sphere, the "First World".

2 - The Eastern bloc of the communist-socialist states, the "Second World".

3 - The remaining three-quarters of the world's population, states not aligned with either bloc were regarded as the "Third World."

"First World" refers to so called developed, capitalist, industrial countries, roughly, a bloc of countries aligned with the United States after World War II, with more or less common political and economic interests: North America, Western Europe, Japan and Australia.

"Second World" refers to the former communist-socialist, industrial states, (formerly the Eastern bloc, the territory and sphere of influence of the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic) today: Russia, Eastern Europe (e.g., Poland) and some of the Turk States (e.g., Kazakhstan) as well as China.

"Third World" are all the other countries, today often used to roughly describe the developing countries of Africa, Asia and Latin America. The term Third World includes as well capitalist (e.g., Venezuela) and communist (e.g., North Korea) countries, as very rich (e.g., Saudi Arabia) and very poor (e.g., Mali) countries.

Clearly that puts the glorious "Land 'O Thais" firmly in the "Third World" status. Feel free to argue until the proverbial cows come home, but it is what it is, deal with it.

Why do you find it necessary to sneer at everything and everyone Thai?

I like to think of myself as an equal opportunity sneer-er. My demeaning manner, acerbic wit, and cynical attitude is not limited to one race of people. Although this being the "THAI Visa Forum, I doubt you'll find much sneering on this forum at say; Peruvians, Cambodians, Burmese, or as the US President GW Bush calls them "Chinesians' either for that matter.

I also have an extremely limited tolerance for mindless sheep-like sock puppets what ever their nationality.

Surprisingly this is one of the inane thai quirks which some of the rose colored glasses wearing crowd might call a 'cultural' thing; which actually does make sense (as opposed to random actions thais do which have no logical rhyme or reason).

I DO remove my shoes before entering my apartment, although I don't ever take my shoes off entering a thai shop (even if shoes are piled high outside the door).

You see, not being thai gives me the option to follow or ignore any oxymoronic alleged custom at my discretion. Being a foreigner; I can't lose face, nor would the ever smiling yet diminutive people here comment about it openly.

On occasion I've been known to wipe my feet ON the threshold, as they're usually good mud scrapers, so go figure..