Tod Daniels

If you ask most thais they will almost to a person allude to the fact they are "thai-chinese", as it denotes a higher class of people or some mythical quality of inherent wealth, social status, etc.

I find it remarkable so many lay claims to their chinese ancestry. Population wise the country has more people speaking Lao than the national Bangkokian Thai language.

The people who moved here generations ago from china are now thai, NOT chinese, not chinese-thai, not thai-chinese. That's just how that stuff works out.

Given the extreme xenophobia which grips this small country and it's various people, it is humorous so many profess chinese heritage. Again, as I stated it is a face gaining tactic, best to be completely overlooked. People born here are thai, plain and simple. I do and would refer to them as คนไทย.

And BTW, a simple research into the origin of the word farang would show originally it did not have a negative context in usage. However, as with all things; context especially a word will change its definition over time. Certainly in today's society that term can and often does carry extreme negative and prejudicial qualities.

I not shy about pointing out the error of their ways when I am referred to as a farang. I'll often ask if they would rather I call them small dark skinned asians or if they prefer thai. That, along with the statement I am AMERICAN seems to clear up any misunderstanding.

In a very small or rural village where I realize I am dealing with predominantly uneducated people I accept the term, as their exposure to the constant stream of tourists is small. I will still point out my heritage as American on occasion. In the tourist areas of Krung Thep there is NO excuse for being referred to as a farang. That said; bad manners know no nationality or borders. Do not be duped into the acceptance of a term because a thai says; that's how we call all fair skinned foreigners. They have names for EVERY countries people, but choose to use the blanket term for unknown reasons.

I second the poster who said most thais DO NOT speak english. You would be very hard pressed to find someone who can converse beyond their day to day interactions even on Sukhumvit in Krung Thep. In the villages it's far worse, other than the children parroting, "How are you? I'm fine thank you and you?"

On to the original topic; in the nearly three years I've been here, I'd say it’s less than 1% of farangs who can converse intelligently in thai to thais. I mostly hear only the bar-gurl/street thai or what I call "two word thai". Of course any educated thai will pick right up on the class of people you learned from and that automatically stacks the deck against you in dealing with them. So again I second the don't learn from g/f's or bar-gurls, but use a language school.

I’d concentrate on initially speaking, skip transliteration asmuch as you can. While thai has 5 tones, I'd suggest focusing on just the two important ones at first; high-falling & low-rising. The low middle and high constant tones can be blurred in a sentence to no detriment. I’ve found that thais will understand you perfectly, in fact even educated thais often blur their speech with the constant tones. It's the other two that will lead you astray as far as word meanings suddenly shifting.

Teach yourself the consonants, the vowels, tone marks, and then you can see how bad transliteration really is when you see thai and engrish side by side. It takes time, a LOT of time, but it pays off in spades. It is well worth it.

As an aside; I'd say AUA's thai classes for a beginner are a complete waste of time. It is next to worthless if you have little or no thai vocabulary. If it wasn't for the miming out of the conversation the instructors do, most students who aren't already asleep would be. That said, it is an excellent adjunct to someone who has functional thai down and wants contextually correct thai. It is interesting to note; while AUA touts their Automatic Language Growth, or ALG method of teaching thai to non-thais they have a very regimented, multi-level, text book heavy english system for thais learning engrish. When I asked them if ALG is so great why not teach english that way? They replied with the catch all engrish phrase here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", "Cannot." Go figure. .. ..

สวัสดีปีใหม่

Some people seem blind to the fact that a GREAT many people from a GREAT many countries in the world go to the USA on tourist visa's only to end up falling thru the cracks, off the immigrations radar and staying endlessly. While I doubt that is the case of the OP's significant other it is a sad but true fact.

It is up to the applicant to prove they have genuine and sincere intentions of returning to the glorious "Land 'O Thais", hence the "strong ties to thailand" advice.

Your 'sponsorship', 'relationship', and/or affiliation to and with the applicant may in fact jeopardize their chances of success IF it is perceived you are trying to in any way circumvent the system. Which I might ad; I am in no way suggesting. I only point out the US officials seem to play devil's advocate rather than rubber stamping tourist visa approvals en masse.

I know MANY thais who have gotten their 10 year tourist visa to the USA and traveled there several times. True, it does take time for the approval procedure, take properly filled out applications, take paperwork, an interview, and the fees. However IF the applicant is truly a 'tourist', has ties to the glorious "Land 'O Thais", and doesn't try to play the system, it is NOT difficult nor is it the harrowing experience you are trying to make it out to be.

I read this entire thread twice. I could by no stretch of my imagination see how in reading the advice offered you thought you were encouraged to; "lie, fabricate, or obfuscate the information in order to deceive the interviewers".

I await the further responses by the OP with bated breath. Once he cajoles the applicant in to actually attending an interview I am sure we will hear more. Unfortunately, it already reads like a slow motion train wreck.

Good helpful advice was offered, and if not taken, well; สมน้ำหน้า to you and yours.

I noticed this moring I was unable to access the site as the dictionary link is my home page. I didn't get the; "You are not authorized to view this page" message. Instead I got a page stating they were testing new code and the site would be up shortly. Which it is now I see.

I routinely see the 'bible thumpers" outside NEP. I have spoken to them many times. They are NOT mormons, but 'christians'; a catch all phrase which includes too many religious doctrines & interpretations to mention.

Because Thailand's Buddhism beliefs allow for differing views; here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" they are quite 'tolerant' to other religious beliefs. While the article eludes me, I read Thailand was one of the first S/E Asian countries to allow foreign missionaries on their soil.

Corporate religion; which is what most western religions have become and 'selective and/or blind adherence' to any religion are some things I find distasteful.

I think Morgan Freeman summed it up succinctly in a line from a movie he did in 2003 based on a Stephen King novel called Dreamcatcher;

"God is just an imaginary friend for grown-ups."

IF you need something like that in your life to get you thru the day, good for you; DON'T EVER assume it is something I need in mine.

The bible thumpers seem to hurt no one and for the most part seem to be as genuine as a 'bible thumper' can be.

Finding a 'gem' here while on holiday is something akin to panning for gold in a pig trough. You're very unlikely to find real gold.

It takes TIME, and that is what many foreigners here seem the most unwilling to invest of themselves. Perhaps it could be that sex is so easy to find as well as comparatively inexpensive which garners such a 'bang for the buck' mentality. Thankfully with prostitution against the law there is no prostitution per se.

You have to be willing to invest in your appearance, to put time into 'understanding the culture' (oh, how I hate that term), to really attempt learning the language past bar-gurl or street thai. Above you have to frequent places where available women are located. There is no end to the amount of women you can meet. It is the HIGH initial investment in time, and above all in patience which puts many off.

Sometimes a reality check is a tough but necessary thing to. Believe me when you look in the mirror you are NOT seeing you as other people do but as you see yourself. If you are slovenly, over weight, ill kept, what would any beautiful available women see in you, no matter what the country?

Several posters are ‘spot on’ (to coin a phrase not American) in their assessment of a person's actions here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", compared to those same actions searching for love in their home countries. I see many foreigners do things which I am sure would never ever enter their empty heads in their home country during the pursuit of love.

I read a study from a first world country done on where people met their partners. Cited first was their place of work; second their leisure activity place (i.e.; gym, park, rec-center, etc) and thirdly at a regularly frequented entertainment venue (i.e.; dance club, disco, corner pub, etc).

Once you add in the almost brick wall that the language barrier can be, the cultural disparity, the educational, wages and value system differences it is easy to see why such horror stories abound here and success stories are far and few between. When things move more quickly, initial expectations don't equal long term reality and problems start.

I do believe one can find an educated, literate, beautiful partner here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". I know more than one eligible thai bachelorette. They frequent many places foreigner's also frequent, but are shy, reticent, and often times outright afraid to be with foreigners. Sometimes it is the fear they be perceived by their countrymen and other foreigners as bar-gurlz. Other times they are just plain afraid by not having the comfort level of enough exposure to foreigners in a relaxed environment. A first date with them often means taking their friends along as chaperones, so they are not seen as too forward. Once that formality is out of the way, I have found them to be more than accommodating in their charms and their enthusiasm for further merriment.

Too often the success stories I've read and heard about entail accepting a marginal (if that, quality of life), eating semi-gelatinous food in a one room thai shack located in the middle of นคร ไม่มีที่ไหน อีสาน.

Now I'm all for lowering one's expectations, after all "when in Rome-blah-blah-blah", however; "We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto." You wouldn't think of being with someone like that in your country so why would you do that here?

Gems can and are found here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” but it is far from the wide clearly marked "Yellow Brick Road" to love. It is more a vaguely discernable path hemmed in by thorny brambles. However, IF you're willing to get scratched by a few thorns, the destination's rewards far outweigh the journey's discomfort.

Going on my 3rd year living here with the munchkins in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", I have given up on attempting to unravel thai logic. That statement is an oxymoron if ever there was one.

My observations have shown the munchkins here as completely unable to see or pre-act to events they bring upon themselves. They seem unable to take responsibility for their actions. They are oh-so quick to blame someone else for the subsequent consequences or condition(s) brought on by their actions. Any foresight, forethought, or forward looking behavior seems purely dumb luck. Then again, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again.

You can never ever forget this IS a “developing third world country”. It has a huge majority of the population with a very marginal education (by first world standards). I am NOT talking about the brainwashing of "all things thai" or the "we-be-thai mentality", I mean real, valuable, applicable education. You can't lose sight of that while you are here, ever. It is also foolish to put first world values on a third world country's people, so I leave the previous statements as substantiated fact without any judgment. It is highly unlikely that the glorious "Land 'O Thais" will climb another rung up the ladder, in our lifetime or that of our children and actually become 'first world'. So it is what it is. ..

I interact with and speak munchkin-ese to the munchkins as much as I choose to in my day to day life. Mostly I ignore them, ignore their petty squabbles, ignore their selfishness, their face saving, as well as their inherent superiority complex about all things thai.

In mirror to the OP’s plight; I have seen too many vendors be less than polite when dealing with foreigners. I think it stems from having such a high density of tourists visiting the glorious "Land 'O Thais", as well as the perception that foreigners are rich. It is also a fact that for the most part the munchkins have the insulation of their language to 'hide behind', saying what they want with impunity, and suddenly clamming up when they realize too late you understand & speak munchkin-ese. I am surprised the store keeper continued his rant when you spoke to him in thai. I have not had bad manners or poor behavior continue once the language barrier wasn't the comforting insulating barrier they previously thought it was.

A good friend (a thai national, btw), mentioned to me that while I had become quite proficient in the thai language he was concerned as I was not becoming 'more thai'. I told him I took it as a great compliment and went on to say; I didn't ever want to become 'more thai'. I didn't ever want to start accepting the "thai way" (which to me is dumbing yourself down as far as expectations & accepting less).

I treat the people I interact with how I want to be treated. I am polite, but I do make people help me. I mention to people if I am ahead of them in line, I refuse to allow the clerks to ignore me in favor of a thai, and I don’t have any qualms about calling them on it, oft times to their consternation. Does that make me a bad person? (the real question is; do I care?) Am I perceived as polite in a 'thai way' sense of things? No, of course not, but I’d bite my veins out rather than accept their 'thai way'. I don't advocate this for everyone, but is MY way & worked for me for going on three years. If it makes me a person who refuses to buy into 'thai-ness' so be it.

I am American, I am proud to be from the USA & I refuse to ever lower my standards merely to 'co-exist' peacefully with the munchkins. I live here by choice not chance.

The glorious "Land 'O Thais" is a wacky place, a strange place, but ultimately a very interesting & wonderful place. If you don't dwell on the mysteries of “all things thai” or ever for one second buy into the 'thai way' and if you learn some proficiency in munchkin-ese, then for the most part ignore the munchkins as much as possible; you'll be a lot better off, in fact you’ll be just fine.

*Please note; the views expressed are by the author, and no warranties are expressed or implied, your mileage may vary.

Quite a variety of opinions on this thread, but not all that surprising here on the T/V Forum.

I am under 50, retired, NOT married to or supporting a thai national, and on my third Non-O Visa here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

It is not difficult to get Non-O visa's outside of Asia by any stretch of the term. They are handed out by the hundreds, if not thousands in the UK, US, and other places, most times without anything more than an application, a photo and the money.

Lest we forget; it IS their country. What we feel; right or wrong is totally immaterial. The endless whining about a better way, a simpler way, is just that whining. The munchkins here can decide to change, to enforce and to interpret the laws as they see fit. I see no down side to the elimination of an endless stay here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” on 30 day visa exempt stamps. IF you're a tourist, then well, be a tourist; otherwise <deleted> were you doing living here on visa exempt stamps?

If you cannot afford to return to the UK or the US to get a visa; I would hazard a guess that you're in no way an actual contributor to the greasy yet squeaky wheel that is thai tourism. The latest stats I could find put tourist spending at 3700+ baht a day, without hotel costs factored in. I doubt the 30 day runners pumped that kind of baht into the glorious "Land 'O Thais". I know I certainly don’t, but then again, I'm NOT a tourist.

I have heard too many sob stories, sour grapes, etc from long stay 'tourists'. I could fill a book with the excuses they give on why they cannot get 'legal'. In the end its still just excuses, nothing more. This is a cheap place to live and it is a relatively easy place to stay long term. However you can never ever forget the munchkins here in glorious “Land ‘O Thais” run the show.

Lest you think I am unsympathetic (as if I give a ---- what you think); I have assisted more friends than I can count in acquiring Non-O visa's. Yes they did have to slog it to the US or UK but they all are happily coexisting with the munchkins without problems here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

The real meaning of the enforcement is; be a real tourist, get legal, or get out, it’s that simple.

Bummer for you dude. ...

You could have calculated your remaining days using the T/V calculator BEFORE you left, but. .. You did not.

You could have applied for and received another Tourist Visa when you were out of the country but. .. You did not.

You could have applied for a re-entry permit at Suan Plu before you left thus getting the remaining days on your current Tourist Visa but. .. You did not.

Then you have the audacity to whine about enforcement of a rule which was widely published as well as over discussed here on T/V. Inferring the "older guy who was in charge of operation" was biased in his enforcement of the law to you is just too far out there to comment on.

While in the past <--- emphasis on the last word, things may have been done differently here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", that is definitely in the past What they used to do and what they do now are two horses of a different color. You would do well to count your blessings on all the times you were able to enter on 30 day visa exempt (permitted to stay) stamps, and now toe the line in regards to the new rules.

As an aside; I just returned Saturday from my 90 day Non-O Visa run at Aranyaprathet/Poipet. This is my 3rd year on Non-O visa's yet I was asked "tham-arai yuu mueang thai?" and my passport was scrutinized. Still no worryz as I got another 90 days here with the munchkins in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

The person ahead of me (an asian of undetermined origin) was held in line for 10 minutes, had immigration officials grouped around the desk, passport under the microscope, finger counting, etc and was issued just 2 days on his re-entry. So the rules are enforced to asians & farangs alike.

You know the 'game' here, just play it by their rules, “no ploblem-up-2-u”.

Does anyone know the earliest departure time of the casino bus's from Lumpini Park going to Poipet?

The recent "Country Reports on Human Rights Practices" released March 6, 2007 by the US Department of State paints a worrisome picture here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

The report is available here;

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78792.htm

The report pulls no punches. There is no telling how long it will remain an active link before the long arm of the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology aka the ICT Cyber Inspection Team and their lackeys block it so as "to prohibit publication and distribution of news and information that may cause the people to panic or with an intention to distort information."

The truths according to the United States versus the truth according to the munchkins here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” are evidently horses of two very different colors.

It is certainly worth a read to anyone; especially US citizens staying long term in the Kingdom. I think it gives a good representation on what is and has been going on..

I know the non-US crowd will spin it as my governments take on things, but somebody has to step up and be "Keepers of the Free World".

They also have reports available on most countries in the world located here;

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/

The Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia & China reports are worth a read as well.

Here is the information;

My friend is from the UK, 61 years old, here on a Non-Immigrant Type 'O' Multi-entry Visa issued from Hull. It expires on April 7th.

I know he can visa run before it expires & get another 90 days in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

He just recently transferred the 800,000 Baht into the country, however it won't have been here for the 3 months prior to his Non-'O' visa expiring, which unless I am mistaken, is a prerequisite to getting the Non-'O' changed to a Non-'OA' long stay visa.

Now the question;

Can he go to a neighboring country (Singapore, Cambodia, Lao, Malaysia) once his money has been in an account for 3 months, and get a single entry Non-'O' based on retirement, then take that new visa to Suan Plu & have them extend it for a year, as well as buy a multi-entry stamp from them?

While this was a problem of his own making due to procrastination during this last year about bringing the money into the country. I am trying to find a work around which doesn't involve him going back to the UK to get another Non-'O' from Hull.

Any information would be appreciated.

At Suan Lum Nite Bazaar in the pet section there are almost all the popular premium US brands.

If you are looking for good digestion, good nutrition, and good value for your money stay away from Pedigree, Makro, or other supermarket brands. Go with the more nutritionally dense brands like; Science Diet, Iams, Eukanuba, etc. They cost more per pound but the pets eat less, consequently less waste, and better all the way around.

Remember pets don't eat like people do because they are hungry, they eat to meet nutritional needs. If they are getting what they need with higher quality nutritionally dense foods, they will eat less.

Don't ever believe people who say, "my dog won't eat this or that food." Those dogs have their owners trained perfectly. They were also the ones we saw daily at the vet clinic; soo over weight, in such poor health.

Every brand of dog food sold is labeled "complete", but you're better off feeding a 'first world' known brand of premium food.

Good luck,

IF you plan on spending any more than 'tourist time' here with the munchkins in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", and are already in the US, DON'T even fool with a tourist visa.

There are 'soft touch' consulates in the US where you can get a Non-Immigrant Type O Multiple Entry Visa for just the application fee & photo. There is NO qualification about being married to a munchkin, supporting one or more, or anything.

Add into the fact you border run only every 90 days, and get 15 months out of a 12 month visa, it's a hands down winner. It's like gold here and well worth the $125US.

The subject of degreed vs. non-degreed ESL teachers has been beat to death on the forums.

Fact seems to bear out a degree IS required to teach in most, if not all first world countries. The glorious "Land 'O Thais" being a 'developing third world' country has had the bar set way too low for their qualifications of English teachers for too long.

One need only look at their mediocre grasp (if that), or listen to the version of Engrlish spoken by even 'educated' munchkins here.

Unfortunately being in Nakhon No-where Issan "making a contribution to Thai society”, “helping out at all the local events” and of course "loving the culture and the people" means nothing to your qualifications as a teacher. I'm sorry but speaking English as your first language doesn't qualify you to teach it to someone as their second language by any stretch of logic.

The last time I checked; being truly married, meaning; registered at the Amphur, instead of just the "monk, string & gold “face show” put on for the villagers benefit, does give you some specific rights here, limited as they are.

Before you cast dispersions at the bar-owners in Bangkok, Pattaya, etc, please remember; MOST of their employees are from the 'prostitute bread basket' of the country; อีสาน. Billions of baht are on the 'money train' to the north east every year.

Never the less, IF you want to 'really' be a teacher, get a degree. If that is too much commitment, work, or expense for you, get a TEFL certificate. If even that is too much; well it would seem you’ve got whining about the unfairness & injustice of it all down pretty good. Perhaps an NGO would employ you to wring your hands and act concerned.

I firmly believe that quality education of the munchkin youth here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is the only thing which can drag it out of "developing third world" status. While it is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes; as they say, 'hope springs eternal'.

While it is somewhat sad she was killed by her own dogs; it is sadder still is the fate of the dogs now that they are marked 'killers'.

Having worked in the Pet & Vet industry for over 15 years I can tell you with certainty; any breed of dog IF properly trained is no threat to anyone. Conversely; a poorly trained or un-trained dog what ever its size is an accident waiting to happen and the accident WILL happen eventually.

As has been stated in this post; dogs are pack animals, they will happily and willingly submit to the "leader of the pack". That leader HAS to be the owner. Having owned more than 10 Great Danes over 20 odd years, many adopted from pounds; I can say once they were properly trained I had no qualms or problems letting my young nieces & nephews play with and around them.

The link to the statistics, while interesting are more than somewhat skewed. Far, far more large breeds carrying the label of 'attack' type dogs are kept by people in the US over the large hunting, herding, or sporting breeds.

I have seen Rotti's, Shepherd’s, St Bernard’s, Bulldogs, Mastiffs, and other large breeds offered for sale every weekend at Chatujak market.

It is a 'face' or status symbol to the munchkins in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" much like the Lexus' & BMW's parked in the driveways of their owners thai shacks.

The key for any dog, is training, it cannot be emphasized too much or done too little. A well trained dog is a loyal life companion, no matter the breed. The paranoia about this breed or that breed, the large mouth, the "locking jaws" becomes irrelevant IF the dog is properly trained. That is a fact which cannot be argued. As was stated; you can't fault a dog for acting like a dog. You CAN and should fault the owner for not training the dog properly.

I believe the true tragedy is not the owner's demise, nor the ultimate outcome of the now 'killer dogs' fate. The true tragedy is the fate of the undocumented, illegal Burmese laborers which the women employed.

While this 'news' is something, I feel that they will never uncover the truth behind who actually did the bombings.

The bombs were very small, NOT placed in high density, or high population tourist areas, but in out of the way places, which had very few foreign tourists comparatively speaking for Bangkok.

Extremists, seperatists, terrorists or anyone wanting to cause wide scale death/destruction would have had a far easier time in Bangkok at 6PM New Years Eve with the entire population of the town out and about. This was a carefully orchestrated, well thought out bombing which was designed to garner international media attention and certainly NOT something to cause the massive casualties seen with bombings in other countries.

It will be interesting to see the news in the following weeks as to whether this is another thing 'swept under the rug' by the powers that be here in the glorious "Land O' Thais" or if anything actually comes from the 'on-going investigation'.

While it is indeed a thought provoking, heart wretching, tear jerker of story, it certainly high-lites the perils of taking for granted the oh-so fickle government(s) of any 'developing' third world country and what that can lead to.

I am in NO WAY saying the O/P was wrong by using a system which until recently was 'promoted' by immigrations officers at walk across borders as "easy to stay, long time here"; only that in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" as with anywhere, things can & do change, rarely for the better.

I am not casting any negative light on your post I am questioning your statement; "In November Savannakhet told me that that was not correct, and later Bangkok confirmed it was wrong."

I have been in and out of Thailand dozens of times on my Non-O visa's since starting my 3rd year here. I have never ever been questioned about the validity of my visa once it was in my passport. Nor have I ever heard of anyone having to prove HOW they were justified in having the type of visa they had already stamped into their passport at a border crossing. Did you have a single entry 90 day Non-O visa or am I not understanding your post??

Although I am far from a math major, his crossing a border at least every other month for 17 years is nearly 100 border runs! Even living in "Nahkon NoWhere" on the banks of the Mekong River, why would you do semi- monthly border crossings all that time, without ever pursuing another option to stay long term?

It is admirable he supports the people he does, I am NOT demeaning that fact in the least. It not as admirable (to me at least) that he can sing the national anthem. After being here for as long as he has, hearing it at 8am & 6pm every day, he's heard that song about 12,400+ times. He then states in a later post; "My Thai is terrible". How have you survived here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" the past 17 years speaking 'pidgin engrish' & two word thai sentences?

Your plight at immigrations during which you indicated the officer yelled at you & stormed out of the room is remarkable. I cannot even think of a situation in the time I've been here where a thai in an official capacity; Regular Police, Tourist Police, Immigrations Officials, Government Officials, EVER even raised their voice to me, let alone showed the slightest anger.

Without the monetary handouts or support he gives Grandma Loy, Grandpa Noopy, Ning, Lon, & Chaliew each month they will not go hungry, nor miss a single meal. Rural communities have a 'take care of their own attitude' which far surpasses anything in the Western world. The children will not in all likelyhood turn up in Bangkok begging on the Sukhumvit near my house either. They will continue their existence as do all people when faced with major changes in their lives, via the resorcefulness everyone has to overcome set backs.

I find it sad he has a child here. I would expect the child has rights from his father's country of origin if he is registered as the father and if indeed "The Thai government says he must go away".

I find it sadder still he's done nothing in all his 17 years here to straighten this out before breaking into the chorus; "The Thai government says I must go away". The O/P's problem has a solution or several different ones depending on what he chooses and good ideas have been pointed out by the responses to his post. If you are unable/unwilling to pursue any of those avenues; "The Thai government says U must go away".

Dear readers, NEVER EVER, even for a single milli-second, forget this is Thailand; better stated as the glorious "Land 'O Thais". We are NOT Thai, we will never be Thai, we will never be citizens, we will always have minimal rights, face endless restrictions, and will be judged by a completely different 'play book' altogether. It IS their country. Granted their continually moving the goal posts make it hard to keep up. However, the changes in enforcement did NOT magically appear one day and were enforced the same day, at least they gave warning, which is something to be thankful for.

Please don't think my cryptic, ascerbic response is lacking compassion or concern. I may write with a disparaging vein about the glorious "Land 'O Thais" but it is a place I call home as well.

Truly, the silence is deafening. .. ...

Given the HUGE hype & publicity in the news, as well as the endless mindless and meaningless conjecture on the TV Forum concerning the changes in enforcement of the 30-day visa exempt stamps, I would have thought by now horror stories would abound.

Are there holding pens in the no-man's land between Cambodia & the glorious "Land 'O Thais" where people are being held who are denied entry? Are there any first hand, not anecdotal, second hand or third person accounts of anyone being flatly denied a 4th stamp after 90 continuous days in the glorious "Land 'O Thais"? Did all the seemingly hundreds of posters on the TV Forum; formerly using 30-day visa exempt stamps, suddenly run out and get proper visas?

The posts which mention people on their 4th stamp are all too few and contain little in way of first hand hard evidence. "She also learned that some filipinos who was on that trip had went first to cambodia to do a 4th visa run but unfortunately got only their few remaining days out of 90 days." While I am far from an english major when it comes to typing/posting, I find the engrish in the post does little to lend credibility to its content. It is also second hand; "my friend" "she learned" "some filipinos", and not posted by the person who was there or experienced the situation.

The enforcement of the visa laws like all the knee-jerk reactions which happen in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" when they are thrust onto the world news stage in a less than positive light are sure to be poorly thought out, poorly executed, and selectively enforced. The Thai Border Control has not the infrastructure, the staffing, the capability, nor the inclination to make this enforcement happen other than haphazardly at best. It is the 'typical thai way' of doing things in the "magical kingdom".

I await concrete, first hand evidence of someone (from a first world country, not another piss-ant third world one like the Philippines), being denied entry because they have 3 consecutive visa exempt stamps totaling 90 days already in their passport.

I am on the edge of my seat, with bated breath. .. ..

It is refreshing to read the "holier than thou" posts by people on the forum. I enjoy the banter.

That said, she can fly under the radar for years, no one will knock on her door in the middle of the nite, show up and seize her assets, or any thing of the sort.

This is the glorious "Land 'O Thais", it is a developing third world country which in our lifetimes will NEVER make it past that word developing. Enforcement of ANY law is a very selective and haphazard effort at best.

I believe you are beating a dead horse with your 'get legal, pay taxes' rant. She is not under ANY scrutiny now, and those things can only cause scrutiny. The reply "their response was that it was untraceable, therefore they would not pursue such a matter" says it all, end of story. If "they" will not pursue such a matter, then there is nothing the matter, is there?

I suggest she get her Non-O or B visa, and continue her life without causing herself more problems.

LivingInLOS, you seem to be the self appointed moral immigration police here on the forum, but your last comment rings at least partially true; "Of course many rules can be broken and are not enforced, Thailand is a country with very selective enforcement on many issues but it doesn’t then make them legal solutions to the problem, only gives ways to break the laws."

In the glorious "Land 'O Thais", there is a great deal of ambiguity in what constitutes the 'breaking of the law'. It is not up to farangs to decide, to take the moral high ground, or to preach ethics, thankfully for all concerned it is up to the munchkins who run the amusement park we live in to decide.

Good luck to you girlx in getting a Non-O or a Non-B visa as both are good as gold for 90 day stays at a time here in the glorious "Land O Thais".

To each their own. .. ...

กำขี้ดีกว่ากำตด

"gahm khee dee-gwaa gahm dtoht"

This is translated on many sites as "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

I feel the actual Thai translation is far more colorful;

A handful of sh*t (is) better than a handful of gaseous anal discharge.

When perusing Thai Proverbs, it is far better to cut and paste the thai wording into a website which gives definitions rather than take the "first world analogy" of the translation.

Some of them are really quite humorous.

I am believe I have reasoned out the usage of mai and mai-chai, but am seeking some confirmation.

The closest I can glean is; the single word mai is used before an action word (verb) to negate it, as in mai rue; "not know", mai bpai; "not go" or mai mee; "not have".

The meaning of mai-chai seems to be used before a noun as an adjective to state it as a negative. Like; mai-chai nak-thang-thiaao; "not (a) tourist", or mai-chai thiaao puu-ying; not (a) tourist (for) ladies.

I have also heard mee-chai, but found it is just a more formal class of mai-chai.

Any further help or clarification would be appreciated. Forgive my crude transliteration, I know with the myraid of transliteration schemes out there, there is no need for another.

Hope you can understand what I wrote.

I stand corrected. ..

1. Each Consulate or area will have specific forms to use. If Denver says to use download from Washington that is the form to use. UK forms would not be accepted.

3. The US Embassy is the required certification point for US income. You will need supporting papers (OPM pay slips or such) to show immigration but the notarized statement (fill in blanks) from Embassy is required.

#1 is correct. Use the form you get from the Thai Embassy's Washington DC website.

Anything after the first sentence of #3 is not, I repeat NOT correct.

It is true; for US citizens the US Embassy IS the certification point. It is however completely false, that ANY documentation is required to get the notarized letter from the Embassy. Having gotten one last week before Christmas I can say this with certainty. You fill out a blank form letter stating your income, the embassy worker asks you if the information is correct and true and they notarize it. In the US the burden is put upon the person if they provide false information. I believe lopburi3 is confusing the US and UK Embassy requirements. The UK DOES us a 'vetting process', which being an American I am uninterested in. IF you have proof that you receive an income from the US, bring it to the embassy when you go, but in nearly 3 years and over 5 proof of income letters from the US Embassy I have been asked or required to show it 0 times. You will be 'raped' to the tune of nearly 1200 baht to get the notarized letter from our embassy, but just add it to the cost of living in the glorious "Land 'O Thais"

Good luck,

ท้อด แดเนียลส์: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Tod Daniels; Krung Thep Mahanakhon

Hi,

I sent you a message via TV website, but don't know if the system is working. I'd also used it twice to contact "lopburi3" but got no response then either.

The Denver Consulate definitely uses the from from the Washington DC Thai Embassy's site. In the blank at the top where it asks for number of entries just write the word "Multiple". For reason, you can either leave it blank, or write relocation, it matters not.

Send the completed form, your passport, a 2x2 photo, and 125US in a check or money order to;

Royal Thai Consulate General

1123 Auraria Parkway

Suite 200

Denver, CO 80204

If you put a postage prepaid & pre-addressed envelope inside the one you use to send your app, they'll mail it out the same day.

I may be mistaken, but believe the person who issues visa's is named Pat. She's easy to deal with.

Once you're here you'll need to go to the US Embassy and fill out a blank paper which states your income is from the US and is XXX dollars a month. There is no proof needed, it's the honor system, as are many things in the US. They will notarize the paper for about 1200baht and it's what you need for any time you have to show "certified income" from outside the Kingdom.

Tracking a recent Non-O Visa a friend of mine just received from Denver. The FedEx envelope arrived at 11:14am, and was out of their office, on its way back to him at 3:40pm that same day.

The Denver Consulate is a great avenue for people in the US, I wouldn't post about it here much. There is no telling when they may change their scrutiny of applications.

In an aside, two friends just received their Non-O visas from Hull in the UK. They are American, but it matters not your nationality, nor where you get your visa issued. At the end of the day it only matters that you are allowed in to the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Good luck,

ท้อด แดเนียลส์: กรุงเทพมหานคร

Tod Daniels; Krung Thep Mahanakhon