Tod Daniels

You are unlikely to find anything closely resembling the true account of thai history inside the glorious "Land 'O Thais". You are far more likely to find books on it outside the country which bear at least a semblance of the truth. Inside the country you are only able to get books which do not stray far from the "officially sanctioned" version.

Thais are oh-so selective in their perception and the memory of their country's history. I have also found them for the most part to take offense easily to anyone who might challenge "thai history according to thais". Just last week I was nearly in a shouting match with a fairly educated thai who too offense that I mentioned the King (note the respectful capitalization), is an American by birthright. They insisted he was born in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", when in fact he was born just outside of Cambridge Massachusetts. Straying away from the forbidden topic of the monarchy, I have found most thais grasp of history even as recent as WWII is sketchy at the very best.

You have to realize history is written by the winners. I believe the last big 'win' the glorious "Land 'O Thais" had was when they pushed the Burmese back into their country after they sacked Ayutthaya in the 18th century. There are many internet sites which have at least some measure of truth in them but I would shy away from any site written by a thai national or hosted in this country as they will most likely have only the ‘for public consumption’ version.

If you are out of the country I would pick up the 'banned' book, whose name cannot be mentioned. It is definitely an interesting read and certainly makes for some thoughtful reflection on all things whacky and wonderful going on inside the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”.

IF you know going into the game you have to watch your baht 24/7, never believe a thing out of their mouths, and don't ever take the old stand by "mai-bphen-rai" as an excuse for anything, you can live here relatively trouble free.

I freely admit I am not enchanted by, enamored with, or endeared to this 'culture' of Borg-like sock-puppets in spiffy color-coordinating shirts. I am going on my third year here and in no danger of EVER thinking anything of the sort about the natives that inhabit this country. I think to the best of my knowledge that puts me firmly NOT in the 'we-b-thai' camp nor wearing their ever present rose colored glasses.

In other news; I was short changed at Tesco the other day by exactly 500baht. I got the usual brainless stare when I said in thai the change was not correct. I was also holding the receipt and the change in my hand. I asked for the manager; received more blank stares, with the cashier throwing expectant looks at the people waiting in line behind me. As I wouldn't leave the register she finally got the line manager to come over. I explained the problem, again in thai, and she begrudgingly ran the tape on the register, counted the till. Low & behold there was my 500 baht change IN the register. Did she apologize? She spoke not a single word, gave me not a glance at me, just handed me the 500baht and left the register. That is typical for catching people in mistakes here, the ever popular 'face-saving' routine. I just stick to my guns, and make them do what I want. I never raise my voice, never show emotion on my face, but speak very direct, very abrupt thai, leaving out any polite particles, or hypothetical words in what I say.

Speaking thai helps alleviate a lot of issues, but it is far from the life changing free pass to inter-species communication I thought it would be. Often I'll force them to speak english and listen to the thai banter between them before responding to the now group of workers babbling in thai. Mostly to cause them consternation when they realize I can understand, but often to just see what they say when they think they can hide behind their language.

NEVER EVER hesitate to make someone whose job is taking your money to focus on actually doing their job here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". I am sure in tourist areas the rip offs are higher, and adding alcohol into the mix only worsens the chances of that happening.

To the “we-b-thai” faction, who say it was ONLY 5 baht, seeing as it was NOT your money, pray tell where do you suggest the line should be drawn? Wait, let me guess, the poorly educated, poorly paid, impoverished people in this pissant developing third world country need all the help they can get. Of course, let's allow them steal from us too.

I recently watched the Callan/Walen Method School being built on the 3rd floor of the Times Square Building. Evidently the Callan method is the english courses they offer and the Walen method is for the thai language. The owner said they were relocating from a higher floor in the building, so it may have been there for some time.

What interested me was that the thai lessons start right out with thai letters and words. They have no transliteration. Transliteration is used in MOST thai language schools, UTL, Pro Language, and many others I toured before I could speak. I thought it a complete waste of time, especially seeing as NOTHING is ever written here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" in obscure often school specific transliteration. Add that to the fact the thai government has no standardized transliteration scheme (which also shows tones), and it leaves schools are free to use their own system(s).

Being able to read somewhat BEFORE I took a class didn't help at the above mentioned transliteration method schools (Pro Language and UTL). They refused to provide me a text book in thai, saying instead that it wasn't until book 3 that they taught reading. Adding that to their much out-dated but still maniacally adhered to and taught text books and those schools got a BIG two thumbs down from me.

I did take a free one hour class at the Walen School. After the free hour was over I perused their textbook(s) for another hour. My comprehension in reading is quite good but the newspaper still gives me fits. While I can speak easily in actual contextual sentences, without using english words, if I don't speak slowly thais lose comprehension due to my poor tone enunciation. It is also partly due to the fact thais don't expect a foreigner to speak anything close to hi-register thai.

I would be interested in hearing back from anyone who has taken this company's thai language course. I have chatted with Maciej Walenciak the owner many times, and he certainly believes his "direct method" of teaching thai with constant review of previous chapters while using only written thai is superior to all others. IF I had not already been able to read, understand and speak I believe it might be overwhelming initially to a person, but who knows.

As I live close by, I am thinking of showing up at the Walen School one evening to chat with students currently enrolled in the 5-7 class. While I too was told about the ED Visa, I have no visa issues and don't need that feature. Perhaps if enough people from this forum were interested in taking classes there we could get a discount or at least get another class started.

Again we have first worlder's putting their values on third world countries, preaching about being PC, when we live in one of the most openly racist countries I’ve ever seen. Skin color is first, then your social standing in the society and then of course as everywhere $$$.

Traveling around the glorious "Land 'O Thais" the three years I've lived here I can only say "in my experience"; most of the generalizations & thai-bashing I read aren't all that far off the mark.

By all means, go embrace your inner thai-ness, mind meld with their "Borg-like", xenophobic mentality, but don't lecture people on being more accepting or painting in generalizations. There are no black and white just different shades of gray. That last statement is, of course, a generalization

I've got a news flash for you; "We aren't in Kansas anymore Toto". We're in a relatively small sized insignificant developing third world nation in S/E Asia. It is what it is. Everyone doesn't see things through the politically correct rose colored glasses you obviously do.

This forum is about the things foreigners face living in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". The good, the bad, and the ugly. Sorry you're being rubbed the wrong way by some posts, but at least you're being rubbed, and that's progress...

A friend of mine, now back at university in the US, lived in Phnom Penh for over 9 months. He also coordinated a trip for us to the capital, and then on to Angkor as well. I can say without a doubt there are plenty of foreigners making money, as well as investing in the future of Cambodia. They are also doing far better than "paying their bills".

However, as this is the thai visa forum, no one really wants to hear about the benefits of another country, which may have more to offer someone than the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and its ever smiling yet xenophobic inhabitants.

Back to Cambodia;

Sihanoukville I'd forget about, as it's still many light years from a viable tourist destination, whether they have reopened the airport or not. As far as infrastructure, tourist numbers, tourist dollars spent, etc its just not there yet.

Siem Reap may be a place to spend some time looking at opportunities. It is continuously growing, changing, and as it’s the number one tourist destination in Cambodia; year in year out it draws a crowd which has money to spend.

The current PM Samdech Hun Sen, his family and friends have a stranglehold on most industry, all the development, as well as the normal illegal activities like logging, mining, etc. It is much like here with the rampant corruption, illegal logging, smuggling, etc, controlled by a few powerful people. Here those people operate in the shadows, insulated from the limelight. In Cambodia there are no fears of repercussions as they run the country, so it's more in your face and the Khmer people are powerless to do anything for fear of reprisal. Land ownership documentation was destroyed so the government is pushing people off the land they've been on for generations.

I think it is a very hopeful place full of opportunity for the right kinds of businesses, IF you do your homework BEFORE you spend your money. That said; IF you don't take time to cultivate and know someone with at least a modicum of power ie; Police, Military, you leave yourself open to way too many problems doing anything more than a small business with an extremely low profile.

It's cheap to stay in Phnom Penh, with apartments just a short walk from the river being similar in price to Bangkok. High(er) speed internet is far more widely available than even a year ago, and prices are dropping. Food in Phnom Penh is plentiful, and runs the gamut from high end restaurants to street food with similar pricing. I would say the food is easily as good as it is here, IF you know where to eat. The jokes about the water are moot. Who would EVER drink the tap water here? Not even a thai would drink this country’s water...

Unfortunately Cambodia has a negative image which it is trying hard to change. With even more lax visa regulations and enforcement it does attract the dregs of society, much like the areas of Pattaya, Soi Nana, Soi Cowboy and Patpong attract that kind here. Prostitution is as illegal there as it is here, so that should suffice as a comment.

Cambodia is a vibrant country, coming back from one of the worlds worst selective genocides in modern history. Anyone would do themselves a disservice not to at least go see it, and note the changes that have taken place in the last 5 years.

They are on the way to something better. They have the right mindset and work ethic to make a better life for themselves. Is it the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”, thankfully NO. Is it better, worse, equal? Each individual has to decide for themselves, has to see it, judge it, and decide what is ‘better’. The armchair demigods who spout useless wisdom without ever having spent more than a few days in Cambodia should be discounted out of hand as just plain ignorant on the subject.

Good to see Thaigoon (whose post numbers I see are over 1300+) spouting the ever cryptic, but wildly popular; "we-b-thai" comments this forum is known for. Great work there 'goon; you little thai sock puppet you.

Edited twice to correct spelling. ... ...

I've traveled thru many of the rural villages here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and I've run across quite a few First Worlder’s who've gone "native". Whether it is from them having a thai wife from Nakhon Nowhere, and having chosen that lifestyle, or being on a fixed income which doesn't allow for more, I don't know. I have seen it FAR more when traveling thru the rural Northeast than anywhere else, but there were a fair number in the small villages in Northwest as well.

I cannot understand why someone would actually choose to 'assimilate' with this Borg-like 'we-b-thai' culture, as there is no up side. If I live here forever, I will NOT be thai, and quite honestly I wouldn’t EVER want to be. These people are some racist xenophobes to the extreme. They may give you the ever present but insincere thai smile, yet I have found the people from the rural villages not all that interesting on a day to day basis. Other than talking about the other villagers, there is no critical thinking, no bigger picture, no nothing, it’s just gossip

Sign me up to live in the middle of nowhere in a developing third world country, in a village populated by un(der) educated people, eating semi-gelatinous mystery meat foods, gambling on the under-ground lottery and drinking everyday. Sounds like a real paradise...

In thinking back, I believe I’ve never given a person here a wai, in going on over 3 years here. The research I’ve done shows it as a sign of respect given FROM subordinates TO superiors. I’ve yet to feel particularly subordinate to anyone I’ve met here.

I am however all for speaking the language. It is an arduous task to speak well. Once you can verbalize thoughts in more than 'two-word-thai', the thais will, while not accept you, certainly tolerate you. When there is no language barrier they can hide behind, they are much more attentive to what they say around you. Of course they will still talk behind your back, but thankfully, I am relatively unconcerned what they think of me, so what they say to my backside I care about even less.

I respect the culture here as much as I have in any other country I've lived in, but I am an American & will always be one, so deal with it. A person can respect this country’s culture without embracing some mythical 'inner thai-ness'. I would respect someone who is their own person where ever they live, how ever they act, more than I would someone who morphs into a 'pseudo-thai' just to attempt to ‘fit in’.

I hope person in the OP's post is happy, ‘cause at the end of the day, that’s all that really matters..

I think the OP is referring to the phrase บ้านนอก.

In its noun form it is just a rural place, small village, a one horse town, etc. However when it is used as an adjective especially by (slightly) more educated big city people it has a negative or disparaging connotation. In context it can be meant quite disparagingly. I've heard it many times here in Bangkok when city dwellers refer to their more 'rural' cousins.

I would say in American English it is akin to red-neck, country bumpkin, or hick. Then again those words can all take on different meanings depending on the context and the tone they are spoken in.

I think ฝรั่งบ้านนอก is a great name to use. The self-deprecating tone is quite catchy. It will certainly get the thais laughing. Be advised, in my experience, self-deprecation even in jest, is NOT something I have heard thais do often.

What do the Police do to thais who hawk viagra, panagra, fill in the blank __-agra, on Sukhumvit Road, Soi Nana, at Patpong and around Soi Cowboy like it's Tic-Tac candy? They turn a blind eye of course, because they are thai.

I see the same couple of thai guys nearly every time I go out of my Soi, with the same line, "Only one box left", blah-blah-blah.. The stuff they're selling is the same boxes as the Cambodian stuff people who visa run drag back by the bag full. Same crookedly copied insert, same scratched out and re stamped expiration date, etc. I've seen him stand BESIDE Lumpini Police officers, while continuing to hawk his goods.

Oh wait, I forgot, he is a thai, so he should automatically be treated different. He is under-educated, has little opportunity to better himself, and of course was forced by society into selling generic or fake viagra to sex-tourists to continue fueling the billion-baht money train to นคร ไม่มีที่ไหน อีสาน.

The number of people bringing back vitamin-v from the land border crossings is HUGE. When I visa ran last month I saw someone with over 20 boxes on the bus coming back from Cambodia. It is far from an isolated incident. It is also far from something the Police even look for unless someone is really bringing back an overly large amount or of course failed to offer to cut them in on a piece of the proverbial pie.

The OP's story rings too much of someone tipping off the Police.

I think all the negative comments about the new format sounds like a bunch of 'cranky queens'.

It's a FREE forum, <deleted>; 'hard on my eyes', 'font is too small', 'the color makes me ill', blah-blah-blah. Some people will complain about anything in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”. It certainly loads far quicker than the last format.

Ads are ads, they are what allows this forum be free. Deal with it, suck it up, or better yet, if you’re that distracted by the plethora of ads, buy up the ad space and leave it empty.

Overall, two thumbs up

I also did a visa run with Thai Visa Run Dot Com on the 21st, and I can say they HAMMERED people to buy that worthless bus ticket. Going so far as to say, "You not buy now; we not help you at border." Gotta love the ingenuity of the friendly helpful, oh-so insincerely smiling thais on that one.

The 5 people ahead of me at the thai immigrations line checking in with "30-day-free-2-stay" stamps all had bought the bus ticket yet NOT ONE was asked to show it.

Some people from the Philippines had proof of onward air travel within 30 days yet they were hammered into buying the bus tickets. I believe it is a scam to generate another 200 baht. It remains to be seen whether you can actually use the mythical bus ticket from Komreang to Phnom Penh and on to Angkor Wat. IF someone actually succeeds in using it, I'd be interested to know.

I have a Non-O, and I was still asked twice by the lady to buy a bus ticket; "Make more easy you to cross..." I never even answered or acknowledged her talking to me.

IF you have onward travel via air, train, etc take it with you when you border run, as there is NO rule which states you must show onward travel from the exact border you enter into the glorious "Land 'O Thais". The rule is only you must show proof of onward travel that you are leaving the COUNTRY in less than the 30 days they are letting you in for. I belive IF you stood your ground the thai immigrations would accept it without question.

That said; it was far above average for a visa run company. MUCH superior to Jack's Gulf, East Meets West, or the other mini-bus services.

The check in at the coffee shop by the Ekami BTS Station was handled professionally. Plenty of forms were available with pens for those who didn't have one. There was even semi-coherent english spoken by the staff.

On the visa run itself they went thru the bus with a menu with 5 or 6 choices of food and provided a free (30 baht) meal, bottle of water, iced coffee, or pop. The bus had ice cold air-con and several American movies were shown. They stopped on both the outbound and inbound trips for restroom breaks at a clean gas station with a mini-mart and restaurant.

We never even went into Cambodia. The visa company took our passports after being stamped out of thailand, walked them over, got the Cambodian visa, entry and exit stamp and handed them back out while we waited in chairs in the shade at the entry/exit point of thailand.

The new 'rule' about having a copy of the front of your passport and a picture when entering thailand was explained at the check in, as well as when the service was booked on the phone, so no problems there either.

While they had print outs of the 'proof of onward travel' at the check in, they didn't seem to explain it to people who didn't know about it. The only negative thing was it wasn't until the bus was about an hour out of Bangkok that they went around to hammer people for the 200 baht bus ticket, leaving some feeling it was a misrepresented and under pressure on a ‘forced sale’ deal.

It was slow comin' back into Bangkok due to traffic, but that was to be expected given the late 9:30am departure time.

I would recommend people to give this service a try. Believe me there are FAR worse ones out there.

Of interest are the following quotes paraphrased for clarity from the above referenced article;

"Following an informant's tip" - It is an old game to let some drugs get 'caught' so the bulk can get thru. It makes a win-win situation for both the drug runners and the Police.

"Police said the driver and his passenger had looked suspicious so they searched the vehicle" - The Police were tipped off to begin with. Why pedal the "they looked suspicious" line, other than to back slap the incredibly perceptive skills the officer's utilized in apprehending the mules running the drugs?

This is nothing more than a 'look how good a job we are doing' pubiliticy stunt.

Whoo-Hoo, I feel safer already....

When I am speaking to someone from this country (or anyone from a non-English first language country for that matter); I’ll use the initial introduction, pleasantries, etc as a gauge to their comprehension ability. I will always start out in correct contextual English, and then modify my speaking to the level I perceive they have the ability to understand.

Is it condescending? (A better question would be; “Do I care?”). I don't feel any form of communication is dictated by proper grammar. The definition of communication from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary is; a process by which information is exchanged between individuals through a common system (as in speech). If information is being exchanged, communication is happening, mission accomplished.

It is admirable some people believe speaking 'sa-low-ly' will help. Unfortunately, I have found it far from the case in most situations. Many times, endlessly repeating the same sentence while varying the degree of speed it is spoken, while pausing dramatically every so often, and/or enunciating differently won't help their comprehension a bit. It's only too apparent from their body language, their glazed eyes, and their perpetually plastered on smiles (sorry, my mistake, the smiles are always plastered on).

Once I clearly discern their ability or inherent lack thereof to comprehend contextually spoken English; I'll begin by leaving out linking words, tenses, or any words which aren't needed to convey the basic thought or idea. Many times I have found it helpful to construct a sentence using English words but in thai word/sentence order. Usually that is enough to immediately get the point across, when moronically repeating the sentence, sa-low-ly (as advocated by some sock puppets on this thread) will not achieve the required results in a minimal amount of time.

In going on 3 years here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", I can count on one hand the thais I've met who can actually speak anything bearing a slight resemblance to high register spoken English. In that time I've met many highly educated thais with master and/or doctorate degrees (gotten from outside this country, often in the US), yet they have english skills which I'd rate right up there with the mystery-meat-on-a-stick seller on my Soi.

If I had a one baht coin for every time a thai replied to the query, "How are you?", with the slurred single word response; "Iamfinethankyouandyou?", I'd be a billionaire.

To the people who say it does a 'disservice' to speak pidgin engrish I say; "Not job me, teach speak, job country they."

Arrogance has to be earned. Tell me; what you did to earn yours?

Don't EVER apologize for having a personal opinion on anything.

While I do disagree with the majority of 'foreign bashing' that takes place on this forum; I realize the opposite happens all to frequently as well.

I will always accept and defend your right to an opinion, however diametric to my own it may be.

Your predilection to voice anti-foreigner views are much needed in a forum about differing perspectives here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

It is the very things we differ on which make this even a remotely interesting forum to peruse.

In short, while I am loath to admit it; it is our differences which bring us together.

That said; I won't ever be a mindless sheep, embrace my 'thai-ness' or my 'inner thai'.

Bash away. ..

First and foremost;

Take off your rose colored glasses. To paraphrase Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz; This ain't Kansas, Toto.

This is far from an idyllic place filled with helpful, oh-so moronically smiling natives, nor is it the TAT sanctioned version of the country you see in the ads for a vacation.

My motto;

NEVER EVER trust the natives of ANY insignificantly tiny, pissant, sh*t-hole, developing third world country, and of course, trust the foreigners who live in it even less. First world values have little or no place in a third world country.

Speaking and comprehending the language even at a rudimentary level is a MUST. It will help you avoid 99% of the pitfalls which are all too common in places like these.

Please note; the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is no better or worse than any of the above referenced countries which seem to be scattered haphazardly around the globe. While I firmly believe most thais wouldn’t piss on foreigner who was on fire; they would bring chicken on a stick to cook over the smoldering ashes.

Streetsmarts is taking something for what it is, not how you would like it to be.

To quote a line from the US television show The X-Files;

"Trust no one"

That single line will save you more grief than you will ever know.

I will voice for the record;

I am alarmed to be once again on the ‘same side of the fence’ as Maigo6 in this issue; but the truth is the truth.

The enforcement of the visa laws may be of consternation to; the great majority of ‘english teachers’ here without work permits, the married without proper visas and living in นครไม่มีที่ไหน อีสาน supporting an extended family on a shoestring budget crowd, as well as the long stay whore-mongers or 'sex-pats' too poor to get retirement visas and staying here on the ‘free-2-stay-30-day’ passes.

For the most part, any foreigner with enough money and marginal sense can easily get a year long visa to the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” from a number of countries outside Asia. Of my friends (which given my cynical, acerbic wit; granted are few) who live here full time, not a single one was impacted with the visa enforcement changes. This country is a walk in the park to get a visa compared to other countries; IF you play by their rules. That the rules change or seem to be in flux is their prerogative; it is after all, THEIR country.

The changes to and enforcement of the visa laws will have little or no impact on tourism dollars to thailand as a whole. Studies show the bulk of tourists are from Asia, they are usually in group tours, they stay an average of 19 days, and they spend in excess of 3700 baht a day, excluding lodging. I would wager most of the "free-2-stay-30 day" people don't spend that in a week.

That these 'free-2 stay-30-day' people contribute significantly to the thai economy is a complete fallacy. Believe me your street vendor isn’t gonna close up shop because you don’t buy your daily fish-on-a-stick or som-tam. Other than fueling the billion baht money train to Issan, as well as showing profits for Chang, Singha, Leo and Tiger, I can't see the HUGE financial benefits to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" that everyone alludes to them losing out on with the visa changes. I am and always will be proud to be an American, but I am all too often embarrassed by my drunken countrymen’s actions here.

Conversely trying to get a thai person a visa to either the US or the UK is a NITEMARE. It is more than gestapo like tactics, it is down right shameful to see the vetting process a thai national is subject to and has to endure to get a visa. Both countries operate under the premise that a thai is unlikely to return at the end of the visa. It is up to the individual applying for said visa to prove they have ample assets in thailand to motivate them to return home at the visa's expiration, and then it is still ‘discretionary’ as to the approval of the visa.

I see nothing wrong with the glorious "Land 'O Thais" bringing the bar up a notch to weed out what they consider undesirable elements. The whiners are just too poor, too stupid, or too caught up in the 'poor-poor-pitiful-me song & dance' to play the game.

I retired at 45, am 48 now, so too young for a retirement visa here. I have been using thailand as a hub to tour S/E Asia and it has been a perfect place to live. My Non-O visa lets me leave as many times a year as I want to, returning each time with fresh 90 day stamp. I'm not hassled at the border, and I return home each year to acquire another visa. However; not having to work, not drinking, not being married to, involved with, or supporting a thai-gurl, I realize my requirements may differ from yours.

Is it worth it for the retired person on a limited amount of funds to move here? I would say only you can decide. If you’re considering a move here, I would caution to weigh the financial pros and cons carefully; as well as the volatility of the currency and political situation. Get a year visa in your country before you come and try it out, it will save you many headaches. Believe me the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is NOT for everyone, but at least for now, it is for me.

I am all too concerned over the quality of our health care and the system as a whole in the USA. In a recent study we were ranked at the bottom of first world countries for quality, affordability and efficiency.

As long as insurance companies run the health care system; controlling treatment fees, and pharmaceutical lobbies control the drug pricing, we will continue to see travesties like this happen.

I am and always will be proud to be an American. Unfortunately some things in America do cause me consternation.

I will note first off; it vexes me greatly to be on the same side of the fence as Maigo6.

Unfortunately the reply is right on the money when it comes to lending to other foreigners (sorry boycotting the word farang this year).

My motto; "Never ever trust a thai and trust the foreigners here even less."

If a foreigner can't afford to live here; go back to where ever you're from and give it another go figuring out how to make enough money to survive in a third world country.

As a response "pumpuiman" made; "you would watch your wife's mother starve". In close to 3 years I have yet to see a single person go hungry in this country. Be it in either in a rural village, of which I've been to many, or here in Bangkok everyone seems to get enough food to live.

"Any cost incurred is minimal by farang standards". That it is big or small money in a first world country is of no value in this discussion. Unless you've not noticed with your rose colored glasses and all;

This ain't Kansas, Toto.

Do all the 'charity work' you want. I'm sure the thais you hand money to are eternally grateful.

As is the consensus of most respondents on this thread, I advocate the answer "Just Say No..."

It is a slippery slope indeed once you start giving 'loans'. This one country language has different words for; 'borrow', "borrow with interest", "lend with interest" as well as "give". Any search of a thai dictionary will result in many colloquial or commonly used terms for "lend with interest". It is far from a foreign concept to thais and most small villages have people who routinely lend money with interest.

I have rarely met a thai who seems to understand or grasp the subtle distinction of give/borrow where a foreigner is concerned.

More likely than not, you will become the bad guy for trying to collect what is owed you. You will hear a myriad of meaningless excuses, often the same thing recycled over and over. The effort needed to recoup a "loan" will far out weigh any measurable social benefit gleaned for "being a good guy to a thai".

If you do it once, and are not repaid; you're seen as a cash cow. Conversely, if you make, force, pressure someone to repay you with interest, I have found that few people will ask; knowing you act like a 'thai money lender', lol..

I also give a big thumb’s down as far as trusting the wife's intuition unless you've been married a LONG time, and seen what value she places on 'your' money.

That said, borrowing money without repaying it knows no borders or races. Here it is far more prevalent in the thai-foreign marriages as it is a well known fact foreigner’s s**t thousand baht bills, or have the proverbial money tree in the back yard.

hill16; you would do good to follow your own advice, which if you've forgotten was;

"Hi guys,

Can we please stay on track and deal with the original poster's query?

Thanks."

I see yet another possibly interesting post on the T/V Forum straying far a field. It seems to be happening all too often anymore..

Hill16; Go join a charity, save the vegan whales, or beat a drum about the inhumanity of it all, but let's get back on the topic of this thread if we can.

I took the JFK-BKK Thai Airways flight when they were still running 5 days a week before they cut back the departures due to lack of demand. It worked out great as coach seating had only 54 people in it. Nearly everyone got an entire row of seats to themselves, and ate as many of the miniscule meals as they wanted.

I recommended it to friend, but he took the flight many months after I did. The coach section was completely full, and he said it was one of the worst flights he'd taken.

To say it is a long flight, is putting it very mildly. I can’t remember where I read it, but I think it is the longest in air duration for a non-stop flight available in the World.

You're far better off breaking it up with several legs if you can get good connection times. I've used China or Eva for several trips back and forth to the US. I'd rate either carriers’ service far above that of Thai. Plus as cheap as you can fly from JFK to LAX or SFO on the budget carriers, you’re out next to nothing on domestic fares in the US.

Good to know they have put off raising the VAT at least until September.

To propose raising the VAT from 7 to 10 percent or OVER a 40% increase (actually 42.85%) bordered on insanity. It could however, be interpreted several ways.

There could be a deficit in funds either by lack of money coming in or too much going out.

There could be large proposed increases, in say military spending or in another area of government. The analogy; if the artists ran the country they would increase art spending rings true all too clearly.

There could be a drop in revenue from sectors which are usually large contributors; say tourism.

There could be less spending from the thais and people living/working here. Just as in any country where there is unrest and people hold onto their money more tightly.

It is far too early to predict what factor(s) precipitated the discussion to raise the VAT. At least a road less fraught with problems was taken for now. Letting an as yet to be elected government decide something as far reaching as this was a good decision all around.

I see yet another possibly interesting thread on this forum has deteriorated into the all too familiar America / American bashing rhetoric which is oh-so common here.

Since Cobra Gold has existed for 25 years; even a moron could Google information about the benefits these exercises have brought into the glorious "Land 'O Thais". Google returned 1,950,000 results in 0.10 seconds, so go read up on the facts BEFORE you even start to slag off America.

To suggest (as one poster did) it would be better to hand out money, equipment or medical supplies and let the thais dole it out as they see fit is quite the uninformed statement to make. Don't forget vast amounts of money went "missing" from the tsunami relief funds which poured into the glorious "Land 'O Thais" post tsunami. When an international audit team wanted to peruse the accounting there was, to say the least, a "lack of willing cooperation" from this country. Of course it was masked in mock outrage that anyone could/would question their accounting practices or methods. Hmmm, wonder why?

The US military does many valuable public services here, just as they have each and every time they've run these exercises. To say they take jobs away from the thais is another gross generalization formulated by first world people embracing their 'thai-ness'. IF a thai wants to work, I mean really wants to work, they can find a job. Maybe not in their home town, but they can work IF they want to. It's the lazy ones who bitch, piss and moan, not the ones who want to work, because; wow go figure, they're already working. Don't even start on the wage discrepancy between here and a first world country because if you'd take your thai colored glasses off for a second you'd see "this ain't Kansas, Toto". It is a developing third world country, and pays wages to its people accordingly.

To address the issue some posters have all too quickly pointed out; as far as American soldiers fueling the billion baht money train to Nakhon Nowhere Issan. It is small potatoes compared to what the sex-pats and sex tourists who routinely flock to that area contribute.

By all means keep up the American bashing, but remember, at the end of the day someone has to be “keepers of the free world’;

Step up or shut up.

Research BEFORE rhetoric would seem to be something sorely lacking here.

Make sure to have some cheese with your whine.

This is far from a unique experience. It is well known thais will attempt to overcharge foreigners IF they think they can get away with it. Usually the thai person you’re with is reluctant to cause a problem and ask a question due to the ever present ‘face’ conundrum which governs most illogical behavior here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”. While this may seem like I am painting with a broad brush I have seen it happen too many times to count.

Then again finding food from อีสาน is rarely an ordeal here in Krung Thep, so another restaurant may be in order. If you want to eat there again, I would do as the poster Furbie suggested, ask for the menu, add up the prices and leave that exact amount.

I rarely if ever tip here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". Even in beer bars I'll take all the change off the tray; many times holding up the two 10 baht coins saying why isn't this a 20baht bill? Sorry I'm not on holiday, play those games with the 'tourists', not with me. When I am out with middle class thai friends, I hardly ever see them tip either, saying for normal service a tip isn't required.

I also pay taxi fares almost to the baht, and have waited many times to get into a taxi while the thai getting out dug in their purse for the exact change.

Do the thais think I am ขี้เหนียว? Thankfully I am NOT thai; it would then stand to reason; I can't 'lose face' either, so it is of less than no concern what they think about me.

To all the mindless foreign ‘sock puppets’ who live here and accept this type of behavior because "it is a poor country and their people make little in comparison to the west". I say; You may choose to become one with this xenophobic Borg-like; ‘we-b-thai’ collective, but I do not.

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I had LASIK done at Rutnin Gimbel Lasik Center about a year after moving here, so almost 2 years ago as of now.

I cannot speak highly enough of the staff, the doctors, and the treatment. Granted I am only 48; but have been nearsighted (for those somewhere other than the US; that means I couldn't see FAR), my entire life, and worn glasses since the first grade.

The initial consultation and testing was done professionally. The choices explained, the techniques available and the expected outcome all carefully gone over in flawless english not that b/s thi-engrish you get everywhere here.

Understanding most everybody will need reading glasses as they age is critical. It is the eye losing its elasticity to bend the lens for focusing on near things and is normal part of the aging process. They do have a treatment for older people to read w/out glasses, but predominantly LASIK is for correcting distance vision (meaning not for correcting reading vision).

In the package I selected, I had the correction done to both eyes, had follow-ups with the doctor at 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and at 1 year. Also should the need have arose they offered free surgical corrections to my vision during that one year time frame as well.

I have had my eyes tested at many eye clinics around Krung Thep and they test out at 20/15 for each eye. (Meaning I see at 20 feet what most people can clearly see at 15 or I have better than 20/20 vision).

While I didn't much care for the smell of burning flesh as the laser tweaked my corneas, it was a mild thing to put up with to have this great of vision.

I followed their post op care plan exactly and have NO haloing around streetlights, with headlights of oncoming traffic, or when driving in the rain. My eyes are not excessively dry, and it is refreshing to wake up in the morning with clear vision rather than reaching for glasses. The surgery was comfortable, pain free and the follow up care was excellent.

Different thicknesses of cornea require different surgical techniques. I could have had the choice of several. They said the more expensive one, where a laser cuts the cornea flap as opposed to a surgical blade guided by computer cutting it would not have resulted in any better vision. In other words they sold me the cheaper of the procedures.

I can't recommend Rutnin enough. BTW, I was NOT price shopping by any means, but still ended up with paying less than a quarter of what a friend in the US paid just last week.

As an aside, Dr. Uthai Rutnin was the person who made the first detailed drawings of the retina when he was at Harvard. That is the eye drawing you see in every eye doctor's clinic the world over. If you look at the bottom of the drawing you'll see it’s his.

As to the nay-sayer’s out there; ANY surgical technique can and does carry risks, from cutting your toe-nails to open heart surgery. Each person has to rate their internal paranoia level and reach their own decisions. The internet is a wonderful place, but unsubstantiated horror stories abound which have dubious merit. As with everything in life; each person has to weigh their perceived benefits over the risks.

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Thailand is an example of racism to the extreme. Unfortunately it is sooo ingrained into society from birth; I sincerely believe the thais can't see it exists at all.

It does however exist in every level of the society, in every workplace, in every school, in short everywhere. Be it status i.e.; financial niche in society, the color of their skin, their birthplace, their education level, or their accent when speaking 'official thai', it permeates the country. You would be hard pressed to find a society which so readily embraces racism. Of course it is all done with the infamous ‘thai smile’ along with the ‘national catch phrase’; ไม่เป็นไร..

The statement in the paper says it all quite succinctly; "Thailand would be in the FOREFRONT, of giving and protecting racial equality". I went back over several months of news archives but am hard pressed to find a more incongruent statement regarding the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”.

As an aside;

Thaigoon's infinite wisdom on all things thai are a source of great enjoyment & amusement. While I don’t sit on the edge of my seat with bated breath, I do enjoy perusing the posts for the ‘we-b-thai’ take on things. Granted, the constant lashing out at people with opposing viewpoints as well as the endless rhetoric does get old. However it is refreshing to know mindless sock puppets will not be added to the CITES endangered species list in the foreseeable future..