Tod Daniels

.....

Jesus H Christ, ......

Jesus Mary & Joseph, .....

For Christs sake.........

For Christs sake .....

And so endeth the sermon.

It seems Maigo has moved one step closer from believing other's shouldn't have views he doesn't agree with to claiming his own divine authority.

Is he Thai ?

No ,just a wannabee , he seems to forget that what (little?) intelligence he has came from a country OTHER than Thailand which enables him to THINK about what he writes , screaming bloody hel_l about some-one elses thoughts or points of view just because they are not in line with his own infers he is a borderline Thai nationalistic moron , shame realy , because he is quite a sage individual on some posts , even bordering on sanity .

I have rarely met a more dyed in the wool, "card carrying member" of the color coordinated shirt and matching bracelet wearing 'wanna-b-thai' faction than "Maigo6". It now seems from his previous post he has divine inspiration in his corner as well.

From time to time he will offer bits of wisdom and/or display intuitive intellect. However his endless soap-box rhetoric in ridiculing foreigners while defending the diminutive and ever so shallowly smiling inhabitants here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" can be a quite tough to plod thru (very nearly as tedious as my posts; which are based at the opposite end of the proverbial viewing spectrum).

While I am a foreigner and the political unrest affects me little, I am concerned that thais are fighting thais over differing views.

I am working on a t-shirt idea. It uses the Ying/Yang symbol but in red and yellow to show the two opposing factions.

Above the symbol I will put:

One country; thailand

One people; thai

Below the symbol I want to put:

Don't fight

Work together

As it is a t-shirt a wordy discourse is not practical. It has to be easily read by thais in passing, a snappy slogan-like sound byte if possible, and obviously gramatically correct.

This is what I have worked out in thai:

หนึ่งชาติ ชาติไทย

เราเป็นหนึ่งประชาชนชาวไทย

อย่าสู้กัน

ร่วมมือกัน

If anyone can tell me if the above actually makes sense and/or conveys closely the english I used initially, I'd appreciate it. Nothing worse than making a shirt that is unintelligible. ..

This topic has been beaten to death, only to rise from the ashes like a mythical Phoenix. You say farang, he says falang, for what ever reason. It's a worthless and pathetic point to argue about how to spell a thai word in English, but argue away as it shows your vast superiority.

BTW; No matter how poorly your (in)significant other pronounces it, learning to read thai script (even marginally) would immediately show that there is NO "L" in the word: ฝรั่ง. That being said; thais routinely blur their r's and l's. I have found a distinct correlation between education (or lack thereof) and the degree they slur the two letters. Even newscasters when they are in a heated discussion will slip up. It was such a big deal that the government launched a countrywide promotion several years ago with commercials, posters, and famous spokespeople trying to get the populace to speak their ร's and ล's distinctly.

Now without further ado: BACK ON TOPIC

For the most part, I take the term ฝรั่ง with a grain of salt, especially up country where foreigners are scarce as hens' teeth. However in the city, especially anywhere tourists are plentiful or congregate; I take it as either just plain rude and/or offensive, depending on the context in which it is used. Hearing it makes me listen to what ever they're chattering on about.

Unfortunately the O/P's initial posting, (which somehow got hi-jacked by the differing factions on the forum) shows that he was in a fairly up-scale (for thailand) area, and I believe there was actually NO reason to be labeled like he was.

If this is the worst thing you have to contend with in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" living amongst the ever smiling, yet diminutive inhabitants; you need to get out more or find a hobby, believe me.

I think the most important lesson America could learn about "thai democracy" (if there is such a thing) is:

Don't host a cooking show while your Prime Minister

Sadly given the information you have provided, I would guess she would be denied a Tourist Visa to the US.

First off, it has NOTHING to do with the shaky thai government and everything to do with the US one, as that's where you're wanting to go.

*She's self employed - does she pay tax?

*Small amount in the bank - how long as she had the account, does she run everything thru the account to show it is an active account, or is it just a small lump sum sitting there?

*She lives with her parents, at the same apartment - do they own it or rent it?

Despite your valid status here it doesn't mean you can't buy a ticket to the US tomorrow and bail out of thailand; so what are your "thais" here other than her?

Although I wish there was; sadly there is NO manpower to track down errant people who overstay their visa once in the US. The burden of proof is upon the applicant (your g/f) to prove she's gonna leave the US when her visa expires. She would have to demonstrate she has sufficient 'thais' to this country to return. Not owning any land, not owning a vehicle, not working for someone who will write a letter stating she can resume her job when she returns, not having much in the way of finances, can and do work against her.

I go to the US Embassy many times in a month and sometimes it looks like a bad nite in the Nana Hotel parking lot down there; the old fat guys in their cheap Singha Beer shirts with their much younger, tattooed "thai-in-tow" applying for a visa to go to the US. Believe me people are denied every day for different reasons, but most due to not sufficient "thais" here to guarantee a likely return when the visa expires. The reverse is true as well, and I know many thai friends who have visa's to the US, and have visited many times. They are usually married to US citizens, engaged in business, have tangible assets here which would ensure their return etc.

You're out nothing but time, effort and a little money to try to get her approved, so give it a shot. The rules are easily understood, the paperwork self explanatory (in english) and the procedures fairly straightforward. Above all, what ever you do, DON'T lie about anything they ask, believe me this isn't their first go-round and they can see thru deception.

Good luck, you might bounce your situation off Greg Lange of SunBelt Asia as they deal with this a lot. They will also tell you up front if you're likely to be approved or just pissing in the wind.

Saw it last Thursday, the day it opened in Bangkok. Mostly because I watched them film some of it at the Sheraton Grande & Soi Cowboy.

It wasn't a bad way to spend a mindless afternoon. Even on opening day it was just 140baht at The Emporium, so a bargain compared to going to a newly released movie in the US or UK.

Predictably Cage made all the typical "tourist" blunders; wai'ing everyone and their soi dog, choking on spicy thai food, speaking two-word-thai backwards, but for the most part it was well worth the $4US it cost to see it

I must concur that I was also amazed at the stuff the censors let slide thru. There was no "blur ball" obscuring guns, nudity with girls, or severed limbs spouting blood.

Unfortunately the trailers they were showing leading up to the movie had about every good action scene, so nothing really new. I thought it was a bummer he killed himself at the end too.

I'm looking forward to Tropic Thunder. ..

In my humble opinion; the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and their ever smiling yet diminutive population is NO different than the population of any other country in the world. To categorize men in a country as this or that is useless. It is the individual who is good or bad, crazy or sane.

I have had my interactions with less than desirable people in MANY countries. Tourist areas in any country are about the same. They are filled with people looking to take advantage of the tourists.

I associate more with more thai women but it's by virtue of my employment than by actual choice. For the most part the thai 'working class' (what ever their sex) I associate, interact and/or have gone out with have been fine people, just trying to make a living, and further their lives.

I do concur with the poster who mentioned once alcohol comes into the picture the ability to accurately predict a situation can go quickly out the window. However, this can be said for any culture or race of people, as alcohol is the great playing field leveler. It can bring out the worst of any nationality. Once your inhibitions are lowered, your perceptions skewed, and your mind numbed, people do/say things they would ordinarily keep inside.

Unfortunately I must disagree that all thai men be painted with the same brush. I have seen my share of "crazy foreign men" and their less than ideal antics here. Antics, I might add, which made me feel uncomfortable being a foreigner here. Believe me we are all tarred with the same brush until proven different. Stereotyping is a dangerous double edged sword (always hold it by the handle with the sharp end pointing away from you).

Then again, as I don't know the O/P nor where they 'hang out', I couldn't comment on validity of their observations. Just because it has not been my experience doesn't invalidate it as being theirs. (The O/P's reality may not be compatible with mine, but that's okay too.)

Nope, never found one.

I ended up buying my Keen's from Zappos-dot-com, had them shipped to a friend's addy in the US, then had 'em shipped to me here in Bangkok.

I did find a similar style to my Keen's made by Vasque here in Bangkok at a camping supply store.

Sadly, although I am loathe to quote the bible; which I believe is nothing more than a book of fairy tales, however you wanna read them, I must concur with the poster: "jetlock".

Or better yet, as Morgan Freeman summed it up so succinctly in the 2003 Stephen King movie; Dreamcatcher: "God is just an imaginary friend for grown ups..."

Try to see whatever you want to call the power that governs the universe is INSIDE you, not outside you, not wrapped in some book (no matter what book you happen to call your 'bible').

As an aside; I've always found the X-Files motto of: "TRUST NO ONE" to work well for me (your results may vary)

I concur that the issue needs to be addressed FIRST, and that you not wait until after the marriage to deal with it.

If the siblings are healthy, of working age, there's no reason they shouldn't work to support themselves, instead of "sponge off the foreign ATM", aka; foreign brother in law.

Emergencies are one thing and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Unfortunately; poor financial planning, frivolous spending or plain laziness would not constitute an emergency in my book, (your book may vary).

It is quite common for children to be cared for by a grandmother, and small stipends are often given for this reason.

Make sure your wife to be understands completely the limits (if any), the rules and will live within what you've previously agreed upon. It is an area that is fraught with peril in foreign/thai marriages, and there is NO downside to addressing it early in the relationship.

There is good advice from many posters in this thread, but remember the WORST 'vice' is advice, (mine included).

Getting a Non-Immigrant Type- ED (education) visa from Hull seems pretty straight forward.

This link is to their "Additional Pack for Education Visa":

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/pdfs/Ae%20%20...onal%20Pack.pdf

They DON'T require a letter from the Ministry of Education, ONLY a sponsor letter from whatever school you are enrolled in on their letterhead. They even post a sample sponsor letter so you get the wording right. It looks as if they will also issue multi-entry visas if it is requested in the sponsor letter.

From my experience they are currently the most "user-friendly" consulate in the world. The only 'down side' is; if you post your application it must originate & return to an address in the UK, but show up in person and you're out in under an hour nearly 100% of the time. They don't seem to care overly much what your nationality is. I'm American and got a Non-O there before, although NOT for education.

(Although as previous posters have stated; the fickle winds of fate in issuing visas could change at any time.)

*edited for spelling*

That is truly some rough stuff. The recovery process can be very long indeed after drinking an excessive amount.

I have found it more useful for stripping paint, fire starting, and as a weed killer.

This topic has been beaten to death, only to resurrect itself on this forum time and again.

I still stand by my original assessment that it isn't so much the word, as the context it is used which carries the derogative connotation.

Up-country, I don't even react to its usage as many people rarely see Caucasians other than on t/v. In any larger city, especially Bangkok, I interpret it as derogatory or plain ignorance on the part of the speaker.

I see some thais have weighed in with their satang's worth on this subject as well. The fact that they are even on an english language only forum, indicates their education level is much higher than the marginal ป๖ (Bpaw-Hok) education possessed by the majority of the population in this country. I believe their perceptions may be skewed due to their higher education, and/or their innate 'thai-ness'.

"The truth? You can't handle the truth. .." (quote from the 1992 movie A Few Good Men)

I am having difficulty in trying to convey the phrase "we both already know", as in a something which is common knowledge between the people conversing. Such as a fact which existed in the past, exists now in the present, and will continue to exist for some time in the future.

Can I use เรารู้แล้วอยู่ in that situation as a correct "we know already and are continuing to know" phrase? Also for this example consider the two people talking (one being myself) are the only ones present, which is why I didn't clarify "both" people by further designation and just left it as เรา. If I should identify the people even if it is understood by context, lemme know that as well.

I'm trying to get this language usage/structure right, but it is an uphill slog.

Any quick peruse of the english papers here about thais involved in altercations where they use a gun and are apprehended usually has the "the suspect was charged with unlawful possession of an unlicensed handgun". So while guns are common here the licensing of them seems to be less common.

Has anyone (other than me) noticed that it seems bullets are not that plentiful.

I watched thai news about a month ago where someone was arrested with 3 guns and had a whopping total of just 9 bullets. They were lined up on the table in front of the guns.

STOP MACING BEARS, next you'll be clubbing baby seals. ..

Maigo6 Now I see why you have 2,687 posts.

I'm just a lurker waiting to hurl insults at people cos I've nothing better to do with my day, I don't take it personal either.

It comes from all the time you spend in "lurking and hurling". <- which I hear has been recently approved as an Olympic sport.

BACK ON TOPIC:

Surprisingly I found the book; "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" to be instrumental in my interactions with thais. Before the wanna-b-thais get their panties bunched, I am NOT suggesting thais are children or should be treated as such (possibly the first pro-thai thing I've said on T/V) only that there are effective tools in the book which works on the ingrained thai mindset/mentality which can be used for a good outcome in a majority of situations.

Anyway, I can't be bothered to explain or spend much time on this. If you, a foreigner, think you know Thai, my mothertoungue better than me, then fine.

Work on those ESL skills, you're almost there

That would be "mother tongue" or seeing as you're thai: ภาษาแม่.

IF in fact you are thai, you would know already that the "f word" can be used in MANY contexts to denote a negative attribute, much as the word "thai" can be used by foreigners the same way.

I don't know what. .. ... (sorry, edited out the bullsh1t)

'neion2000'; what an insightful yet one sided moronic diatribe about how YOU happen to see the word ฝรั่ง, evidently while wearing your spiffy color coordinated shirt, matching bracelet as well as your rose colored glasses.

Sorry to burst your bubble; but ฝรั่ง (sorry no karaoke thai) can be either a non-judgmental comment denoting a foreigner, or it can be used with a negative connotation. It is decided by the CONTEXT (a big word for you I know, but try to keep up).

To the O/P:

Upcountry where foreigners are scare as hen's teeth I take it with a grain of salt, but in metropolitan Bangkok, especially anywhere there are likely to be tourists; I take it as either plain ignorance or offensive depending on what is said either before or after what I call "the F word".

In thai I once asked a person who called me ฝรั่ง if they liked me to call them a small, dark skinned asian or if they preferred to be called a thai. It made the point, and we chatted a good while.

Although this is off topic; I have a t-shirt I made up which quotes the tag line from the 1999 movie titled The Sixth Sense. Instead of "I see dead people" which is the actual tag line, my shirt says, "I see thai people". Unfortunately it's such an obscure reference that it takes an explanation for people to get the meaning, so the shirt loses points in that regard.

As far as ฝรั่ง goes; it's the context in which it is used that denotes the real meaning of this word.

I googled pages from thailand and got this

โรคคอตีบ

or the english version written in thai which I hope a doctor would know as well

ดิฟทีเรีย

I see the all resident pundits in socio-political science obviously with a specialty in S/E Asian studies have crawled out from under the carpet and weighed in with their 2 satang worth.

The insightful and discerning observations are truly mind wobbling, as are the helpful hints on what should be done. I for one, am certainly glad you're foreigners and have less than ZERO say in what actually happens in this country. Of course the witty dissertations and verbose language is a tedious read at times, as is plodding through endless posts of drivel by both the hawks and the doves.

Don't get your panties in a twist, let the diminutive ever smiling thais sort it out; after all it is their country, hence the appropriate name-> "thai-land". Also don't forget (depending on how you count 'em) the glorious "Land 'O Thais" has had at least 10 successful coups and 7 abortive attempts BEFORE the 2006 ouster of Thaksin. It's the status quo, so suck it up & deal with it.

You guys get keyed up way too easily. As the thais say, "Don't t'ink too mut"; everyone knows it can hurt your brain, IF you actually have one.

And this fascinating, albeit tiresome, read is about the glorious "Land 'O Thais" how again exactly? How this actually relates to thailand or anything thai for that matter is beyond me. Is it because you live here now and she is supposed to live here in the near future? If so, that's a tough stretch to be on a THAI forum don’t cha think?

Here's my salung's (25 satang, btw) worth;

At the end of the day, even if you are her husband, it's her decision alone, NOT yours.

I agree the only thing missing is a poll, quick someone p/m the O/P to start another mindless thread and put it to a vote.

*edited for spelling..*

Are you sure they just can't understand what you are saying. .. ...

You're obviously writing in some obscure form of english but even with english as my mother tongue I can't understand you most of the time.

BACK ON TOPIC

It's all water under the bridge now, as the O/P ventured out into the great wide open on his own during lunch and was not immediately cast out, nor been made a pariah (any more than foreigners in a predominantly thai workplace usually are).

I stand by my original statements that thais are conditioned in being polite out of brainwashing rather than out of any inherent desire.

Do what you want, they're only co-workers, NOT relatives, and have no bearing on you either positively or negatively evidently.

It also seems from the statement the boss made asking about where the other workers were, that they were "asked" (polite for being TOLD to do something) by the boss to include you so you didn't feel left out.

Glad you ventured out on your own. ..

As usual, more complete bigoted rubbish from toddy.....

I resemble that remark. ..

**WARNING** My version of reality MAY NOT be compatible with yours, deal with it**

It is just makes for good news. It serves NO purpose other than as a poster pointed out, to strengthen a case against the defendant.

It also makes for great sound bytes on thai television, not to mention great photo opportunities in the "comic books" which pass for thai language newspapers.

There is next to NO benefit to reenactments, which is why most countries don't do them any more.

I don't understand why you are upset. They ask you to lunch every day, so that means that they care. As far as not speaking English with you goes, they can be quite shy about that. They might be worried that their English is not good enough, or that they don't want to seem like show-offs.

Do not be confused by the 'wanna-b-thai' post I quoted.

The thais you work with DO NOT ask you to eat with them because they care about you one iota. They ask you because they are brainwashed by their alleged "culture" whic was crammed down their throats for generations. They are polite in interactions to a fault, and it is NOT out of any heartfelt courtesy on their part. It is much more reflexive thing than a conscious one, of that I am certain.

As far as the part that thais can be "shy" to speak english, that's about the understatement of the year. I have rarely met a people who exhibited so much reticence in speaking english than the ever smiling, yet diminutive inhabitants here. It certainly isn't because they "don't want to show off", as even the 'western educated' thais I've spoken with can barely string 5 words together to make a semi-cohesive sentence in english. They don't want to speak incorrectly and have a possible perceived loss of "face". Perception is ALL that matters to thais.

Thais are also very cliquish in their eating circles at the workplace. They will eat with the same people day after day, not because they are more comfortable with that group, but because all the brainwashing pawned off as culture about "who is superior, who is subordinate, has been hashed out eons ago. Adding new people to the mix forces them to reassess their totally inflexible and ultra regimented system of superior/subordinate.

Take the thais you work with, with a grain of salt, again, all they are is work associates, don't sweat it. These people will chatter on in their language oblivious to the foreigners present, without the slightest regard of your understanding or comprehension. It's not that they are intentionally rude, but they are most certainly a myopic lot for the most part.

To the O/P's last comment about having the thais be offended if he eats somewhere else, who cares. These are people you work with, certainly NOT your friends. If they had the slightest bit of intention to make you more than a work associate they'd have 'warmed' up to you by now.

IF they invite you to eat again, decline and eat where you want, with whom ever you want.

*edited for spelling*