Tod Daniels

Strange this topic came up as I just witnessed a similar incident on my Soi.

Just last week, down the street from my apartment there was a HUGE argument between a foreigner (sorry boycotting the word 'ฝรั่ง') and the thai landlady. It was soo loud that I'd walked out to see what was happening. She was really turning up the volume, ranting and raving. It seemed no resolution was going to be forthcoming.

To his credit the foreigner NEVER raised his voice only walked away after she’d gone back into her house and slammed the door. Evidently that’s when he called the Police district where I live, not the Tourist Police. The motorcycle showed up about 10 minutes later, a conversation ensued with the foreigner showing his paperwork, receipts etc. The officer went up and knocked on the landlady's door. As she opened it she paled noticeably and her demeanor was a 180 degree turn around of what had transpired minutes before, the wind had certainly gone out of her sails. She had morphed from the 'evil step mother' into 'princess charming'.

When I spoke to him after it was all said and done, he said she ended up refunding his full deposit but he agreed to have her hold back the amount of the previous month's utility bill which was in her name as the current one hadn't arrived yet.

I believe the Police may be the way to go, as you are out nothing by trying them.

I see no reason why a 'first worlder' or someone holding a passport from one of those countries would even consider using an 'agent' in Vientiane. It is NOT Penang Malaysia by any stretch of the imagination.

I just returned to Bangkok from there Tuesday afternoon getting my education visa and wrote a post here in the forum about my trip;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=159442

The Lao people on the street just in front of the Thai Embassy sell the forms, fill them out, make copies, and I believe even have a photo stall there for pictures. DO take an umbrella as they force you to stand in the sun until the embassy gate opens at 8:30, and again the following day until they open at 13:00 to get your passport back. Arrive EARLY, I got there at 7:50 and there were over 20 people in line with close to 150-200 in line by 8:30. Same for picking up your passport the following day, get there early.

Several people who were near me in line were there for tourist visas, and I mentioned they should write next to the Tourist Visa box you check either 'X-2' or '2 Entry'. They were all charged 2000 baht and the next day received their 60 day - double entry tourist visa. one girl from the Philippines in line was only charged 1000 even though she'd written '2 Entry' on the form, but I cannot tell you why.

Every person I spoke to in line who put '2 Entry' was given it without a bank book.

Your results may vary, but that's what happened on Monday the 17th and Tuesday the 18th.

Good Luck. ..

P/S: I attached (or tried to) the correct visa form for use at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, this is the weblink;

http://www.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/img/visa.pdf

Visa_Form_for_Thai_Embassy_in_Vientiane_Lao_PDR.pdf

I too have been struggling with vowel sounds that do not exist in the english language. They are the most difficult for me to remember and to repeat with any degree of regular consistency. I find myself stumbling over them time and again when speaking. I finally had a thai friend write down many of the difficult (for me) yet commonly used vowel sound words, and we review it several times a week.

I cannot post superscript letters so capital letters after the - denote tone in my transliteration, sorry.

I have found that between the words 'and' and 'with', I use กับ (gap-L) or 'with' far more than I use the word และ (lae-H) which is 'and'.

As far as thai foods like the omelet you mentioned. I have heard the thai word which in cooking means; inside of, filled with, or stuffed as in; ไข่สอดไส้ (khai-L saawt-L sai-F) สอด (saawt-L) meaning to insert or enclose although sometimes I have heard ยัด (yat-H) used insted of สอด (saawt-L) but always with food they have ไส้ (sai-F) meaning in this cooking context 'stuffed'.

I am about as far from a linguist as one can be, but have been trying to pay more attention to how thais use their words in food related contexts as it is quite interesting and descriptive.

On the word ไส้ (sai-F) I also use it when I say "I want the receipt IN the bag" rather than put under my change as thais do with you make a purchase;

เอา ใบเสร็จ ไส้ ถุง

ao-M bai-M set-L sai-F thoong-R

In this case I don't use an ending polite particle or 'softener' in the statement, as it is a firm request and compliance is not optional.

Good luck you're well on your way.

(edited for a pesky spelling mistake)

I thought I would give my opinion about the Walen School of Thai, as I am enrolled there to further my language studies

First and foremost it is NOT a visa service, but a real honest to goodness thai language school where you learn to read and speak thai. True, it does offer you an education visa based on enrollment hours/classes, but it is a language school BEFORE all else. I doubt they would put the time and effort I have seen them personally expend to get your paperwork from the Ministry of Education, IF they were running a 'visa service' rather than a language school. It is not an easy process for them and much leg-work is involved. There are far less bureaucratic paperwork intensive methods for acquiring visas than this method. I just returned from Vientiane Tuesday nite with my Non-O-ED visa using their paperwork and it was as painless a procedure as anything can be dealing with thai bureaucracy.

About the school; it is certainly NOT for everyone, (especially not for anyone looking for a quick-fix for their visa woes to circumvent the 30-day stamp, or tourist visa rules in place now).

The material in the lesson book is well written, the visual aids are an adjunct to the learning, the teacher(s) professional, they enunciate thai words clearly and have no problem making a student repeat a word many times to 'catch' the correct tone. There is constant review of previously covered material to help with retention of words, and new material is covered thoroughly. The students in my class are a diverse mix of many differing nationalities, and yet all seem to genuinely want to learn thai. Classes are fun, dynamic, and not the canned lessons parroted out by disinterested instructors I have seen at other schools.

Because the lesson book is in thai, it is very easy for 'home study'. Some schools which teach spoken thai via transliterated english spelling of thai words are very difficult to study with outside the classroom environment. I have yet to meet a single thai person who is familiar with or can read english transliterated thai words with any proficiency. With the lesson book from the Walen School, any thai friend you might have can read along, prompt you for correct pronunciation, making in home review and study very easy to accomplish.

I would again caution someone who is thinking of this school as merely a quick fix for their visa woes to give it a pass. You will be doing the students who genuinely want to learn to read/speak the thai language a terrible disservice.

That being said; IF you sincerely want to learn the thai language, I would stop by the school, talk to Mac Walen, take the free lesson offered, and look into it further. I have toured, taken lessons, and talked with directors of more thai language schools than I care to remember. This is the one that works best for me. To each their own, good luck in your language acquisition endeavors.

For what it’s worth, I concur with the previous post by gzu88bv.

I was just at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane on Monday for my Education Visa. A German man behind me in line was applying for a Non-O Visa based on marriage. I didn't notice what supporting documentation he had with him, sorry to say.

On Tuesday when he picked up his passport he did get the Non-O visa but it was only a single entry. He was told at the counter to apply for an extension in Thailand at his nearest immigration office.

Here's the break down of my Visa Run to Vientiane for my thai education visa.

Expenses

2600฿ - R/T Flight BKK/UTH

175฿ - Taxi 2 Suvarnabhumi

150฿ - Minivan UTH airport to Border @ Nong Khai

1206฿ - Lao Visa (I paid $36US as it is $1US more to enter Lao on the weekend)

20฿ - Bus across Friendship Bridge

100฿ - Border to Vientiane

1340฿ - Guest House 2 nites

100฿ - Tuk-tuk R/T Thai Embassy

2000฿ - Thai ED Visa

100฿ - Tuk-tuk Hotel/Embassy/Border

150฿ - Minivan Border to UTH Airport

220฿ - Taxi Suvarnabhumi to Home

8161฿ - TOTAL (plus food)

(I used 33.5฿ to $1US as my conversion figure.) I took US dollars, Thai baht and changed money into Kip, but they accepted any currency without problem in Vientiane.

I left last Sunday from Suvarnabhumi to Udon Thani via Air Asia, and returned Tuesday evening. The expenses don't include food costs, or 'entertainment', but the guest house I was at had a really decent free breakfast, and good food was to be had easily.

It was allegedly 'high-season' in Vientiane (although if that was high season I don't wanna see low season). Three of the guest houses which were recommended from the T/V forum were full. It was getting late in the evening and I took a double room at the 4th guest house I tried, which was $8US more a nite, so my costs could have been lower.

I paid too much for the tuk-tuk, to/from the guest house/embassy, but the street I was on the drivers sure knew they had me in a time sensitive situation to get to the embassy. They were pretty consistent with their pricing and I walked all the way down the street asking different drivers, and stopped two tuk-tuks who were going by as well.

The Thai embassy is run with a typical thai mentality. They make you stand outside in the sun with no shade, in a disorderly queue until the gates open at 8:30. I got there at 7:50 and there were already 20+ people in line, and by 8:30 it stretched down the street, I estimate over 150-200 people.

Once the gate opens you make you way to the covered area where you turn in your paperwork. There was absolutely NO reason we could not have waited there to begin with but it is a thai thing which means it is beyond any reason.

Lao people are standing outside selling visa forms, making copies, photos, etc, and telling people what they needed as well. Still TOO many people got to the front of the line without the proper documents, and it slowed things down as they jumped out to fill out paperwork then jumped the queue back in.

They gave fairly good check of your paperwork when you turned it in. That worried me as I'd made all my copies at home BEFORE I left so didn't have the exit stamp from Thailand or the Lao Visa in my copies, but they didn't question it at all.

Several people near me in line were there for tourist visas, and I told them to write 2 entry’s beside the check mark. They were all charged 2000฿ and the next day received 2 entries good for 60 days each. You're certainly not out anything for trying it, and you'll know when you pay inside if you get a double entry if they charge you 2000฿ baht instead of 1000฿.

After turning in your passport, visa application and supporting documents it was off to the office (w/air-con, a plus!) to wait for your name to be called. There was another typical thai mentality 'reverse order scheme’ being used; where the passport turned in last was on the top of the pile and called first inside the office. Many unhappy campers were waiting for their name to be called. Pay, get a receipt, and leave.

The next day they open the gate at 1PM. I got there at noon and there were again 20 people in line. Stand outside in the blistering sun (you could make money renting umbrellas!!). Just before 1PM they bring the passports from the office in big plastic tubs to the covered area, where we turned in our paperwork the day before. At 1PM the gate opens and you make your way to the double line to get your passport. Make sure your receipt from the previous day is handy, as people hunting thru their bag for it slowed the line down again. CHECK that your thai visa is correct BEFORE you leave the desk and you're done.

Left the thai embassy and went directly the border and caught a minivan on the Lao side back thru the thai border and on to the Udon Thani Airport. I received my 90 day stamp when I entered the glorious "Land 'O Thais". I arrived at the Udon Thani AIrport with 90 minutes to spare before the flight was scheduled to board. The flight was late getting in so we took off 20 some minutes after the scheduled departure time.

In Vientiane the food was good; prices are cheap, great breads, rolls, baguettes, etc. I was surprised to see SO many foreign families with children in and around Vientiane as I didn't think Lao PDR was high on any most touristy destination list. Although I don't drink, for what it’s worth I was told the bars close at midnite promptly and people make their way to either a big dance club in a very fancy big hotel or several other dance or music clubs. I was also told the prices go up precipitously in those clubs after midnite for beer, but cannot confirm this information.

On the riverfront the water in the Mekong was WAYYY low with 100+ meters of mud on the Lao side before you got to water, but at the Friendship Bridge it was flowing better.

I will add this; having lived in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" for just over 3 years, I can say without a doubt the people in the Lao PDR were far friendlier, more willing to engage you in conversation in english, thai or lao. They spoke english better (easily by a factor of 10) than the thai people here in Bangkok. They also seemed to smile with their hearts not just their faces like the thais tend to do. None of the people I spoke with were reticent about speaking in english and it seemed they weren’t at all concerned about losing face for not speaking correctly as so many thais I know are.

That's the report. All in all a much enjoyed painless trip; except of course in dealing with the thai , but I tolerate their idiosyncratic behavior as I choose to live in their country. I have every intention of going back to Vientiane for 4 or 5 days to really see the place.

"Thai's don't let Thai's vote drunk"

A ‘thai-take’ on the US anti-drunk driving slogan from a couple years ago of; 'friends don't let friends drive drunk'.

I was at Tesco Thursday and alcohol was being sold in nearly every cart in there, sometimes it was ONLY alcohol piled high in the cart. Not drinking alcohol, this doesn’t impact me either way, good or bad, although I saw the paper the bar owners were given with the dates and times of the ban last week.

It is quite a role reversal for the native inhabitants of the glorious "Land 'O Thais" with their usually oh-so reactive society. It would seem when things have a direct impact on their lives they seem to be able to figure it out well in advance, while the foreigners are behind the curve.

Thanx for the good information, I'll certainly look into taking the train back to BKK from Nong Khai as it seems less time sensitive.

I read the 10th was a holiday and the embassy was closed, but the flight arrives in Udon late in the afternoon on the 10th, so I'd planned to do visa things on the morning of the 11th. I don't know if that is asking for problems or not after they've been closed for a 'long weekend'.

Perhaps adjusting the days would work out better. Thanx again,

Anyone received a visa from the Thai Embassy in Vientiane recently. I am tentatively scheduled to go up there to get an education visa on the 10th of December.

I wondered if it's possible to fly BKK to UTH (Udon Thani), take a mini bus to the border, cross the bridge, get to Vientiane, turn in my passport the following morning, pick it up the day after that at 1:00 and make it back to Udon Thani in time to catch the 17:40 flight back to Bangkok?

The big question is; Is assuming you get your passport back close to 1PM, is 4 plus hours enough time to get from the Thai Embassy in Vientiane back to Udon for the flight back?

I realize I could easily stay another day in Vientiane, but the Air Asia flights from Udon to Bangkok leave the same time every day at 17:40 and I'd just as soon beat it back to the big city if possible.

I searched the forum and found hotels to stay at, what to do, not to do, but the timing is critical on this fast turn around trip, and that’s why I’m asking.

Anyone who’s recently received a visa from the Thai Embassy in Vientiane (no matter the type) is welcome to respond.

Thanx in advance for any information. ..

http://www.thai-language.com/?ref=spacing

I found the above link and information it contains very helpful in the spacing and/or breaking of thai words/sentences.

While I am sure it is not foolproof, it provides some valuable insight.

"I've noticed that farang seem to really love these illusions of wild, corrupt, lawlessness. the way the OP writes his story, you can tell that it is fictionalized."

Your incredible powers of psychic or (psychotic) discernment into something you didn't witness amaze me.

On the original subject;

I have seen all too many pickpockets in the tourist areas especially Sukhumvit. What ever their skin color; white, black, brown, yellow, red, thieves are thieves.

Good on the original poster to have thwarted an attempt.

Something I will add although it may be slightly off this topic;

I wanted to learn to read with higher comprehension, although I can read most things if I take the time.

I found that typing/transcribing thai from published books, (albeit children's books) into a Word document was the best thing I could do to increase my recognition in written vocabulary. The keyboard set up in thai to put it mildly is 'rather unique' with some frequently used characters in obscure rarely used areas of the keyboard for people used to typing english (ข, ช, ล, ผ as examples). How many times does a person type a dash, an equal sign, a right bracket, or the letter z in english typing?

Initially learning to type/transcribe was very labor intensive. I'd see the first character of the first word in a book, hunt around the keyboard a minute for it and move on. Now after typing just a couple times a week I've almost got type by touch down and can type more words from memory every day. The keyboard is becoming second nature and the auto correct ability to change vowels if you mis-type is great. Now using the shift function and reaching out of the way characters is becoming easier each time I type. Additionally, my pc seems to have a pretty good spell checker built into Word, and catches simple mistakes well.

As was mentioned in a previous thread; people learn to read competently in their native language by recognizing letter patterns which make up common words. Once they have that down they do not sound out words letter by letter anymore.

In my opinion the typing/transcribing of printed materials in thai has been the biggest adjunct in increasing my ability to recognize written words far easier, gave me a better sense of sentence structure and increased my vocabulary as well.

Air Asia has done wonders with their promotional fares, and plans for more routes. That being said, they are known as a “budget carrier”; and as a previous poster mentioned, in the business to make money, be it by prohibitive penalties to change cheap tickets, over-weight surcharges, or what have you.

IF you buy a promotional fare, READ the fine print. Most carriers have a no refunds policy on their cheapest price point tickets, as well as prohibitive penalties for changing times/dates after you've purchased them.

I've flown Air Asia many times, and have had occasion to change my flight times, etc. It was often cheaper to buy another ticket rather than change the itinerary of the promotional priced ticket I already held.

As to the comment about the "easy-on-the-eyes" air hostesses, I just read in the Nation Newspaper this morning that Malaysian politicians critized the uniforms worn by Air Asia's flight attendants saying; "the skirts were too short and exposed the wearers' genitals".

Love 'em or hate 'em, I agree, they've opened affordable air travel in Asia to the masses.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dq/animal.htm

The above link (which may not show but is www-dot-cdc-dot-gov) is the link concerning importation of pets into the US. It has a warning that specific states may also have regulations which control the importation of pets into that state. I'd google the state you're going to end up in and see if there are regulations concerning the importation of pets from abroad.

Good luck,

Thai-language dot com shows the word as;

ตุ๊บป่อง - dtoopH bpaawngL - adverbial idiom used to describe someone who is filled with petulance [or something filled with gas or air; floatingly]

It also has;

งอนตุ๊บป่อง - ngaawnM dtoopH bpaawngL - to be infused with petulance (sulkiness, bad temper, ill humor, irritability, peevishness, pique, sullenness) so much that he or she could float or fly

Thai2english dot com has a different meaning of the initial word;

ตุ๊บป่อง – (bobbing) up and down

I have in the past seen the two sites differ (widely) on word meanings

Given the OP's context in his post, I would lean towards thai-language's definition.

Also thai-language has a pretty extensive collection of sound files (ตุ๊บป่อง; being one of them). I’d play it for your fiancée and see if it rings a bell.

It is listed as an adverb, and given thais penchant for regularly doubling adjectives/adverbs to in essence double the degree of modification, I think it is what he is being called.

As I have not been able to find a close thai approximation to the word; ‘cranky’

I will try to say this ‘new’ word enough to imprint it into my vocabulary.

Thanx

I have two Somali cats from the US that have been here with me for almost 3 years. I used to get Iams Adult Dry Cat Food from a petshop near my house (Sukhumvit/Asoke). They don't carry it anymore. I use Thonglor Vet Hospital for my cats health needs, but they are out. Any ideas where I can get it here in Bangkok?

Please; before anyone posts anything negative about Iams. I worked in the Veterinary Field in the US for over 10 years, ran a chain of veterinary hospitals in the western US, and two top quality Catteries which housed over 200 cats. Every place fed Iams exclusively. I believe in Iams and would rather not switch them to Science Diet.

I know Iams and/or Science Diet are both top quality pet foods. I am not interested in any conjecture about holistic, natural or raw diets. I need Iams Dry Adult Cat Food.

Any help is appreciated, any negative remarks are not.

Living near and walking thru Times Square every day, I've had the occasion to stop into the Walen School many times, as well as speak with Mac at length.

He has a very good idea for teaching the thai language. That version of language teaching is not a new concept in teaching english as a foreign or second language, and I have used it in the Southwestern United States teaching english to hispanics. I would imagine Mac’s method of teaching thai may initially be disheartening to someone who doesn’t know at least a little about the thai alphabet, vowels, or toning system, but the exposure to thai words, sentence structure is invaluable. As I can read most things already, I wasn't all that put off by the book. I have a large vocabulary of thai words, although being self taught speak with atrocious tones. I can say almost anything I want but am forced speak very sa-low-ly or a thai will rarely take the time to understand me.

A friend who's lived here 25+ years and who speaks with the fluency I only dream of having told me the thai language is a three legged stool, vocabulary, sentence structure and tones. Missing any one of those ‘legs’ leaves you balanced precariously. I am most definitely balancing on two legs of the stool right now language wise.

I had the chance to take a free lesson at the Walen School. During the lesson the teacher mercilessly pounded me on proper tones. She had no qualms about making me repeat a word until I got it correct. My clarity of speech on the words we covered went up quite a lot. The teacher was professional, and spoke very clearly. The only problem I had was; in learning thai from a female speaker I found myself raising the pitch of my voice to match her voice. I had to mentally remind myself to speak in my normal timbre and pitch. I know male friends who can speak thai and use a higher pitch than when they speak english and now attribute this to perhaps them learning thai from a female teacher. The lesson plan was well designed, the book a no frills lesson book, with thai words spaced out instead of run together as they normally are. It made learning compound words easier, as they are already grouped together. I felt time and effort had been put into developing both the teaching style and learning materials.

I have tried classes at more thai language schools than I care to remember; each time being forced/coerced into learning a useless transliteration system to simply get thru the lesson book. I felt it a complete waste of effort as NOTHING is EVER spelled that way here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". I also believe that spending time at AUA's thai language course where you sit and watch two thai people interact, don't participate, and can 'magically' speak after many hundreds of hours is a waste of time to a person unfamiliar with the language basics. You will sit thru many hours of class in a coma-like stupor. You would probably do better watching thai soap operas each nite as at least they 'mime' or 'telegraph' their actions better than the AUA 'teachers' do. That being said, once you have some language skill I think AUA's method price-wise is a valuable adjunct to learning better thai language skills.

Although I am not enrolled in the Walen School (yet), FWIW I recommend it. It is my belief that speaking and reading this language will open far more doors in this country than simply speaking. The ED visa issue has been beaten to death on this post. I checked with several other thai language schools about their pricing to qualify for an ED visa versus hours of lessons given, and materials used. It seems that the Walen School offers a very competitive price. In defense of Mac’s school; they are trying to make it easier to qualify for the ED Visa, as well as provide a good quality of thai language lessons. The questions I had for Mac concerning the ED Visa, lessons, etc have always been answered clearly, quickly, and I don't think I have met a person more "pro-thai" since coming here over 3 years ago.

In my circumstances; with my third Non-O Visa expiring in December, their school works out to about the same cost as my return flight to the US to get another Non-O, even factoring in leaving the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” to get the ED Visa stamped into my passport in a neighboring country. The extension of stay on the ED Visa works out as slightly less than a visa run with most ‘farang’ oriented companies. I also get 180 hours worth of thai language lessons as well; something I wouldn't get by flying to the US, getting another Non-O and doing 90 day visa runs for the next 15 months.

Each person learns differently, some like the transliteration method (Unity, Pro Language, etc) some like AUA's method of ALG (Automatic Language Growth), some prefer to learn from their (in)-significant others or in bars.

I say to the advocates of each camp; Up-2-U

Unfortunately from what I have seen; critical thinking, thinking outside the box, realizing there actually is a box to think inside or outside of, foresight or planning ahead, seem to not be strong areas of interest to the inhabitants in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

The two words; "thai logic" are at best an oxymoronic term; canceling each other out completely in my opinion. I have yet to run across such an animal here. Then again it could be a horse of a different color, elusive, and hard to spot.

Please realize; I am not enamored by, enchanted with nor endeared to this culture in the slightest. I am as far from the "we-b-thai" faction on this forum as I possibly could be.

WARNING: My version of reality might not be compatible with yours.

When I moved here in late 2004 early 2005 I used a mover from the US which contracted with a Thai shipper. I had my handmade bedroom furniture, office equipment, tons of cat furniture for my two cats and far more household stuff than I needed shipped out here.

The shipper here said I would have to pay around 1200 baht on the shipment and that customs might “open a box or two to check”. I figure I had over $20,000US in value of the stuff I brought here. Once it cleared customs, the company brought everything out, uncrated it, put it in the rooms I wanted it in.

All in all it was the most flawless international move I ever did. Compared to Brazil, Dominican Republic, and Peru it was a piece of cake here.

I concur with the advice of earlier posters to use a known international shipper here. They are all too familiar in how much “grease to give the wheels to stop squeaks”. Santa Fe, Asian Tiger, or just Google shippers here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and call around to see what prices you get.

As my stuff was shipped container freight it did take close to 8 weeks to arrive at my home here after leaving the US. That included a week in customs while the shipper hashed out the 'import fee', which was 1200 baht as they stated initially.

Good Luck

The information you gave about your relationship actually provides very scant evidence of why she would return to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" IF the visa was granted.

*Previous job in massage parlor (even Wat Po style)

*No job for over 1 1/2 years

*No ownership of land, home

*No business interest in this country

I didn't see how much she had in her thai bank account, or how long it was in there but it could also be a factor. I would agree with the other posters; leave out the US Brokerage account. It could be argued she could/would use the money to remain in the US after her visa expired.

You don't mention her education or grasp of English language skills. If she's finished M-6 (high school) it could be a plus, but not necessarily. Education is something they do look at, even on-going or continuing education. I know one visa that was granted based on the need to return to this country to resume study in a private school. It could be the exception rather than the rule, I dunno.

Having matching visa's to India (another third world country); while novel, does little to prove she would not overstay after arriving in a real first world country.

REMEMBER: The burden of proof is on HER (you) to show that she has 'sufficient thais' to this country to return at the end of her visa, and NOTHING else. They don't care if she's a good person, if the Sun & Moon revolve around her, or if she is the light of your life. They want to know she'll leave the US when it's time for her to go. The trick is to prove to them she will leave. The embassy staff operates from the all too valid premise that a person from a third world country will most likely overstay their visa. You must prove that will not be the case.

I have cause to visit the American Embassy quite regularly, and believe me it is a motley crew of too old of men with their all too young (in)significant others in tow. Sometimes it looks like the parking lot of the Nana Hotel. I will concede your ages have little disparity, but that is what you're up against. I believe the marriage visa could probably be your best bet but even it may prove sketchy.

Above all, when you are there DON'T let it get personal; don't get mad, rant, etc. It has absolutely nothing to do with you, nor are they singling you out for different treatment. It is just about her and their perception her likelihood of returning to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" when the visa ends. For the most part it is pretty much a by the book, by the letter, deal in the granting of visas. Officers do have discretion but will NOT go out on a limb to approve a sketchy applicant if she doesn't meet the requirements; no matter how heart warming or wrenching their story may be.

Read everything you can on the US Embassy site, and this forum about the requirements. Good Luck, let us know how it works out.

What ever school you eventually go to or by what ever method you choose to learn; by all means do not buy into anyone's philosophy of teaching you "parroted" phrases spit out at break neck speed. This technique is rampant and does a huge disservice to a student by not teaching individual words. It gives you next to no idea how to make other phrases with the words you learn. I have found a few words spoken clearly even with marginal tones will go much further than a mouthful spit out in a blur of unintelligible gibberish.

It is unfortunately this exact way thais have been taught English. Hence their response to the question; "How are you?" Ask 10 thais this question and you'll most likely get the run-on sentence; "I-m-fie-thak-you-an-you?" They were taught this as a group of words, so can rarely break them down for further usage in sentences.

In my studies I have realized this language is nearly impossible to translate word for word. The biggest problem I had was learning that groups of words in thai had not so much a literal word-for-word meaning but that they conveyed a 'concept' or 'idea'. There are however, more similarities than differences between thai and English in the concept groupings of thai words convey in context.

When I was first learning thai; I would take something a thai said, then inside my head do the following:

*translate it word for word into English

*re-order the words for English context

*try to figure out <deleted> they were actually saying

*formulate an appropriate response in English,

*translate & reorder the response back into thai

*finally; reply to them

As one might imagine; I was certainly not running with a Pentium Processor doing that. I was able to converse albeit quite slowly. I did get quite good at saying "Give me a second, I am thinking."

In my interactions with the inhabitants here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" just under 20-25% of the things spoken by thais have little or no information to add/detract from something they are saying. You can discount just about any sentence ending which isn’t a time marker, doesn't denote a question, or imply a response is needed. Their seemingly endless uses of polite particles, sentence softeners, as well as hypothetical endings are not needed to know what they are actually saying. Most of them are part of the ever-present "face saving", or what I think of as the "let's have a harmonious interaction even if I am lying thru my teeth to you" mindset, and can be discounted outright without sentence context degrading one iota.

When someone is speaking to me, I listen first for the verbs and verb order in multiple verb sentences, then for time markers for sequence of events and finally objects being spoken about. I can usually glean what they are saying with pretty high proficiency and accuracy.

Again, I sincerely wish anyone undertaking the oh-so arduous task of learning to understand, speak and/or read this language the best of luck. It is not something you will wake up one day and suddenly know. It is a continual process akin to building a bridge one stone at a time across a raging river. Some stones get washed away and need to be replaced, but some do not. Before you know it you can walk across the river and visit the inhabitants on the other side. My language skills have progressed immensely, and I feel while there may not be a suspension bridge across the ‘river’ yet, there is at least a footpath. To quote Robert Frost; “and that has made all the difference”.

P/S: I am NOT bitter; quite honestly I enjoy my life here immensely. I realize my version of reality is NOT compatible with everyone else’s and I am fine with that. I accept and tolerate the inhabitants here for the simple fact it is their country, and I play by their rules, just as in my country they play by mine.

Just to show you I do have the true spirit of “all things thai” here;

ขอให้โชคดีตลอดชีวิต

*Edited twice for spelling*

The illustrious "Immersion Method" for learning the language here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" is a double edged sword. For the people who have real jobs, NOT the degree-less starving english teachers; getting to interact with people who speak anything remotely close to 'high register' thai is difficult. Foreigners married to lower class, or uneducated thais will certainly learn to communicate at that social level of the language and it is apparent to every person spoken to whether the thai acknowledges it or not. Do not be duped by the ever smiling sheep-like sock puppets that populate this country and will most likely understand, encourage, and parrot the phrase; พูดไทยเก่งมาก. All too often, in reality, the thai spoken by foreigners is not much more than “street thai”, “two-word thai”, or “bar-gurl thai”. When I hear a foreigner speaking thai I can immediately distinguish whether that person learned from a Prathom-6 drop out, or if they learned in a different social context, be it at a school or at work.

The "Pub/Wife/(in)significant other method of learning can also be fraught with disaster. Many times that person doesn't really want you speaking or understanding thai to the degree you can decipher what is being said around you all the time. The inhabitants of the glorious "Land 'O Thais" take great comfort and pleasure in hiding behind their language barrier. I have found once they know it is not the "security blanket" they thought it was, they actually become somewhat 'normal' in their interactions with you.

After touring too many schools to count and taking free lessons at more places than I can remember; for me the method of learning by transliteration was a waste of time. Unfortunately this country has no official government sanctioned standardized version of transliteration which can show the subtleties of the tones in thai. Benjawan Poomsan Becker seems to be the most consistent with the transliteration in all the books, but again it's a crutch that once you have gleaned the understanding of the thai alphabet, vowels, and tone marks becomes totally useless.

I recommend for beginners to concentrate on learning the most frequently used verbs, and tense marking words. To the people who profess thai is a single tense language; I say you know next to nothing about thai. It may be true the thai verbs don't conjugate like English verbs do (where it changes words with the tense) but thai has a plethora of time marking words. Words which denote if an action is forthcoming, already happened, currently happening, will happen soon, might happen, ought to happen, must happen, as well as markers showing if the action is coming towards or moving away from the speaker.

My advice to anyone wanting to learn this language, tour as many of the schools as you can, take all the 'free' classes they offer, and pick one which suits your learning style. I hear too many foreigners, who've been here for years, fall back on the "I'm tone deaf", "I'm too old", etc. The real answer is probably NOT that they can't learn thai, but that the way it was being taught wasn't conducive to their learning style. Don't fall into the trap of convincing yourself it is simply beyond you to learn, because one school's format didn't "click" with you.

Good luck, I will concede the fact that this is a rich interesting language, full of subtleties, innuendos, and double entendres. Unfortunately that doesn’t change the fact it is a one country language with little practical application to the real world outside the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Some very interesting yet off-topic rants about the virtues of the incredibly healthy food available here (NOT!!), added to the usual grandstanding about the plight of the uneducated, poor, oppressed thai people from the "we-b-thai" faction.

In other somewhat more on topic news;

I had to go to the main Post Office here in Bangkok last week to get a package. After watching them dump bags of letters on the floor, use snow shovels to scoop them into trash barrels and then trundle them off to some undisclosed location for sorting, I am amazed ANY letters or packages get delivered here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

When I went to the counter to pick up my box, I was told in maimed mangled english there was an import fee. I knew already books were exempt from import fees if they are for education. I stated this in coherent thai to the guy behind the counter and he immediately lost the smile worn by most natives in this country. I have found once they don't have the language barrier to hide behind they lose a LOT of their holier than thou attitude. I then asked if he wanted a problem I could talk to his superior, which made him relent and give me my box of books. He then tried to hit up the Japanese girl behind me in line for a 'fee' as well. Seeing as I was still standing about a foot away checking my book order, I intervened on her behalf and she got her box sans 'customs fee', which I am sure was just like the extortion attempt he tried on me.

My advice to anyone wanting to live here with these ever smiling mindless sock puppets with anything resembling a trouble free existence is;

Learn to speak more than two-word-thai, speak direct, don't use polite, softening or hypothetical particles at the end of sentences, try to ask questions that make the person you're speaking to have to give an answer, and always use direct eye contact. They are much more accommodating, albeit still surly and with the undercurrent of resentment so prevalent here towards foreigners.

As to the ever present "We-B-Thai" faction who extol the culture and the endless virtues of this country like its “Paradise Lost”; take off your rose colored glasses, see this place for what it really is, and these people for who they really are.

You are unlikely to find anything closely resembling the true account of thai history inside the glorious "Land 'O Thais". You are far more likely to find books on it outside the country which bear at least a semblance of the truth. Inside the country you are only able to get books which do not stray far from the "officially sanctioned" version.

Thais are oh-so selective in their perception and the memory of their country's history. I have also found them for the most part to take offense easily to anyone who might challenge "thai history according to thais". Just last week I was nearly in a shouting match with a fairly educated thai who too offense that I mentioned the King (note the respectful capitalization), is an American by birthright. They insisted he was born in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", when in fact he was born just outside of Cambridge Massachusetts. Straying away from the forbidden topic of the monarchy, I have found most thais grasp of history even as recent as WWII is sketchy at the very best.

You have to realize history is written by the winners. I believe the last big 'win' the glorious "Land 'O Thais" had was when they pushed the Burmese back into their country after they sacked Ayutthaya in the 18th century. There are many internet sites which have at least some measure of truth in them but I would shy away from any site written by a thai national or hosted in this country as they will most likely have only the ‘for public consumption’ version.

If you are out of the country I would pick up the 'banned' book, whose name cannot be mentioned. It is definitely an interesting read and certainly makes for some thoughtful reflection on all things whacky and wonderful going on inside the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”.

IF you know going into the game you have to watch your baht 24/7, never believe a thing out of their mouths, and don't ever take the old stand by "mai-bphen-rai" as an excuse for anything, you can live here relatively trouble free.

I freely admit I am not enchanted by, enamored with, or endeared to this 'culture' of Borg-like sock-puppets in spiffy color-coordinating shirts. I am going on my third year here and in no danger of EVER thinking anything of the sort about the natives that inhabit this country. I think to the best of my knowledge that puts me firmly NOT in the 'we-b-thai' camp nor wearing their ever present rose colored glasses.

In other news; I was short changed at Tesco the other day by exactly 500baht. I got the usual brainless stare when I said in thai the change was not correct. I was also holding the receipt and the change in my hand. I asked for the manager; received more blank stares, with the cashier throwing expectant looks at the people waiting in line behind me. As I wouldn't leave the register she finally got the line manager to come over. I explained the problem, again in thai, and she begrudgingly ran the tape on the register, counted the till. Low & behold there was my 500 baht change IN the register. Did she apologize? She spoke not a single word, gave me not a glance at me, just handed me the 500baht and left the register. That is typical for catching people in mistakes here, the ever popular 'face-saving' routine. I just stick to my guns, and make them do what I want. I never raise my voice, never show emotion on my face, but speak very direct, very abrupt thai, leaving out any polite particles, or hypothetical words in what I say.

Speaking thai helps alleviate a lot of issues, but it is far from the life changing free pass to inter-species communication I thought it would be. Often I'll force them to speak english and listen to the thai banter between them before responding to the now group of workers babbling in thai. Mostly to cause them consternation when they realize I can understand, but often to just see what they say when they think they can hide behind their language.

NEVER EVER hesitate to make someone whose job is taking your money to focus on actually doing their job here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". I am sure in tourist areas the rip offs are higher, and adding alcohol into the mix only worsens the chances of that happening.

To the “we-b-thai” faction, who say it was ONLY 5 baht, seeing as it was NOT your money, pray tell where do you suggest the line should be drawn? Wait, let me guess, the poorly educated, poorly paid, impoverished people in this pissant developing third world country need all the help they can get. Of course, let's allow them steal from us too.