Tod Daniels

Quite the witty come backs.....errrr NOT

The phrase "accept it or leave it" and its sister phrase 'you are a guest here behave yourself or go home' are all too often thrown about by the "wanna-b-thai" foreigners living here.

I am sorry to inform you 'mate' that good behavior does not hinge on mindlessly embracing the culture of the country one lives in. Just as a foreigner acting like a thai doesn't make them more thai or even more accepted by thais.

IF a country's cultural brainwashing runs counter to one's own cultural upbringing it can be detrimental to change. I have absolutely NO desire to be 'more thai', just as I am sure most thais have no desire to be 'more American'. That being said; I do accept their cultural differences with its myriad of short comings, but that is NOT the same as unquestioningly embracing it to be more like them. I accept it and try to understand it so I can coexist with them with minimum frustration to myself, not for any tolerance towards them. Their country their rules, I understand that too well.. Rules are tools; never forget that. I use their societal and cultural rules against them to achieve my goals. It's win/win.

Given the fact T-I-F-T, one has to be aware that foreigners who are in the 'wanna-b-thai' mindset eventually lower their expectations until they expect nothing at all. Now sometimes this results in those expectations (which were zero) being exceeded, but not often. There is nothing wrong with expecting real or factual answers to questions asked. Just as there is nothing wrong with talking about the endless idiosyncratic behavior one witnesses here every single day.

Going on 4 years here now, I refuse to accept moronic answers from thais to questions I ask them IN THAI.

Never the less 'mate', we are NOT in your country, instead we are trying to coexist with the diminutive inhabitants in THIS country. That could be why people are seeking advice about the strange quirky ways the natives have here. Oh and it's probably why we are posting on the Thai forum as well...

Interesting comment about thais saying 'ครับ', after someone speaks to them even if no further effort on their part is forthcoming. The polyglot Stuart Jay Raj has an interesting bit about the origin of the word in use now.

In his Pod Cast series on Radio Bangkok he has a topic entitled: What does - Khrap - and - Kha - really mean?" Here's the link to his series; http://www.radiobangkok.net/podcasts/ctf/index.php?start=12

If what he says is true, (and I have no reason to doubt him), it certainly makes sense about the usage and connotation of the word. Thai Language dot com also lists ขอรับ as a "very formal polite particle used by men". 'ครับ' may very well be a contraction of this term which evolved over time and has come to denote someone heard you; even if, they didn't understand, don't know or can't help with your statement/question.

Does anyone else have a problem with the near constant correction in speaking thai which all the thais seem to so freely hand out to foreign speakers of this language?

It is bad enough thais are overly patronizing to anyone who remotely attempts to speak thai no matter how butchered. If I had a baht for every time a thai said พูดภาษาไทยเก่ง I'd be a millionaire. Mostly I respond to that statement with ขอบคุณครับแต่เรารู้อยู่แล้วว่าเด็กไทยหกขวบพูดเก่งกว่า, as it is slightly self-deprecating thais will usually warm up and chat after that.

I find it strange they can be overly patronizing and yet at the same time overly critical. My biggest pet peeve is too many thais feel they are the country's official thai language teacher and will correct the slightest mispronunciation when I speak to them before even trying to understand what I might be saying.

I KNOW already I speak like a foreigner, just like I KNOW already I mispronounce some words. Sheesh, listen first and see if you can pick it up by context. What do they think I do with their less than stellar grasp of english?

When I am in a less jovial mood and am asked, พูดภาษาไทยได้ไหม I now say in ผมพูดภาษาไทยเหมือนคนไทยพูดอังกฤษ บางครั้งไม่ชัด, บางคำการออกเสียงไม่ถูกแต่คิดว่าคุณเข้าใจดีพอ. It is probably less than perfect in sentence construction. It is however a jaw dropper more times than not, but it can break the ice OR freeze you out cold.

Now this could be entirely my fault for wanting to speak thai like I speak english. I want them to know if I am unhappy, if I have a problem, if what they are doing is unacceptable to me. The phrase เข้าแถวซิ is a good one for people who try to jump a queue. I would refrain from using it on the drunk as a skunk thai guy that staggers to the front of the line with 6 big bottles of Leo beer, though. You hafta know your audience. ช่างเถอะ is something I say when I am less than ecstatic with the catch all phrase ไม่เป็นไร as an answer to something I asked. I tried to figure out, Mai-bphen-rai is not good enough, think again, but it doesn’t translate well. I am also trying to work out how to say, “Don’t be afraid to speak straight I am an American I cannot lose face.”

I refuse to buy into almost mindless brain washing of couching my thai in some ultra polite semi hypothetical phrasing rather than speaking directly. I try speak very direct, right to the point, and now I will often purposely phrase questions to force them into giving me yes or no answers. I knew when began learning thai I only wanted to speak to thai people the way I speak english but in their language.

The ingrained sense of having to have a pleasant interaction in a conversation is off putting at times. I was driving to Nakhon Ratchasima (Korat) and got turned around. I saw a man walking down the road, and stopped to ask him if this road is the correct one to go to Korat. He said “Yes, of course, correct 100%”. It took almost another hour of driving before I realized I was going AWAY from Korat instead of towards it. I think he was concerned he didn’t want me to lose face by telling me I was going the wrong way, or he didn’t want to lose face by saying he didn’t know the way. It is situations like that which can be frustrating to someone used to dealing with direct conversations and answers.

NOTE: To all the oh-so cunning-linguists out there who read this. IF my thai sentence constructs are not understandable or correctly phrases, please lemme know. It is hard enough to be acerbic, witty and semi-disparaging in english, let alone trying for that in this language.

No wonder thais who don't take the time to know me as a person think I am หยิ่งยโส

I will admit perhaps I was also a little harsh in my knee jerk response. I do defer to your superior language acquisition skills, (and enjoy your blog immensely as well).

I will also agree with your comment that thais are overly patronizing to anyone who remotely attempts to speak thai no matter how butchered or poorly pronounced. If I had a baht for every time a thai said พูดภาษาไทยเก่ง I'd be a millionaire.

I concur the video would probably not be on someone's top 10 list for furthering their thai language skills. Never the less; I did like the presentation and transitions in the video though, and it must have taken quite some time to format.

I am far from the cunning-linguist I would like to be in thai, and while I rarely apologize for anything; in this instance I feel I should. Sorry.

"I'll be in my ready room; Number One you have the bridge.."

Several quite a scathing reviews of something put on YouTube mostly to generate interest in a 'one horse town' language spoken in a country the size of North & South Dakota only. Never the less the points are probably valid; although I don’t speak clear enough thai to know nor care, to the degree the detractors obviously do. I could see the ‘outrage’ if this was a ‘for profit’ video, but it’s for fun.

In the video posters defense I had a thai friend listen to it. They said it was completely understandable and to quote them verbatim; “I tink man in wi-de-o sa-peak thai good as farang can sa-peak, is ca-lear and can un-de-stan ee-zz”. The previous quote was from an actual thai person, but in no way constitutes an endorsement of the aforementioned videos..

Surprisingly when thais actually try to understand a foreigner speaking thai to them, they are able to decipher extremely poorly spoken thai. Much like when I listen to the butchered, mangled, maligned and sadly mispronounced engrish here, more times than not I am able to discern the underlying meaning. Communication is about the exchange of ideas, not pronouncing like we are reading the evening news.

We can only wait with bated breath for the video series the critics will be posting on You Tube or in their blogs for no financial remuneration which will contain picture perfect pronunciations and better examples. Anything that can further our hunt for the ever elusive yet always sought after clear enunciation is a plus in my book.

As always the 'experts' have weighed in on the extremely negative and adverse impact this will have on the development of a bi/tri-lingual child.

In my 'expert opinion'; There is NOTHING wrong with a non-thai father speaking thai to his half thai children, just as there is nothing wrong with him speaking to them in his native language. The impact of a language being poorly pronounced or enunciated (2 big words in a row for you ' experts'; please do your best to follow along) has not been shown to be detrimental in the acquisition of said language(s). Few people speak their native language perfectly nor their second language for that matter.

As an example;

I have a friend who has been in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais” over 10 years, he is German, his wife is Thai, their 9 y/o boy is no surprise 1/2 thai 1/2 German, and their housekeeper is Burmese. They speak a combination of Thai, English, German and Burmese in their home but almost exclusively thai out of the house. The boy to his great credit can effortlessly switch between the 4 languages; often carrying on several conversations at once, speaking German or English with his father, Thai or English with his mother and chatting in Burmese with the housekeeper. Not speaking German or Burmese I cannot vouch for the fluency the boy has with either language, but in Thai and English he is very conversant. His ability to change languages seemingly effortlessly is an enviable skill.

The ability of a child to acquire languages is far superior to that of adults, that fact cannot be argued. Of course the T/V Forum 'experts' know better; so I will defer to their incredible wealth of cumulative knowledge in language acquisition skills of children.

WARNING: This post contains MANY large words, please refer to Merriam-Webster (dot) com for the definitions.

When I shipped my personal things from America to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" I used a company in the US which specializes in moving business people around the world. They in turn contracted with a Thai company that handled this end of it. I shipped nearly half a container's worth of stuff.

Eight weeks later, my stuff arrived but had not cleared customs. The company in Bangkok said I should give them 1200 baht to 'not have a problem', which I did. Two days later a caravan of small trucks from the thai freight company showed up & carried everything inside the house. They said only two small boxes had been opened by customs. I am too young to retire, and only had a Non-O visa so I guess I should have paid import duty on most everything. Believe me it was a HIGH dollar value of stuff I shipped out here.

Come to think of it; that was the best 1200 baht I've spent here in Thailand in nearly 4 years.

IF you want the name of the US company send me a P/M. Oh, and btw; I don't get a cent from them, but their service was top notch.

It is hard to comment on the OP's story without knowing all the facts.

I have occasion to go to the US Embassy many times a month to pick up forms, get notary stamps etc. In the time I have spent there I have heard more sob stories than I can remember. Of course everyone thinks their situation is 'special' or that they should be treated differently than the other 2 or 3 hundred people there on any given day. Unfortunately that is simply not the case.

The ACS Division is one of the most over worked areas in the embassy given the diverse things they do and provide to Americans. It is NOT unusual to see them work another hour after the window closes for lunch to finish the backlog of work they have.

The area where they actually apply for various visas sometimes looks like Sukhumvit Road near Nana with HUGE disparity of ages between the men and their significant others. Many girls wear spaghetti string tops, they make little or no effort to cover or hide tattoos, some of them wearing full 'war paint'. Their husbands sometimes dress little better in their 75baht Singha Beer muscle t-shirts, and their dirty cargo shorts. They often paint a less than appealing picture of a couple. Then again, there are as many conservatively dressed, well presented couples.

I sympathize with the plight people go thru to get visa's to the Unite States, BUT... The burden is 100% totally and completely on the person applying for the visa to show they have sufficient ‘thais’ (sp) to this country to return as well as sufficient funds to live in the US while they are there. The Embassy staff is there to try and see if the information on the forms matches the questions they ask about the information. It’s sometimes hit and miss, but more often than not can weed out less than forthcoming applicants.

The forms initially look overwhelming but there are a plethora of web resources to tell you what you need, how it is to be filled out, etc. While chatting to one immigration official I know at one counter, it looked like the applications she had on her desk had been filled out with a broken crayon, written on the back of the person ahead of them while standing in line, with too many corrections. That is enough to ring warning bells with the counter staff. Turning in correctly and neatly filled out forms, with the necessary supporting documentation, in the correct order, cannot be stressed enough.

Paperwork is what makes a bureaucracy run, the more the better no matter what country. You need only look at the mountain of paperwork that thai immigrations sometimes requires to see that fact.

Many posters have recounted their tale of applying for and receiving the visa they requested for their significant others. It is NOT something that is denied routinely, but it is vetted. Just as with anything; there is a right and wrong way to go about it.

More thai friends of mine than I care to count have the 10 year tourist visa to the US and have visited there many times. It can be done.

Rules are tools; know them, follow them, even exploit them within the letter of the law and you can often get what you want.

Good Luck

Unfortunately as with many things here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" there is a great disparity between qualifications and teaching styles of private teachers. The prices are also vary quite a bit as well. I think in the 250-350 baht an hour range for a good teacher would be a good price.

Sometimes even well known schools will have less than stellar teachers. I wouldn't discount a school or its teaching method based on a single teacher's performance. I don't believe there is any real qualification a thai must attain to teach thai to foreigners; just as there are oh-so many unqualified foreign english teachers plying their trade in this country. It is obviously a two way street in language teaching here.

See if you can get a 'free' lesson to try out ANY school or private teacher. If they are unwilling to do that and insist on pre-payment up front for bulk hours, I would give them a pass. You are unlikely to EVER get your money back on unused hours even if after the first 15 minutes you realize it was a mistake.

In learning this language; it really is a buyer beware market. Of course that being said; if you stick with some better known schools, use referrals of friends who you know attended a school or used a private teacher, I think you will come out okay. I would suggest the following;

*Talk to other students currently attending the school or using the private teacher *BEFORE paying for anything.

*Try to get honest feedback instead of sock-puppet responses from foreign thai wannabes.

*Try to get a free lesson.

*See the curriculum.

*Look at the text books they will use.

The good thai language teachers and schools are out there; you just have to winnow the chaff to get to the wheat.

Good luck

The 'fox-pawz' I have committed whilst trying to communicate with the thais is endless, and could fill volumes.

As a whole I have seen them take it fairly tongue in cheek and well in stride; at least acknowledging a foreigner is attempting to communicate with them in their native language.

The ticket seller example is classic. Now I purposely overemphasize the word for ticket to make sure it is correctly understood.

I studied the thai language intensely for about 10 months by myself at home before enrolling in a school to better my reading and pronunciation. Teaching myself to read was what really got my language skills moving. I can speak reasonably well but if I am going to be in a thai conversation of any length I'll throw in my 'frozen phrase'; "I know already I speak like a foreigner with some words' pronunciation not correct and a hard accent; BUT if you understand me DON'T correct me." Usually I'll also ask them top speak slowly because my ears cannot keep up. I can converse about most things quite easily now. Once a thai switches their ears from thinking I am going to speak english into the 'Oh, he can speak thai' mode, I am understood quite well most of the time.

Back to the OP's topic; I would say learning to read is about the BEST thing I did as far as advancing my language acquisition skill here. Some words still give me fits with their inherent vowels, or consonants which are finals on one syllable and initials on the following one. Other then some quirky pronunciation rules for words, their language is fairly straightforward, and I can get reasonably close to the pronunciation of unfamiliar words whose meaning I have not a single clue or idea of. Sometimes when I am out and about and see something written out I can't decipher I take a pic with my phone to look it up later.

While some thai words can look daunting, and with no break between words in sentences it can be tough initially you must realize most thai words are SMALL words which are grouped together to form compound words, thoughts, or concepts. Many words are high frequency words; used over and over in writing and daily speech. Just as an example; the word for "Immigration" from the thai-language dot com site is กรมตรวจคนเข้าเมือง, breaking the words down gives you กรม - a prefix denoting a government office, ตรวจ - (to) check, คน - people, เข้า - (to) enter, เมือง - (a) country. Pretty self explanatory when you break the words apart, and while initially that word looks dauntingly large; it is composed of 5 smaller words, several which are commonly used high frequency words.

Even though I have never learned the tone rules, nor know a high class from a low class consonant I can read really well, because it is done silently. Once you recognize how a word is spelled and it's corresponding meaning in your head, whether you pronounce it correctly is only a concern for spoken thai. I spend several hours a day practicing vocabulary, putting new words on my white board, to remember them, and trying to use them in spoken sentences.

I would say learn the consonants and vowels, then the tone marks, for while there are 5 tones possible in thai only one word has 4 of them. The high-middle-and low toned words will rarely be misunderstood by a thai when you talk to them. The falling and rising tones can throw you off your scripted conversation awfully fast though. I have concentrated only on those two tones, but learn them more by rote as vocabulary words, not the rules which govern pronunciation.

Each person picks up language differently, and what works for me may not for you. Try several schools, see which one works, and DON'T think your language acquisition abilities are less than normal just because one school's method doesn't click for you.

Needing to have a several paragraph document worded in English translated into Thai. I went to two offices near my apartment which offered this service.

I gave both the exact same directions. Translate this as briefly as possible without losing ANY context or meaning. The next day I picked up both translated documents. One was a single long paragraph. It was concise, well written, and had every point from the source document represented in the Thai translation.

The other was a rambling, overly wordy almost incoherent document nearly two pages long. I could barely make heads or tails out of; even being able to read most things in Thai.

Of course there was a great difference in price because of the size of the translated document. The bigger document commanding the higher price even though it was less true to the source document, to the translating service it ‘looked’ better and was therefore worth more.

I would side with 'mangkorn' on this. I feel the price should be determined from the source document. You could very easily end up with an unreadable novel just so it cost you more. I for one would certainly pay more even if the Thai translation was half as wordy as my original English document IF it was an accurate translation.

I have all too many sex-pat friends who come to the Nana for a couple of months before flying back to the reality of their lives elsewhere in the world, only to see them return again a few months down the road. I walk down there at most twice a week to visit people, chat about real world things, as well as listen to the obligatory stories of their 'conquests'. I liken it to the "island of misfit toys", and can only tolerate it in metered doses.

That being said; aside from their extreme sexual shallowness, the people who are repeat stayers or live/stay long term are a fairly well educated, diverse bunch and often times are very interesting to chat with. You have to accept their penchant for "nana-necking"; which of course, is the ability for a man to turn his head like an owl in a 220+ degree arc while watching a girl walk by. You get used to that peculiarity which seems to be a 'nana specific' acquired illness.

The owner of the hotel has been renovating the floors one by one, and I believe all rooms recently got new air-cons. It's never gonna be 5 star hotel but it doesn't pretend to be that either. I think the official rating is just the outline of one star in magi marker, but it's nearly always booked full. Of course the front desk staff can usually 'find' a room for you if you don't make an advance reservation (for some money slipped them surreptitiously).

Unfortunately, they just recently raised the prices considerably in the Nana Restaurant. It was already pricey by thai standards for just above mediocre food. Water is no longer free, and Coffee or Tea I believe is now 65 baht a 15 baht increase.

As far as the girls who used to crowd the parking lot; the owner now employs a security guard to keep the free-lancers out of the lot for the most part. What used to be 30-50 girls is now limited to a few standing at the extreme corner of the lot by the pharmacy and the vietnam war era ones haunting the cocktail lounge.

It's still one of the greatest places to people watch. It comes into its own and is the "Twilight Zone" at 1:00am when Nana Plaza closes, disgorging its mass of humanity. You really see “Beauties and the Beasts” at that time of the evening. The Nana Disco is also a great place to watch people as well, but only gets going after about midnite. I think Spice Club opening under the Ambassador Hotel took a lot of their business.

Love it or hate it; it is what it is.

I just went to Suan Plu last week to extend my education visa. I got there early, before it even opened. Still there was a group of about 10-15 people waiting near the door.

I had my forms pre-filled out, photo glued on, support documentation copied and ready to turn in. When the doors opened I got my number for the correct counter, waited until they called my number and turned in my passport, application, etc. She looked over my paperwork, I paid my 1900 Baht, and was given a laminated number to retrieve my passport. 15 minutes later had my number called to pick up the passport with the new 90 day extension.

I had to get back in the queue for numbers to counters (which was considerably longer). The first time thru they wouldn't give me tickets for both the extension window and one where you report staying in the kingdom longer than 90 days. Got my ticket for that window, again had the form pre-filled out, and my number was called in 2 or 3 minutes.

All in all a problem free experience, although as I was leaving, the lines in the main room where you queue to get tickets to the various windows stretched across the room. I could see tempers flaring, people being frustrated, arguing with the girls behind the counter, etc.

Most of the problems I could see arose from;

1) Poorly dressed, scruffy, tattooed guys //slur removed// in tow trying to 'beat the system' in some fashion, or having their g/f’s explain why they were to be given an exception to the rules.

2) People trying to jump the queue causing tension in the line.

3) The BIG problem I saw was people who had NO clue as to what they were doing, what forms they needed, queuing up, and asking endless questions in the line to get your number for the appropriate counter. Then seeing them doing the mad rush to fill out their forms, run across the street for copies, photos, etc before their number was called. This was the prime reason in my mind why the line to get numbers to the correct counter creeps along.

My advice;

1) Get there early BEFORE it opens if you can. It’s not like you go there every month and getting up early one day won’t kill you.

2) Have ALL your support documentation copied BEFORE you arrive, application pre-filled out, photo glued on. Between this forum and other websites there is NO reason to show up without the proper documentation, without your forms filled out, without photos, etc.

3) Dress politely, these are people who wield considerable power over your ability to stay here whether you like it or not. It won't kill you to skip wearing your Singha Beer muscle t-shirt, 99 baht grubby cargo shorts, and cheap sandals for a day. Nor will it be detrimental to wear a long sleeved shirt to hide your tattoos, or pull out your earrings for the visit. It may not help but it will certainly NOT hurt.

4) DO NOT GET MAD. The rules are the rules. While the immigrations officers have some discretion; the slightest hint of an attitude or anger will slam that door on your fingers.

All in all, I found it a relatively painless and trouble free time dealing with thai bureaucracy.

Good Luck

(edited for a pesky spelling mistake)

When I started learning thai I too was daunted by the tonal differences in similar words. Being American they all initially sounded the same to my ears which weren’t used to a tonal language for anything but emotional conveyance. I was also put off by vowel length or duration here as well. In English whether you say Hello, or Heeello or even Helloooo, it’s understood as the same word something that is definitely NOT the case in this language. Pronouncing a word wrong by vowel length or tone can derail a conversation quicker than anything else.

Teaching myself to read was the BEST investment in time I ever made. Every vowel sound is represented as its own. In English learning whether an ‘a’ is pronounced like ‘ate’, or ‘at’ or silent as in ‘each’ is something we learn not by grammar rules but by recognizing groups of letters represent words. Learn to read thai and you see all the ‘mai’ words (no, new, silk, wood, burn, etc) are spelled differently, just like all the ‘khao’ words (rice, news, white, enter, he/she, etc). Once you get the reading down to a degree you can pronounce words you have no idea of their meaning because of the consistency in their character representation. (I know this is a simplistic approach and I will not touch on ‘special’ words or character groupings).

The more vocabulary you learn in written thai the more proficient you are. I study new vocabulary words every day. I have a white board where I write down words I hear or read but don’t know, I read and say them until I can recognize them when I see them again. If I hear a word I don’t know I’ll try to get a thai to spell it for me, as often the way it is pronounced is deceptive especially with r’s and l’s, as well as n’s and ng’s. If it’s spelled out I can easier see how it would be pronounced in a ‘perfect world’.

I have found thai is a language made up of mostly small mono-syllabic words connected to form compound words or meanings. Learning the meaning of the small words gives you a heads up when trying to decipher the big ones.

Granted learning to read will NOT improve your speaking tonal distinction, nor your ability to understand the thais who are talking in ‘warp speed’ mode. I can read far better than I can speak because a person reads to himself, not out loud, so if a tone is off, no one knows it but me.

I have spent 3 to 4 hours a day, for almost the last year teaching myself to read, learning vocabulary, learning to type, and speak this language. Many times I was discouraged, took a break for a few days, but always came back to it. Was it easy; no.. Then again things that have real value seldom are. As I previously stated for a solid return on investment, learning this language was the best thing I’ve done here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”.

Good luck na. .. ..

I think it's the 3rd or 4th floor in MBK Mall that has the instant print shops and I know Fortune Tower has shops like them as well.

As this is the glorious "Land 'O Thais" the term 'instant print' is stretching the definition a little but.... I usually drop off the order one day and pick it up the next, about as close to instant as you get here, lol..

I get t-shirts made from them all the time with thai phrases. Obviously printing just one shirt is price prohibitive with the initial set-up charge. I think the last single shirt I had done was in the 250-300 baht range with them supplying the t-shirt. However printing the same design on say a dozen shirts drops the price considerably.

The shops do business cards, posters, flyers, put images on coffee mugs. They even shot screens of and copied some ultra-rare KISS t-shirts of mine because the originals were too valuable to wear anymore.

Good Luck

Hull is about the most user friendly Thai Consulate in any first world country to deal with.

They have the 'bar' set extremely low in handing out Multi-Entry Non-O Visas. "Visiting friends in thailand" is a valid reason for the granting of a years Non-O Multi. I believe the only 'real' rules which are followed are; the applicant can't be in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" when applying and the postmark must originate from the UK.

Too many people I know have FedEx'd their passports to friends in the UK, who in turn have posted it to Hull, gotten a years Non-O visa and had it FedEx'd right back to them while staying in neighboring S/E Asian countries. It probably does not follow the spirit of the law. However, in each case the people were allowed entry and not one was questioned at the thai border about why they had a thai visa issued from England when they were in Cambodia, or the Philippines.

There is no telling how long Hull will remain as 'user friendly' as they are now. My advice is; "get 'em while you can".

I have heard that same phrase but never quite worked it out other than the first word 'if'. Thanx. ..

Coincidentally, when I first moved here and would hear thais end phone conversations often I would hear what sounded like "Canada..." just before they hung up. I worked out on my own they ALL couldn't be talking to Canadians and that 'Canada' wasn't a secret code word for something else.

I learned much later it was the phrase; แค่นี้นะ (khaaeF neeH naH). My ears which were not used to hearing thai interpreted it to my brain in english as; Ca-na-da.

Oh well, live and learn.

THAILIBAN; Almost EVERY school which teaches the thai language offers ED visa 'assistance'. It is a selling tool to get a year’s tuition paid in advance. Just as every school I've looked into has their curriculum approved by the Ministry of Education. Neither are anything new. Given the enforcement of existing visa laws on the books the ED Visa is only now being given the intense scrutiny on this forum.

My suggestion is to visit as many different thai language schools as you can. All of them offer a free lesson; take it, see what school's method 'clicks' for you.

You might be hard pressed to find a language school which only uses thai fonts, and not as you so elegantly put it; "ridiculous transcription". The Callan/Walen School uses ONLY thai written materials, but you pre-ruled them out because they offer visa 'assistance'. Other schools to my knowledge use transcription for several books before making the jump to exclusively thai script in their books. Someone posted in another thread that a school whose name eludes me offers their books either in thai or transliteration.

IF you're not interested in the 'visa assistance' don't take it. Don't rule out a language school simply because it offers that option without seeing if their program and method of teaching will work for you.

This is far from the easiest language to learn to speak or read, although I have found reading easier. I made the comment on another thread that if I wanted an easy to read, user friendly language I'd certainly start with an alphabet which has 6 letters which sound like a 'T' (ฐ, ฑ, ฒ, ท, ธ, ถ), 5 letters which sound like a 'K' (ข, ฃ, ค, ฅ, ฆ), 4 letters which sound like an 'S' (ซ, ศ, ษ, ส), and then throw in inherent vowels, silent letters, as well as letters which start words with one sound yet if they end a word have a different sound altogether. Clearly this is an easy to read, easily learned language used by the diminutive inhabitants here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Where ever you decide to go, good luck. .

Oh, and in answer to Big A, I would continue studying thai. I feel communication with the natives in their language where ever you live can only be a positive thing.

Rural thais (and even bangkokian ones) use money lenders like we use credit cards in the US. They borrow often, and sometimes with large sums they can only pay the interest to keep the note alive. As one posted pointed out it could be a 'test' to see if you'll pony up, or it could be legit. If your fluency in thai leaves a lot to be desired and you are relying on the 'pidgin-engrish' version, it only makes believing it that much harder and difficult to prove or disprove. Too many questions and you will inevitably be hit with the “Why you ask too mut, you no belieb me?” line and its ensuing loss of face, etc.

I think your worry about your daughter becoming 'homeless' as you so quaintly put it, is very unlikely. Children are cared for very ingeniously here by extended family members. Nor is it particularly noteworthy to have a baby being watched/cared for by the grandparents often 100’s of kilometers away from the mother as it's just the way things are done here. I doubt the money lender wants the house/land, probably just the money. As was pointed out by another poster, now that there is a foreigner in the mix, the family could be perceived as having a ‘cash cow’ that can be ‘milked’. The debt is OLD but the lender only just now wants to collect in full. That is usually indicative that they smell money at hand.

While it is a heart-wrenching tale about commitment and love in the glorious "Land 'O Thais"; knowing if the 100K debt is real or not is sketchy at best. Remember; even a white cat is grey in the dark. 100K is a LARGE debt to owe a money lender for that length of time. Especially so for someone living up-country where an entire thai family can live for 5K a month without any problem. (I am NOT saying they can live a first world quality life, but that they can certainly meet their day to day needs up-country in a pissant shit-hole developing third world country like this.) You don't delve into the reasons why they have this debt, only that they have had it for many years. What was the money borrowed for? There could be underlying problems like drinking, gambling, etc.

While I live here by a motto which has served me well; "Don't EVER trust a thai and trust the foreigners living here less", in the end only you can decide what is right for you, your child and her mother.

As has been stated many times before; the 'bar' is MUCH higher trying to get thais into the US than for americans to get into the glorious "Land 'O Thais". It's that first world status versus third world status deal, I’m sure you understand the logistics.

The burden of proof is 100% on the applicant to show the US embassy they have sufficient 'thais' here so they leave the US when their tourist stint is over. It goes without saying that all too many people from all too many countries arrive in the US on tourist visas and then never leave.

Title to land, a car, a good job/work history, perhaps a letter from an employer stating they will still be employed, along with a bank balance which shows active deposits and withdrawals, not just a lump deposit from a 'sponsor', all work in favor of tipping the scales towards granting a tourist visa.

Tell her NOT to lie about anything. Believe me; the US embassy staff has heard EVERY single excuse, fairy tale, and sob story. That said, I know many, many thais who have not only visited the US, but visit regularly. It is not all that difficult, but it far from the "show-up-and-you're-in" deal like it is for an american coming here.

I concur about not going to extremes and would not even broach the subject of financial support. It could close more doors than it opens. IF what you state about her is true; she has good 'thais' to the community, a good job, a 'big family', I suggest she give it a shot. All they can say is no, and that certainly isn't the end of the world for either of you.

Search the T/V Forum for visa's to the US, and look at what others have done, what their success rate was, what worked or didn't work and go from there.

I have observed the 'thai gold' phenomena since my arrival here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". In the higher end shopping areas, I don't see the gold flaunted as much as I do in the low end areas. I have also seen a correlation in skin color with the amount of gold worn; with the darker skin tones wearing the most and the lightest skin tones wearing the least. While some might say this is a racial remark, it is something I have observed and so bears mentioning.

I do know many thais who have HUGE stashes of gold horded in their homes as an 'insurance policy'. With the biggest bill here worth about $30.62US; keeping a large amount of cash on hand is bulky. The same in gold is a small easily hidden pile. Most people I know who have gold bought it in China Town at the famous gold shop. It is the one which is so busy you can barely squeeze into the shop on the weekend. Strangely the gold shops across the street; which look like they have the same thing for sale were empty.

As far as foreigners and gold; I have seen all too many guys wearing those coffee coaster sized Jatukam amulets with their over-sized gold necklaces. They are usually the ones with their names tattooed in thai on their arms as well. Then again I live in a prominent tourist area and am forced to co-mingle with people of this ilk.

I stopped caring a LONG time ago what people think of me.

I am NOT arrogant; I am American, deal with it. ..

A thai friend of mine just got the new style thai driver's license a few weeks ago.

Low and behold it actually looks like a 'real' driver's license with a hologram, laminated by them (not from the shop outside) and has english and thai writing. It is certainly not like the old style one which looks like a person bought it on KhaoSan Road.

I have a 90 day ED visa, but just got the extension letter from the Ministry of Education. I went yesterday and got my letter of residence from the US embassy for 1020 baht. Even though my 5 year thai license has 3 years left on it, I’ll go next week to see if I can get the new style.

I find it quite interesting that of the plethora of thai language schools available to foreigners here, NOT one has come under the all too often critical scrutiny that the Callan/Walen School has been subjected to.

I also have NEVER seen a single thread posted by an owner of any of those schools; yet all of them to a school offer the ED visa 'assistance' on their websites.

In his (in)finite wisdom the ‘designated champion of underachievers’; cali4995 will just not let it go. Is it too difficult to accept it is a language school which offers visa assistance not a visa service which offers language assistance?

Having lived in and made many trips to Brazil (albeit NOT in a major metropolitan like Rio or São Paulo) I can say it is no more dangerous than any other country IF you exhibit common sense. Unfortunately that is a sense which seems sorely lacking all too often with travelers.

In all my time there I never felt uncomfortable, concerned or worried about the myriad of Brazilians around me. Granted I never ever set foot in Rio, and went straight from Guarulhos International Airport (GRU) to Congonhas (CGH) their domestic aiport during my layovers to the interior.

I did business in and lived in Teofilo Otoni which is a 10+ hour over-nite, harrowing and always bone jarring bus ride from the capital of the Brazilian state; Minas Gerais called Belo Horizonte. However, even in Belo Horizonte; which probably has a population close to 3 million people I was never concerned about personal safety.

Then again, as in ANY country; whether that is a first or third world one there are 'bad' areas. Someone not fluent in the spoken language or in the company of a ‘very trusted local’ would do well not to stray into those areas unsupervised.

I found the police in Brazil no more incompetent or corrupt than their counterparts here, but conversely they are no less so either. There as here, I found money to be big motivator in getting good attentive police service in less than optimal situations.

All over Brazil, even in some more remote areas of the interior I found english spoken far more prevalently than you will find up country here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". With no ‘face’ to lose the people in Brazil are far less reticent about using their english skills what ever their level of competence.

Use plenty of common sense and you should be fine. I do suggest following my motto: "Don't EVER trust the natives of a country and trust the foreigners living there LESS.. In all my travels that mantra has served me well on too many occasions to count.

(edited for a pesky spelling mistake)