kwilco

Can't see any reference to the ETA there - can you quote the bit where it says it's been abandoned?

so - is the ETA going to be introduced this June? The authorities seem to be keeping very quiet about this.

Sounds like they were doing an opacity test?

The black smoke emitted by diesel engines is primarily composed of particulate matter (PM), which includes largely soot (i.e. carbon particles. These are tiny carbon-based particles resulting from incomplete combustion of diesel fuel. Also you get unburned hydrocarbons, that’s unburnt fuel that that escaped as vapour. Carbon monoxide, another result of incomplete combustion. Sulphur compounds; diesel still contains sulphur but it less common now due to fuel regulations. Ash that comes from additives or impurities, especially in older engines and engines burning low-quality fuel. This smoke is visually polluting but nevertheless quite harmful to health, like crop burning it contributes to respiratory and cardiovascular diseases. Most recent diesel engines use diesel particulate filters (DPFs) and catalytic reduction to reduce or eliminate visible smoke. If a diesel engine is poorly maintained it is likely to emit black smoke, this is common on commercial vehicles... However pickup truck racing is very popular in Thailand and many youths like to emulate the tuning that these vehicles undergo. The result on highly tuned diesel is almost always a lot of extra black smoke – so these young bloods love to leave a trail of black smoke as they accelerate away as a sign of the tuning the vehicle has had. There are emission laws but they are inconsistently enforced by a relatively untrained police force. As a footnote it’s worth bearing in mind that gasoline engines emit just as many dangerous pollutants but because they can’t be seen, them people don’t complain. So when following a gasolene vehicle onyour motorbike, remember just because you can't see the gases, it doesn't mean you aren't also inhaling them.

Some still don't seem to comprehend rhe difference between local discounts and dual pricing which is a surcharge to a factor of TEN.

dual rpicing contributes nothing extra to the running of the National parks. Middle income families have about the same tax burden as a mid-income family in the States. It isn't just a simplistic matter of "money" it is how Thailand intends to preserve it's natural resources and manage ths ee resources well - at prent they are totally failing in their duty. - Dule pricing has no benefits at all.

I lived and WORKED in industry and universities Thailand for over 20 years - there isn't a year since 1994 I haven't been in the country - but It still amazes be how utterly ignorant expats can be even after years of living in Thailand - they don't speak Thai, get there info off an Issan wife and fellow Chang drinkers - they never read a proper Thai history book, never read newspapers and have no idea how to use a search engine. THey fully interact with Thai working people on a daily basis or socialise with them. They just live in a little self-fed bubble of prejudice

but it isn't is it? - It's FOREIGNERS who are charged - you are just seeing from a racist-centric PoV.

Which one is that? There are several around Kanchanaburi - do you mean Phu Toei?

This is a thread about the rights and wrongs of dual pricing. It looks like your expereience of national parks is extreely limited and yyou are in no position to make comments like "they are not worth it? In the post above you say "Poor maintenance in my opinion." - yet you don't seem to understand how this connects with dual pricing DNP manages the national parks very badly and one of the "symptoms" of this is dual pricing. The parks are managed by a combination of government funding and entrance fees and they are very cagey about precisely how much - however the dual pricing actually deters visitors and has a detrimental affect on the income - how it is spread around is another problem. Linked to dual pricing is the blanket pricing of national parks - almost all either charge 200 or 400 baht - this fails to take into account th "value" of the attraction whether it is a 200 yrad path to a waterfall or several thousand square kilometres of virgin rainforest. Thailand has over 150 national parks and has made little changes in funding over the years to deal with the increases in area now covered. Camping - almost all national parks have campsites - they also have encroachment by businesses running camps and bungalows inside the borders of the parks - often the military - these show how the DNP could be making money from visitors - rather than dual pricing the DNP should be organising how visitors use the parks - set up profitable campsites that take note of conservation and the environment and bring in extra income for the parks - but they fail miserably to do this. I have have visited dozens and can tell you they ARE worth visiting. the problem is how they are managed and dual pricing is one part of this - sos just dismissing them as not worth visiting is just ridiculous and misses the point of the thread.

Is there a differential or dual pricing for foreigners. Most of the people I've seen landing in helicopters in national parks have been government officials - I didn't realise private flights were allowed. So how do the DNP manage this?

You don't realise that this is not an argument - it is a false claim to authority - Living here 20 years doesn’t make you right — it just means you’ve had 20 years to form an opinion, not necessarily an informed one.

You're not very good at evidence in an argument, are you? It is highly illogical to suggest that there will be no change because in you shallow experience " Nothing has ever changed," in the past 20 years - THe fact is in the last 20 years there have been many changes in how the national parks charge entrance fees - they have even changed the way they apply dual pricing and there have been various (noy many) papers that have addressed this topic and how national parks are maintained.

Is discrimination the same a s racism? Not really they are both often coded language used by racists, though. As there are 3 stages, stupid, stupider and racist, they often misuse the words to enhance their racist misconceptions and give them a false air of gravitas. Discrimination is the unjust or prejudicial treatment of people based on certain characteristics, such as race, gender, age, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or nationality. It can occur in many areas of life, including employment, education, housing, and public services. Racism, on the other hand, is a specific form of discrimination. It refers to prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone based on their race or ethnicity, often rooted in the belief that some races are inherently superior to others. So the key differences are the discrimination is a broad term that can apply to many types of bias (not just race) and racism is a specific type of discrimination that targets race or ethnicity. Unfortunately Racists use the word especially when claiming racism is practiced against themselves this is a common issue. Racists like to accuse others of “discrimination” and claim that they themselves are victims of racism, they often use the term to describe any situation where they feel they’re being treated unfairly because of their race. This is an ignorant misapplication of the term used defensively or manipulatively to deflect criticism. Also the word "culture" (see above) is often used as a coded substitute by those who want to express racist ideas without directly referencing race. This is referred to as "cultural racism" or "coded language", and is used by racists to mask prejudice as concern for values, traditions, or social norms.

QED - just pure prejudice...Calling Thailand the "Land of Scams" is a lazy, prejudiced take that adds nothing to the debate. Dual pricing is a flawed practice with many negative effects but it is not racism, and not even unique to Thailand. Oversimplifying it as “scamming” ignores the real economic context and just reflects personal bitterness, not understanding. If you want change, start with facts and respect — not clichés and name-calling.

Racist misuse of the word "culture"...first of all culture is not static so your whole premise is based on a misunderstanding.

Why do you think it's a "thing of the past"? Do you even understand what that phrase means?

I don't think you understand dual pricing at all - it wasn't invented yesterday.

You don't know how the national parks are funded, do you?

1584. = that number has been available since about 2011. Before than it was local authorities or the TAT and Tourist police

Not really - I think you’re doing a chicken and egg thing – Samet has been part of a national park since 1981 – It’s part of The Khao Laem Ya – Mu Ko Samet National Park Breakdown: It is made up of Koh Samet (the main island), Khao Laem Ya the headland on the mainland (good beach camping) and all the other smaller islands nearby - Ko Kudee, Ko Kruai, Ko Kham, Ko Plai Tin, and Ko Talu. Only 80% of Koh Samet is part of the national park and is subject to conservation regulations, while a small portion is designated for tourism infrastructure and community use. There has of course been encroachment as the island has become more popular. I first stayed there in 1994 – there were no roads – only a large bulldozer and no substantial piers. It has for decades been popular with visitors from BKK before any foreigners turns up and this is why it was designated a national park – for a long time it was forbidden to stay overnight on the island.

THat's already happening - it is what the minister's meeting was about.

It is neither - that's just your own prejudice and misinformation

I bet you can't explain why with evidence.