kwilco

and tht is precisely the problem when they vote

Why Wild Ideas Are Thriving (And How to Push Back) Twenty years ago, flat Earth, fake moon landings, anti-vax fear, and fringe politics were laughed off. Now? They're everywhere. Why? No more gatekeepers. Anyone can post anything, and shock spreads faster than truth. Social media rewards outrage, not accuracy. People have lost trust in institutions after wars, recessions, and pandemics. Echo chambers reinforce beliefs, no matter how wild. Simple lies beat complex truths. It's easier to blame a conspiracy than understand science. Identity politics. Beliefs become tribal, not logical. How to fight back? Stay calm. Mockery fuels their fire. Ask questions. Get people thinking, not defending. Share sources they might trust—not just "mainstream." Most importantly: build trust. No one listens to someone they think looks down on them. It’s not about winning arguments. It’s about planting seeds.

Pathetic - you like always have no idea of how utterly stupid you are. You clearly have not followed up peer reviews on any of those they are all discredited - you should also look at various medical publications for the history of both these papers and the cranks who wrote them. Check the dates too - you are being fooled - not difficult in your case. You need to learn about sources and how to research rather than just search - "PubMed lists studies—it doesn’t endorse junk science. The vaccine-autism link has been debunked over and over. Only fools continue dragging up discredited trash.

Yes, the study that originally claimed a link between vaccines and autism has been thoroughly discredited—both scientifically and ethically. Here are the key facts: The Study: It was a 1998 paper by Andrew Wakefield, published in The Lancet, which suggested a link between the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine and autism. Flawed and Fraudulent: The study had: A sample size of only 12 children. No control group. Cherry-picked and falsified data. Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest (Wakefield was funded by lawyers suing vaccine manufacturers). Consequences: The paper was retracted by The Lancet in 2010. Wakefield lost his medical license due to serious professional misconduct. Scientific Consensus: Over 25 large-scale, peer-reviewed studies have found no causal link between vaccines and autism. Health organizations worldwide—including the CDC, WHO, NHS, and American Academy of Pediatrics—have confirmed vaccines are safe and do not cause autism. So yes, not only was the original study disgraced, it also sparked a damaging wave of anti-vaccine hysteria that continues to harm public health today.

That's misinformation disguised as concern. Autism is a neurodevelopmental condition, not a cover-up for “vaccine injury.” Countless rigorous studies have found no link between vaccines and autism. Spreading this false narrative endangers public health and stigmatizes autistic people.

Single-vehicle rollovers aren’t especially common in Thailand, but there are a few factors that can increase the likelihood of them happening. One major factor is vehicle type. Pickup trucks, which are very popular here, have a higher centre of gravity compared to sedans. This makes them more prone to tipping over in certain situations. Another contributing factor is the condition and layout of the roads. When a pickup hits the edge of the road—especially where there's a drop or a soft shoulder—it’s very easy for the vehicle to roll. The typical reaction is for the driver to instinctively yank the wheel to get back on the road, which can tip the truck even more aggressively. What happens next depends heavily on speed and what's around the road—things like lamp posts, trees, or barriers. In the case I’m thinking of, the vehicle struck a lamp post. If the verge had been clearer, or if there were Armco barriers in place, the damage might have been reduced significantly. It's important to remember that most accidents are caused by what’s termed “human error.” That doesn’t mean “stupidity”—it just means that people make mistakes. We all do. It could be glancing at a phone, adjusting the radio, getting distracted by something outside the vehicle, even sneezing. Eating or drinking while driving is also a very common factor.

I assume this is because you are such a superb driver yourself and not because you have no idea what human error actually is?

Do you have any evidence for that?

There’s a lot of “sealioning” going on – whilst this isn’t a form of argument, it is a form of passive aggression, maybe a bit of clarification on sources, statisitcs and references will help to keep them quiet. There are so many cliches and common misconceptions expressed on this forum when it comes to road safety statistics in Thailand. A common myth floating around is that "deaths not at the scene are not counted." This simply isn’t true. While the Thai police release figures during holidays, these numbers are typically not presented as final statistics. The media often misrepresents or oversimplifies these figures, especially when comparing them to international standards. There is no limit on when you can be included! As Mark Twain famously said, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” The key takeaway here is that statistics are tools to help us understand a situation; they are not indisputable facts. How they are interpreted and presented is crucial. When discussing road safety in Thailand, it’s important to distinguish between the sources of data. The most commonly referenced statistics come from the Thai police and the World Health Organization (WHO). However, the media often misrepresents WHO data by only quoting one set of Statistics, that is DEATHS per 100,000 population, which can mislead the public. Collisions and injuries are largely ignored To understand properly how poor Thai Stats are, we can compare Thai road safety data with more reliable systems, such as those from the UK government, which offers comprehensive and transparent traffic data (check out the UK Department for Transport website for a good reference). Thailand’s road safety statistics are, unfortunately, incomplete, inconsistent, and sometimes inaccurate. This is partly due to poor data gathering and collation methods. While organizations like WHO do their best to make sense of the data, it’s often missing key details in some categories, and the methods used for data collection in Thailand can vary widely. The media are completely useless at interpreting these stats, preferring headlines to a good overview. That said, it's still fair to conclude that, despite these limitations, the available statistics on road safety in Thailand are alarming and show a serious problem that needs to be addressed. But there are more stats to consider than just deaths and deaths per 100k population Key Stats to Consider: • Deaths per 1 million inhabitants • Serious injuries per 1 million inhabitants • Minor injuries per 1 million inhabitants • Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-KM • Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles • Registered vehicles per 1000 inhabitants Main Data Sources for Thai Road Safety: 1. Royal Thai Police (POLIS) 2. Department of Highways (DOH) 3. Department of Land Transport (DLT) 4. Thai Road Accident Data Center for Road Safety Culture (ThaiRSC) 5. Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand (EMIT) 6. National Institute for Emergency Medicine (NIEM) 7. Thailand Road Accident Management System (TRAMS) 8. Injury Surveillance (IS) - Ministry of Public Health 9. Trauma Registry - Ministry of Public Health 10. WHO and Global Status Reports on Road Safety While these sources collectively provide a more accurate picture, they are rarely used or even acknowledged by mainstream media outlets. It’s essential that we push for better data transparency and awareness to address Thailand’s ongoing road safety crisis. PS - The Papers are releasing figures every day - these are mostly via the RTP - and have poor in depth quality. PPS - By comparison the UK has 900 collisions per day - against over Songkhran in Thailand 260 per day - now that needs interpreting! The Death rater in UK is about one twelfth of that in Thailand....

I don't, I'm using "reduction ad absurdum" to show how pointless your response is - as you say you have “no theory” – it's just a pointless comment - That kind of anecdotal reasoning completely misses the point. Road safety in Thailand is a systemic issue — it’s about infrastructure, enforcement, education, and cultural attitudes on a national scale. Sharing hearsay about why some people might make dangerous driving decisions doesn't help move the conversation forward. If we want real change, we need to focus on the root causes and effective solutions, not justify reckless behaviour with unverified personal anecdotes.

That would be correct as it is a fallacious way of understanding road safety in Thailand

the decision to allow entry or not can often be decided by the IO in front of you. Were you land or air crossing? Whereabouts how long had you been in Thailand before - multiple entries over several months, one 60 day - "back to back" is just going out and coming straight back within 24 hours? THere is also the possibility he just took offence to something you did or said. Trouble is once you've been told, it is hard for that officer to reverse because they would lose face

Again just concentrating on one particular statistic - i.e. DEATHS per 100k. Traffic during covid was much lighter - so the overall number of deaths would be expected to be lower - the death RATE - well not sure and the gathering of statistics in Thailand has been very poor. One needs to know the 3 categories of injuries that are internationally recognised - minor/serious/fatal - Thailand failed to produce these on an annual basis for decades. Realistic comparisons are made when you look at vehicles ownership, vehicles on the road, and mileage covered by each person. THen you need to look at the roads themselves and the type of vehicle - here the elephant in the room is the combination of big vehicles and small 20 wheels and other vulnerable road users on roads not designed for this- about half of all vehicles on Thailand's roads are still 2-wheelers. Also if you look at incomes, it is the lower incomes that are t highest risk on Thai roads. there is one more factor tht ppeople tend to overlook and that is the state of the emergency services - form first responders partially qualified paramedics, non centralised ambulance services and hit and miss A&E departments the situation means that many crash vistims miss out on the "golden hour" and subsequently lose their lives. Over the last 3 decades the death rates over the 2 major national holidays - January New Year and Songkhran, the death rate is usually lower but not significantly - again one has to consider the nature of traffic - at the beginning and end of the holidays, people go to and from family and long distance traffic is common then in between many short journeys are done including driving through jammed street for water fights. Heavy commercial vehicles are banned or restricted on most roads to help ease congestion. Police are USELESS at producing statistics and crash reports so the picture is seldom clear.

so your theory is if they stop that the death rate per 100k awill drop to the same levels as in Europe?

nobody is getting Boeing Jets - the company is stuffed! and has been for several years now.

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Here’s a list of sources for road safety statistics in Thailand apart from the WHO The list may not be complete but it is made up of credible sources you can use to find road safety statistics for Thailand beyond the WHO. They range from government data to academic research and NGO reports: ThaiRSC - Thailand Road Safety Collaboration Centre - http://www.thairsc.com This is Thailand’s official road safety data clearinghouse. It’s part of the Ministry of Public Health and compiles accident statistics, fatalities, injuries, and research by region, vehicle type, and more. Primarily in Thai there are some EL reports. Department of Disease Control (DDC), Ministry of Public Health - https://ddc.moph.go.th They re meant to collaborate with ThaiRSC. They collect health-related accident and injury data — including road fatalities, hospitalizations, and injury types by province. Reports cover more than just death counts — they break down demographics and contributing factors. Thai Traffic Accident Statistics from the Department of Land Transport (DLT) - https://www.dlt.go.th - Sttats on vehicle registrations, driving licenses issued, and technical enforcement info like checkpoints, speeding fines, and helmet/seatbelt usage. Asian Development Bank (ADB) - https://www.adb.org ADB has done road safety assessments in Southeast Asia region including Thailand. They publish broader regional road safety outlooks and policy analysis. Royal Thai Police (RTP) - https://www.royalthaipolice.go.th Hmmmm – this lot collect crash reports and compile annual traffic accident stats but the data is soften inconsistent or underreported (especially with injury categories), but it’s still a key source for the media. Havr you ever seen and RTP rash report?? Their data is responsible for the myth of data only reported at the scene. Others go much further than this iRAP (International Road Assessment Programme) - https://www.irap.org – Very useful site; they’ve assessed road infrastructure safety in Thailand and rated high-risk roads. Good for understanding how road design contributes to accident risks. Bloomberg Philanthropies Initiative for Global Road Safety (BIGRS) - https://www.bloomberg.org/program/public-health/road-safety/, They’ve been partnering Thai cities (like Bangkok) and NGOs to improve road safety for many years…. Reports offer data and also track policy and enforcement impact. ThaiHealth (Thai Health Promotion Foundation) - https://www.thaihealth.or.th A quango-like independent state agency that works on public health campaigns, like road safety. They produce public reports on helmet use, drink-driving, etc. Then there is academic research - databases like Google Scholar, PubMed and ResearchGate There is also a recently formed a Parliamentary Advisory Group on Road Safety. This was formed to address the country's high rate of road traffic fatalities and injuries - supported by the World Health Organization (WHO) and other partners, it aims to strengthen laws, policies, and actions related to road safety. The group is responsible for shaping and assessing legislation, conducting studies, making policy recommendations, and engaging with various stakeholders to enhance accountability and public interest in road safety measures. - https://www.who.int/news/item/17-04-2024-thailand-s-new-road-safety-parliamentary-advisory-group-takes-aim-at-road-crashes?utm_source=chatgpt.com The aim behind this group is to the Second Decade of Action for Road Safety 2021–2030, which seeks to reduce road traffic deaths and injuries by 50% by 2030. Those more cynical note this is the “second decade” – actually there have been several periods assigned to improving road safety – thy have a habit of fizzling out! However this time the org is modelled on a UK model the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety (PACTS). There are also Australian and Swedish organisations tying to help and influence the authorities who have previously remained obstinately cloth-eared - https://www.thaienquirer.com/52314/opinion-inaction-on-road-safety/?utm_source=chatgpt.com If you genuinely want to learn about road safety in Thailand you need to do more than just “Google” Remember to that on Google you need to have “research” skills rather than just a plain “search” to get fruitful results – such is the level of misinformation in the general media.

Statistics gathered during Covid can be quite different from before 2020 and after 2022. there are several organisations and Quangos that are now gathering stats for road safety in Thailand.

No-one bothers to read the annual WHO road safety reports. In fact they DO use orh=ther statistics - one problem with Thailand is over the years they haven't gathered statistics that conform to international standards. They are changing a bit since Covid. For motorcycle deaths which account for 75 to80% of Thai road deaths - As I've said before if you just take DEATHS per 100k pop for 4-wheeled vehicles the death rate is LOWER than in the USA. This is an example of how perception is skewed by simply looking at death rates per 100k pop.

Appreciate the reply, but you’re still kind of missing the bigger picture. Yes, Thailand’s road fatality rate is high — no argument there. But quoting raw numbers without context (or understanding how they’re actually used in road safety analysis) doesn’t help. It just feeds a tired narrative: “Thais are bad drivers.” That’s not analysis — it’s lazy stereotyping. And let’s acknowledge that most foreigner’s takes on Thai driving are built on anecdote and bias, not data, and the plural of anecdote is not data. I've seen it over 20 years too. Most people think they understand the problem, but they’re looking at it through the wrong lens. You mention deaths per 100k — but ignore that 75–80% are motorcyclists. If you're in a car in Thailand, you're statistically safer than in the U.S. That’s a “fact”. The issue isn’t “bad habits” — it’s a broken system: weak enforcement, bad infrastructure, and lack of a coordinated national strategy. The RTP? Yeah, they need a massive overhaul — but that’s not just a traffic issue, it’s a deep structural and constitutional one. And seatbelts in the UK? Sure — but that was part of a long-term, all-out campaign. Thailand needs the same: real reform, not just blaming drivers. Bottom line: road safety is a public health issue, not a moral failing. You want to fix it? Start with data, not Thai forum stats and old expat war stories.

You cite raw fatality numbers as if they stand alone, but completely ignore context or standard metrics used in road safety analysis – like deaths per million inhabitants, per 100,000 registered vehicles, or per 10 billion vehicle-km. These figures tell a very different story when properly compared across nations. What you're doing isn't presenting facts – it’s cherry-picking stats to reinforce your personal bias about Thailand. Let’s get something straight: quoting raw fatality numbers without context isn’t “fact-sharing” — it’s alarmist noise that ignores how road safety is actually measured. Yes indeed, Thailand reports around 20,000 road deaths annually, and yes! the WHO has ranked it high globally in terms of absolute numbers. But unless you understand how these figures fit into a wider analytical framework — one used by actual road safety experts — you’re not making a meaningful point. I doubt you’ve read any of those reports or know how and by who those stats are gathered….. For real road safety assessments, internationally standardized comparative indicators are used, including: Deaths per 1 million inhabitants Serious injuries per capita Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-km travelled Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles Vehicle ownership rates per 1,000 people Furthermore injuries are divided into 3 injury categories – minor, serious and fatal yet you choose to ignore that completely only talking about deaths and not even understanding the significance of “per 100 thousand population” Without all this, raw figures are just clickbait. Comparing Thailand’s raw death count to the UK, for instance, ignores key structural differences: Thailand has far more motorcycles per capita, more rural roads with mixed traffic, limited public transport options, and a very different enforcement culture. All of this affects outcomes. (do you realise that commercial vehicles are banned at times over SongKhran?) But here’s the deeper issue: this isn’t about stats. It’s about your confirmation bias. You’re using cherry-picked data to reinforce a narrative you already believe — that "Thais are bad drivers." That’s not only intellectually lazy, it borders on racial stereotyping. Road safety is a public health issue systemic problem and not a moral failing of a nationality. It involves infrastructure design, vehicle safety standards, driver education, law enforcement, urban planning, and data-driven policymaking. Reducing it to “people drive badly here” completely misses the point — and reveals a lack of understanding about what causes road trauma in the first place. Have you ever heard of the “5Es”?? And your claim of supposed “wisdom” from long-term residency. I’ve driven over 400,000 miles in Thailand in the last 20 years too — but I don’t take that as license to make sweeping generalizations about 70 million people. In fact, long exposure often just reinforces anecdotal bias, especially if you’ve decided from the outset that "the locals" are the problem. Songkran is tragic every year — but the response shouldn’t be to repeat tired clichés and share Facebook-statistics. It should be about improving data quality, pushing for policy reform, and increasing public pressure for meaningful change. Anything less is just noise — and we've all heard enough of that.

And there is another comment that is completely uninformed and misled on road safety. Just a srmtring of cliches and cynicism covering the ignorance

Well they together with ALL other vehicles except 2-wheelers compric==se about 20% of all caualties - in fact on or in a 4-wheeled vehicle in Thailand you are LESS likely to dies than in the USA.

Well read my posts.

and there you go1