007 RED

Ms MoneyBaht and I regularly travel to various parts of Thailand for holidays (as though life as a retiree isn’t already one long holiday).  These trips last anything from a couple of days to a couple of weeks.  We have stayed in a mix of guest houses and hotels.  Ms MoneyBaht always checks us in using her Thai ID and the guesthouse/hotel has never asked for my passport.  As a result, I doubt immigration have any record of my travels. 

Question 1….. How do I stand if the guesthouse/hotel has not registered me?  Should I inform my local IO when I go on ‘walkabouts’?

Ms MoneyBaht and I live in Phutthamonthon (house in Ms MoneyBaht’s name) which I consider to be my main place of residence.  I have a yellow book linked to the house and I’m registered with the Nakhon Pathom IO.  I also I have a condo (in my name) in BKK which Ms MoneyBaht and I use on a regular basis when we come into BKK shopping or need to visit the hospital etc. Stays at the condo are usually only a couple of nights at most.

Question 2… Should I also be registered with the local IO in BKK?

Many thanks in advance for any constructive comments.

2 minutes ago, perthperson said:

No mistake ! It has been challenged and the response (if I remember correctly ) cited that "difficulties" were associated with accepting £sterling or any other currency 

'Someone' is saying that the British Government are having "difficulties" with accepting GBP ?????  Next they will be asking UK citizens to pay their income tax in USD.  I know that the UK is paddling up the preverbal creek with Brexit, but that would be the last straw.

Sorry I've gone off post.  But I will check with my colleague back in the UK.

1 hour ago, perthperson said:

Check the link and discover the cost of a UK visa --- All charged in US$ if applied or from Thailand. 

 

https://visa-fees.homeoffice.gov.uk/y/thailand/usd/visit/standard-visitor/all

Thanks for the link… It certainly does states 120$ for a standard short term visa.

I see that at the top of the page it states BETA trial service… I am aware that the FOC is currently in the process of standardising their website so that they look the same throughout the world, with only minimal local info - see the British Embassy Thailand website… There is no logical reason why the UK Government would charge for its services in US$, so I suspect this could be a mistake.  I’ll query this with one of my old colleagues who works in the FOC.

As you are no doubt aware, UK visa applications in Thailand are handled by VFS.GLOBAL.  If you go to their website for Thailand, click on ‘KNOW YOUR VISA TYPE’ and then follow the link on the page to UK Government website for visa and immigration in Thailand, then by inputting Thailand then standard visitor you will go to https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa. At the bottom of this page you will see the visa fees. The cost of a standard visitor visa as £89.  The page was updated 11 July 2017.

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Aw shit, mine's only a normal visa..........linked to a Flex Account. Cheers.

It's only a couple of quid anyway, but it's the principle. Why should we pay the BRITISH Embassy in AMERICAN dollars?

Are you sure the British Embassy asked you to pay in US$ ????  If so, what was the service they provided? 

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Just did probably my +200th entry to Thailand over about 24 years after a short business trip to Saigon, flipping the passports as I do to stop one filling up too fast. No questions asked about the other passport that enabled my previous entry and stay and was processed through their system less than 3 days earlier.

 

Both my current passports, renewed within a month of each other, have identical photographs, same name, same date of birth, same place of birth, just different issue/expiry dates and numbers.

 

Still no questions asked by Immigration about either passport.

 

To whom should I write to make a complaint?

Not sure why you want to complain.   There’s nothing illegal in holding two, or more, passports provided that they are yours and they are genuine.

When a person has dual citizenships they are entitled to hold a passport from each country.  Obviously the country code and passport numbers will be different, but the immigration system is capable of linking the two passports together using the other data contained in the code at the bottom of the photo page.

In others cases a person may request a second passport from his/her country of citizenship because they visit certain countries (for example Israel) and this may subsequently hinder them from entering another country (for example: an Arab country).

Where someone has two passports issued by the same country, with either a change in number or names, the immigration system will pick this up and again link both passports together.

As I said before, we (forum members) don’t have all the facts.  We only have one side of the ‘story’, which with no disrespect to the OP can be ‘clouded’ and prejudiced by the events that have suddenly be fronted him.  Unfortunately it’s all too easy to jump to conclusions, which in some cases in this thread have been way off the mark.

1 hour ago, Hockley said:

To clear up the eye scan query, airports and border check points have installed or are installing eye scanners but for now it is only available for those holding a Thai passport. 

FYI….  In October 2015 RTP announced that they were going to introduce facial recognition systems at all boarder checkpoints in order to speed up the immigration screening process.  They have also indicated that they propose to introduce fingerprinting.

I think what you’re talking about is in fact facial recognition systems, not an iris scanning systems.  Most modern passports now incorporate biometric chips which contain the image of the passport holder.  The biometric image can then be used by a facial recognition system to compare with the person in front of the camera which in turn can be linked to automatic gates.  These have been introduced at swampy for Thai nationals only at the moment.

In order for an iris scanning system to function, the person must first have their iris data registered in the system.  The system is then able to compare a person’s iris in front of the scanner with the those contained in its database.  Iris scanning was introduced at several UK airports in late 2004 but they were subsequently withdrawn a few years latter due to poor reliability and constant problems encountered by travelers trying to get their eyes properly aligned with the camera.  May people found it quicker to join the queues and get their passport checked by an IO.

1 hour ago, tolsti said:

Whilst I do understand that many countries require APIS I am not aware that Thailand does, at this time, require it. Most refusals at the check in desk are based on the airline database of requirements (i.e. Ticket out of the country within the stated duration of stay) but not APIS. If it were when how do all the criminals and kiddie fiddlers get in? it would be so easy for the courts to add a block to their APIS info.

FYI....   API came into effect in Thailand in December 2015.  The airlines are only required to provide passenger passport details (Name, Gender, Date of Birth, Nationality, Country of Residence, Travel Document Type/Number/Expiry Date) before flight’s departure.  The airlines do not have access to any passenger’s criminal history.

Upon receiving the API from the airlines, immigration run the data through their systems to check if any of the passengers are known to them.  If a passenger is banned from entering Thailand for any reason then immigration will notify the airline not to accept the passenger for travel.

Disclosure of a passenger’s criminal history is very much dependent upon the law enforcement agency of the country of origin of the passenger.  In most cases such information is only shared in exceptional cases or when Interpol issues an international arrest warrant.

Bazza73… The link below is to the UK embassy page which will give you some idea of what the British embassy requires in order to provide a letter confirming income.  Obviously your embassy requirements may well differ.  I’ve looked at the Autralian embassy website, but they don’t appear to provide any guidance on obtaining a letter confirming income, so you may do well to contact your embassy and ask what info and documents they require.

FYI… The letter confirming income from the British embassy states the requestor’s; passport details; address; income amount monthly and annually; income sources (not amounts).   The letter is signed by an approved consular official.

Hope this helps

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/573863/Pension_7_12_16.pdf

1 hour ago, asean said:

007 correct, why did you think the IO used section 12(3)?  Because he  had no evidence of and couldn't apply the other sections 12 (1) to (12). And because neither foreigner or the IO will be able to disprove 12(3) no appeal will be allowed.

Sorry, but once again neither you, or I, are in possession of the full facts and we should not jump to conclusions.  With no disrespect, you are making assumptions that the IO did not have any evidence to support his/her refusal under Section 12(3).  As I said in an earlier post, if the OP unfortunately had a CV or certificates in his luggage when the IO inspected his bag(s) then this would be sufficient grounds for the IO to suspect that the OP may be intending to seek work.

FYI… Section 12 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 only comprises 11 paragraphs, not 12 as you indicated.  Also you are incorrect when you state that "no appeal will be allowed".  Section 22 of the Immigration Act gives the individual the right to appeal against IO’s decision to refuse entry.  If the OP exercises his right to an appeal, then the IO will need provide evidence to support his/her grounds for refusing entry.

18 minutes ago, asean said:

007 they saw his passport and saw too many tourist entries. That is all. It has nothing to do with work. They telling him if you want to stay here that long then go get a real visa. This has happened many many times and more often lately and this is simply how the officers explain it to me. Unless he can prove he has family here then his chances of appeal are very very slim. Many times showing directorship or shareholding on a Thai company can help too. Also note that many business people travel frequently to Thailand on tourist visas and the reason they rarely get pulled up is their lengths of stay are pretty short.

I should be interested to know what law there is that states you cannot have more than ‘x’ Tourist Visas in your passport.  If such a law exists, then the IO would have endorsed the OP’s passport accordingly and not refused entry under Section 13(3) of the Immigration Act which relates to obtaining work.

As I said, we don’t have all the facts so we shouldn’t jump to conclusions.

In his original post the OP stated that his passport has been stamped entry refused because of Section  13(3). 

Ubonjoe has signposted that Section 12(3) of the Immigration Act indicates – “Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by using physical without skills training or to work in violation of the Ministerial Regulations”.

It is possible that the OP was initially drawn to one side to enquire about the number of 'tourist visas' which he had in his passport, and then during a subsequent inspection of his luggage the IO found some paperwork such as a CV or certificates etc. which gave them cause for concern that the OP may be seeking work here.

Without the full details/facts we are just guessing, so we shouldn’t jump to conclusions.

I would concur with Ubonjoe that the OP’s best option is to file an appeal if he can prove that he meets the visa requirements and that has not worked whilst staying here previously and has no intention of working during this visit. 

1,900BHT for 7 days board and lodgings isn’t that bad.

I would endorse the points Udonjoe has made above. 

With regard to your point 3, just be aware that a few (3 or 4) immigration offices around BKK are now insisting that the signature on the letter from your embassy confirming your income be verified by the MFA, so you may wish to check with your local IO if this is required before presenting the letter.

Sorry if you go to the district office on Monday you may be the only person there as its a public holiday and the offices will be closed.

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:35 PM, kamalabob2 said:

The Pink Thai ID card for Foreigners has proven helpful many times in Buriram. SIM cards, post paid AIS Mobile phone service, CAT and AIS fiber internet, depositing a USA check at Bangkok Bank all go smooth with that card. I keep a photo of my Passport on my phone if the clerk needs that number. Delivery to my home from local stores seems to go better as they can read the address in Thai. Senior discount on BTS, MRT, movies with that card in my personal experience. It also shows your height in cm.  If I do not have my Government Hospital card I show the pink ID and they can quickly look up my medical records at the Government Hospital. The Yellow house book has worked perfect for many drivers licenses and registering two new vehicles in my name at the Buriram Land Transportation Office. I obtained PWA and PEA utility service in my name using my yellow house book. Years ago I obtained TOT land line phone service in my name using the yellow house book.  No TEA money for the above tasks as I was "papered', but there may be some procedures where chocolate cake for government office staff goes a long way. 

Hi kamalabob2,  I would be very interested to know where, and how, you managed to obtained a BTS Senior Rabbit Card using your ‘pink’ Thai ID card.

Looking at the BTS website http://www.bts.co.th/customer/en/16-rabbit-condition-adult.aspx it clearly states “Senior Rabbit card Senior Rabbit card may only be used by Thai Senior Citizens aged 60 years and over, according to date of birth as shown on Citizen ID, which must be presented upon request be BTS Staff”.  The ‘pink’ ID card does not give you Thai citizenship.

Being well over 70 and somewhat curious, this morning I stopped off at the Rabbit Information Center in Siam BTS station and enquired if my ‘pink’ ID was sufficient proof of my age to acquire a Senior card. 

The customer service assistant very politely advised me that Rabbit Senior Citizen Cards are only available to Thai citizens.  She did, however, confide that MRT will give me an “Elder” card on production of any proof of age over 65 years regardless of nationality.  The card provides a 50% discount from the full fare.

It will be interesting to see what happens when BTS and MRT have a single card system.

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That does not mean a translation is needed. The flow chart covers all certifications including translations.

Again... many thanks for the heads up. 

If anyone has had their embassy letter confirming income authenticated by the MFA and can confirm that translation is/is not required I would be very grateful.  I don't want to get to the MFA and find that I need to have the embassy letter translated.  That would be a real pain plus extra cost. 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Unfortunately for you the office you have to use is one of 3 or so that want the signature on the income letter verified. 

Check the flow show chart in English (click to enlarge) here for info on getting it done at the Department of Consular Affairs. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/71860-ขั้นตอนการรับรองนิติกรณ์เอกสาร---Legalization-Proc.html

They will put a sticker on it similar to this one.

Many thanks ubonjoe for your input and the MFA flowchart, much appreciated.  I note that on the flowchart it mentions that the document needs to be translated.  Is this the case (re: your post #32) ?? 

I was also informed last year at Rai Khing IO (Nakhon Pathom) when extending my Retirement Visa that the letter from the British Embassy conforming my income needs to be authenticated by the MFA.  I have been extending my visa at the same IO for the past 5 years and I’m on good terms with the staff who normally give quick and good service.  

When I asked why this was necessary the officer said that had encountered a number of forgeries of the letter and that this was now a national requirement.  The officer agreed that on that occasion to extend my visa without the MFA stamp, but said that next year I would require the MFA stamp on the Embassy letter.

On returning home I contacted the Consular officer who issued my letter by email and she advised that they (the British Embassy) had not been informed of any change in procedures from immigration HQ.  She stated that the local IO’s do, however, have the power to require additional information as they see fit.

Last week I visited my local IO for 90 day reporting.  When the officer handed my passport back to me she reminded me that if I submit an embassy letter of income to support my renewal in September it must be verified by MFA.  When I got home and checked the notification slip I saw that a note to the effect that I had been reminded was made on the confirmation slip so I can’t say that they didn’t tell me.

I again contacted the Consular Section at the British Embassy and they reiterated what they had said before, adding that they had mentioned the issue at a meeting last year with the Commissioner who stated that there was no change in procedures.  According to the officer who replied to my enquiry, I appear to be the only person who has experienced this problem.

I’m lucky that going to the MFA in BKK is not really a major problem.  Just a waste of time and added cost.  A preverbal pain the rear end.  The IO have you by the ‘short and curlies’.  If this is a 'national requirement' I see major problems for those who live further away.

Has anyone else experienced this problem ?