007 RED

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

 

At the point you are denied entry, the airline becomes responsible for you. They are normally expected to return you promptly to your last point of embarkation. I imagine you could talk to the airline representative. If you propose flying immediately to another location at no expense to themselves, I cannot imagine they would have any objection.

 Sorry Tim... The airline is only responsible when they have allowed a passenger to fly after receiving a 'Refuse Boarding Code' through the Advance Passenger Information System.

If a passenger is refused entry, they will be escorted to the detention area at the airport.  Depending upon the immigration officer, and the reason why they have been refused entry, there are two options:

1)  The IO will determine the route of departure, or

2)  The passenger can determine where they wish to go.

In both the above, the passenger will be liable for the purchase of the air ticket and possibly any costs incurred with the detention.  Once it has been decided where the passenger is going to go the IO will contact the airline and a representative will come to the detention area to make the ticket booking.

During the process the passenger will be given an official document indicating the reason for refusal and his/her rights to an appeal.  Prior to departure the passenger's passport is stamped with an exit stamp plus an exclusion stamp and if appropriate a stamp indicating that the passenger is banned from entering Thailand for a number of years.

The above procedure is in accordance with the Immigration Act B.E. 22522 section 55.   Note the word deportation in the Act also applies to excluded due to refused entry.

52 minutes ago, mikebell said:

Outlook comes up as standard but I don't know what button to hit for 'Send.'

I assume that you want to 'Save' the changes once you have set Outlook to attach as a copy.  It appears that once you have selected what functions you want, it automatically saves those setting... You just need to click on the Options arrow at the top left to return to your Outlook page.

Hope that's what you want to know.

37 minutes ago, The Girl said:

Hey, I visited the Thai Legalization Division with my ETD, police report+translation and letter from the embassy. I filled out an application form for "Legalization of documents". I was told that only documents produced by Thai authorities i.e the police report and its translation can be legalized.The ETD and letter are already authentic documents as they are issued by the SA embassy.

 

During this process, they did not ask to see my passport, just a copy. So they have no way of knowing whether I am an overstayer or not. It seemed to me that they do not read the content and particulars on the documents submitted. You are just a ticket number. No questions about identity or legality of stay. They are just authenticating Thai documents only - division of labour is highly exercised in Thailand in that no one wants to do someone else's job if they won't be paid for it (my opinion).

 

Anyway, they charged me about 300bahts per page. After filling out the application, I received a ticket number, waited in line, submitted my documents and was told to return in 4 working days with the ticket. After 4 days I waited 10 minutes for the collection and walked out of the building with ZERO hesitation. I was nervous and prepared for the worst but it was the IO who assisted me. Literally, no one asked for my passport. At the Legalization Division, perhaps, they assume everyone is there to legalize valid documents so they are legal aliens. Lucky for me! Yes, this was a long time ago and my visa had expired just a few days prior(less than a week).

From what you have described, you went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Department of Consular Affairs - Legalisation Division. Many of us have to go there to get documents/signatures authenticated.  If the front of the building looked like the attached photo, that's where you went.... FYI... They are not part of immigration so would not have been concerned about your overstay.

Good luck 

There will be no mention of your overstay on the documents which you will hand to the airline check in clerk, and they will not ask you if you have overstayed... so don't worry about that.

FYI - Most airlines open their check in counters 3 hours before the flight is due to depart, so would suggest getting there as early as possible to allow sufficient time to deal with immigration.

Good luck

Jo... I stand to be corrected, but the 300k needs to be in the bank for no less than 60 days on the day of filling for the extension and as well as the letter from the bank confirming the funds it is wise to get the bank book updated on the day of filling in case the IO asks to see it.

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

... it is good to know that some airlines do not take deportees but cant they be compelled to do so by immigration if the deportee has purchased a ticket with them?

The only time that immigration can compel an airline to transport a passenger is if the airline ignored an APIS feedback code to deny boarding.  The airline would then be compelled to return the passenger to their point of departure.

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

If the immigration lets The Girl leave BKK after paying the overstay fine of 20k I dont think she is being deported by Kenya Airways.

Correct in assuming that if the OP pays the fine she is not being deported and therefore the airline would have no reason to refuse to board her.

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Alternatively, Kenya Airways cant say we wont have her because her case sucks. 

Carriage of any passenger is solely at the discretion of the airline.  They can refuse to transport anyone even if they have a valid ticket to travel.

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I dont think I understand what is deportation now.

Deportation is the expulsion of a person, or group of people, from a place, or country.

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

If the Girl fails to pay 20k and is taken to IDC will she be brought in time for the Kenya Airways flight to NBO? Or will she be kept there until she can put up another 10k considering she had paid 10k? 

If the OP fails to pay the fine the likelihood is that she will initially be held in the IDC at the airport and given the opportunity to obtain the necessary funds to pay the fine.  If she is unable to obtain the funds she will then be transferred to immigrations main detention centre in Bangkok.  Obviously she would miss her flight and the airline will automatically cancel her ticket (as a no show).  She will then not only have to find the funds to pay her fine, but will also have to find the money to purchase a new ticket back to SA.

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Do you mean playing and sitting by yourself? or was it play with your guitar case open? or was it on stage? Very curious as it is hard to believe that playing music is a crime. And who was the immigration officer, man or woman, old or young?  

The OP originally stated that he was Basking.... but we think this was a typo... and he actually meant Busking.... Busking would indicate that he was collecting donations of some description.... which according to Thai Law meant that he was working without a permit.

36 minutes ago, lkv said:

I believe that most information required by API is provided by the passenger at checkin. When checkin finishes, the airline forwards the complete API. When the passenger arrives into Thailand, the IO swipes the passport and then a ban comes up or not.

So in my opinion I don't believe it happens realtime with ok codes, with the exception of the US.

 

I stand to be corrected.

FYI - In the aftermath of 911,  I worked for a good number of years on the development of an eBoarder system which eventually came to be known as APIS.  I also assisted with the installation of the system in a number of countries so can say with some confidence that I have a very good insight into how the system works.

Many countries around the world (including Thailand) now require inbound international airlines to provide basic passenger data prior to the individual boarding the flight.  The basic data comprises:  Passport Number; Country Code; Gender; Date of Birth; First and Family Names.  This information is normally collected during online booking, or online check in or at check in.   The possible passenger information is sent by the airline normally 24 hours before departure of the flight, but the system will allow the airline to send individual passenger data as little as one our before boarding in order to cater for last minute bookings.

When the passenger data arrives at APIS server in Thailand it compares that data with that already held on the immigration database.  The process only takes a few seconds and it automatically feeds back a code to the airline indicating OK to board or deny boarding.  In the case of a deny boarding code the system does not give the airline any specific reason why boarding should be denied.

It should be remembered that when making the comparison, the APIS relies on the immigration database being accurate and up to date.  What's that old saying in the IT world -  Garbage in = Garbage out.

Airlines will not allow a passenger to board if they receive a deny boarding code as they will bear the cost of having to return the passenger plus they will incur a very substantial fine.

As well as comparing passenger data with that held by immigration it also compares it with the customs system in case they may know of any reason why the passenger should not enter.  The system does not stop there, it also notifies the country of departure law enforcement agencies about the passengers pending departure in case they may have a reason why the person should not travel.

FYI - there have been recent posts on this forum where someone was denied boarding.

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Why do the immigration need to know who was coming? I dont get it.

If they have been banned for whatever reason it is better to stop them flying rather than get to their destination an dbe sent back.

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Somebody here said that getting a visa is no guarantee that you will be let in by immigration as consulates/embassies and the immigration come under different ministries. So APIS has got the OK from immigration, can one assume that there will be no problems at the immigration desk upon landing in Thailand? 

FYI - that someone was me.

In basic essence, if the feedback code indicates the airline is OK to board the passenger, then the passenger should be OK to enter Thailand.  That said, you must remember that having a visa, or boarding clearance, is no guarantee that you will be allowed to enter Thailand.  The decision to admit you is made by the IO at the point of entry.  For example, he/she could refuse entry if you were unable to show that you could reasonably support your stay - hence the discussion regarding having 20K in your pocket.

Just now, visarunner said:

You will know when you plan to check in for a flight to Thailand. The passenger list is being check beforehand via online database from Immigration. Forgot what they called the system. 

 

The system is called Advance Passenger Information System (APIS).  Airlines are required to supply basic passenger information to the Thai Government before allowing a passenger to board the plane.  The information is feed into the Immigration System Databases which then compares the passenger information with data they hold....  The airline gets a feedback code which indicates OK to board or deny boarding.  The airline have no indication as to reason why boarding should be denied.

5 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

How much do they charge? Does this mean this agency has access to the immigration database? Wow.

The agency, or any other, does not have any access to the immigration databases.... they have brown envelopes which are passed under the table to illicit the information from a willing IO.

29 minutes ago, lkv said:

Not exactly.

 

I am aware of cases of people (and not suggesting this is the case of the OP), that have 99 year bans with no red stamp. Although they happened prior to 2014.

 

I have seen this red thing stamped in overstay cases, not entirely sure if they would stamp it in other cases of banning.

 

Bear in mind the OP was not on overstay, he was just deported.

 

Unlikely to be banned, but just saying.

I was specifically commenting on the OP's stamp and suggested that if he was banned there would most likely be an additional red stamp in close proximity to his exit/deportation stamps.

FYI - as the OP was effectively deported for working illegally and, therefore, immigration could impose a ban under the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 Section 12(2) - Having no means of living, or Section 12(11) - Being deported by the Government of Thailand... or having the right to stay in the Kingdom revoked...

As far as I am aware the banned stamp has been used for a number of years, but I do not know if they are used for 'life time' (99 year) bans.

I have a lovely stamp (not from Thailand I might add) in an old PP... it covers the whole page and reads PERSONA NON GRATA... in red.   The officials who escorted me to the plane informed me that it was a life time ban and if I was ever to return they would put me in prison and throw away the key.  Needles to say I have heeded their advice.

18 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

How come consulates do not have access to information that the immigration department has? Wont they be remiss in their duties if they grant a visa which is then countermanded by the immigration because the applicant is blacklisted?

Most Thai Embassies/Consulates throughout the world do not have access to the Immigration databases.  At best they are only able to send basic details (visa number; type; date if issue/expiry; passport number and name of holder) of visas that they have issued.  In some cases they have to send the application and accompanying documents to Immigration in Bangkok for approval.

You also need to remember that having been issued with a visa is no guarantee that you will be allowed to enter a country.  The decision to allow you to enter, or refuse you entry, is at the discursion of the immigration officer at your port of entry. 

FYI - Thai Embassies/Consulates come under the control of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA).... Immigration comes under the control of the Minister of the Interior.   These are two totally separate Thai Government bodies and it is not unusual for the MFA to have slightly different interpretation of the rules/procedures from Immigration. 

19 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

If you can read that then "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" can you give me the Thai? 

There is an example of a deportation stamp earlier which says how long the ban lasts, I would expect to see some time limit on this example as well.  

If you are referring to the stamp which the OP originally posted, then it comprises the normal triangular Exit Stamp (dated 18 May 2017)... under that is the red Deportation Stamp which indicates the reason and fine.   If the OP was banned there would be another red rectangular stamp (as I've posted) very close to the Exit and Deported Stamps.   The Banned Stamp will indicate the length of ban (in this case 1 year) which starts from the day the OP exited Thailand.

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

What if she has lost that as well?

Immigration will get her to fill in a new one and cross reference the new number with her original one.

2 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

She is not planning to return though. She hasnt said anything about not having the TM6 card, what is it?

TM6 is the departure card which is the second part of the card you give the IO on your arrival.

56 minutes ago, timendres said:

This stamp looks very similar to the stamp I get if I file my 90 day report late. I believe it is simply documenting payment of a fine that is related to immigration. The image is not clear enough for me to read the Thai, so I cannot tell you what it says exactly.

If you go back to page 1...Post No. 7 you will see what a 'banned' stamp looks like.

6 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

How long will this thread be running...until she has safely landed in HBO or something?

FYI - HBO is only a transit stop where she will change flights to South Africa.

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Red, I have a question. How would she be digging her hole any deeper? You mean by picking and choosing and not doing what she should do to get out of the hole ie by working at the Language Centre whatever that is?

She already has a problem because of her overstay - the metaphorical hole she is already dug for herself. 

If it now comes to immigration's attention that she is teaching English at the language centre without a work permit (which she won't have), she is then working illegally and this could result in her being arrested, taken to Court, fined and deported - this would be digging the metaphorical hole even deeper.

2 hours ago, The Girl said:

Actually, Red, I did not say I am currently working. I said I may take the suggestion of working at a Language Center to raise money. Seeing that it is illegal, I will not do it. There is no case of investigation without illegal commission (except financing my overstay - which WU receipts should do the talking). Instead, I will channel that "working" towards fundraising from family and friends from SA. That's the only hard "work" I will be doing. 

Sorry but you seemed to have changed your story again... I notice that in your post 183 you have deleted the first paragraph which originally stated:

"Hi. In as much as it is very risky to do so, I have resorted to spending at least 7-8 hours at the language center per day (incl. weekends). I have raised an additional of 2k after pawning some stuff. So I need 8k  by next week. Remember that I had 10k already".

If you are not working, then what is so risky to spend 7-8 hours at the language centre per day (including weekends)?

As I, and other contributors, have said before....  having dug yourself into a hole, stop digging it any deeper.

If your friends and relatives are able to send you funds to support you, and you have recent WU receipts to confirm this all the better for you.

Once again, best of luck.

FYI.... RED = Retired & Extremely Dangerous 

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, they have other things to do.

So what is the purpose of immigration?

15 minutes ago, The Girl said:

What if I have Western Union receipts proving that I have received money from SA? Could they examine and question me further than the point of complying with their departure rules? Documents: check. Fine: check. Flight: check. Remorse: check.

 

I just have to hope for the best since I haven't been the best tourist.   

If you produce a Western Union receipt make sure that it is for a plausible amount and very recently dated.... whatever you do don't dig the hole any deeper.

Good luck.

21 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you are a bit over the top with your assumption that immigration would even bother trying to identify the OP on departure. Do you really think immigration has that much spare time or interest to do that.

The max fine is 20,000 baht for overstay so how would the 3rd degree raise the fine.

Do you really think immigration has that much spare time or interest to do that?.  ..... Yes - How many IOs are there?  It only takes one to pick this discussion up and notify the senior IO at BKK, who then just need to put a notice up on the 'fine counter' to look out for a 7 month overstay travelling on KQ861and question them about illegal working.

The max fine is 20,000 baht for overstay so how would the 3rd degree raise the fine.  Agreed the maximum fine for overstay is 20K, but what is the fine for working illegally which could be imposed additionally?

6 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I know immigration does sometimes browse this board. Also, I agree that further discussion of illegal working should best be avoided. Better just to say"getting the extra funds I need is now under control". That said, I cannot see immigration going to any great lengths to identify the OP and give her the third degree when she leaves through the airport.

It only takes one IO to even casually look at this forum and pick up on this discussion to start the 'ball rolling' and tip of BKK IO.  It won't be that difficult to identify her during departure.  How many people on a Kenyan Airways flight are going to have 7 month's overstay?   3rd degree = additional fine.