007 RED

Hi folks

Many thanks for all those who gave me some input to my question it is much appreciated.  It’s just a shame that a couple of members keep taking the opportunity to have a go at each other no matter what the topic.

Some feedback.

As mentioned in my original post, Miss MoneyBaht and I have been married for nearly 10 years and I have been living here on a retirement extension for the past 6 years, and I was wondering what the benefits/downsides are regarding retirement v marriage extensions.

I am well aware of the additional paperwork, photos, witnesses and visits required to secure a marriage extension.  I appreciate that this can be a hassle for some, but personally it does not worry me.  Just another hurdle to jump over.

Call me old fashion, but I have to agree with the posters comment regarding that it displays a commitment given the fact that his wife went to a lot of trouble to change her name and all that that involved (ID; passport; blue book; health records etc.).

Regarding the differences in financial requirements between the 2 types of extensions that doesn’t really enter into the equation so far as I’m concerned.

I wasn’t aware that if you have a marriage extension you are able to work, which you cannot if you hold a retirement extension.  As I’ve worked for over 50 years of my life and hung up my Walther PKK over 6 years ago, there’s no way that I want to start working again.  I enjoy the ability to do what I want, when I want to without having to fill out ‘time sheets’ and ‘expenses forms’ any more.

The comments given by a couple of contributors regarding what happens if your wife dies before you raised some concerns in my mind.  If I have a marriage extension and my wife passes away, I’m effectively left without permission to stay as the marriage extension then becomes instantly void.  I really don’t relish the thought of an IO could telling me to leave within 5 days.

After discussing the pros and cons with Miss MoneyBaht, we have come to the conclusion that I will stick with the retirement extension, which I will renew next week.

Once again, many thanks for your input, its been much appreciated.

6 hours ago, Moonlover said:

If this issue of payment had not been raised by the OP, I would not have been aware of this these changes, so I'm very thankful that he did. One of my criticisms of the FCO is that they do not publish a local newsletter that we can subscribe to, to keep us informed of these enhancements. Is it a case of ''when in Rome''?

 

I have just used the email service and I'm pleased witht result. I  sent the application last Wednesday, payment was taken on the the Thursday and I received my letter yesterday (Wednesday). That's 5 working days, including 1 day in transit.

 

I can also confirm that, if you use a UK bank card, payment is taken directly in Sterling. I read in an earlier post that the embassy use Barclay's for their card transactions. This is probably how they are able to bypass the usual THB/GBP exchanges. It may also explain why they are unable to accept Thai debit cards.

 

And I do not begrudge them the 63 Baht handling charge!

I agree with your comment regarding the embassy providing decent update information on their website.  It appears that the British Embassy in BKK no longer has control over the content on the website.  The FCO as recently adopted a policy of standardisation across the world, so that one embassy site looks very much the same as all the others.

Unfortunately, the downside being that there is little/no scope for relevant local input by embassy staff.  May be this is something that TV members could raise with the embassy via email.

Glad to hear that everything went well with your request by email….. and you saved yourself the EMS postage fee (37 Baht)

14 hours ago, OJAS said:

Hmm, not so sure that I would be particularly happy about sending a completed credit card authorisation form by email, though.

Life as a whole is not without risks of one form or another. 

If you send your CC details by EMS post there is no guarantee that your letter will not get ‘lost’ on route, or delivered to the wrong address.  If that happens someone is able to easily read your CC information without any problems.

If you attach photos (or scanned documents) to an email it is encrypted on route between you and the recipient….. If you look at the internet address bar at the top of your screen you will see a small black padlock… that indicates that the communication is encrypted using SSL… if you click on the padlock you will get more details.

If your email is intercepted, then some fairly sophisticated software is required to decrypt the attachment and then a good optical character recognition software to be to read the data held on the photo/scanned document.

Yes it’s possible to intercept and read the contents of your email, but I personally would put the risk as very, very low.

6 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

thanks for that   out of interest  is this a new addition    ??  i can quite believe my  inattentiveness  could be at fault  anyway thanks again   

I think that for most regulars its a case of printing out the form that we used last year, so this 'enhancement' is easy to overlook.

A good facility for those that live a distance away from a post office.  It will be interesting to get some feedback on how this works out.... good/bad/indifferent.

OP…. I appreciate your frustration… the Thai system can be overpowering at times.

I was very lucky when I applied for my yellow book, a good few years back.  Mrs MoneyBaht and I went to our local Amphor, completed the application form, submitted a copy of our Thai marriage certificate (which had my name translated into Thai on it), a copy of my passport page and a copy Mrs MoneyBaht’s Blue book.

We were informed that it would take about a week and they would call us when it was ready.  True to their word, in less than a week we were back at the office, paid a small fee and I was presented with the yellow book.  As a bonus the officer took us to the ID card section and a few minutes later I also had a pink ID card.

That said, a friend of ours who lives in another province experienced similar problems to you when he applied.  Mrs MoneyBaht and I accompanied him and his wife to their local Amphor and we were met with a stonewall of negatives and demands for various additional documents which also had to be translated into Thai and certified by MFA Consular Section. 

I could see that my friend was about to blow his top, which would have been the worst thing he could have done (loss of face etc).  So at that point I asked the officer to put in writing the reason for refusing the application based upon the documents supplied and requested that it be signed by the principle officer…. This is a process which all Government offices must comply with when refusing a service.

I thought that may shake them into action, but I was wrong.  About 30 minutes later the officer appeared with a typed letter stating the reasons for refusing the issue of a yellow book on the basis of the documents provided and listing the requirements for additional documents to support the application.  The letter was signed by the principal officer.

Within an hour of receiving that letter, a copy was faxed to the Ombudsman.  A member of the Ombudsman’s staff contacted my friend by phone shortly afterwards and said that they would contact the Amphor the next morning.

About 10am the following day my friend received a phone call from the principle officer at the Amphor who very politely requested that my friend return to the office to collect his yellow book.  Upon returning to the Amphor office my friend and his wife were shown to the principal’s office.  Apparently there were a few weak apologies for the inconvenience caused and lot of smiles.  They also had some photos taken of the yellow book being handed over (possibly to show the Ombudsman that they had complied with his instruction).

To be honest, I was a little concerned that there may be some repercussions at a later stage when the ‘smoke’ died down… Thankfully I was wrong.

Keep at it,… be polite and if need be ask them to put their reasons for refusing in writing.... What's that old saying about don't let the B+++++s grind you down.

Good luck

6 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

It can now be done by email. ?????since when  ??

I think they introduced this 'enhancement about a month ago... The info was not on the instruction sheet when I downloaded the form last month in preparation for getting my letter.

7 hours ago, Moonlover said:

The 37 Baht that you refer to is the postal charge. There is an additional charge for the EMS. The last time I sent a letter to Bangkok by EMS it cost me around 90 Baht.

 

So I'm afraid your calculations are completely null and void.

 

BTW, you no longer have to make supreme effort to drive 6km to post your letter. It can now be done by email. More time to relax huh!

 

 

Sorry, but you are the one who has got their calculations wrong.... The first doc is a copy of the embassy envelope with my letter and docs returned to me by EMS = 37 Baht...... The second doc is a copy of my receipt for sending my docs to the embassy by EMS = 37 Baht .

IMG_20170802_0004.pdf

The member Ubonjoe was referring to above was me.

I went to MFA Consular Division last week to get my embassy letter confirming income authenticated - additional enhancement required by my local IO.

I can confirm that the express (same day) service is available at 400 Baht per page (100 word per page).  Normal service is collect in 2 day at 200 Baht per page.

If you want same day service you must present the documents before 09:30.  Collect after 14:30.

They can also post documents back to you by EMS at extra small fee..

I arrived at 07:00 and left at 14:45. A long day.  Next time l will do as Ubonjoe suggested and get  them to post the documents back to me.

10 hours ago, lkv said:

Right OK.

 

I just went through the previous 15 page thread again:

 

 

To summarize:

 

- You were picked up by Immigration at 6 am on Feb 6 or Feb 7, 2012, along with another group of foreigners when the building you were staying in was raided. You were then taken to IDC, where you stayed until you were deported on March 2, 2012.

 

If you go back to the OPs original post on page 6 (dated 2 March), he states:

“I was  in my room sleeping.  The Immigration  raided us very early morning,,.it was around 6:30am, they raided all areas ,all soundings, so many people living that area, they raided almost 4 complex apartment.  Majority of people  living here are overstayers, if my number is correct,, almost 70 people  r overstayers for long time in thailand..but I never play with visa,very careful  person..it was thrusday  feb20,2012”.

If you look at the date on the deportation notice (TM35) which he posted on page 12 (dated 7 March) it is dated 2 February 2012... some 18 days before he claims that he was arrested.

Based upon the limited information that the OP has given, I have a feeling that there is a lot more to this than we are being told.  As has already been pointed out, bans for overstay were only introduced last year, and for someone to get a 'life time ban' he must have done something seriously wrong.  IOs don't give that sort of ban for no reason.

7 hours ago, cauldlad said:

As the UK embassy are allowing you to apply for the letter by email I assume they are now happy with scanned copies?

 

When applying by post they always insisted on sending them original documents which they would return.

 

Seems a bit of a turnaround.

 

 

My pension’s providers stopped sending ‘payslips’ out about 5 years ago.  Everything is now available online.  So for the past 5 years I’ve taken screen prints of payments that they have made for the previous 2 months and sent copies to the embassy.  Never been a problem, so scanned copies sent via email should be OK.

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Your link is bad it is only a thumbnail of the form. Go to this webpage to download the form and the credit card payment form. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

Thanks Joe for correcting my mistake.... problem is that you cannot check until you post.

I’ve been using the embassy income letter for the past 6 years for my retirement extension with no problems.  A couple of points worth mentioning though:

1..... A few (3 or 4) immigration offices around the BKK area are now asking for the embassy letter confirming income to be authenticated by the Consular Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  They say the reason is that they have been getting fake letters.  So worth checking with your local IO before turning up to have the goal posts moved.

2....The British Embassy in BKK has recently changed the application procedure for letters confirming income.  The service enhancement is that you can now apply for your letter by email    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/631665/thumbnail_Attachment_2.pdf.png

They will send your confirmation letter back by SMS at an additional cost (100BHT).

I concur with Ubonjoe… the British Embassy will certify a copy of your passport whilst you wait. 

You mentioned that you already have a copy of your passport translated… Does that include the notation which the Embassy will endorse on the copy?   If it doesn’t, then that needs to be included within the translation that you hand in at the Legalisation Department of the Consular Section of MFA. 

FYI…. There is a translation ‘shop’ on the 2nd floor of the Consular Section right in front of you as you go up the escalator… cost about 400BHt per page (100 words) and done in a about 30 minutes – the people who work in the shop also work in the MFA, so it’s very unlikely that there will be any problem with the certified translation.

FYI – The Legalisation Department is on the 3rd floor.  From the entrance foyer take the escalator up to the first 2nd floor.  As you get off the escalator, slightly to your left you will see a stair case which you take to the 3rd floor.  As you reach the top of these stairs to your left you will see a desk which has a basket of application forms.  You will need to complete a form. The link below is to the form if you want to fill it in before going to save timehttps://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.th&sl=th&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/form/1405/21210-%25E0%25B8%2584%25E0%25B8%25B3%25E0%25B8%25A3%25E0%25B9%2589%25E0%25B8%25AD%25E0%25B8%2587%25E0%25B8%2582%25E0%25B8%25AD%25E0%25B8%25A3%25E0%25B8%25B1%25E0%25B8%259A%25E0%25B8%25A3%25E0%25B8%25AD%25E0%25B8%2587%25E0%25B9%2580%25E0%25B8%25AD%25E0%25B8%2581%25E0%25B8%25AA%25E0%25B8%25B2%25E0%25B8%25A3.html&usg=ALkJrhj1phK-zSkgT5eCO2bP5yhAWN1ueA

 Then follow the FlowChart which Ubonjoe provided earlier.

Cost of legalisation is 200BHT per page.  You can collect in 2 days or get them to EMS the docs back to you at a small extra fee.  If you want it back the same day you must submit the documents before 09:30am (to collect after 2:30pm) and it will cost 400Baht per page.

When you hand your documents over at the initial checking counter, they will ask you for a copy of your passport (photo page) and a copy of your visa stamp extra to the documents that you are submitting… so I suggest that you take extra copies with you otherwise you will find yourself going back down to the 2nd floor to the photocopying shop.

FYI – The Consular Section of MFA is open at 07:30am and closes at 4:00pm…. The Legalisation Section which you need opens for business at 08:30am and closes at 4:00pm (lunch is 12:00 – 1:00pm).

There is a large car park around the building, but be advised that you need to be there early to get a space as it’s used by staff and visitors otherwise you may find yourself going around several time trying to find a space.  You may be luckier if you are on a motorbike.

Personally if I was going to the British Embassy in the morning I would walk back to Phloen Chit and get the BTS to Mo Chit, then get a taxi to the Consular Section – cost about 120/140 Baht depending upon traffic.

Hope that helps – based upon my experience last week.

Sorry if this topic has been raised before, but a search didn’t reveal anything.

Miss MoneyBaht and I have been married for nearly ten years.  Since retiring some 6 years ago I have been living here on annual retirement extensions.

I am fully aware of the different immigration requirements between retirement and marriage extensions, but what I would like to know is… what are pros and cons of one against the other.

I'm up for renewal at the beginning of September and wondering if I should stay with retirement or swap to marriage.

1 hour ago, Lamkyong said:

uk acc card ?or Thai based bank

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Can you tell us which countries credit card you used please? Whether UK  or Thai bank.

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think it was a UK bank since he wrote it was done in pounds. If a Thai bank it would be shown in baht.

HSBC HKK - Premier A/C .... Used Visa debit card.... As indicated in previous post, the amount deducted was £52 and no transaction fees.

As a side issue.... The Embassy charge 100Baht for EMS return of letter & documents.... The letter quite literally has just arrived and the postage was 37Baht.  I know we've got to pay from Brexit somehow .

Off to the MFA to get the letter authenticated as now required by my local immigration Office.  

22 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

Has the postal order option totally finished now?.

 

Looking at the revised notes that accompany the request form... it states (in red)...Postal Orders are no longer accepted. This change has been effective since October 2016.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/631665/Attachment_2.pdf

Another service enhancement

FYI - I sent my request in last Wednesday together with the card authorisation form (VISA Debit Card details given) by EMS, and it was received by the Embassy the next day. 

I have just looked at my online bank account, and it shows that £52 was taken from my account yesterday by the FCO Thailand.  No mention of Thai Baht plus exchange fees thank goodness.

10 hours ago, waxon said:

Obviously not a frequent traveler through BKK or not observant.

 

The USD/Euro ATMs are located in the duty-free shopping area on FL4 after passing through immigration. Obviously, if you are arriving at BKK, you can take the escalator/elevator from FL2 to FL4 before passing through immigration.

 

A prior poster provided a link. The pictures show the bank kiosks located near the check-in area (prior to departure immigration). This map (sorry for the poor quality) shows ATMs which can be accessed by arriving passengers prior to going through immigration.

 

 

 

I agree with BritTim comments above…. If your arriving at BKK on an international flight, and want to enter Thailand at BKK, there is no way that you will gain access to the ATMs in the departure area unless you are transferring to another international or certain domestic flights.

If you want to enter either the international or domestic departure areas from the international arrivals area at BKK you need to show your onward ticket/ boarding pass at the entrance to the transit area.  Without an onward ticket/boarding pass you will not be allowed entry.

Sorry to say, but using your own words... "Obviously not a frequent traveler through BKK or not observant".

The stupid thing is that the Junta has been actively promoting Thailand 4.0 and that it expects Thailand to be a ’cashless’ economy with the introduction of electronic banking etc. 

So why don’t they have CC machines available on the IO’s desk so that he/she can check the fund availability?  Don't answer that question... I already know the answer.

3 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Most likely they will go for your option 2.   Those involved with/using fake passports are not "innocents"  they are actively involved with criminality. 

 

A case in Phuket recently involved two such criminals being arrested at the airport. 

Were they arriving or departing? 

 I totally agree that presenting fake documents is illegal.  However, if the discovery is made at arrivals then the senior IO and prosecutors will tend to take the course of action which causes the least problems for them or the tax payer.  If departing, then they have to take action because if they allow the individuals to depart the chances are they will be returned by the country they were hoping to fly to so they end up with the problem.

FYI.... There have been several 'fly on the wall' TV programs over recent years showing behind the scene activities at various airports in the UK, Australian, Dubai, Columbia and the US.  In nearly all of these programs they have shown immigration officials at work and what happens when document irregularities are discovered (arrivals/departures).  In all cases of arrival shown of individuals arriving the individuals was sent back and departing they were arrested and prosecuted. 

OK I know this is Thailand and they do things differently, but I still maintain they will opt for the course of least problems/cost.

15 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

I very much doubt that someone who tried to enter on a fake PP or visa would just be allowed to fly back out again, do you really think that would happen?  they would be arrested

Regarding document irregularities discovered by immigration on arrival at the airport.  If you were the IO you have a number of options available to you:

Option 1:  Turn a blind eye and let the person enter the country.

Option 2:  Arrested the person, have him/her detained for several months pending a Court hearing, a Court hearing, jailed for whatever time and then arranging deportation once released from jail. 

Option 3:  Because the airline should have checked the documentation before accepting the passenger for travel, they are legally responsible for conveying him/her back to the point of embarkation on the next available flight.  The airline bears the cost of repatriation plus a substantial fine.

Option 1 ... Extremely unlikely, bearing in mind that if he/she is caught at some later date your details may well be on the computer system as having allowed him/her to  enter – inactive post may be pending.

Option 2... Feasible, but at considerable financial cost to the tax payer.

Option 3... Costs nothing to the tax payer and actually generates an income from the fine levied on the airline.  Also the problem of the document irregularities will then be the responsibility of the country where he/she came from.

So which option do you think the IO’s will go for?  I suspect Option 3 will figure at the top of their list.

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

.......  Recently, everyone has been sent "back" where they came from.  There was at least one report, awhile back, where the person who was denied-entry was not even permitted to go back where they came from, and were "force-sent" back to their passport-country. 

I agree that in the two recent cases of entry refusal at BKK the individuals concerned returned to where they had come from, but that may have been their choice.

My understanding is that in the case of a refused entry (as distinct from deportation) the individual can decide where they want to go and they need to make the arrangements and bear the cost. 

Consider the following scenario:  If I have just flown into BKK from China, where I originally entered on a single entry tourist visa.  I am refused entry to Thailand for whatever reason.  The IO says I must go back to China.  I doubt very much that the airline will accept me for travel because my original single entry visa has been used and most certainly the Chinese authorities will allow me back in the country without a new visa which I cannot obtain whilst I'm in the 'holding area' at the airport.

It is only when an individual has been admitted to the country and subsequently being deported that immigration can/will specify where the individual is sent to which is normally to the country which issued their passport.

I’ve endeavored to find regulations, but to no avail, so happy to be (gently) corrected.

10 hours ago, tonray said:

I think you are directed to the carrier that brought you and you will be sent on the next flight back to where your embarked from.

I think you will find that once you reach the arrivals immigration desk there is no turning back.  You will need to clear immigration and customs and go to the departure level to arrange a flight.  You may be able to persuade the airline which brought you to Thailand to change your return flight, but that will no doubt cost you extra.

If for some reason the IO decides to refuse you entry, then depending upon the nature of the refusal one of two things will happen once you have been escorted to ‘holding’ area.

If the refusal is based for example on fake passport, visa etc. which the airline that transported you to Thailand should have picked up at your point of departure, then immigration will instruct that airline to return you to your point of departure on the next available flight. The airline will have to bear the cost of transporting you and they will also face a heavy fine.

If the refusal is based for example on lack of funds to support your stay (which is somewhat  topical at the moment), then you will be allowed to arrange a flight to any destination outside Thailand at your own expense. Immigration will also charge you for ‘board and lodgings' whilst you are in the ‘holding’ area.

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

http://www.suvarnabhumiairport.com/en/896-atm-suvarnabhumi-airport

 

This is a mix of those airside and elsewhere. Note that passengers in the transit area (and those departing once through immigration) can only withdraw US dollars.

As you mentioned in an earlier post (#8), there are no ATMs between the arrivals gate and arrivals immigration, all of the airside ATMs are in the departure area which most arriving passengers will not have access to.

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Only a letter from your bank confirming the balance and your account. And copies of your bank book will be accepted.

A friend of mine was extending his none-OA (retirement) last year at Nakhon Pathom IO using a letter from his bank stating his account balance in GBP (with conversion to BHT).  This was his 5th or 6th renewal using the required deposited funds method.  The bank letter was dated a week before he went for his renewal.

During the renewal process the IO asked to see the bank book which, fortunately, he had taken with him.  Upon inspecting the book the IO said that the last entry in the bank book was month ago and he would need to get it updated. 

My friend showed the IO that the balance in the book corresponded with that indicated in the bank's letter.  The IO said that since the letter had been produced (a week earlier) he could have withdrawn his funds. 

The IO advised my friend that the balance should be as of the day before he submits his application.  After some gentle pleading on my friends part, the IO agreed to extend his stay, but made it very clear that next year my friend must get the bank book update the day before he submits his application for an extension.

Although the IO has a point regarding date of letter and funds subsequently being withdrawn are correct, I suspect it could be a case of another IO just wanting to show who is in charge.