007 RED

YES... and if your extra lucky, on Sundays too.

No I'm not an electrician. I confess to having no previous experience of solar systems and a fairly basic knowledge of electrical systems dating back to my days at Coventry Polytechnic some 50 plus years ago. In fact, I would happily describe myself as a total nurd when it comes to solar systems. That said, DIY seems to be in my DNA. The inspiration for my project came from @Crossy original thread "How about a solar car port on a budget" (see link below), plus a lot of support from the forum members and considerable additional research on the web. I think that the real motivation for me was that at the age of 74, designing, installing and commissioning a grid tied solar system, albeit a small one, was a great challenge, and I love a challenge. It also helped to overcome the boredom created by the restriction on movement caused by Covid at the time. My wife and I are somewhat conservative users of electricity. Our bills prior to installing the system were around 1,000 THB a month. As mentioned in my post above, the aim of the system was to reduce our electric bills by 75% and over the past year the system seems to be achieving this comfortably. We have the following appliances: 2 x ACs (living room & bedroom) which are only used for a short periods of time when the humidity level goes above 80% - we tend to prefer fans: Fridge/freezer: Front loader washing m/c: Microwave: 55in LCD TV: 3kW water heater in the shower room: LEDs lights in all rooms. The system is grid tied, so its difficult to accurately say which appliances are running off the system during the day, obviously they are not all running at the same time. I haven't considered installing ESS as this would involve a very substantial cost (batteries and hybrid inverter). Apart from the cost factor, such a system is well above my 'paygrade' ????.

I have a small scale solar system installed on my car port roof. It comprises 4 x 415W half cut mono panels linked to a 2.2kW PEA approved grid tied inverter. This was a DIY installed project, so no labour costs involved just my time and effort. Total hardware cost was 28,000 THB. The system has been running for almost a year now and during this time it has produced 2,555 units, effectively reducing my pre-installation monthly electricity bills by 75%. This represents a saving of 10,731 THB (based upon 4.2 THB per unit which was the price I paid prior to the system’s installation). Hence my ROI should be in the order of (28,000 / 10,731) = 2.6 years. Obviously if the price per unit rises, the payback time will be shorter ????. If I had a company to do the installation, then the labour costs would be in the order of 100,000 THB, and that's without getting approval from my local PEA. If I wanted a PEA 'approved installer’ to install and obtain certification, then the cost would soar to 200,000 plus THB. In both cases the cost of the hardware would be extra and no doubt considerably more than the 28,000 THB that I paid. As you will see, there is a tremendous difference between the cost of my DIY install and that of a PEA 'approved' installation. Unfortunately, the bureaucracy* and cost of obtaining approval for a system, is no incentive whatsoever for most people here in Thailand to go solar. Unfortunately there is no way that Somchai, on a basic minimum wage, is going to be able to afford the initial capital outlay for a simple system which could meet their basic electric needs. *We Brits invented bureaucracy, Thais have just perfected it.

Strange! Up until now, TAT have always spouted how many zillion Baht will be screwed extracted out of the foreign tourists. Now all of a sudden, they quoting in terms of millions of US Dollars. Is this a forewarning of another 1979 financial crash when tourists had to pay for their Thai flight, hotels and many other expenses in US Dollars at exorbitant exchange rate determined by the vendor ?

This is very admirable, and I hope they achieve their goal. It's a pity that more countries are not following along the same path. That said, producing vast amounts of electricity from wind and solar farms, which are no doubt heavily sponsored by the government, is a totally different story to installing "solar cells on the roof" as per your original post. It has to be remembered that the average Somchai, on minimum wages is unlikely to be able to afford the initial outlay necessary to install even a small solar system on their roof which might just generate enough to meet their own needs, let alone produce any surplus for them to be able to sell off to their local PEA. FYI... My small scale system comprising 4 x 415W mono panels linked to a 2.2kW grid tied inverter. Total hardware cost = 28,000 THB. This effectively reduces my electricity bill by 75% per month, and all being well will give a ROI in about 2.5 years. This was a DIY installation project, so no labour costs other than my time and effort. If I had a company to do the installation, then the labour costs would be in the order of 100,000 THB, and that's without getting approval from my local PEA. If I wanted a PEA 'approved' installer to install and obtain certification, then the cost would soar to 200,000 plus THB. In both cases the cost of the hardware would be extra and no doubt considerably more than the 28,000 THB that I paid. As you will see, there is a tremendous difference between the cost of my DIY install and that of a PEA 'approved' installation. Unfortunately the cost of obtaining approval for a system, combined with the pittance paid by the PEA for buying any surplus, is no incentive whatsoever for most people here in Thailand to go solar. The only people who realistically are/have considered getting PEA certification for solar system installations are the big companies who can invest in the considerable outlay for a large system. The certification (commission) fees then become a very small percentage of their initial outlay costs. Near where I live there are several large factories (mainly food production). Looking at the satellite images from Google Maps, it is very evident that quite a few have invested in solar systems. I have attached an image below of one such factory. How many solar panels can you count in the roof? As far as I'm aware the factory only works during the day time, six days per week, so its unlikely that they have an ESS for night time use. I do wonder if they sell any surplus to the local PEA and if they do how much they get?

Actually its not new and its not only the inverter that has to be accepted by the PEA or MEA, there are a lot of other matters that need their approval for example: Type of solar panel; type of panel mountings; breakers; cables to name but a few. FYI..... The PEA's and the MEA have been able to buy back power from Small Scale Solar Power Producers (SSSPP) for the past 9 years. The only thing that has changed since these regulations were introduced is the amount that the PEA/MEA will pay for any power which they purchase from the SSSPP. In 2013 the Energy Regulatory Commission (ERC) introduced the "Power Purchases from Solar PV Rooftop" Regulations B.E. 2556. I have attached below a translated PDF copy of these regulation, which runs into some 96 pages and sets out in great detail all the requirements. My advice is don't read it before bedtime if you suffer from nightmares as its pure bureaucracy as invented by us Brits. and perfected by the Thais. 20130918_giz_translation_solar_rooftop.pdf

Now that's good service... all credit to Sofar for their quick response.... I just hope that DHL don't clobber you for import duty and VAT.

FYI.... The attached PDF is an up-to-date list of PEA approved inverters... look forward to seeing their approved list of solar panels and mountings ????.... I wonder if mine and @Crossy mountings will be on the list ???? PEA-InverterList-4-2565.pdf

Thanks for posting this article/advert. I have to say I'm a little bit skeptical for a few reasons. Firstly, it would have been nice if the author of the article/advert had provided a link to the specific details of this government announcement e.g. when was it made, which government department made it and details of the new/modified regulations. Having searched the internet I've not been unable to find any other reference to such change, other than this article. Secondly, reading the article/advert and comparing it with the current regulations concerning the supply of electricity to the grid which falls under the 'umbrella' of EGAT, which if I'm correct was introduced in 2013, there is in fact very little difference in the basic requirements concerning the installation of solar systems, except for the 'special' requirements which I've pointed out bellow. Thirdly, according to the article/advert: "solar equipment needs to be verified and approved by the PEA/MEA; this includes Solar panels, inverters and mounting structures". So now the PEA/MEA will not only have a list of approved inverters, but a list of solar panels and mounting fixtures which can be used. "The roof structure needs to be checked/verified by a Thai structural engineer to ensure that it can support the load". This will be good fun. Finding a licenced structural engineer in Thailand will be like finding a needle in a haystack, and if you do find one its going to cost an arm and a leg to get him/her to certify the structure. "... once installed it needs to be registered with the Tessaban...." Why? What has the local authority got to do with someone having a solar panel system on their roof. The above 'new' requirements, in my opinion, are not going to encourage people to go solar in the same way that the original regulations did nothing.

Glad that my assumption was correct. Yes 'basic' inverters go into 'sleep' mode when there is no light to activate the photoelectric cells. If you look at the spec data for your inverter you will see a mention of something called 'Start-up Voltage... mine is 70V.... which means that the panels need to produce 70V before the inverter will 'kick into life. At that point the inverter goes into a 'Check' mode and if everything is OK it starts producing AC. FYI... things are different if you have a hybrid inverter that is connected to batteries as these will remain active to monitor/control the 'backflow' of DC from the batteries and convert to AC. Time to relax now.... have another beer.

@PR3.... Looking at the time that you posted the above e.g. around 9pm, and taking account that you mentioned "just on the way back from putting out the garbage", I would assume that it was dark. If I'm correct in that assumption, then your inverter would be 'asleep' and doing nothing. This is normal. You should find that once the sun starts to appear on the horizon at around 6:30 am it will, or should, kick back into life. Likewise, once the sun disappears below the horizon at around 6:30 pm the inverter will go into 'sleep' mode again. I hope that I'm right and that you've not got a problem with the inverter. Good luck

@PR3.... my humble apology for putting you through any unnecessary stress.... @Crossy is perfectly correct, it is the REFLUX POWER setting which should be set to zero to stop export when a CT clamp is connected to the inverter and not the REACTIVE setting which I incorrectly advised in an earlier post. FYI... I've just scaled the ladder and checked my inverter setting to make absolutely sure. I hope that you've managed to get it to work now. Grovel, grovel ???? ????

Sorry to butt in on this interesting post, but there is something than may be worth considering, albeit fairly remote here in Thailand. I think that its fairly unlikely that the PEA will get a drone to do a search to find any untoward solar systems. They would have to know where to look in the first place. However there is something that a lot of local authorities (planning Departments) in the UK have adopted as it helps to ensure that properties are taxed within the correct banding. A friend of mine who live in a very remote rural area decided to have a conservatory built at the rear of the house. The builder (reputable firm) advised that the size of the addition was below that which required planning permission, so construction went ahead. I should add that because of the remote location, the conservatory can't be seen from the nearby road, or any neighbors. Approximately 18 months after the conservatory was constructed, my friend's wife who was at home at the time, had a visit from a local authority planning officer. He advised her that he was aware that there had been an addition to the property and that their records showed that no application for planning permission had been submitted. He asked her to show him to the rear of the house where he inspected, and took photos of, the conservatory. During the conversation with the planning officer, my friend's wife noticed that he had photos of the property which she recognized as satellite images. She asked him where he had got them. The officer advised that they (the local authority) purchase high quality digital images every 6 months from the same company which Google use for their low grade satellite images. He explained that the digital images are fed into an AI system which compares the current image with the image obtained 6 months previously. The system spews out any anomalies which are then investigated. Hence his visit. As it turned out the builder was correct, the conservatory was under the size which required planning permission. Apparently the cost of the high grade digital satellite images is not that great, but I very much doubt that the local PEA will cotton onto this survey method. Take a look at Google maps of your area, and switch to satellite image. You may be surprised. Spot the difference in the images below. The above Google Map image was taken early 2021, the one below taken earlier this year Have you spotted the solar panels.... 4 of them on the blue roof (white with black dots).

Hi @PR3... No problem...this is what the forum is for - sharing info and experiences. As indicated in my previous post it must be located somewhere between the consumer unit and the supply meter and it must be attached to the live supply wire. Yes a clamp meter will help identify the live wire. That said, if you put it on the wrong wire, or the arrow on the clamp is facing the house, the CT just wont work and your inverter will export all the time. So if that happens you just swap the clamp to the other wire and make sure the arrow is pointing toward the meter. Initially I thought that I could clamp the CT onto the live cable on the pole outside the house and then run my CT connecting cable along with the few communications cables which pass our car port where the inverter is mounted. I was advised that if the communications companies spot a non communications cable they are likely to cut it and report it to the local PEA because they (the communications companies) have to pay a 'rental' fee to the PEA to use their poles etc. So I ended up locating the CT clamp in the roof space where the cables come in to the house from the pole. I then ran the connecting CT cable across the roof space and across a 4 meter gap to the car port. The CT cable being secured at both the house and car port. The approximate length of connecting cable between the CT clamp and the inverter connection is about 30 meters. When I discussed the wire size with @Crossy, he informed me that he has used 2 x 0.5mm2 cable in the past without any problem, but with his current set up he used 2 x 1mm2 cable for about the same length (30 meters). So because of the cable having to cross the gap between the house and the car port I opted for the 2 x 1mm2 cable and this has worked fine. The light switch that I used was a single pole switch (big enough for her in doors to use). It just need to open and close the circuit between the CT clamp and the inverter. Remember.... when the switch is in the 'OPEN' position your inverter will EXPORT, and when closed it will NOT EXPORT. Hope this helps and good luck. PS.... Just seen that @Crossy has also replied.. he's an early bird too.

@PR3 Further to my post above concerning NO EXPORT, I've found this bit of info from Sofar in my files relating to the CT clamp. Hope this helps.

Yep..... you definitely want to make sure that your meter reader does not see the disc spinning backwards at a hundred mile an hour. The first task is to be aware on what day(s) your meter reader comes. If you're not aware, take a look at your past bills as this will give the meter reading date, or if you go to the PEA website you can obtain details of past readings for about a year or more. I think you will find that the meter reader normally comes within a couple of days 'window' so its best to power down until you get your system set up to not export. The first thing that you will need is a CT Clamp. Some models of Sofar inverters provide this in the box. If yours doesn't then you can get one via Shopee https://shopee.co.th/????ยอดขายอันดับ1-CT-กันย้อน-ตัวกันย้อน-1P-Grid-tie-On-grid-SOFAR-อินเวอเตอร์-กริดไทล์-ออนกริด-MPPT-Solar-โซล่าเซลล์-i.12941857.7171127309?xptdk=8b960a1c-d7a2-4435-9a63-4d0acf5fa17b This needs to be clamped over the Positive supply cable coming from your meter to the consumer box in the house. Note... it has a direction arrow engraved on the body of the clamp which must face towards the meter. The wires attached to the CT clamp are then connected to your CT input connection on the inverter. You will then need to set your inverter "REACTIVE" setting to zero. Don't ask why they have called it reactive as I don't know, but it's the setting which dictates how much power can be fed into the grid. With the CT clamp in place and the reactive setting set to zero, your inverter will not export, it will only produce enough (or less) power as is being used in the house. If you put a simple switch into the line from the CT clamp to the inverter, when the switch is open the inverter will export, when close it will not export. Its then a case of remembering when to turn off your export before the meter reader comes. I initially did this using a simple light switch housed in a box a shown below. I have subsequently adopted @Crossy NO EXPORT device which allows me to control the export facility via the internet as shown in the screen shot below. I hope this helps and good luck with rest of your project.

Firstly... well done in getting your system up and running. It looks a good job. Re: Country Code. If I recall correctly, Sofar inverters seem to be set at the factory with a country code # 22, which according to their spec sheet is for "General European" but I found that it seemed to work OK with this setting. That said, I did change a few days after initial commissioning to # 41 a which again according to their spec sheet is for "Thailand MEA" . I actually live in a PEA area, but the pain in the rear fiddling with the change button and passwords at every stage whilst up a ladder put me off changing it again to # 40. It works well and outputs the right voltage and Hz. Re: The Sofar monitoring system. I would recommend initially registering your system via the PC. I have attached below a link that will take you to the login screen. Just click on "Registration" (bottom right) and enter the details requested. It's a simple task. https://home.solarmanpv.com/login Once you've registered, then download an app for your phone via whichever app provider you have for your phone. The App is called SOLARMAN SMART. FYI... The phone app only provides limited data which cannot be manipulated. The PC version provides very comprehensive information and data which you can download and manipulate if you so desire. Good Luck.

I love the way that they describe this event "ASEAN SUSTAINABLE ENERGY WEEK". Since when have 3 days = a week? I know this is Thailand ! On a more serious note, thanks for posting this info. It sound interesting, and I'm fairly sure that I will be able to obtain a day pass from 'her-in-doors' to go along. Scrap the above.... I've just read the admission policy and its for trade and business visitors only... members of the public will not be admitted. Also all visitors must be properly attired, those in shorts and slippers will be refused entry... So that definitely rules me out ????

As I mentioned in my post above, my small scale DIY solar system comprising 4 x 415W panels linked into a 2.2kW GTI cost 28,000THB and is producing about 7 units a day, that equates to approximately 11,000THB a year, which means that the system will have paid for itself in 2.5 years (sooner if they put the price of electricity up) and everything there after is a nice reward on the investment. Ask yourself a simple question. How much will your bank give you in interest on 28K THB in a savings account? I bet it wont be 11K THB per annum.

@Custard boy FYI..... Way back in 2019, whilst trawling through what was then Thai Visa I came across an interesting thread entitled “How about a solar car port on a budget” The thread rapidly expanded with helpful contributions from many forum members who shared Crossy’s interest, achievements and the odd disappointment. I confess to having no previous experience of solar systems and a fairly basic knowledge of electrical systems dating back to my days at Coventry Polytechnic some 50 plus years ago. In fact, I would happily describe myself as a total nerd when it comes to solar systems. That said, DIY seems to be in my DNA and Crossy’s thread inspired me to take the ‘bull-by-the-horns’ and consider doing something similar. We (my wife and I) had a car port constructed in 2018 on land that we purchased adjacent to our house. From the information derived from Crossy’s thread, the car port was ideally positioned in so far that one side of the roof was South facing and inclined was about 150. Most importantly it was not shaded during the day, therefore, any solar panels mounted on the roof should (in theory) capture maximum sunlight during the day. OK, so I was inspired by Crossy’s thread, but what was the motivation for me wanting to construct a small scale grid tied solar system on our car port roof? The cost of the electricity in Thailand is relatively cheap (especially when compared to the current cost in the UK), and my wife and I aren’t heavy consumers. Our average monthly bill being around 1,000THB. So, cost savings wasn’t really a major ‘driver’. Was it because going ‘green’ or ‘carbon neutral’ and saving the planet was the right thing to do? No not really. The amount of electricity we use is relatively small so it’s unlikely to make a massive difference to the world’s carbon footprint. That said, every drop of CO2 less should help. Oh, and one forum member suggested that saving just a few Baht a month was ‘penny pinching’. Well, if you consider the pathetic interest rate that you get from most bank savings accounts, compared to the potential cost saving per year generated by a solar system, solar out performs the interest rate by far, so I think it’s fair to say solar is in fact a shrewd long term investment. I think that the real motivation for me was that at the age of 74, designing, installing and commissioning a grid tied solar system, albeit a small one, was a great challenge. Throughout my life, I have always enjoyed the challenges which have been ‘thrown’ at me. Any long term financial payback, or contribution towards assisting the world to become carbon neutral would just be an incidental bonus so far as I was concerned. I ended up designing a small scale solar system on the car port roof with the ambition of reducing our monthly electric bill by no more than 75%. The installation comprises 4 x 415W Half-Cut monocrystalline solar panels linked to a 2.2kW grid tied inverter. In theory the panels (under ideal laboratory conditions) should be capable of producing 1,660W, but unfortunately we aren’t living a laboratory and in reality they can be expected to produce somewhere around 1,200W, which with good sunshine for around 6 hours per day will yield approximately 7 units . The graph below (from the system's monitoring facility) shows the solar panel output on a recent 'good day' when it achieved just over 8 units. The system cost me 28,000 THB (DIY installation) and it’s been running for almost a year now. As originally planned, the system has been reducing our electric bills by around 70% a month. I anticipate payback on the initial investment will be around 2.5 years - shorter if the price of electricity is increased. As I said earlier, a shrewd little investment. A few words of caution Firstly, it should be noted that the electric authorities (MEA or PEA) will not approve a DIY grid tied installation. According to their policies, all solar system installations which are connected to the grid must be undertaken by one of their approved installers and it must have an electronic meter fitted. The system must be subsequently certified by one of their engineers. The cost of having a system installed and approved is very expensive, and the payback for any power which the system might feedback into the grid is very low (approximately half that of the normal purchasing price). Secondly, if you DIY install a grid tied solar system and have a spinning disc type meter, any excess power produced by the system can potentially be fed back into the grid and make the disc spin backwards thus reducing the number of units used. This practice is frowned upon by the electric authorities and if discovered (usually by the meter reader) they (MEA/PEA) will at best replace the meter with an electronic one which prevents ‘spin back’ or at worse they may disconnect the supply and demand that the solar system’ be removed and/or impose a fine. Thirdly, if you create a system that constantly produces negative meter readings, that is to say the new reading is less than the previous reading, this will most certainly ring alarm bells within the MEA/PEA office, who undoubtedly will send an inspector to investigate the meter, which could result in the problems that I’ve described above. I hope this helps in your endeavour to reduce your electricity bill. Good luck.

@Pink7.... FYI.. I adopted a slightly different approach for mounting my panels. I don't have access to a disc cutter, pedestal drilling machine or welding equipment, so I had to think of an alternative way to mount the panels onto the corrugated cement tiles of the car port roof. I opted to a 'bridge' type mounting solution as shown below. The mounts are made from 1.2mm stainless steel which are bolted down to the metal structure of the car port roof. They save a lot of weight. Made for me by a local tinsmith from off cuts @ 50 THB each. A small coat of clear silicon was applied to the underside of each bracket to help prevent any water ingression via the mounting bolts. Great advantage of stainless steel is that it won't rust and doesn't need painting = less maintenance. Been in service for 10 months and no problems with wind.

No problem... When we had the car port constructed on the land which we purchased next to our house, I had the electrician install a power supply from the house to the car port so that we would have a couple of power outlet points for small tools and lights in the car port. The connecting cable from the house is laid within yellow plastic pipe which is mounted around the garden wall to a small consumer unit under the car port. Approximate distance from house consumer unit to the carport consumer unit is about 40 meters (around the garden wall). I'm not sure about the technical spec of the cable, but it's 2 core and quite large. Because the envisaged output by my small scale system is only about 1.2kW (although the monitoring system has shown that on rare occasions it can push 1.5kW), I was given to understand from the forum experts that it was OK to connect the AC output from the inverter to my car port consumer box. And this is what I did, and it seems to have worked fine with no problems. I appreciate that my solution may not work for a larger scale system and maybe the resident forum experts will give advice on this. I hope that this helps.

I would second @Crossy advice above regarding checking everything with a multimeter before connecting cables... in fact... double check polarity. Also... ensure that your DC breaker is set to OFF position before connecting cables from PVs and from the DC breaker to the inverter DC input(s). Yup... sex of MC4 connectors can be confusing so good luck with them.

I remember that its a great feeling when all the parts start arriving. All you need to to now is get cracking and start building. Re: the feed cables from the panels that are mounted on the car port roof to the 'safety box'. The box was an empty 2 bay consumer unit that I purchased from HomePro for about 350 THB. I drilled a couple of holes in the top and a couple in the bottom of the case to allow the PV cable access/exit via MC4 connectors. The cables from the PVs are attached to the MC4 connectors in the top of the 'safety box'. The connectors are connected to their respective input (+pos and -neg) terminals on the DC MCB. The output cables (+pos and -neg) which are connected to their respective output terminals on the DC MCB are then attached to the MC4 connectors at the bottom of the 'safety box'. Additional cables then connect the DC 'Safety box' to the PV input sockets on the inverter. The DC surge protection device is connected to the DC MCB and an external earth feed. Sorry I don't have a photo showing the internal connection for the DC 'safety box', but hope that above description and photos below of the external boxes helps. Good luck with your project.

I totally agree. I think putting up some panels and connecting them to a few fairly cheap GTIs, like the ones that @Crossy or @BritManToo originally used, would serve as a good learning exercise for @PR3. My small scale GTI system comprising 4 x 415W half-cut mono panels connected to 2kW Sofar inverter and is merrily churning out electricity, even with the poor weather (lots of clouds, rain and thunderstorms) that we have been having during the past month. The system was originally designed with the aim of reducing my monthly bills by 75%, e.g. producing about 7 units per day. Below is the production data graph from my monitoring facility for the current billing period July – August. FYI…. The yellow bars on the 15 & 16 August indicate the days the system was switched to NO EXPORT as historically the meter reader can come on either of those days. This month the system only managed to produce just over 164 units, as shown in the pie chart below, which is better that nought. My system cost 28K THB and has been operational for 10 months now. It’s on track for a ROI in approximately 2.5 years and given the pending price increase of electricity announce the other day payback may be even sooner ????.