Miami007

2 hours ago, brain150 said:

Average deaths per year of 800,000 from Malaria have never been a concern to anybody ... and that's for decades !!!

25,000 people dying from hunger EVERY DAY have never been a concern.

 

And these are real numbers and NOT projections !!!

 

... maybe it's because it's not in the media 24/7 ???

So true.. plus the 4 million who die from air pollution every year or 3 million who pass because of contaminated drinking water. 

But Malaria, Hunger, air pollution and lack of clean water are a problem in Africa, Asia and not Europe or the USA. So nobody in the media cares much. Different when it happens at home...

12 hours ago, skorp13 said:

Thailand has been relative covid free for how long now while its neighbors have been affected and they never thought about covering their borders???? Now wait 3 months until it is rampant so they have an excuse? Pretty negligent!

Their neighbors like Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia which have fewer official cases. Only Myanmar has more.

But also a function of not testing asymptomatic carriers, which are the majority of cases (In USA 7.6 million active cases and 125,000 in the hospital. Less than 2% of cases are so severe that they need a hospital).

What is your definition of rampant ? 1% of the population having the virus?

An early April's Fools post I gather.

A rocket traveling 11 km per hour won't make it far.  If they launch from space, it will take years.

Another question is WHY?

15 hours ago, sezze said:

Well , thats always have been the problem so far in the rest of the world . Suddenly people are going to hospital , and you try find the infected and more and more people show up , and hospitals are getting full in no time .

Well yes and no . Like i said before , Thailand has been very lucky so far . The what, where, how , doesnt matter . The fact is that the hospitals were never in problem , telling me they were telling the truth . Nobody cares if you are infected if you not need to go to hospital , stay home for a week and ok . Professional footballers got it now all the time , since they getting tested at least once a week and sometimes everybody ok , and 2 weeks later theres 4-5-6 in a team which are infected , most of the time mild symptoms . Testing is good and fine , but it is very difficult to get all cases , lockdown for everybody and test everybody 2 times within a week and then you might got everybody , but that is not possible ( they doing it in China , together with widespread government control over movement ... ) .

Like i said yesterday , Welcome to the world Thailand . You've been very lucky so far .

My BIL is a doctor.  My niece tested positive and according to him "as long as he is not sick, she is healthy".  My niece had no symptoms but shows in the statistics as covid patient.  In Europe/ USA the media and government and many people do absolutely care about asymptomatic carriers.

You are right that athletes get it all the time and recover (like the majority).

In April we were told in the USA that more testing would prevent more cases - but nobody said how that would work.  Obviously a test today means nothing tomorrow or the day after - we would need to test everyone every day, which is not possible

3 hours ago, Ian C HH said:

Thailand didn’t HAVE the sick and the dead. That counts for something surely? Correct handling and a more disciplined approach maybe? The same disciplines approach that this forum complains about as killing the economy by the way. Do you want more tests that would certainly show more assymptomatic  positive results that were always there but not causing ANY sicknesses and deaths then? Result? Panic, lockdown and further ruination of the economy. Europe tested to relieve their overflowing hospitals. Did we ever have that? Keep it in perspective PLEASE. 

Yes PLEASE keep in perspective that European or American hospitals are usually running at 80-90% full to make money.  When elective procedures were stopped in April, some hospitals in Florida started laying off or furloughing staff as there were no patients.  The Hospital ship which docked in New York , the field hospitals in Central Park and the NYC Convention Center had no usage

Sorry to say, but the "relieving of stress on hospitals" also is guided by keeping the money coming into hospitals.

In Europe/ USA most cases are asymptomatic and that is creating the panic the media is spreading. 

Also, imagine that for 30 years plus they could not find a vaccine for HIV, SARS etc - now we found 5 or 6 in less than a year.  Imagine that and just look at the $$$$ to vaccinate 8 billion people (most likely every year or more often).  

14 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

With the low number of cases here, is it really important every citizen gets tested?  If the virus was raging here, the hospitals would be full of CV patients.  They aren't, right?

not everyone who has the virus is showing symptoms and has to go to the hospital.  The horror stories of covid overflowing US hospitals are an exaggeration.  there are 115,000 covid hospitalizations - out of nearly 1 million hospital beds.. Hospitals are full, because they are always 80-90% full to begin with (otherwise, hospitals do not make money).  

Thailand/ Vietnam/ Cambodia etc are fortunate, that their population is relatively healthy compared to the West (30% or more in the USA are obese) and relatively young (covid more severe in elderly over 65) 

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Dudes! This is NOT about the economy or about your pitiful holidays, the tourists, or all the folks most unfortunately locked out overseas away from family, home & jobs.

 

Implementing as extensive testing as possible should discover almost 100% of asymptomatics. Those asymptomatics will recover & no longer be carriers to the rest of us, if handled properly.

 

The fly in the ointment is how onerous govt makes isolation conditions. Make it tough or, worse, charge money for isolation, is a recipe for disaster.

 

Maybe, for once, the military system can be used to good effect and put human rights into practice when handling the infected.

 

Maybe outdoor health centres would be a good solution, as long as they serve great food. We don't want these labelled concentration camps, DP camps, or refugee camp, or prison camps early on or such a programme will fail.

 

If this can be accomplished skillfully, most people will want to do the right thing by their neighbours. Maybe PAY asymptomatics for time in isolation, holding out the carrot of free hospital care if they develop symptoms.

 

Some folks have joked about the zombie apocalypse but The Walking Dead is a pretty accurate model. They walk among us.

 

Goddess help us, eh...

Only a small percentage of virus carriers dies. There are no Walking Dead among us. People need to get a grip on reality. Asymptomatic carriers won't die and the severely affected are in a hospital and not walking around (or already in nursing homes, which have about half of the deaths in some western countries)

In the USA more than 10 million recovered from Covid, only a little over 2% are currently infected (many asymptomatic and will recover). 

Austria has been trying to test the entire population of 10 million. About 25% showed up (it was voljntary) and only a small number tested positive and were confirmed (below 0.5% of tested). Are you going to use police or army to test everyone. In Austria they want to extend the lockdown for untested people and force them to wear special masks (regular knes not working?). Maybe a sticker on their clothes to identify them? We tried that about 80 years ago...not sure that we want to return to that time.

. 

How do all these politicians in Europe get the virus even with their lockdown and other safety measures? Maybe a sign that all of that amounts to a hill of beans 

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I am going. Very low risk. We are talking about a pinhead of cases. And it is not like these fishermen are wandering around Bangkok. Come on. Let's maintain common sense about this. Wear a mask. But, continue with your lives. This is not America, which of course is #1. In Covid. 

America is not #1 in cases or deaths per resident.  I shop, exercise and life is going on where I live. We have been wearing masks since April (some people don't do it correctly - like in Europe or Thailand).

Compare cases per million as ratio of tests per million and the big discrepancies in numbers disappear forr the most part. 

10 hours ago, Elkski said:

I sure hope they can get on top of this.   

All you guys wanting the tourist gates open. well here is what I predicted would happen.  Most likely this is the more easily  spread 614G mutation that  Thailand  missed back in Jan Feb.   I commend Thailand for trying so hard at contact tracing.  I hope they don't end up with to many cases to track.  Please no new Hotspot.  

This explosion has been swift.   It was just 12 cases and now 500+ and GF says on BKK news sat night is was 800+.  She says everyone at work was talking about this and mad as h3ll. 

I strongly disagree with flying sausages guess work.    No real studies have been done with this virus relating to spread conditions.   Its stupid to say a 2-5 stop trip is a sardine packed BTS is low risk.  Remember this can enter your body via your eyes.   What about the que lines waiting to buy tickets or for  2-3 trains during crowded times?  How many people do you bump into? How many mouths are within 2 meters.   No one is testing these homemade masks.   So many are worn losely.  If you have never been officially test fitted for a ????  mask you have no idea how critical the fit and seal is.   I have been fitted where they use this highly stinky dust and if is very hard to learn how to wear a mask properly to block it.    How many times have you smelled someone's hotdogs burp at a ball game or in a ski lift line.  As a bow  hunter with an above average sense of smell I am an very aware of which direction my scent is traveling and I know molecules travel very far.  Molecules we smell are gigantic HC chains not a single cell .2 micron  covid19.   

I'm not convinced the "wet" market means so much for this outbreak other than it being full of border crossing workers who probably live and work in crowded conditions.   And it is a busy market with lots of plastic bags and probably  most handling money and fish without washing hands like most markets. 

There was no tourism and borders were closed. How did the first foreign worker (who must have been in Thailand since March) get the virus? 

Obviously, no surprise that 50% of the migrant workers tested positive based on dense living conditions ( same situation in Singapore).

The virus existed in Thailand the whole time- but asymptomatic people were not tested in large numbers. Now they found 90% of the cases to be without symptoms. 

On 12/8/2020 at 1:49 AM, Traubert said:

And, of course, catch Covid 19. Now available in Miami for all those who want it.

But I don't have it.. at least not in a form that makes me sick by the definition of sick in 2019.

Btw, in the entire USA there are 10 million recoveries and 7+million active cases. Barely above 2% of the entire population. 2 people of every 100 on the street.

No reason for anyone here to endure 14 days jail in a Thai hotel room. 

On 12/10/2020 at 1:51 AM, Natai Beach said:

You do understand that Chinese tourists travel to Europe, the States, etc etc. Most Chinese tourists during Dec to February were not in Thailand.

 

Thailand is popular for Chinese tourists, but Thailand is very popular worldwide. 
Because it so good. 

Correct that Chinese tourists travel everywhere.

Still no explanation why the chinese tourists to USA and europe infected people there, but chinese tourists to Thailand and Cambodia didn't 

22 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Big jump in Covid-19 cases in Samut Sakhon, but situation 'not worrisome'

By THE NATION

 

 

More than 2,000 people in Samut Sakhon province who might have been at risk of infection have been tested for Covid-19 and so far 13 people have been found positive, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Health Anutin Charnvirakul said on Friday evening.

 

 

The minister visited a prawn market in Samut Sakhon’s Mahachai subdistrict to follow up on investigations after a 67-year-old woman, who ran a seafood shop in the market, tested positive for Covid-19 on December 18 after showing symptoms on December 13.

 

“The Disease Control Department has tested most of the people who work in the market,” Anutin said.

 

“The department will continue testing more people to determine the scope of the virus spreading.”

 

Anutin added that His Majesty the King has granted three biosafety vehicles to test local residents around the market, while the ministry has provided 2,500 viral transport medium tubes, 2,500 nasopharyngeal swabs, Rapid Ab test kits, 100 personal protective equipment suits, 200 waterproof gowns, 500 surgical masks, 100 face shields as well as other equipment to officers carrying out the testing.

 

“It is estimated that there are around 4,000 people living around the market, most of whom are foreign labourers, while around 10 per cent of residents are Thai nationals,” said Anutin.

 

“The situation in the province is not yet worrisome, but people should wear face masks, wash their hands regularly and avoid going to crowded areas. If you reside near the market or are concerned, you can receive free testing at the mobile testing units.

 

“None of the patients who tested positive have shown serious symptoms and they are now being treated at Samut Sakhon and Krathum Baen hospitals in separated negative pressure rooms,” added Anutin.

 

“People can safely travel to Samut Sakhon or pass through it to other provinces.”

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30399857

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2020-12-19

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

13 cases? My wife just got an email from her contact in the BKK office of her company (large multi-national based in the USA) that there are 500 positive cases in the province.

Maybe thais know something the media doesn't mention

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Why has Anutin not been fired yet? He is so incompetent, has no experience in the field of health and just cannot help but put his foot in his mouth, nearly every time he opens it. He is the polar opposite of diplomatic. Not to mention being a racist. 

The Health Minister in Austria is a teacher by trade.. he was characterized as being "overwhelmed by himself and the situation". Seems like Thailand is not alone here

17 hours ago, Percy P said:

I'm sure it's better to be locked away for Two weeks then being locked away forever 6 foot under. Take your choice.

Not everyone who gets the virus dies.. why do people always assume that???

7 hours ago, Mung said:

You might not be far from the truth. 
 

Do you remember the initial videos that came out of China at the very start of the viral outbreak? They depicted people fainting in the streets, hospitals rammed to the brim, and the whole scene felt like a dystopian horror movie. Months later, these scenes have not really been repeated anywhere else, which leads to suggest that those videos may have been faked.

 

Secondly, do you also remember how when the virus first emerged? WHO said that planes did not need to be grounded as that would not prevent the spread of the virus. Of course this is nonessential, it would have stopped the viral spread as that much is obvious. This was said by WHO when the virus was only in China and then subsequently in Thailand. The head of WHO, Tedros, had an odd relationship with the Chinese leader. Sources stated such things as, 

"the two men met in the Chinese capital, the number of cases was rising, and revelations were emerging that officials in Hubei province and Wuhan -- the city where the virus was first detected -- had sought to downplay and control news about the virus, even threatening medical whistleblowers with arrest."

Let's also remember that Chinese doctor who 'died' from the virus.

 

Thirdly, we have yet to establish where the virus originated – it's still an unknown. We do know that Wuhan is the home of the only biological weapons manufacturing location of such a magnitude to create something such as an engineered virus. Also, how did the Chinese obtain the the genetic sequence of the virus as early as February the 25th?

"Scientists in China have sequenced the genome of the COVID-19 virus demonstrating that it is a completely new virus, albeit closely related to the coronavirus (CoV) responsible for severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). Their findings are published in the journal Chinese Medical Journal."

 

Fourthly, China has upped their spending power during the economical downturn on foreign assets, as a means to grab them at devalued prices.

"Even as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to affect the global economies and businesses, Chinese companies have upped the ante to acquire or invest in distressed foreign assets in strategic locations. Against this backdrop, governments across several nations are now concerned about this move by China, according to GlobalData, a leading data and analytics company. Several media reports also suggest that there has been a growth in Chinese companies seeking proposals for targets from banks. During January to April 2020, 57 Chinese outbound M&A deals worth US$9.9bn and 145 Chinese outbound investments worth US$4.5bn were announced. The key M&A target destinations for Chinese firms included Hong Kong, the US, the UK, Germany, France, Canada and India. The key investment destinations during the period included the US, India, the UK, Hong Kong, Japan, France, Germany, South Korea and Australia."

 

Now the question must be asked, was all of this a plan from the start?

You seem to discount the fact that Covid was detected in blood samples in Italy (a cancer research Study) in September 2019 and in blood donations in the USA in December 2019 (samples in 9 states and more than 1% positive ).  This was before Covid even was an issue anywhere.  It seems that the virus was around much longer than we think.  And Pfizer apparently creates their vaccine within 2 days in early February... 

Hospitals are full in some parts of the USA - but only 10% are Covid patients - the rest is either other diseases or injuries (people still get cancer, diabetes, heart attacks car accidents etc).  Hospitals are not designed to be running at 5% capacity to be ready to accommodate a surge - not enough profit that way.  They are 80% full to make money - and initially laid off staff in the USA when elective procedures were stopped in March/ April as there were no patients.. then the business of medicine returned and free capacity shrunk again. Germany had similar issues when they had a severe flu season in 2017 and some cities ran out of bed capacity.

Yes, the Chinese are taking advantage of a situation that is being caused by other governments driving their economies into a wall - no question that they are opportunistic.  But not really a plan they started as the reaction of other countries could have been different (and Australia and the USA have had very different approaches and outcomes).

At the same time, there are rich Europeans and Americans who are also buying up businesses and real estate at bargain rates.  If you have money, this was the time to buy and position yourself for the future.

1 hour ago, grumpy 4680 said:

                                   Countries with rampant covid crisis.

                              How much madder can a Government get.

         If the corrupt Government officials gave back all they have pilfered, there would be no panic for tourist's to return.

The rampant covid crisis has 2% of the population infected at the moment (as most recovered). Again, 2%, which means 2 people out of 100 you meet on the street.

Plus most infected have no symptoms- in 2019, we called these people healthy.

Everyone is acting like covid infects 90% of the population and kills every infected person.

Learn to live with it and manage it... can't eradicate the virus

4 hours ago, mike1967 said:

I'm a bit confused. They say you won't need a visa if travelling from the 56 countries but a VOA is still not available. What is it you actually need?

It depends what citizenship you have.

If a citizen of these 56 countries, you can enter without a visa (like before).. just have to stay in quarantine for 14 days (They are not mentioning changes to covid insurance or negative test before departure - so they seem to be still required)

Some countries used to get VOA at BKK airports. That is not possible. You have to get a visa in your home country

2 hours ago, Time to grow said:

If you are concerned over fears of infection from Covid, the drug Ivermectin has shown very strong protection from the virus. See the Thaivisa thread, "Ivermectin looking promising in lab against Covid-19". There you will see studies linked and a US Senate testimony by a physician and World subject matter expert from two days ago.

Funny that we are not hearing about this in the USA..

Only the end of the world is coming on local or national TV or in newspapers 

5 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

Yes, from the onset of the news out of Wuhan they were on to it, being the first country to test for covid outside of China in January while other countries were dithering.
 

By February most Thais were masking up while other countries were declaring they were not necessary and PPE had been distributed to the over 10,000 hospitals in Thailand.

 

By March they had road blocks temperature testing and then testing those with high temperatures immediately. Similar to get into shops, plazas and airports.

 

Late March they implemented a state of emergency and locked down with curfews and alcohol bans.

 

By April it was largely controlled in Thailand and in May they had developed the Thaichana app. 
 

It is December and they are still temperature testing to enter supermarkets etc and still most Thais are masking up.
 

The last two days the Thais have really clamped down again after this cluster was imported by stupid and selfish hookers. Thankfully they have mobilized again quickly and set up emergency Covid facilities to handle any outbreak.

 

World’s best practice.

 

Nearly half the countries in the world deaths are in the thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands deaths with bodies piling up.

The Thais are not even in triple figures.
 

Yesterday the USA had the most deaths ever with over 3,000 dying. Worldwide over 12,000, it is getting worse, not better. If only they had followed Thailand’s example, it would have saved over a million lives.

 

With chinese tourists roaming freely in december 2019, January and February 2020 thailand should have seen a big number of infections by late February.  

3 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

Define "very expensive".

 

There are ASQ hotels starting at 35K ... for transport from the airport, 3 meals a day, covid tests and medical on call.

I can think of nothing better than spending more than USD 1000 to stay in a hotel room for 2 weeks and get 3 meals and covid tests.

If I stay home, I can at least go outside, walk, exercise, play tennis or go to the beach and gym... all things I can not do in ASQ

11 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

I know a lot of people who come on extended holiday and 45 days will definitely be a big help. You need to look beyond the people on the left and right of the Nana Plaza barstool you're sitting on, and maybe see there are many people with the means for extended holidays.

So funny, when they initially suggested the STV, I heard the exact same argument that there were "a lot" of people who would be interested.  There were not - not even Europeans who wanted to escape winter.  

The rules are just to difficult - 30 days, 45 days, 90 days - it does not matter.  As long as there is a quarantine requirement, there will only be a few interested travelers who have to come to Thailand

19 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

45-day Tourist Visa Mulled

 

 

BANGKOK, Dec 7 (TNA) – The government’s business easing committee will propose the government extend the validity of tourist visas to 45 days from 30 days to attract visitors.

 

National Security Council secretary-general Gen Nathapol Nakpanit in his capacity as the director of the committee discussed with committee members the idea as well as COVID-19 situation in Mae Sai district of Chiang Rai province.

 

After the meeting, Chaturon Chaiyakham, deputy director-general of the Consular Affairs Department, said the prime minister ordered the Foreign Affairs Ministry to work out measures to attract visitors.

 

Full Story: https://tna.mcot.net/english-news-596716

 

-- © Copyright TNA 2020-12-07

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

The government needs to understand that they will not get many interested visitors as long as they have quarantines, insurance requirements etc.  Another issue is whether the government of the source country is allowing citizens to return without quarantine.

People will not go on vacation, if it is a hassle.  People will only endure these restrictions, if they have to go to Thailand.  If there is no need to go, then there is always next year