moontang

2 minutes ago, newnative said:

    I doubt renting one condo on Airbnb is 'extremely profitable' after you deduct the monthly condo fee, the monthly water fee, the monthly electric fee, the monthly internet fee, the laundry fee, the maid fee, the Airbnb fee, the breakage and resupply fee, and the fee to pay someone to check in and out the illegal renters.  It likely can be profitable if you have 30 or 40 condos you are renting and can utilize economies of scale.  

I agree, and even if you lived in the same building it would require quite a bit of time and illegal work.  It is not a punctual society.  How many backpackers are walking around with bedbugs and lice, or at least have then in their belongings. And some of the cooking people do in hotel type rooms is shocking.. A friend was saying, he wasn't that upset his whole house smelled like <deleted> after the Russian family left, but if only they had told him where they hid the dirty diapers. 

The definition of a balanced market in the US is a 6 month supply of homes, based on how many sold the previous six months.  So 12000 means little without knowing how long of a supply that is, or even 12k of how many. My last trip to the land office was 15 months ago, and it wasn't dead by a long shot.  The big banks have people who are permanent fixtures in there, with their own big table in the back. I noticed a lot of the ghost buildings on the newly opened purple line, but they just weren't complete.  Kind of like some of the new train lines.. they have looked ready for a year. 12000, 12000, 12000.. make that 103 times mentioned here.. Haven't seen a single report of the publicly traded developers having difficulties, but there is some bluffing and gambling going on.  Not difficult to turn a condo into an apartment building or even a hotel, and vice versa. Might be a good time for a crackdown on airbnb.. like there is in many markets.. not fair to the condo residents and not fair to the hotels.  Kind of like the illegal teachers.. might help a few, but it harms the much bigger picture. 

I sold my place after four years in CM last year.  Moved into a rental for a three month minimum in Udon.  Didn't like the first floor being used as a hotel.. just more noise.. not a big problem.  Almost worthless cable TV.  Sub par WiFi.. but was free.  8 for electricity... which was lowered to 5, but a service charge was added... but no fans in the room.  Minimum water usage about double actual use. Most of the particle board stuff was warped and couldnt function properly, and the front office tries to get their finger in everything.. bottled water, cleaning, laundry.  And the fridge was one of those single door pieces of Chit, that needed frequent defrosting and uses twice the energy of my larger Toshiba inverter that was 6600 at Power Buy. The pluses were it was cheaper than an equivalent hotel, but by very little, she returned my deposit on the spot, and it was in their interest to maintain good security.  Ended up buying in a well functioning building on the edge of BKK. Not making more than 5% a year when all is said and done, but it is regular, steady, and it is like getting a monthly cash dividend tax free, while enjoying cheap, clean ac, fast Internet, and safe electrical, and even a hatari wall fan.. every room should have one.. 

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

You don't have to have sales data to see that a property bubble has burst.  Many times there are simply abandoned properties, because they could not be sold.  Eg. The US, post GFC.

 

Found this article after a very quick Google.  Yes, it's Bangkok, but at 12,000 condo's for sale in Pattaya, I think it fair to say the Pattaya property market is experiencing similar conditions.

 

https://www.thailand-business-news.com/real-estate/75873-record-low-condo-sales-hits-bangkok-condo-market.html

 

You give one example of your friend's sale in Hua Hin, but what about the 12,000 condo's sitting on the market here?  Do you think that indicates a healthy property market?

 

 

Who are "we?"  Are you talking about collective owners in your own condo block, or are you in real estate here?

 

 

So, it's all about the balcony light bulb only, not electricity into the whole property?  Give me a break. 

 

Note in the above article:

 

"Empty homes (Every type of residential units) are residential units which use less electricity than 15 units per month which indicates that there is almost no use."

 

 

 

 

 

There was a fire sale in the US, when the Internet bubble burst and in 2008....there were fire sale prices in both cases.. Still waiting to see the link to the fire sale in bkk or Patts.  12000 units for sale.. Out of how many.. 240,000?  That would be 5%.  10%+ turnover per year is normal in many markets.  We, as in my co-owners are selling about 2% of our thirty year old building.  During the GFC, saw entire hoods with half the units in some state of foreclosure.. not pretty, but anyone, who bought did very well, including stockholders of companies like Blackstone that bought thousands and thousands of units, and has raised rents 100%, in ten years to all the genius renters that wouldn't buy at the high or the low. They are the real losers in the game.  They never played.  But, just rent is a great soundbite for the Lefty nanny staters, who just love to be victims.. it just reaffirms their status as commoners.  

39 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Care to comment about a property market where people walk away, and leave properties abandoned? Think some cities in America, post GFC. 

 

See all the condo blocks here with no lights on at night?

 

A lot of people don't want to sell for a loss, or can't afford to sell for a loss.  They are willing to hold out for the price they paid for their condo, or more, but this is undermined by the continual oversupply, and now visa law changes, and exchange rates. 

 

This is why many condo's remain on the market here for years. All the while, with more and more coming onto the market.

 

Many of these vendors will struggle to sell, even in a fire sale. 

 

I'm guessing many now wished they rented, and not bought in. 

 

 

How old are your friends?

 

 

Do you think 12,000 condo's for sale, in a major tourist destination, in a major tourist destination country, is the sign of a healthy property market? 

 

How many condo's would have to be on the market before you say something is amiss?  20,000 condo's?  25,000 condos? 

 

Yeah, the bubble did burst in most of the US.  I bought a condo in Summerlin, a townhouse in Phoenix, and a house in Phoenix in 09-10...all at more than 75% off of previous sale.  I kept the house for two years, and sold it myself for 160% more.. now 7 years later, the buyer has it listed for 1000% more than I paid and 370% more than he paid.  As stated, if the bubble burst, there would be some fire sales and auctions.. just like the US.. Maybe you could post a link to one such fire sale in Patts or any other city in Thailand.. Or is the Internet broken, today?  A friend sold easily for 8.7 in Hua Hin over the Summer.  I visited right before he closed, and even used it a few times sin e he built it 10 years before.  He could have gotten 12m in 2012, with a similarly strong THB, and was slightly regretful, but he had many renters at 20,000 per week, and a few leases at 35-45 per month.. all legal and above board.  So like Patts, prices are down some, but he was firm on his price and it was not important for him to sell.  700m from the crappy beach, Chinese and Russians all over the place, and a local restaurant selling an ear of corn for 170 THB.  The Chinese are always eager to get money out, and will take less than 3% yields in prime areas.. And the lights are off... give me a break.. about the 1000th time I have heard that.  We have 6 units for sale out of 571 units.. on any given night, there are less than five balcony lights on.. superstition, not wasting electric, can't find someone to change a bulb up high? who knows.. but we are highly occupied, and there is a total of one unit in default to the condo office.. legal documents hanging from his door, and noted in the annual report.. thirty year old building.  So maybe try something a bit more based on data.. or at least post a link.  Plenty of cash around to buy at a fire sale, too.  By all means, let us know.  

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

Computers are liable for 7% VAT on import, no other duties.

A lot of the name brand stuff, like HP, run 30% more here, than US.. monitors even more.  Some of the big ones will not give global warranty, though.  Looks like you are now paying 2000 for a win 10 home license... Less than it used to be...people commonly spend more time "fixing" Windows in one day, than I have in 6 years of Chrome book ownership.  I would probably buy anhp or Lenovo all in one here, if I had too.  Had good luck with cords and peripherals here, but have noticed a huge supply of fake SD cards going around.. Jib seem trustworthy in that regard.  They did a study on USB, and found a lot of it isn't 3, but 2, and the 2 can be a 1..but that is a global problem. 

39 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

"You are highly likely to have to pay duty on a computer.. probably 30%..."

That's incorrect, computers are not liable for import duty.

It is certainly not a free ride... Customs, duty, excise.. It is all a bite in the ass.  Maybe you can explain why they used to collect deposits from people bringing laptops in... 

They have barely scratched the surface of the India mob.  And the Chinese are just starting... must seem pretty cheap to them compared to South China.  You can't set your price based on exchange rates, but they can give you some breathing room if you don't buy when the fx is terrible.  But what is bad for you may be great for others.  A million THB condo in Patts or a million baht car or truck.... I am going with the condo, even though I personally don't like Patts, but never say never.  

https://www.jib.co.th/web/product/readProduct/35621/124/NOTEBOOK--โน้ตบุ๊ค--LENOVO-IDEAPAD-330-14AST-81D5007MTA--BLACK-

9 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

@moontang. Thanks for posting a local place.

 

Did you mean JIB though? I searched their site for "netbook", 0 results: https://www.jib.co.th/web/product/product_search/0?str_search=netbook&cate_id[]=

Yes, JIB.. Try chrome book or notebook.. The term netbook may not be used here.. Also.. Newegg. It will take you to their Thai site. 

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

People seem to be prepared to hold on to property here waiting for the right price. Perhaps because the overheads are low, no property taxes. 

Yep, and maintenance fees are usually much less than we are used to... desperate sellers are often those with trouble making payments.. so even a foreigner forced out might still use it for a few months a year, let alone renting it out, which again justifies leaving it empty.  My fees are 10,000 per year.. Less than parking for three weeks at Dulles.  10000 is worth it to keep my personal belongings here and have a functional home, when I visit.  Just don't pay top dollar and you won't have to sell for top dollar, but can still try.  

JB Computer is decent... You are highly likely to have to pay duty on a computer.. probably 30%, of cost plus shipping. T3 tablet from Huawei for about 3000.. Chrome books about 6500....all in one PC for about 9000.

5 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Thought about buying somewhere last time I was in the UK until I discovered the council tax was 179 quid a month and water 41 a month. What's that over 8k baht a month before you get started on the gas and electricity. ????

Pops Internet and TV are 6000, watersewertrash 3600, prop tax 6000... 

Air

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Digital Nomad selling scam courses

55 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Fees are not especially high?? Less than 3% (including both buyer and seller fees) for the condo I sold last year.

If you held more than five years... Quite high compared to the US, or selling a REIT at zero costs. 

Easing ridiculously high land office fees has been done before, and will be done again.. now if they would only try a moratorium on the wine tax.  You just don't have high enough leverage here.. Yeah, they are up to their noses in debt, but not collateralized loans.  Mortgages never got stupid easy here, like they did in the West.  Not much of a foreclosure market, at all.  Look at www.bam.co.th

Hardly anything there, that you couldn't walk into the juristic office  and find a better deal on the bulliten board. The biggest factor in determining whether a home will go into foreclosure is the down payment, or how much skin they have in the game.  Couple no down with sub prime, and it was a recipe for disaster in the US.  But, there is also recourse here.. even if they quit paying and mail the keys to the bank.. they are still on the hook for maybe decades. 

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I love renting and have moved around experienced different places. Great here as 90% of the places come furnished no need to be dragged down my a bunch of "stuff".  Could get up and go anyplace I like tomorrow with a few suitcases.

The place I am in now in north Pattaya is new will sell for close to 2.5 to 3 million b my rent is 10,000 b a month free TV channels.

I owned houses all my life started at age 21 in the states made a bundle in Calif.  Kept my money liquid in true investments.

Which is why I can spot a fake, non transparent no one truly knows what is going on real estate market when I see it.

12,000 units for sale.  You know how long it will take for that inventory to catch up to the market?

Many many years if ever as they keep building.

 

If one must buy they need to negotiate very very low. 50% may be too much but 30% lower sounds good.

Also, with the desperation, some sellers are willing to carry back paper on the units.  Meaning, you put lets say 30% down and they carry the rest for 7 to 10 years you making payments at a very low interest rate or maybe 0 interest.  Like getting a loan but no bank, the seller is it. You are not putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

That is what I would do if I wanted to buy. Be smart and creative negotiate, negotiate all in your favor many of these people just want out...

 

 

 

 

If the market was as bad as many say, there would be many good deals, but there simply aren't.  And been hearing about no balcony lights on for 10 years+... It is just not customary to use them here.  I use mine, but got one of those Sampran led bug lights.  You are still tied to your lease... but that may simply include forfeiture of your deposit... but extensions and TM30 and 90 day reports make it tough on gypsies.  With no escrow companies here or account services, not sure owner financing would be wise, but have gone that route in the West.. A foreigner is not likely to be able to carry a mortgage, and that is where I would be looking for a discount.  I have listed a few here, and was approached by several Thais thinking I had to leave and would sell cheap... just asking for proof of funds weeds out most of them. Many just want to be a middleman.. just like those we buy ugly house people in the West. 

14 hours ago, fhickson said:

being stuck in one crappy location sucks though, especially if your not tied to one place because of work or family.

Can pack my book bag and go to the beach anytime.  You are forgetting the high cost of moving.. even if you do it on the cheap.  Hours and hours of work, when all is said and done.. usually lucky if only one thing gets broken.  

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I can buy a 'fixer upper' farm in France for 9,000 Euros (plus 2,000 Euro notary fees).

I was actually looking in Slovenia the other day... an amazing array of neat cottages around 20k euro.  Czech Republic, too.. Lots of pollution issues and cities with declining population. 

I just checked cheapest apartment in Springfield, VA... 1510 usd 725 sf, 1 br. puts you 14 miles from the Pentagon. 

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You can rent a two bed semi/terrace near Durham for 300gbp/month.

No employment prospects but the heritage coast and the Lake district are nice. 

 

240gbp/month for this 2 bedroom terrace, near the sea.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-68307877.html

Interesting.. that would put you in about the lowest one percent of rents in the US.  Many entire states have zero rentals at 400 usd per month. 

600 gbp for rent in the UK, for 4?  Seems kind of low by us standards.. if you are anywhere near the better job markets.  What kind of place? Have you looked at cost of living comparisons on www.numbeo.com?

Yeah, you got the idea.  I smell scam, though.  Primarily because it involves the same bunch of clown's from the dropshipping business attempting to make a lot more money by promoting it, than actually doing it.  Marginally employed, young, naive, with a liberal arts degree... A perfect storm for scammers.  SEO?  so many of the scammers push this.  Yeah, they can outsmart Google. 

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

I agree. I always look for the Import label but have seldom ever bought any alcohol from 7/11 except the occasional Leo.

The 200 ml Jameson are 329..same price as the others... pretty good in a cup of Birdy Robusto. I had heard about someone being served fake Jameson at a bar.  But, the Absolut thing is way out of bounds. 

if they are that hard to sell, you should be able to get one pretty cheap.  I like being an owner because I can have things that most rentals don't have..inverter ac, inverter frig, three wire not water heater, special faucet, rebuilt toilet tank, led lighting without all the holes in the ceiling, and removal of all old ceiling files covered in 30 years of soot...my own wifi, my own MEA account, ability to do my own tm30, and ease of proving where I live.  Would never be a landlord at these yields, though. I paid under a million in bkk, can walk to MR T and the ferry.

3 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

Once I was in hotel swimming pool with my wife and 2 guys came in with a big ass camera started filming everything. I told them stop filming or I;ll punch you in the face.

 

I punched him in the face.

can be kind of sensitive when the wife could be mistaken for your granddaughter.