Mike Teavee

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

I  am not a business, my income, about 4 million, is entirely derived from pensions, will they look after me?

I'm sorry you'd have to ask them as they do look after my mate's tax needs BUT he also has a business here so it could be a "Packaged" deal. 

15 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

This is the not so good part, especially for those that thought they would be able to buck the system by claiming earnings as savings

 

Quote

It is noted that this credit relief may not be applied if you bring the income into Thailand in a different tax year from the year that the income has been recognized, in other words, you may have to pay tax in both countries. 

 

This would be a huge consideration as basically it would mean that instead of leaving it until the next Fiscal/Calendar year to bring (already taxed) income across, you would now have to bring it over in the same Fiscal/Calendar year as it was earned or you would be liable for tax on it again, even though you've already paid tax on it a previous year!

41 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

I thought  departmental Instruction No. Paw.162 ("DI Paw. 162" ) was issued 

20 November 2023.

It was a Google Translate of the article in the Opening post of this thread.

Just checked on Apple Translate & that shows it as 16/2556

24 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

It has been posted across multiple threads including this one.

Whilst the original article posted in the Thaiger (and other places) stated people from countries that have a DTA with Thailand will be exempt, the original statement from the Revenue Department quoted in the article makes no mention of this. 

Revenue Department orders No. P.162/2023
Subject: Payment of income tax under Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code.

For the revenue officers to consider as a practice guideline for inspecting and giving advice to those residing in Thailand. which has assessable income according to Section 40 of the Revenue Code In the past tax year Due to work duties or business conducted abroad or because of assets located abroad according to Section 41, paragraph two, of the Revenue Code The Revenue Department has ordered the following:

1. Clause 1: Persons who are residing in Thailand according to Section 41, paragraph three, of the Revenue Code. who have assessable income due to work duties or activities conducted abroad or because of property located in a foreign country according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code In the said tax year and brought the assessable income Entering Thailand in any tax year That person has a duty to include that assessable income in the calculation. To pay income tax according to Section 48 of the Revenue Code In the tax year in which the assessable income was brought into Thailand
2. Article 2: All rules, regulations, orders, letters responding to consultations. or any practice that is contrary to or inconsistent with This order shall be cancelled
3. Article 3 This Order shall come into effect for assessable income imported into Thailand from 1 January 2024 onwards.

Ordered on 22 September 2023
(Mr. Lawan Saengsanit) Director-General of the Revenue Department

Edit: Playing Devils Advocate you could argue that Article 2 could include the cancellation of DTAs, I don't know about other countries but Thailand simply has to give the UK 6 months notice if it wanted to cancel the TH&UK DTA.

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Not so.

Per Post above, you need additional Column(s) to say whether the individual was Tax Resident in the year the remittance was brought over, only a "Yes" answer would lead to Tax being due in Scenario 1. 

4 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

According to the chart below you would appear to fit into Scenario No. 1, although how they would be able to collect tax if you are not here is a different matter.

The table needs an additional column "Tax Resident in the year the income was remitted" - If "Yes" then I agree it would be Scenario 1 & Tax would be payable, if "No" then no Tax would be due. 

15 minutes ago, beammeup said:

Question: If you have foreign income in 2024 and are tax resident but do not remit the money until 2025 at which time you are not tax resident, Is it taxable?

No, the money would be remitted in a year that you were not Tax Resident so you would not need to complete a Return or pay Tax on it. 

If however, you remitted the money in 2026 when you were Tax Resident, then (DTAs aside) you would be liable to Tax on it.  

However, if you earned income in 2025 whilst you were not Tax Resident & remitted this to Thailand in 2026 when you were Tax Resident, you wouldn't need to pay Tax on it in.

You can see how it's going to be essential to keep track of when money was earned.

1 hour ago, roo860 said:

Nice

Lol, I love the "While You Wait" part...

Was once was working in a city I didn't know & I asked 1 of the girls in the office there where I could get a haircut & she told me of a place...

... and then said "And they'll cut it while you wait"!!! 

(What she meant was I didn't need an appointment). 

I'm not bored, but I do tend to get up much earlier than the GF so my morning routine is:-

   1. Easy/Medium puzzles from https://www.dailykillersudoku.com/ (The harder one I save for if we're having a night in & she puts on a crappy movie) 

   2. Watch ( & do if their solve time is < 45 mins) the 2 Daily puzzles from Cracking The Cryptic https://www.youtube.com/@CrackingTheCryptic/videos

   3. Catch up on UK News Headlines (https://news.sky.com/) & AseanNow.

   4. (Once 7am hits) do the daily Plusword (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/plusword/)  & of course Wordle (https://www.nytimes.com/games/wordle/index.html) - I do this as a "Competition" with my family back in the UK so it's a good way to ensure we speak daily.

   5. The Guardian mobile app for the daily mini Sudoku, mini crosswords & sometimes the full crossword (No matter how hard I try I cannot get my head around "Everyman"'s crosswords :( 

   6. Daily Thai tips from Banana Thai & Learn Thai with Mod

https://www.youtube.com/@BananaThaiSchool 

https://www.youtube.com/@ThaiwithMod/videos

... And then back to AseanNow whilst she gets ready to go out :) 

Edit: Apart from Cracking the Cryptic, my other YouTube viewing tends to depend on what I'm in the mood for at that time, examples would be...  

   1. Lockpicking https://www.youtube.com/@lockpickinglawyer

   2. Card Tricks https://www.youtube.com/@CardMechanic/videos 

   3. Computer Security https://www.youtube.com/@davidbombal

   4. Network Security https://www.youtube.com/@NetworkChuck

   5. "Science" https://www.youtube.com/@TheRoyalInstitution

Took the GF to a local place (She had a craving for Somtam) last Friday, place was really busy but there was a group of tables with nobody sat there so we sat at one... 

Waitress comes over, pointing at the ceiling saying (In Thai obviously) "Snake Snake", looked up & there was a 6ft Python that had made it's way to the middle of the rafter on the ceiling!!!

City Council guys were called & after a 15 mins struggle managed to get it into a bag...  

... Somebody had snake for dinner that night :) 

IMG_5701.mov

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

If you pay tax in the Uk, you won't pay tax in Thailand. This new rules is focused on Thais with foreign income that they  are not paying tax on already. I wouldn't be concerned at all, if I were you. Me, on the other hand have a lot of concerns as I get paid by a British company and a German company.

I hope (& think) you're right but my plan is to do nothing until I know for sure & if worse comes to the worse, bring the money over in 2026 when I plan on being non-tax resident for the year.

Presumably you're already paying Tax in UK / Germany on your income so wouldn't it be better for you to be Taxed in Thailand where the taxes are lower? 

When I was a UK Bank Employee on secondment in Singapore, both charged me Income Tax but I was able to show to HMRC that I'd already been taxed on the Income in Singapore & so got a full Tax Refund of the Income tax Paid in the UK (Which was nice :D ) 

27 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I know there will be no additional tax on my State Pension.

 

1. Because I am not old enough to claim it.

 

2. It would also be taxed in the UK, so unlikely to be taxed again in Thailand

I agree, it's highly unlikely State Pension will be taxed in Thailand, I think (hope) that the RD will recognise that it's already been Taxed (albeit at 0%) & so consider it fully Tax Paid, (TBH I haven't thought much about SP as I'm 110 months away from being able to claim it & even I don't plan that far out!!!)

I personally believe they will do this for all Pensions where you can provide a statement of benefits/tax paid or maybe a Tax Return showing you've paid the tax, but again we can't be 100% sure so can only try to plan for what we're going to do if they do start taxing it. 

This is why I think that most guys have little to worry about, as I keep saying my main concern is the money from the sale of my house & the Lump Sum from my Private Pension so these are the things that I'm trying to plan options for. 

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Forgot this part above.

 

Did your contingency planning not go something like this ?
 

1. Gather the facts

 

2. Assess the fact

 

3. Formulate a plan

 

4. Execute the plan.

 

Points 2, 3 and 4 are a waste of time and effort until point 1 is nailed down.

 

Guess it all depends where you learned your contingency planning.

That's a pretty simplified way of looking at it & might work for a  "6 Man / 6 Month" project but you never have all the facts at the start of a large (Multi year / 100's Million GBP) projects so you plan for what you know and create, manage, maintain a risk/issues register to try to plan for contingencies based on risks/issues you can reasonably perceive.

You can never plan for everything...  A classic example was the Pakistan Government deciding it was going to unilaterally switch to day light savings time in 3 days time whilst I was in the middle of rolling out the Desktop/Server estate there for a Global Bank

... but you can plan for something... We knew there was a risk of something like this happening so built in a mechanism where we could tweak local desktop settings & switched the time zone to Bangladesh & back again a few weeks later when they changed their minds.  

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Yes, I am and I have. The UK - Thai DTA is crystal clear on pensions.

 

That is why my Government pension will continue to be remitted to Thailand after the 1st January, my Private pension will go to my UK account until I get clarity.

 

Having said that. I still do not think that Thailand will try and tax income that has already been taxed in the UK.

You're fortunate in that the UK-TH DTA is very clear on Government Pensions but as you say, it's less clear on other Pensions (Including State Pension) so you don't know whether there will be additional tax to pay on it (Like you I don't believe there will be according to Rule 5 of the RD's FAQ) BUT you are taking action to minimize any impact to you until you get the "Clarity"     

This is exactly what I'm doing with my income, Rental/Dividend & Capital Gains from the sale of my UK House which aren't clear in the DTA... I hope things will be much clearer in 26 months when I start to receive my Private Pensions! 

21 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Wouldn't pay that tax in the UK?

I would have to pay Capital Gains Tax (I'm guesstimating 18%) as I've been Non UK Tax Resident for so long, other guys who maintain residency in the UK would have no CGT to pay if the house remained their "Primary Residency" (i.e. They've never rented it out). 

But even though I will pay tax in the UK, it's unclear how the Thai Revenue department would view this.... They could

1. Say I've already paid CGT so nothing more to pay
2. Say although I've paid CGT, the rate in Thailand is Income Tax rates so I need to pay the difference (For arguments sake let's say it's all in the Higher Rate Band so 35% - 18% = 17%).
3. Say yes you've paid CGT in the UK so give us the 35% & we'll give you a Tax Credit to offset future CGT tax in the UK [Which would be of no use to me as the only thing I'm liable for CGT on in the UK is my UK Home].

This is where the "Clarity" is needed before I fully decide what I'm going to do, key thing for me is to have some idea of what I'm going to do once I get that "Clarity". 

9 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Was your mate doing this in Thailand or some other jurisdiction?

 

The Jimmy Carr scheme was a bit brazen but the article suggested it was going to take a couple of years for HMRC to come up with rules to close the loopholes

No this was in the UK & was a few years back but I mentioned it as if somebody did go down a similar route then it could come back to bite them. 

53 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

If someone has a company in UAE or elsewhere, wouldn't it make more sense for the company to make loans to the Thai tax resident, rather than pay a salary?  Loan agreements can be structured so that the repayments can be done from outside Thailand.  Even if the Thai tax resident is a shareholder and/or director the RD cannot make objections to loans to them. Interest payments from Thailand would be subject to withholding tax but no need to pay interest from Thailand. 

This sounds like the "Dodge" my mate used to use for his consulting salary & it was eventually closed down so he had to repay a fortune.  

Same scheme that Jimmy Carr was investigated for https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jun/19/tax-scheme-jimmy-carr-hmrc

5 hours ago, beammeup said:

This gifting thing needs clarification, my understanding is that when you send the money you will be taxed but she is not liable for tax. You will be remitting the money so you pay tax.??

I would send the money from your overseas account directly to the Wife. so it could become Tax assessable for her, but if it's declared as a Gift there should be no tax to pay. 

If you send it to yourself then you could be liable for Tax on it, whether you can then transfer it to her & negate this tax remains to be seen. 

Some good points made about IHT, in the UK, normally everything you leave to your Wife wouldn't incur any tax, however this might not apply if you're married to a non-UK citizen, I'm not married so have never looked into it. 

3 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Read today this will affect all condo purchaches, house purchaches, bringing in large sums to buy land in wife's name. That will be easy to tax. Banks will turn that in.  Also read that with this tax they could start nabbing sponsors and illegal land ownership thru companys.

If you're bringing in up to 20 Million to give to the wife to buy land then just transfer it directly to her from your overseas account & declare it as a "Gift"... No Tax to pay. 

Even if you weren't married & wanted to give 20 Million to your partner to buy land in their name it might be worth sending it as a "Gift" as the Tax will be a flat rate 5% instead of the sliding scale up to 35%. 

If it's up to 10Million you might even get away with no tax to pay if you can show it was for a "Special Occasion" (I wonder if Birthdays count).

https://www.expat.hsbc.com/expat-explorer/expat-guides/thailand/tax-in-thailand/#:~:text=Inheritance and gift taxes&text=However%2C gifts received from a,year) are exempt from tax.

In general, gifts are taxed at a flat rate of 5%. However, gifts received from a legitimate parent, child or spouse (up to THB 20 million per year) or in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with custom and tradition (up to THB 10 million per year) are exempt from tax.

13 hours ago, doctormann said:

City should be Banglamung

Tambon should be Nongprue

City is "Bang Lamung", but the Tambon will depend on where you live in Pattaya, e.g. I live in Wongamat so mine is "Na Kluea". 

NB the spaces in "Banglamung" & "Nakluea" come from the drop down lists & how it appears on the application form.  

Boat Story https://www.imdb.com/title/tt23729238/

Two hard-up strangers stumble across a haul of cocaine on a shipwrecked boat. After agreeing to sell it and split the cash, they become entangled with police, masked hitmen, and a sharp-suited gangster known as 'The Tailor'.

Edit: It's on BBC & Amazon Freevee