Mike Teavee

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The tax reciprocity treaties cover retirement money.

Maybe for the US (and even then you could be liable for tax in Thailand if the tax rate is higher here) but UK State & Private pensions are not covered by the UK/TH DTA.

I do think you're right in that nobody should be getting stressed about it until we have more clarity but I do think people should consider bringing money over before 1/1/24 and delaying any planned remittances after that date until we have clarification. 

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

That first paragraph doesn't make any sense.

 

If you transfer in money from abroad in 2024, RD is going to flag it, and you will have to fill out a tax form. Presumably, while filling out the form, you can inform RD that the money came from income earned in 2023 or earlier.

 

I am giving myself a headache, so I will stop here.

No they're not, the onus is on you to file a return IF you have taxable income (which is exactly how it is today), the Revenue may or may not look at people who make large transfers but I can guarantee they won't look at somebody who sends <60K THB pa as they know there is no tax to pay.

FWIW I doubt they'd look at anybody sending <300K as even if there is Tax due it's not worth their effort to collect the <5K tax you might have to pay on it. 

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

By your definition "taxable income" = money transferred into Thailand from abroad.

 

So, my plan is to avoid being deemed a tax resident by not living in Thailand more than 180 days.

 

But, if that plan fails (ie, I get stuck in Thailand for some reason), then the backup plan is not to transmit any money into Thailand in 2024. Because if I transfer just $1 from abroad while being a Tax Resident (ie I remain in Thailand more than 180 days), then I must fill out tax forms. It's like being a little bit pregnant.

You only need to file a Tax return if you have income that is taxable in Thailand. 

The simplest example is if you transfer <60K then there is no need to file a return as all Tax Residents have a minimum of 60K personal allowance. 

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

My point is that doing the work to calculate your Thai tax liability is difficult and laborious. I came to Thailand to stop working, not learn a new tax system.

 

But I can avoid all that work by taking longer holidays abroad.

In which case it doesn't matter how much money you remit into Thailand. 

But even if you were Tax Resident, there is no need to file a return unless you have taxable income & all this talk of "I'll need something from RD to do my extension" is nonsense, there is no way that the RD can cope with an additional 300,000 Expat Tax Returns never mind the 100,000s of Thais that will get caught up in it. 

Granted they could re-instate the Tax Clearance certificate that you used to have to get if you'd stayed here longer than 6 months (IIRC Philippines still has something similar) but in that case you would need to get one whether you remitted any money to Thailand or not.   

29 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So, if I remain in Thailand less than 180 days, when my visa is renewed, Immigration won't impose the new tax scheme on me, ie they won't alert RD of any tax liability for me.

 

Sounds like a plan.

 

Meanwhile, just in case, I will transmit money from my home country to Thailand before January 1, and zero in 2024, just in case RD decides to tax those cash flows directly for all foreigners, tax resident or not.

 

 

You're ok remitting at least 210K (60K personal allowance & then the 1st 150K is taxed at 0%) after that it depends on your personal circumstances... 

1. Have Kids in Thailand, 30K per child can be offset against Tax
2. Married & Wife doesn't file a Tax return, you can claim her 60K personal allowance
3. Over 65, extra 190K allowance + up to 100K allowance against your pension 
4. Buy Health Insurance in Thailand? 1st 25K can be offset against Tax. 
5. Buy Life Insurance, 1st 100K can be offset against Tax. 

Am sure there are more but as a single guy my plan is to bring in 235K for me (60K PA + 25K for Health Insurance + 150K taxed at 0%) & 210K for the GF (Wired straight to her account from UK).

10 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

https://decider.com/2023/12/08/leave-the-world-behind-ending-explained-meaning-escapism-friends/

Good

I sat through this movie & wouldn't recommend anybody waste their time watching it but thanks for the link to the "Explainers", The fact that there was a need to "Explain" a movie plot sort off speaks for itself & even after reading the "Explanations" I felt like I'd wasted approx. 3 hours of my life... Shame really as I'd been looking forward to watching it since Netflix started pro'moing it. 

As always, YMMV, I've just finished watching "Bad Surgeon: Love under the knife" & really enjoyed it found it fascinating, but it's probably not everybody's cup of tea.

On 12/7/2023 at 9:15 AM, WorriedNoodle said:

Everybody's happy... 

6 hours ago, bikerlou47 said:

Just a quick mention..

The  USA has a tax treaty with Thailand..so any taxable income in the states can NOT be taxed in Thailand.

A few examples of where Thailand could tax US citizens (I'm British & don't even pretend to understand how US Tax works so please excuse me).

1. Any Income you've "Earned" that is Tax Exempt, Thailand might Tax you on it
2. Any Income that you've paid Tax in the US but Tax is higher in Thailand, Thailand might tax you on the difference
3. Any Income that you've "Earned" & already paid tax on in the US but you remit in a later year, Thailand might tax you on it.   

Not a Movie or TV Show, but a friend sent me this YouTube Video & it blew my mind... 

The guy (Ren) did it in 1 take (everything is live) & after Googling his life he's clearly talking about his battle with Psychosis & other ailments (recently hospitalized with Lyme Disease)  

Again, not for everybody but I thought it was a work of genius & he will be remembered. 

30 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I think we misunderstood each others because you write exactly what I said.

 

"If you earn income when you're Thai Tax resident, take a few years break & bring the money over when you are again Thai Tax Resident, you need to pay tax on it."

 

Indeed, you never have to pay tax on foreign source remittance in a year you are not tax resident in Thailand regardless of you tax residence status when you earned this money. You have to pay tax only if remittance occurs a year you are Thai tax resident.

 

The initial condition to pay tax is to be tax resident.

 

"If you earn income in a year you're not tax resident in Thailand, no tax to pay"

For savings prior 2024 but it's not clear for income generated from 01/01/2024 onwards

100% agree 👍🏻, sorry if I misunderstood your previous post. 

1 hour ago, tomkenet said:

Exactly my Strategy too

Wow, I wish I could do that but have you tried to open a Bank Account in your home country after being (Fully) Expat for a few years?

I know in the UK you've got no chance... I personally wouldn't even talk to my bank about opening a separate account in case they decided to "Look" at my accounts.

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

I don't get your point.

Anything you will remit in a later tax year (meaning you are tax resident) will be indeed taxable, but not if remittance occurs in any later year you are not resident for tax purposes (and then declare nothing).

NO... Let me explain this to you in simple terms...

If you earn income in a year you're not tax resident in Thailand, no tax to pay

If you remit income in any year you're not tax resident in Thailand, no tax to pay

If you earn income when you're Thai Tax resident, take a few years break & bring the money over when you are again Thai Tax Resident, you need to pay tax on it. 

You get my point now?

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

I think you're wrong on this point...  A country's "Statutory Law" is what counts, if that breaks an International Treaty then so be it, but no country is going to allow another country to dictate what it can & can't do.

 

For some reason it seems I'm not able to post a reaction to this post so what it's worth mine was a "Like"

7 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is why, people here shouldn't  think about evading tax altogether but only to minimise it in a sensible way.  For  instance my apparent lifestyle: wife, two kids, house, two cars, no swimming pool, can easily fit into a 2 million lifestyle, so that's I would show. I'd pay no  more than 10% of  my real income, which is twice that amount. Holidays, dining out, wine,  etc won't be paid from my Thai bank accounts anymore. Holidays will be mostly out of Thailand anyway, hence enabling cash imports...

 

Paying 5 weeks of earnings in income tax sounds about right to me.  But as long as  the LTR exemption stands I am  not going to volunteer.

Sucks to be you (I am joking here :D ) 

Seriously I think anybody who is on a small budget won't be impacted, anybody on a large budget will find (legal) ways around it & anybody on a medium budget needs to plan carefully... 

Unfortunately "Medium" budget is me, Fortunately I already know what I'm going to do so have the necessary "Plans" in place :)

Just now, Yumthai said:

The year(s) you are not tax resident in Thailand, you don't (have to) file any tax return (unless you have Thai source assessable income), so nothing to prove because you declare nothing.

Exactly...

But the post I replied to does have a very valid point... Let's say I'm normally Tax Resident in Thailand & in 2024 take a lot of holiday's so I end up spending only 150 days here, so whilst anything I earn (& remit) that year is not taxable, the onus is on me to prove that's the case when if I were to remit any earnings from 2024 in a later tax year. 

5 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Gift received by an ascendant, descendant or a spouse is subject to a tax on the amount of the gift received in excess of 20M THB in a tax calendar year (giftee is tax resident in Thailand and liable of the gift tax if any).

 

A daughter financially supporting her father is not illegal, but gift may be subject to rules depending on gifter tax residence.

No Tax up to 20Million and then 5% tax after that... 

12 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

You could argue that position because there is a RD ruling that held that employees of a Thai company but temporarily assigned to the Philippines could claim a tax credit for tax withheld in the Philippines. Otherwise there is nothing in the RC or rules or regulations that says that DTAs need to be taken into account in respect of personal income tax. On the other hand international treaties take precedence over statutory law which the director general of the RD doesn't have the authority to amend through P orders anyway. 

I think you're wrong on this point...  A country's "Statutory Law" is what counts, if that breaks an International Treaty then so be it, but no country is going to allow another country to dictate what it can & can't do.

12 hours ago, MistyBlue said:

I was astounded to hear it mentioned that income/gains/profits earned before becoming a tax resident potentially *could* be taxed when remitted later as a tax resident, based on the technicality and grey areas of the current laws and orders.

 

Thailand has no claim to anything you've earned in any year you are not Thai Tax Resident... BUT you might have to prove that you you weren't Tax Resident when you earned that income.

15 hours ago, kuma said:

If there is to be an increase in tax like ths, there has to be additional services/privileges offered to long term residents, not just here pay more, everything else is static...imo

<Rant On>

Why does there need to be additional services & privileges? 

Does your home country offer these to non-citizens/permanent residents just because they pay taxes, I know mine (UK) doesn't....

Sh!t I pay Tax (& Voluntary National Insurance contributions) & I don't even get free health care, instead I get to pay 1.5X what anybody who's not British would pay... And people talk about Thailand's dual pricing! at least they look after their own. 

<Rant Off>

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

How problematic it potentially could be remains to be seen.

 

It certainly cuts the legs of people, some of them on this thread who have been asking about remitting income as savings.

 

Ahhhh but Mr RD man, this is savings from 1995.

 

Is it really ? Then produce the paperwork proving that it has been taxed and we will refund the tax that you pay now.

 

All potential of course, not an avenue that I intend going down and chancing my arm.

It seems anything you have (Income or not) before 2024 will be treated as savings but going forward they seem to be saying that if you had a 100K pension & only brought 50K over for the 2 years 2024 & 2025 and then brought over the 1.2Million you'd saved in 2026, then this would be taxed (approx. 200K)!