Mike Teavee

2 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

But then again read  below from the tax  depts Thai website , the UK tax is  zero they should  apply that rate  according to them   as thats the better rate. I for one will certainly bring in no more than 150k and live of my Wifes  income if they start this stupidity   .https://www.rd.go.th/english/23520.html

 

 

5.   What happens if the rate of tax stipulated in the Revenue Code is different from that of an agreement?  

- Apply the rate which is more beneficial to the taxpayer.  

Thanks, that's a hugely important piece of information as it would seem to mean that any income covered by the Double Taxation Agreement/Treaty that has been tax assessed/paid in your home country would not incur any additional Tax in Thailand.

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

The allowances really need to be factored into consideration

 

The taxable income is not the 12500 example.

 

TAXABLE INCOME = Assessable Income - deductions - allowances

I agree but allowances (Both in Thailand & the UK) depend on personal circumstances so I deliberately left them out to try to answer the question about how you could be liable to Tax on your Private Pension in Thailand, despite it already being assessed for Tax in the UK, as simply as possible.

If I was to do it for me personally, I'm eligible to 60K Single Person Allowance & 25K Health Insurance allowance = 85K, so tax on the 560Kb could be..

   - First 235K (150K + 85K) taxed at 0% = 0

   - Next 150K taxed at 5% = 7,500b

   - Remaining 175K taxed at 10% = 17,500b

 Total = 25,000b Tax

14 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

I resumed filing after a few years between jobs and there was no question about the missing years. There is no obligation to file if you have no incone. Filing to reclaim tax on interest and dividends is optional. If they do ask, tell them you had no assessable income or file late returns claiming tax refunds which might offset late fines..

Thanks for this, I filed my 1st Tax Return this year to reclaim withheld tax on interest from the Bank in 2021/2022 & it was such a hassle (+ still haven't received the money 5 months after the status was updated to "Successfully submitted (Receipt issued)" ) that I wasn't planning on doing it again (I only did it this year as I had to get a TIN for my UK Bank) so it's good to know that it's optional if I'm not receiving any income in Thailand (I'm living on Savings I brought over in 2020/2021).

13 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

But then again no

Most of us pay tax on our private pensions...so that would be double taxation no?

It all depends on how the agreement is applied... 

E.g. A very simple example, you have a private pension of £12,500 pa (Approx 560,000b) which would generate no Tax as it's < the £12,570 Personal Taxation Allowance but your PTA in Thailand is 150,000 (Ignoring additional allowances), in a worse case scenario you could be liable to tax on all of it when you transfer it to Thailand . 

   - First 150,000 taxed at 0% = 0

   - Next 150,000 taxed at 5% = 7,500

   - Next 200,000 taxed at 10% = 20,000

  - Remaining 60,000 taxed at 15% = 9,000

Total Tax = 36,500b pa

7 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Hard to say as USofA has Double-Tax Agreement (DTA) with Thailand (1997) and UK does not.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

UK does have a DTA with Thailand (1981)

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

Somebody has already posted the link to the complete (iirc 61 countries) of DTAs along with links to the treaties, a summary of them can be found here... 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/foreign-tax-relief-and-tax-treaties

This video might be of interest to the OP's friend... 

It shows an example budget...

... and breaks it down so you can adjust it to your particular needs (e.g. We have friends & family visit a few times of the year so I go for 2br 2bth Condos near the Beach so obviously my Rent & Electric is a lot higher)

11 hours ago, JimGant said:

Only Americans will be paying no more taxes on their worldwide income under this new Thai tax proposal. Thus, all the complaints we're hearing on this thread must be from all those who have been getting a tax holiday by leaving their home country for Thailand -- and now that door is closing.

Are you sure you won't have to pay more tax overall? 

I have no idea how US Taxes work, but to use a few examples from the UK where additional tax may be due:-

1. Tax Free withdrawal from a Pension, in the UK you can take up to 25% of your pension pot Tax Free (I believe you guys can do something similar with a Roth IRA).
2. Where your Personal Allowance is > than the Personal in Thailand thus some of the income is untaxed (or taxed at the 0%/"Nil Band" rate).
3. Where you have income from a Tax free asset (an example would be an ISA in the UK).
4. Income from Rental, in the UK (and I've read US) you can deduct all maintenance costs, professional fees etc... so you're only taxed on the Net amount, in Thailand (I've read) you cannot deduct all of these fees so are taxed on a much higher amount.
5. Dividends, in the UK you do not need to pay anymore than the Withholding Tax. 
6. Interest from Bank Accounts, in the UK you do not need to pay tax on the 1st £1,000 interest.
7. Capital Gains, in the UK you do not need to pay Capital Gains Tax on profits from the sale of non-property assets.

Appreciate these are all examples from the UK, as I say I don't know how Tax works in the US so don't now if any of these would catch you guys . 

24 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Could work or not depending on how far back they look and how mixed funds are treated.  So while holding a LTR visa if offshore you put 98 in a short-term bond fund which you then sell at 100 and then remit this to Thailand, then the 2 (100-98) is certainly tax free because it is foreign income while holding a LTR visa.   But what about the 98 which is income from prior years where you did not hold an LTR visa?  Is this now also "cleaned" or not.  That is currently not clear at all. 

Depends on whether you were Thai Tax Resident in the years the income was earned & what Tax was paid on that income.

E.G. I moved to Thailand full time in 2020 so any money I bring into Thailand that was earned before then is not taxable. 
 

13 hours ago, Lorry said:

PS reading the Q&A again,  there is a hitch:

They say many times, that they are only taxing income from years in which you have been tax resident in Thailand (e.g. rental income from renting out your London flat in 2020, when you stayed 200 days in Thailand)

This income will  be taxable when you bring it into Thailand,  no matter in which year. 

Nowhere do they explicitly state that you also have to be a tax resident in the year the money is brought into Thailand. If that's not necessary, the consequences would be enormous. You could owe taxes for sending old income from 2020 (or 1999) into Thailand even if in the year of sending you are not in Thailand at all. The loophole would be closed,  but if you ever have stayed in Thailand more than 180 days, you better never send money into Thailand ever after.

Another reason why taxing on remittance doesn't work & why most countries that tax foreign income, tax you on it whether you bring it into the country or not (Not that I want Thailand to do this as it would mean even more Tax to pay for me, but that is the only way I can see this working).  

1 hour ago, Expat68 said:

If you were to send most of your money for the year in one hit, then surely you could argue that it is savings because you have not received the money yet

That would be the case if the "Not Sent in The Same Tax Year as Earned" rule was still in place but from 1/1/2024 they're saying income earned in previous tax years is taxable. 

So if the money your sending was from income in previous years then it is (DTAs aside) taxable.

E.g. let's say in 2024  you get $15,000 in dividends, $15,000 in rent & $5,000 in interest, if you sent this $35,000 in 2025/2026/2027 etc... it would be taxable.  

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Thanks. Yes, but the date on the statement should be roughly the same as the day you do your extension, or so I have read on here. True or not?

I believe it's only the letter confirming how much money you have in the bank (& your last entry in your bank book) that needs to be on/close to the extension date, Should be OK to get a 6 month statement produced & then get the 2nd 6 month statement a few months later. 

BUT as always, it depends on your IO so I would asked them beforehand. 

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

That looks like one of the poor ones, at 80yo you're looking at 300k+ a year for good insurance, at 60yo around 60k

50-60K at 60 is my expectation, when I renewed this year (just before my 57th birthday) I paid 31K (after a 10% no claims discount) which has 3.5M inpatient (no outpatient) cover & a 100K deductible.

13 hours ago, Olmate said:

300 bht week covers a non dodgy agent, no idea about dodgy ones,do you? 

154b pw (8K pa) if you meet all of the financial/insurance requirements,  241b pw (12,500 pa) if you don't meet the financial requirements + another 50bpw (2,500b pa) if you're on a Non-OA & don't have the insurance. 

15 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

That's good to hear. I shall ask at my IO in P'lok if that's the case, as it takes 1 week to get Bkk Bank annual statements. My December transfer will be on 1st Dec, but my Extension is due on 7th. Not much time.

I believe your local branch can do statements of up to 6 months (I've had no problem getting 3 month statements from them) so could you not order a 6/9 month statement from head office & then get a local statement after your 1st December transfer hits. 

3 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

You really should stop posting your fan fiction scenarios as if they were indeed fact.

 

"You have to provide copies....." - no, no you don't.   

Well that's what I was asked for when I filed my Tax return this year to claim back Withholding tax. 

As an aside they also asked me to complete an income questionnaire & almost every question was about pension income to which I replied N/A as I don't have any. 

Still waiting to get the tax back 5 months later.

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I will get a British state pension in 10 years. 

If I am still working, could I pay tax on the pension in the UK, and tax on my work (online) in Thailand?

 

Your UK Pension will always be taxed in the UK though the 1st £12,570 will be taxed at 0% rate (subtly different than saying it's "Tax Free" but the end result is the same). 

Your work/income in Thailand should be taxed in Thailand though it being online might make things less clear, I would say if you're paying tax on it in Thailand today then it would stay the same.   

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

If you transfer 100,000 how does anyone know from whence it came. Maybe 50,000 was a lottery win. ????

You have to provide copies of your home country bank statements so they would easily be able to see money coming in & could ask you to show where it came from. 

2 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Like I said, if they implement the withholding tax, this absolutely won't matter. It will be up to you to prove the money was already taxed back home.

 

 

But I wouldn't be receiving the money, I'd transfer it directly into her bank account from the UK  

20 minutes ago, Celsius said:

or transfer money to your bargirl du jour

I don't see how they can link it to you but I read on another thread that you're allowed to "Gift" up to 20Million so you would just say it was a gift (One of my "Plans" is to "Gift" the GF 1 Million Baht each year & let her pay all the bills) ???? 

I've mentioned this scenario before on another thread but every year I give my mate approx. £10,000 in the UK (money for his Kids presents & money he invests in the UK) & he pays me back in Thailand, I guess technically it could be said that I'm bringing this money into Thailand but how would they ever link the 2 things together? & if he's paying me back £3,000 125,000b for a flight to the UK that I paid for am I really bringing this money into Thailand?

6 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I don't understand your logic. Transferring funds into Thailand to purchase a condo is not income. It is simply a capital  transfer.

 

Income would be dividends or interest earned on overseas stocks????

Depends where the money came from that you Transferred, e.g. If you got a $20,000 dividend & added it to $80,000 savings to transfer $100,000 for a Condo purchase then the $20,000 is taxable (DTAs & Tax already paid aside). 

6 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Not sure something lost in translation here, but suppose I have an income of 200K a year (fictional figure) in my home country.

 

I have 1 million in my bank account in my home country.

 

Obviously, all money in my home country account is taxed before it get deposited, because the employer deducts taxes from your salary.

 

Now I send 200K over. Which year did I earn that?

This year,

Think of it as Building Blocks with any additional Income/"Block" going on top of previous savings/"Blocks", if you move any of the Blocks you start from the Top and work down. 

So in your Scenario, 200K earned would be taxable (DTAs & Tax already paid aside) but anything over this would come from your 1Million Savings. 

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

They're are many ways to avoid paying tax on this. 

How about sending smaller payments to different bank accounts via apps like Wise? 

How about buying USDT and using P2P on exchanges like Binance? This way, you have Thai baht going to your accounts from random Thai accounts. 

 

 

My plan was* to use the money as the $250K Investment I need to make to get the LTR Visa (My Income will be > $40K but < $80K pa so I need to add the Investment to qualify).  

*Still is the plan, will just do a Hotblack Desiato (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_exile) for 1 year & declare myself dead, well non-tax resident, to Thailand

1 minute ago, BenStark said:

This I have never understood how they can prove when you earned the money that you transfer.

 

Although if your foreign pension is deposited straight into your Thai bank account, then it isn't difficult to proof of course.

 

People who have their extension of stay based on the monthly income rule, may want to reconsider how this money arrives in their bank accounts

The way this is normally done (e.g. for calculating Capital Gains on a Share Sale) is LIFO (Last In First Out) so if you transferred money from your account to Thailand & showed them your home country bank statements (Which you need to do as part of a Tax Return), they would go through any interest earned in that Tax Year & say that part of the Transfer was the Interest earned. 

Big difference now is they can go back any number of Tax Years 

Of course this gets more complicated as in Future Tax Years you somehow need to be able to say that some of the Interest has already been taken into consideration for Tax purposes :S