RayC

On reflection, there's probably no need for elaboration. After all, you laid out such a compelling case in your original post.

Care to elaborate?

The 'new' normal seems to be more a lot more onerous for those involved in the transportation and logistics industries than the 'old' normal. It certainly appears to be a lot more complicated than truck drivers simply flashing their passports as they bid UK immigration officers a cheerful, 'Hail Fellow, well met' and are rewarded with a hearty 'God Speed' in reply. One company's take on the impact of Brexit. https://dfreight.org/blog/significant-impact-of-brexit-on-logistics-market/#:~:text=the new environment.-,Impact on Transportation,UK and other EU countries.

Let's assume that is the case. Then going back to the comparison between the Tories and Farage (UKIP) are you now saying that Brexit - at least, the Immigration part of it - wouldn't have been much different under UKIP? I still don't understand what point(s) you are trying to make?

You seem to be disagreeing with yourself. On the one hand, you say that the Tories have failed to live up to their promise to reduce immigration - and, presumably, are accountable? - while on the other, you imply that they have been the victim of circumstances and, presumably, therefore shouldn't be blamed? It's difficult to know what point you are trying to make.

Is it still circling?????

The straw clutching continues. In the context of Brexit, UKIP and the Parliamentary Conservative Party are one and the same: They both support it. There are probably any number of reasons why the Tories have been unable to reduce immigration. Imo one of the most likely is that the more economically literate members of the Tory party have come to the conclusion that reducing immigration would cause even more damage to the economy. Fortunately, this view seems to hold sway - and is, presumably, shared by the PM - at the moment.

And 'Never ending Brexit' rears its'head again????

So 'Boy David' who left office in 2016 is still pulling the strings in the Tory Party? There's straw clutching and, then again, there's STRAW CLUTCHING. One of the Tory Party's policies is to reduce immigration. The government is responsible for implementing Immigration policy. The Tory party are currently the party of government. Once again, I'm glad of your support in providing evidence to support my points.

Still plays a good tune and the lyrics still hold true.

That's because "They need us more than we need them" .... Oh, hold on a sec .....

I'm sure that it was unintentional but thank you for providing further evidence to support the idea that "It is always someone else's fault". The Tory Party which I refer to in discussion is the one which was purged of its' pro-EU MPs prior to the 2019 election, has been led by 3 pro-Brexit PMs and has had the likes of Bill Cash(!!!) and Jacob Rees-Moog in the cabinet. Is that the same 'Remain' Conservative Party which you are thinking of?

As @Chomper points out, nobody on the Leave side of the argument ever presented any plan for life post-Brexit. Always someone else's fault, which appears to be the default position for Brexiters. No accountability and no responsibility as usual.

That didn't take long. Five minutes ago you were the reincarnation of Marx, now you're a 19th century American slave owner!

Glad to have you on board, comrade✊ EU Employment legislation largely ensures that workers aren't exploited by unscrupulous employers, but a sizeable proportion of our governing party seem keen on repealing these laws. I'm all in favour of people getting a liveable wage. Maybe the UK government could fix minimum wages at a suitable level!

Somewhere in an EU state in Eastern Europe: - "Right, so that's me off to the UK to work" - "Got your visa?" - "No. Don't need one.....There's a shortage of fruit pickers and bar staff, so I should be able to pick up work easily enough. I can move from job-to-job if necessary. I'll give it a month. If it doesn't work out, I'll be back" - "Err ... The UK left the EU. You need a visa now, mate. You need to find a sponsor in the UK; fill out an application form, have £1200 in savings. The application will cost you £259 (non refundable). You may need to go to an application centre to have an interview and have your fingerprints taken (closest one to here is 100km away). Best allow yourself a couple of months for the process. No guarantee that your application will be approved. - Do what? I want to work in a bar or the fields, not try to become an astronaut! Sod that, I'll try France instead.

Once again, I agree. But that's not really the point. We are talking about the situation today. As I said in another post, it is now more complicated, time consuming and expensive for EU nationals - who don't have residency - to work in the UK.

You're right, they weren't. However, the Agricultural and Hospitality sectors are where there are major shortages of labour so it seems natural to focus on these sectors. These shortages are at least partially, due to the elimination of freedom of movement for EU workers In certain industries that is almost certainly true. However, that begs the question is wage inflation a good thing? In any event, if the government felt that wages were too low in certain industries, it could have introduced minimum wage regulation. They could but the paperwork and costs involved, plus the fact that most of these jobs are short fixed-term contracts with the visa limited to this timeframe, means that relatively low paid jobs such as fruit picking and hospitality type work are now pretty unattractive, especially when there are +/-30 countries (EU + EEA countries) where they can work hassle-free.

And people voted for that in the knowledge that fruit would be rotting in the fields because there aren't enough workers to pick the stuff? Seems a bit counter productive to me. What exactly is wrong with unskilled Europeans apart from the fact that they are unskilled and European?

And to think that you have previously accused me of twisting the narrative!!! I did not say - or even imply or infer - anywhere that "only high end migrants (were) being sought". What I actually said was ".. the new rules governing UK immigration favour more highly skilled applicants .." I added that the government had tried (unsuccessfully) to solve the problem of labour shortages in the Agricultural and Hospitality sectors by introducing a Seasonal Worker visa. Therefore - as I said previously - in the circumstances, imo there is nothing strange in a record level of net migration occuring simultaneously with labour shortages in certain sectors: However, it might be argued that this points to a failure of government policy.

Strange? Not really. The abolition of freedom of movement since the UK left the EU has made it more difficult and expensive for EU nationals to live and work in the UK. This has resulted in there being negative net migration from EU member states (actually this has been the case since the referendum result was announced). Many of the EU workers were employed in low-paid sectors such as Agriculture and Hospitality. As the new rules governing UK immigration favour more highly skilled applicants, there has been a large increase in this type of worker, most of whom come from non-EU countries. Whatever the merits of trying to attract more highly skilled immigrants, it does nothing to solve the shortage of labour in the aforementioned sectors. The government's attempts to attract overseas workers into the UK Agricultural and Hospitality sectors e.g. through the use of Seasonal Worker visa, have been unsuccessful. Hence, the UK is simultaneously suffering from labour shortages in certain sectors whilst overall net migration is at an all-time high. Good summary of the UK points based immigration system here: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48785695

Farage was leader of UKIP and their successor, the Brexit Party. Both parties had one policy re Brexit: Leave with 'No deal' and trade on WTO terms. How they proposed to deal with the UK's ongoing commitments to the EU post-Brexit was never made clear. However, tbf I guess that they would have argued that this would have been subject to negotiation, and that they did not want to reveal their hand.

What I saw from the link before I was rudely interrupted by an advert is that the baht is best performing Asian currency (over the past year?) Over the past year, it has underperformed slightly against the Euro. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/euro_reference_exchange_rates/html/eurofxref-graph-thb.en.html

Some countries have recovered more than others. And your point is?

We would, most likely, have to commit to joining the Euro. It is possible that this commitment would be "ongoing" (an overworked word in this thread).