Leaver

Over 2 years of covid, and even bar owners with youtube channels have talked about the scams and rip offs here to their audience. When tourists do come back in big numbers, I would think many of them would have gained some knowledge of the Soi Baukhao area, where, as you say, the same good times can be had for a lot cheaper price. It will be interesting to see if the market is prepared to pay the prices now being asked on Walking Street. I can't see it. LK Metro was taking customers away from Walking Street pre covid. "Walking Street" is a brand, but at those prices, I can't see the brand lasting too long, especially when there is genuine competition a short distance away for a lot cheaper.

He's been here many times before and knows how to play the game. He's not a lonely and desperate guy looking for company online, with a view to getting over here and marrying one. He's not using the apps like a dating site. Knowing him, he would be very direct. In effect, he's booking in the girl, so it's in her interests to respond, in order to secure a future customer.

Would you consider someone not willing to pay those prices, despite being able to afford them, a Cheap Charlie?

Hardly. I have empathy for bar owners here. As I have just posted, many are slaves to their Thai landlord, then add to that local police with tea money payments, then work permits etc, all within a legal system that does not look upon farang kindly, and I wish them all the best. Same question to you as the other member. What is the line in the sand for lady drink prices and bar fine prices for you? I used to pay 300 baht, no problem. Then it went to 500 baht, and I still paid it. Now it's over 500 baht, and the girl only wants 1000 baht and I don't see the point. Does that make me a Cheap Charlie? If I paid 800 baht but refused to pay a 1000 baht bar fine, would that be ok with you? What if / when all the bars start charging a 1000 baht fine, or 1200 baht, or 1500 baht. When would you give your approval that's it's ok not to pay it and go the freelance route? You've been here long enough, when's the last bar fine you paid? Be honest. As far as "tech savvy" have you never used AirBnb, Uber, Bolt etc? Why is it fine for you to seek out a cheaper price on these apps, but you feel compelled to give a 800 baht donation to a bar owner? Then, there's the Tinder app. Why is it ok to use that app in any other country, but you are a Cheap Charlie if you use it in Thailand? I have said many times in the past the bar girl scene here will be digitally disrupted. The only question is to what degree. I would not be surprised if in years to come all the girls in the bars will be freelancers, except for service staff, as bar owners try to make ends meet. I look after the girls I interact with well. Why should I look after a bar owner? You can personally attack me for meeting girls on apps, in the same way taxi industries and hotel industries all around the world attacked users of AirBnb and Uber in the early days, but eventually, these companies became mainstream, and are here to stay. I have a friend coming back to Pattaya soon. He's been away over covid. Spoke to him the other day. He's got a different girl lined up for every day of the first week he's here. He told me the one he likes the most in the first week, he'll be with for the whole of the second week. He's also enjoyed a chat and a laugh with them well before he even arrives. Question for you is, is he a Cheap Charlie?

I'll take that as a compliment. ???? So, what's an acceptable price for a lady drink and bar fine for you? Would you pay 200 baht for a lady drink? Would you pay 250 baht for a lady drink? Would you pay 1000 baht for a bar fine? Would you pay 1500 baht for the bar fine? It's not so much about affordability, but goes to lack of value. At what price would you stop buying lady drinks and paying bar fines? You can personally attack me, but as these prices rise, it knocks more customers out of the game. It's not because the bar owner is greedy. Many of them are just slaves to their Thai landlord, and these prices have to go up to cover their biggest expense, the rent. It's human nature to seek out better value. We joke at the Cheap Charlie title, but that Singha beer in one bar for 70 baht is the exact same Singha beer in another bar for 90 baht. It comes from the same factory. That only leaves the environment of the bar, and the staff, as the difference. Is the environment in one bar worth paying 28.5% more for the beer than in the other bar, if they have a similar location, facilities, and staff services? Or, is most of that extra 28.% going straight to a Thai landlord in the higher priced bar?

Wrong. As far as hospitality experience, I am a consumer, and catering to consumers is what "hospitality" is all about. You don't need a degree in hospitality management to know how to please customers. We all have a favorite bars, they are our favorite bars for a reason. Different bars appeal to different tastes, and that's fine, but some bar owners try to impart their own taste onto the customers, and expect the masses to like it, and not everyone will. Another cause of failure here is over capitalizing. Too big, too nice, too new, too shiny, and the higher pries that go with it. Expats / tourists are price conscious. Poor exchange rates play a part, as well as other external factors, but the free spending 2 week millionaires were not as plentiful as in the past, pre covid. Pre covid, bars were were being turned over to the next dreamer, only to be turned over again, or shut completely, 6 months later. Did these guys run a poor operation, or simply the pie had finally been cut into too many wedges? I think you will find I am more critical of of Thai landlords than individual bar owners. Thai landlords have pushed the market here to approach what the expat / tourist is not prepared to pay. Take your mind back to 2019, and bars and restaurants in Central Pattaya were struggling.

Yes, they have, and it will continue to gain in popularity. It's obvious you have no experience meeting girls online, and that's fine, but why criticize something you have no experience in? The money is the same, and as for time, how much time does it take going from bar to bar before you see a girl that you find attractive? I do it from a quiet bar near my place, over a drink. Soon after, the girl arrives, I buy her a drink, and we take it from there. Everything. ????

Time will tell, but for sure, online will have an impact on bar profits in the future. I disagree that meeting a girl online is for people who don't care about what they are getting, or it's for skint expats / tourists. The guy can message, request photos, then video call, then meet in a bar for drink. Well, that's the way I do it. I have had some great nights out, and in, with girls I have met online. A lot of the attractive girls have moved online. If that trend continues, even your young cashed up tech savvy guys will be moving online for better looking girls.

Reminds me of Phuket after the tsunami. The Thai locals were begging tourists to come back, and as soon as they did, they started scamming them again. They can't help themselves here. They would rather scam a baht than earn a baht.

Yes, shameful, isn't it? I'm sure when tourists have the same interaction with these Thai locals they will sing the praises of Thailand's tourism industry to friends, family, and the internet, but hey, it's all about the customer / tourist being unreasonable. ????

The younger and more tech savvy crowd will not be buying lady drinks and paying bar fines. Bars still catering to that out of date business model will struggle in the future.

And did you ask him why he was such a Cheap Charlie? ????

LINE is all about whatever you want it to be, same with other apps. I always tell the girl to meet me in a bar of my chosing. Sometimes, I haven't got back to my place with them until the early hours, such was the fun company. Drinks, dinner, dancing. No problem. ST or LT, and anything in between, is usually no problem, in my experience.

I would not be surprised if there are quite a few properties around Pattaya in a similar situation. Not only is it buyer beware, but current lease holders could be shut down by the bank, who is the real owner, until the debt has been discharged.

Yes, nothing is completely legal here. The Thai's make it this way so there is a corrupt baht to be made all the time.

Not only cover up, but victim blaming as well.

Which occurs just before the eternal sleep.

Some lite entertainment for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsPuoaktoAw

You got on your high horse and said, "speak for yourself." I was speaking very much in general, using the term "people." Not "me" and not "you." I stand by my comments that people only take an interest in a war, perhaps even an objection, when it effects themselves directly somehow, otherwise, they change the channel. For decades, there's usually several wars going on at any one given time in the world. PEOPLE have become desensitized to war.

The Russian will not be back for some time. Yes, there are some Japanese and Koreans. The Indians go for freelancers and do not come from a drinking culture. I agree the Lao numbers are workers, not tourists, so no spend from them. Sure, some Americans in the bars, but at 1.2 million, they only make up 3% of the total. So, where are all the big numbers going to come from for the bars, clubs and gogo's here?

You've picked up on a typo. That should be "many" not "any." Other than Americans, when's the last time you've sat next to a citizen from one of the other 9 countries in a bar or gogo? You see a few Japanese and Koreans, but not a lot. The top three, Chinese, Malaysians and Indians, make up 43% of the total. When's the last time you have sat next to a guy from one of these countries in a bar?

China at 11 million, and Russia at 1.5 million, will not be back anytime soon. 12.5 million out of 39.8 million represents 31.4% of Thailand's tourism market who will not be coming back for some time. Then, Thailand has to hope the other countries will be back to previous levels, reasonably quickly, to at least put get back to around the 70% mark. Interestingly, you don't see any of the the top 10 in the bars here. Little wonder the bars were struggling pre covid.

Some men are pedantic.

Difficult to decide against going into prostitution when your parents are pushing you towards it.

Thainess left Thailand long ago.