Leaver

What are you basing your opinion on?

Perhaps you should broaden your imagination.

I have recently spoken to a few friends, who are in various different countries. Most have said to me they will not be back in Pattaya this coming high season for a few reasons, mainly: 1) the covid situation is not stable in Thailand at the moment. (they are all fully vaccinated) 2) due to the covid situation not being stable they fear being locked out of their home country or locked into Thailand. 3) they are waiting for Pattaya to rebuild some nightlife. 4) they are waiting for the girls to return. On the basis of the above, I can't see much of a 2021 / 22 high season at all.

Out of interest, what did they charge for the job?

Would that be actions, or inactions? Take metered taxis, for example. Is it the action of government to take their cut from land transport extortion on tourists here, or the inaction of government not to enforce taxis use their meter? Either way, it doesn't work for the tourists, and they will not be back, and tell all their friends about Pattaya taxis, and then take to social media and tell the world.

Up 32.8%, pre covid, on the same time the previous year. https://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/statistic/international?txtkey=&year=2020&period=t1 I tend to agree. It's possible that Pattaya, mainly through greedy Thai landlords with high rents, has pushed the market prices past what the majority of people are prepared to pay, or can afford. As I have said in the past, when Pattaya / Thailand was cheap and nasty, tourists could look past the nasty because it was cheap. Now, it's not so cheap, but the nasty still remains, it no longer represents a value for money holiday. So what does Thailand do, pump up the numbers with zero baht Chinese tourists. Who knows were Pattaya / Thailand tourism will be 5 after covid, but I don't think it will look pretty.

I remember the girls in the bars there all dress very nice, like they are going to a function. Make-up, hair, nails, clothing, all immaculate, and no tattoos. Girly bars were all air conditioned, with brand name beer for around 40 baht. (that's not a misprint)

So, if they were still coming to Thailand, but not to Pattaya, where were they going? I agree the numbers were up, mainly on the back of cheap Chinese package holiday makers, otherwise known as "zero baht tourists" because that's pretty much what they are worth to Thailand, zero baht. No point having big tourist numbers if there is not big revenue to go with it. All it does is pressure the infrastructure and environment, whilst profits from such tourism is repatriated back to China. I have never seen many Asians in bars like Retox, for example, yet, have seen their crowds dwindle pre covid, and that's Pattaya's most popular sports bar. A perception issue, or an observation issue? Perhaps I need glasses. ???? I know what I saw, which was confirmed by several successful bar / restaurant owners here that cater for westerners. Numbers were down, particularly down in high season 2019. So bars / restaurants / hotels that have built up a good reputation and have a loyal customer base of returning tourists see a downturn because Pattaya has expanded and there are more options. Using the Retox example, what other sports bars did they go to? Nowhere else was busy with westerners, either.

I agree. Thailand will remain popular with zero baht tourists, whilst Vietnam picks up Thailand's lost western tourist market, those with real money to spend. That's not in the Thai's nature to build sustainable tourism. It's all about making a baht today, with no thought about tomorrow, or the environment. Correct. In any case, just look at some of the roads around here. Eg. Soi Pothole. Not to mention, you can't even walk on the sidewalks here, which does wonders for tourism. ???? Great, but neither Thailand, or Vietnam, is in direct competition with Dubai for tourism. Thailand is in competition with Vietnam, and from what I see, Vietnam is building it bigger and better than Thailand, who can't even build a level sidewalk for tourists, and is no long a "cheap" destination. Thailand just sits back and watches Vietnam keep taking the lucrative segment of their market.

Do you have Thai citizenship?

More like 2 night millionaires. ????

So decisions made by the Thai government on immigration will have no effect on you, ever, 100% guaranteed. ???????? Another boiling frog.

I never had a problem there, and enjoyed the place. Partied with a lot of the oil and gas guys as well.

Not about you effect on them, it's about their effect on you. Can you 100% guarantee that? ????

Probably should have disguised the drugs as dried fruit or dried seaweed. The Chinese were stuffing their suit cases full of these products at the airport. Maybe latex products as well.

I agree. Also, I think quite a few of them will be hoping to sell, as they would have had 2 years with no profits, and key money and a new lease is looming, which they probably can not afford, or don't want to dip into their savings, again, to pay for the bar. It will be interesting to see if the post covid pump and dump works.

Nationwide, Harry. Not just local. Here's just one short article of many on the internet. It would if you no longer could meet the visa criteria. I've been to Vung Tau a few times. I liked the place, I know how the nightlife operates there. Why did you leave? Nightlife is currently the main reason I reside in Pattaya. I doubt that will always be the case. Thanks, but South East Asia for a foreigner is more about due diligence than luck.

Care to comment on the western market? It's the market I am discussing. You know, the market that was once the dominant market here, and was dwindling the last few years, pre covid. How / why did Pattaya lose this market?

Say they raise the seed money from 800k baht to 1.5 million baht, or 65k to 90k a month, and do proper enforcement on the use of agents. How many expats does this knock out of Thailand? It maybe an annual event, but with a shift of government policy, many may not qualify to live here. Obviously, you did. Perhaps if you lived here full time and took an interest in Thai current affairs, you would know the natives were restless, pre covid, with some civil unrest also during covid. Should protestors start burning government buildings, again, and martial law is imposed for a lengthy period of time, I may move. You think the Thai government / police couldn't make it disappear, if they wanted to. Really? Many times. That's why it's my Plan B. Have you ever been to Vietnam?

You miss my point, newnative. Picture a young professional couple looking for a 2 week overseas holiday. Same with mum, dad, and the two kids. Or, the newly retired couple with time on their hands. They get on the internet, or go to see a travel agent, and compare facilities, attractions, and value for money. I won't mention Googling "scams Thailand" or similar, and all the negative reports that may influence their decision. The above are tourists with real money to spend, not like millions of zero baht Chinese tourists, although I do agree with you, the tourist numbers were up, on the back of cheap Chinese package holiday makers. 5 to 10 years from now, which country do you think will be more attractive to that above western market/s? As for roads, how many tourists use long distance land transport on a 2 week holiday here?

Visas is the main one. Hoops to jump through etc. Maybe making Pattaya / Thailand a family holiday destination, thus no adult nightlife in the future. Protests, violence, civil war etc, leading to martial law or similar. I am well aware that as a farang I do not have a "right" to live here. At any point in time the Thai government wants farang out of Thailand, they can do it, either slowly, or over 12 months.

When Pattaya / Thailand reaches its used by date for me, or there's a change in government policy which adds ridiculous hoops to keep staying here, or Pattaya becomes China Town, I'll jump. Until then, I like living in Pattaya, and look forward to seeing the nightlife return.

Sure, but establishments such as restaurants, nightclubs, live music venues etc were also quiet for mongers, pre covid. If they didn't come back to Pattaya pre covid, why would they come back to Pattaya post covid?

The benefits system in the UK is a generous one, which is often abused. Unfortunately, it's not so generous to those that actually fund it.

I was thinking more about 5 to 10 years, post covid. Vietnam has been building it bigger and better. What's Thailand been doing?