Sunmaster

Challenge accepted!

Absolutely spot on RP! Love it! This especially: It suggests that true understanding comes from intuition and direct experience rather than through language or concepts. And this core concept is not just a central point in eastern (exotic) philosophies/religions, but central in all spiritual paths, including Christian mysticism, Islam (Sufi) and Jewish Kabbalah. And this is also my main point of contention. There can be no true understanding without direct experience. Knowledge on an intellectual level should only be there to translate direct experience, not replace it. Because of that I always point to the importance of daily practice. Here I can reply to @Tippaporn's answer to my 3rd question. Petting your cats, meditating on questions (=thinking), focusing elsewhere to find answers....are not the same as meditating. They are excellent ways to strengthen your connection within and trust your intuition, but they are still in the realm of the mind and the thoughts it produces. Meditation is a process where you aim not to follow any specific thought, so that the silence behind the thoughts moves to the foreground of your awareness. It is in that silence that lies the truth. And while this practice is not just an eastern, exotic way to find truth, I think that Buddhism and Hinduism, having explored and refined it for 1000s of years, are experts in that field.

Great post Tippa. This gives me a lot of material. :-) I will divide and conquer like you taught me.

Yeah, but....

I don't have any particular loyalty towards a specific religion or philosophy. My only allegiance is towards truth, in whatever way I can find it. Whatever works, works for me. When I find 2 (seemingly) opposing truths, that tells me that there must be a "higher" truth that incorporates those 2 truths. So the next logical step is to transcend the confines of the 2 limited truths and find that truth which includes both. Take science and religion for example. Many people are stuck on one side or the other. The higher truth in this case can be called spirituality. It transcends and includes both points of view. That's the only reason I ask so many questions. I'm not satisfied with "agree to disagree ". I want to know where the disagreement comes from.

I'll answer this first. You must know by now that I thoroughly enjoy our conversations. I've told you many times. The lengthy replies don't bother me either as they are always interesting and well layed out. But yes, you're right. Answering them in only one post can be difficult and some points lose their strength among other points. While meditating this morning I had this image in my head. You like to poke the bears, and so do I. Well, not exactly this pic, but AI is a bit thick this morning. In my mind they were poking each other. Btw....not sure if you were joking about the 555? 5 in Thai is pronounced "ha". This is a common use to indicate laughter. Actually, I should have written "atheist trolls", not just atheists. Big difference. Mea culpa....

Yes, I do enjoy having a good sparring match of ideas. 😉

It's funny that you mention the "pissing contest", because that's where it seems to be heading to be honest. I don't subscribe to any one philosophy or teaching in particular, so I don't have to defend anything. I don't quote lengthy paragraphs of scriptures or famous books to make my points. My eggs are not all in one basket, so to speak. I have sifted through many different sources in the past 30 years with the sole intent of validating and organizing my own experiences and thoughts. Accepting a single source or map is a double edged sword. If the source is clear and has a proven track record of leading the seeker to the intended destination, then that's great. Hinduism and Buddhism have done that more than any other, I would argue. You can contest that there is no destination, that we are just perfect the way we are. But are we? Sorry, but I have limited time. What's the old saying, "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." Change that to, "The spirit is willing but the time is short." C'mon, this just seems like a cheap cop-out Tippa. Sounds like something our atheist friends would say. 555 My questions were: To summarize: 1. The ego is the very "thing" that prevents opening up to a wider reality, because its very job is to concentrate your attention on a small part of reality. 2. Does Free Will exist? Yes and no. It apparently exists within a paradigm bound by time and space, but since we know that this reality is only one reality within a bigger reality that is not bound by those restrictions, free will becomes just another illusion. In short, free will appears to be real when we look at it from inside the dream (this reality as seen from the ego perspective), but once you wake up, it disappears along with the dream. 3. A personal question. Do you practice any kind of meditation or have other ways to find the silence behind the thoughts? If yes, what happens when your thoughts quiet down? As you know, Eastern philosophies put first-hand experience through regular daily practice above all else. Intellectual knowledge, even the sharpest and most compelling, is nothing if not combined with direct experience. The analogy of the donkey carrying a load of sugar, but never tasting it, is perfect here. I know because after studying for 30 years, all it did for me was to fill my head with lots of concepts, but it didn't lead me one step closer to uncovering that which lies behind my ignorance. It made me look smart in the eyes of some, and a smartass evangelist in the eyes of others. And they were right (the second group). I can say that now, but I couldn't admit that to myself before. That's why nobody likes bible thumpers. They like to speak from a pulpit, but they have not earned the right to stand on one. Why? Because the source of their knowledge is secondhand knowledge from a book, not their own experience. How do we know? By the simple fact that they try to convince others of the veracity of their words. Had they first-hand knowledge, then there would be no need to convince others. Others would naturally be attracted to them and understand the truth of their words. The very framework of the statement implies a progression which Seth is explaining doesn't exist. It implies that we are working towards becoming a realized being. And a 'realized being; implies a more advanced being just as an 'unrealized being' implies less advanced. But what is a 'realized being'? An identity which is aware that it is part of a greater identity, of which it already is? It appears to me that you think that the Sunmaster identity needs to be it's greater identity. Yet your Sunmaster identity is that already. There's no becoming it in that sense. You already are it. I've talked about this before. Knowing on an intellectual level that "you are already it" is not the same as being it, living it from that perspective. Can you say you are enlightened right now? Can you say you can see what the Entity (in Sethian terms) is seeing? Probably not. Yes, you stepped back and are looking at the "thing" from a distance (as opposed to pressing your nose against it), and that's a great step forward. A progression, a development, a new level of understanding. And yet, looking at that thing is not the same as BEING that thing. Because what else is it other than YOU? You see? I'm not content with simply looking at it and describing it to others. I strive to BE IT. I see nothing else more worthwhile and precious than that. I would offer all my intellectual knowledge I collected in these past 30 years and burn it on a bonfire, in exchange for a second of BEING that thing. Would it help to meditate in a cave? It probably would help, yes. It's not my path though. I have responsibilities that I have to honor. But who knows, maybe there is a cave somewhere waiting for me...in this life or in another. So no, there is no pissing contest, because I have nothing to present to you other than what I know to be true in my heart, and that doesn't come from any book, philosophy, religion or guru. Too serious?

My true identity has nothing to aspire to. Can I, in my present limited awareness, say I'm consciously aware of being that true identity yet. No. Do I, in my present limited awareness, aspire to be aware of it? Yes.

Sure, talking about levels is always tricky because they depend on the observing point of view. We are talking from the point of view of not (yet) realized beings. We may know about the entity we belong to, we may know that our true identity is infinite, eternal consciousness, but we don't live it. We are not Buddha, nor Seth. There are lower aspects to our being? Yes, from a purely practical point of view. Do you think getting drunk and spending your time chasing tails does anything beneficial when your aim is to explore your inner world? Certainly not. They are a hindrance. They fulfill lower needs and keep the waters muddy. Some realities are more important than others? In itself, no. They are not more important. They are more important to me and the life I want to live. Is my life (reality) more important than the life (reality) of a beggar, a degenerate, a thief? Definitely not. Like you say (Seth says), it's just the way consciousness chose to express itself. However, the way I choose to express my reality is more important to me than the way others express theirs. What happened to "time doesn't exist" and eternity? Only some things enjoy eternal existence? Not sure what you're trying to do here and why the need to add the smiling emojis. Life in the material world is subject to time. There are other levels of existence that are not (as) bound by time. That includes Seth. "Things" don't enjoy eternal existence. Does your body enjoy eternal existence? Your car? Your house? The idea that there are progressive states, the idea that one is more important than another . . . those ideas "are based upon your idea of one-personhood, consecutive time, and limited versions of the soul." You dispute my use of "levels" and hierarchies, yet in Seth's quote he mentions development. Development can only happen within a time-constricted reality. "Today I'm like this, tomorrow I will develop into something different." What happened? Aren't we all already enlightened, perfect expressions of the One? If today my awareness is limited and tomorrow it has less limitations, then there is progress, there is development, there is a hierarchy, there are levels of understanding. Of course my ideas are based on my limited perception of reality, which is still bound by consecutive time. So are yours and most other people's. But not all. Now I guarantee you that no eastern religion has traveled that far into consciousness to be able to elucidate on the existence of consciousness units. I say that because if they had they'd have written or talked about it. Perhaps I'm in error but I doubt it. Sorry, but I think that's just your own bias talking. How deep have you studied or practiced Eastern philosophies to make that statement? Or is it just your belief? They may not have used the term "consciousness units", but they do say that consciousness is the ultimate reality. Sat Chid Ananda (existence, consciousness, and bliss). This is why I asked you the two questions 10 days ago. Your answers would be revealing as they would expose your beliefs since you would naturally need to express them in order to answer the questions. I'm a tricky son-of-a-b!tch, so my sincere apologies. I think I answered all your questions, but I'm still waiting for you to answer all of mine. ;-)

The first part just means not to become a slave of the body's demands for temporary pleasures. Indulging in excessive food, drink, sex only satisfies the lowest aspects of our being and tend to distract from the more important ones. This is not to say that we all have to live like renunciates or monks in a cave, but warns from focusing too much on the body, which is just a temporary vessel. Therefore, "treacherous friend", love your friend, but not at the expense of your own wellbeing. When your friend demands more from you than you can (or should) give, then he's not your friend anymore.

This just came up in my feed.... https://youtu.be/HHmo21q-5jw?si=6PNZ0usQr5z7INMJ

@TippapornThis is a quote from the teacher guru of Paramhansa Yogananda. This is just to show that the power of thoughts and beliefs was already recognised and used from time immemorial, and explained in no uncertain terms. How else could it be? When you explore the inner worlds as thoroughly as the Hindus did, it's inevitable that they would discover this. Any yogi will see this fairly soon on the journey. Seth's contribution was to bring this knowledge to a modern (Western) audience who had no idea about any of it. Just emphasising the common ground of both philosophies. 😉

How did you come to this conclusion?

The idea is interesting and would make for a nice sci-fi movie. Humans create a machine to escape the known universe from its impending annihilation, only to re-emerge in a brand-new universe. A couple of problems though...the new universe will only have base elements and gases for a few trillion (?) years before planets are formed. Or will they create a time machine that sends them to a universe that is already fit for human life? Or will they create a machine that sends them to a parallel universe? If nothing material will survive the annihilation, the only way would be to create a machine that transforms us into immaterial thought patterns or a sort of cohesive thought-essence...which then would become immortal. Sounds a bit like a soul to me. 55 It's ok to put a lot of faith in science, but this seems all a bit too farfetched, even for a sci-fi lover like me. :-) Buddhism and Hinduism propose a much simpler and practical "escape". A solution that can be implemented by everyone, at any time. One that has nothing to do with science and man-made machines, but revolves around the idea that everything in the universe is consciousness. Consciousness can not be destroyed or killed. It is the building block of all there is. It was there before the "Big Bang" and will be there after the universe implodes (that remains to be seen). It is outside of time, so even talking about before/after makes little sense. The "escape" consists in realizing your true nature by going within. To follow your own consciousness to the root of all consciousness, thus making the circle of physical birth and death redundant. Being reborn again and again is only necessary as long as there is ignorance regarding your true identity. And once you know that identity, whether the material universe gets annihilated or not, becomes irrelevant.

Yes, I painted it. It's in a small A5 sketchbook, so I decided to use both pages to get the feeling of immensity and wonder before the boy's eyes. I thought of TBL because he often mentioned how he sees God's work whenever he looks at a sunset.

Agree Expand You are not religious, you don't believe in any God or even in the concept of a God, and you feel threatened by those who do. This thread was a means to push back. To me it seems quite obvious why he started this thread. He says it in the opening post and again in his love letter to swissie. He craves attention, as simple as that. He says his posts don't get the attention he would like to or think they deserve, and was wondering why the God-threads get so many replies. So, his next step is to start a new topic with the word "God" in it and voila', the replies are raining down. That's all that matters to him. Not the topic itself. He has not made one ounce of effort to reply to your posts and engage in a constructive discussion on the topic, because that was not the point in the first place. And for this reason, this thread is completely worthless. It's only of value to GG to mask his lack of self-esteem with likes and vacuous replies.

Love this! So absolutely spot on and applicable to learning and personal development in general.

You sure got it all figured out 555

This one is for you @thaibeachlovers

"God" as I see it, is All There Is, within and with-out, so in that sense there is no contradiction. TBL has his own view of course, but that's no problem. Different approaches to the same thing. My approach is based on direct experience through the help of meditation and self-inquiry. Swami Sarvapriyananda, a monk I deeply respect, gave this analogy: spiritual knowledge without direct experience is like a donkey carrying a load of sugar on its back. It has the precious load so close to it, but never gets to taste its sweetness.

All good. No need to start from the beginning, unless you are in prison and have nothing better to do. If the topic interests you and you come at it with an open mind, then you are welcome to contribute of course. We don't have to be of the same opinion, that would be boring. But a respectful attitude goes a long way. 🖖

Of course I'm referring to you and those like you. Like BigStar, who comes to drop a link to a book but can't be bothered to elaborate his point. You come here, guns blazing, talking about "your God this, your God that", assuming that everyone here subscribes to the idea of a Christian God. None of us do. None of us are religious in the sense you talk about. So where does that leave us? Perhaps read some of the previous pages to get an idea, but like many other people with your attitude you will say "I don't have time for this nonsense" and will retreat with a feeling of false superiority. Seen it all before. Hence my comment.

Yep. Not worth replying to.

This is a very large topic and I don't think that it's possible to condense it into a short post. The major problem with evidence is that those who ask for it, expect "scientific evidence" and accept only that as the only real evidence. This they will never get, no matter how long or hard they demand it. So, should they just believe what they are told about "God"? Of course not! How then can they find proof that there is indeed something more to life than what you can explore through science? For one, they have to be openminded enough to consider that there are other ways of verification. Use the right tool for the right job: science for the material, objective world; introspection, meditation for the inner, subjective world. There's no other way, I'm afraid. Now, if you are curious enough and willing to take those steps, you will be all set to get that evidence yourself, without ever having to read, listen or believe anything someone else wrote or told you about your inner experience. You will be the scientist and you alone will verify your findings. "God" is not something or someone outside of you. It is your innate nature. It is closer to you than your own breath is to you.