MeePeeMai

I agree 100%. I left Thailand on June 16th after 7+ years and I will NEVER set myself up for full time retirement again in Thailand. They could cancel both of these tax traps (the tax on Remittances and the proposed Global Tax tax residency) and back peddle saying: don't worry / don't leave etc..... but my dreams of living in Thailand full time have been permanently shattered. I will live and spend my money elsewhere (on principle if for no other reason).

I agree, 800k in the bank method and on a 12 month Non-O extension will require a 12 month bank statement starting from the day you received your last extension to the day you will get your new extension (in Udon Thani at least). They DO go over it with a fine tooth comb checking the balances / deposits and withdrawals to make sure you are in compliance. If he's in not in compliance then I agree, he will have a problem in Dec. when he applies for his next 12 month extension and might either need the help of an agent... or might need to exit Thailand, re-enter on a visa exempt to start the Non-O process all over again.

I was thinking the same thing. If so, the OP needs to be pointed to the thread addressing this issue for US citizens.

Agents are not available in some areas (Chiang Khan / Loei for example). I tried desperately to find one at that time.

It lasted 16 years, the longest of my three marriages (my Thai wife only lasted about 3 years). Now I'm a happy single man once again (and I will stay that way from now on). Now back on topic (sorry MODs)

I believe this is EXACTLY what the problem was for me. I think these types assume that the foreigner will just eventually give up, or give in (at which time the rogue IO chalks it up as another "win"). I just hate dealing with this type of nonsense. Same type of thing happened to me in East Jawa in Indonesia 25 years ago when navigating my way through getting married (with an Indonesian woman)... the arrogant xenophobic chief or boss at the Kantor Urusan Agama (Govt. office to get your marriage registered and legalized) put up every roadblock he could think of to try to prevent me (a "Bule" pronounced bu-lei , which is the equivalent of the Thai word farang) from being able to get married (legally) because he hated foreigners and despised any Indonesian/foreigner marriage or family. I finally had about 30 very angry family members show up at his office (after numerous failed attempts to get him to do his job properly), and they had to threaten to cause huge problems for him (with the main office/his boss in Jakarta) if he didn't allow us to get married. He finally gave in but he still dragged his feet and it took months for him to finally produce our marriage book (legal proof of marriage) which should have taken less than a week. Then he proceeded to lecture my wife and I (on reasons why we shouldn't go through with it) for an hour or so before he finally gave us our marriage books (with a severe look of disdain and pain in his face). He died (in his office) of a heart attack a few months later. Anyway, getting a little off topic here but I appreciate the help, input and clarification from all in this TM30 thread.

Wow, snakebit or what? I would call taking care of a woman's entire family and raising their standard of living being "kind" or showing "kindness". I'm sorry that you disagree but in the USA (for example), taking care of your wife's entire family is extremely rare and probably never done nowadays. I never said I wanted to be remembered for anything and I certainly am no narcissist. I don't even have a wife myself. Relax, take a chill pill Junior!

I believe you and yes, I considered going this route a few times (out of frustration) but this is a line I have never crossed, mostly because of the possibility of retaliation and the fact that I will have to visit this IO again and probably have to deal with the same IO again after the fact. It's something I wouldn't want to do unless it was an absolute last resort (so to speak). Sad that it has to come to that though. I just want uniformity, consistency and clarity from the "law enforcement" officials but I guess that is just asking or expecting too much here.

Some "foreigners" own their own condo or apt (or house) and can therefore complete the TM 30 for themselves and their foreign guests (as a foreigner Housemaster/possessor etc.) The way the Immigration Officer explained this one to me is that this person (tenant or possessor) would be a close family member or friend of the Thai owner who is in charge of, or managing the house/apt for the owner while they are away (or unavailable due to working overseas / on an extended vacation or trip / ill and unable to complete the TM30 on their own merit). That's what she told me.

My point was that if you rent a house or apt. from a Thai person (not your wife / not a usufruct / not your house or your wife's house etc.), pay the deposit / sign the lease / pay the 1st months rent and go to Immigration to do your address change notification, they will ask you for a TM30. As a "tenant" in a rental (house/apt not belonging to you, your wife or your family member, not a usufruct etc.), one cannot get the TM30 done if the landlord does not comply and give you a signed copy of his/her Thai ID card, signed copy of his/her Tabian Ban, and sign the TM30 form (or do it online). YES, you can walk into your Immigration Office and hand carry the signed lease agreement, signed TM30 form, signed copy of your landlords ID card and signed copy of your landlord's Tabian Ban (with his/her phone number on it somewhere) but I don't call this doing the TM30 yourself. I call this just delivering the paperwork from your landlord to your local IO. If your new landlord refuses to give you a signed copy of his/her ID card and/or a signed copy of his/her Tabian Ban and or refuses to sign the form or do the TM30 online then you cannot accomplish the TM30 without the items mentioned above. You can go to immigration and cry and complain that your landlord won't do it but they will have no sympathy and will not look the other way and just plug one in for you in the system (nor will they accept a donation to help see it through). This has been my experience in the last 7 years at 2 different Immigration office in two separate cities on numerous occasions and dealing with numerous different Immigration Officers in those offices.

True, but no acknowledgement or credit is ever given from the Thai authorities for this act of kindness.

Sounds like you stay out late. I usually go home before about 9 or 10pm and never see the cops checking anything unless there is a problem such as a fight or an accident or a crazy yaba head harassing the customers etc. Though I have definitely seen underage girls working in the bars, I have never seen a "spot check" for underage girls, underage patrons in the bar or the police checking business licenses. I lived in Udon for more than 5 years.

"Some sensible comment from some Thai official or other" .... simply does not translate into "the rules have officially changed and are now being enforced as such at all Immigration offices".

As a renter or tenant of a house, apt or hotel, (one which YOU or your wife do not own), one CANNOT do his own TM30. Impossible to accomplish. Signed copy of Tabian Ban and signed copy of ID card (of Tabian Ban / house or apt owner) must be submitted along with a signed (by same person) TM30 form. This is common knowledge/rule among all Immigration offices. If you are the owner of your own house or condo then yes of course, you can do your own TM30 because you are the owner and you have the Tabian Ban or yellow book or whatever. If you are the owner then yes, it is your responsibility to complete a TM30 for foreign guests staying at your house/condo. If you did your own TM30 as a House Master or Possessor or TENANT (of a RENTAL you stayed in) then please enlighten me on just how you accomplished this feat. And just how would one do his own TM30 if staying at a hotel in which he is the occupier or possessor or TENANT of? Impossible. Thanks in advance for the info. I know exactly what it says and I had a copy of it (in Thai) highlighted in yellow and provided it to the IO. 555 Have you ever tried handing an IO a copy of this law in Thai and asked her to read it? You must be joking! I pointed it out to her and showed her where it says "TENANT" and she stated that means a family member of the owner who has control or is managing the house/apt for the owner (who is away). She proclaimed that TENANT does not mean a foreigner with a lease or rental agreement. Like I said above: This is a fact!

I have never seen the police in Udon check on any bar (except during Covid lockdowns). My guess is that a jealous nearby bar owner dropped a dime on them because they had so much business and so many customers (trying to eliminate the competition). Probably had to make numerous calls just to get any kind of response. Many bars and massage parlors in Udon don't have business licenses and get away with it but selling underage girls will eventually get them in hot water.

in the bustling Sampanmitr area. Sounds like soi sampan to me.

A small initial (or monthly) donation would likely ensure that the proceeds will not be taken from him.

5 year driving license (after the initial 2 years) same as Non-O? .... Or max 2 year license same as Elite Visa?

P.S. When I brought this up to the IO, she told me that the "Housemaster or possessor" as it's called, is referring only to a family member or relative of the owner who is taking care of or in charge of the home (wife of / mother of the owner etc). It is NOT a foreigner residing there as a renter/tenant. Whether this is true or not I don't know but like everything else in Thailand, it is up to the interpretation of the uniformed govt. official you are dealing with at that particular time.

I realize this but as the "Housemaster" (or tenant in a rental), you simply CANNOT file your TM30 on your own. It is virtually impossible and Immigration told me so. I asked Immigration to call my landlord and explain it to him and she scoffed at me and said no, just show him the printout from the website (in Thai) which I had in my hand at the time. The TM30 must be completed by the Landlord which means I could print out the form and have him sign it (if he agreed), but it would not be accepted without a signed (blue ink) copy of his Thai ID Card and a signed (blue ink) copy of his Tabian Ban (which he refused to give me). I had already paid the rent and deposit for that place and it turned into an ongoing battle/nightmare. I told the IO that I was willing to just pay the fine(s) for not having one and she said NO. Get the TM30 done or maybe you should just move to another house and try again with the new landlord. She was not help at all. You make it sound so easy but it can be a nightmare if your landlord is unwilling (out of fear for the RD wanting tax money from him is what my Thai wife told me at the time).

I was one of those here on an O-A extension at that time and I was very negatively affected as I was one of the "fools" who believed that all I needed to do was fill out the form to prove I had health insurance from my home country which met or exceeded the requirements and covered me here in Thailand... so I wasted a lot of time, energy and money trying to accomplish this impossible task (to no avail). Hence, I had to exit Thailand and re-enter on a visa exempt and start the process all over to get a new 90 day Non Imm -O visa and 12 month extension. Just another bad memory for me jumping through unnecessary hoops while trying to live a peaceful easy retirement life here in Thailand. I have lots of horror stories for example, dealing with an impossible rogue IO in the province I used to live (she was the reason I moved to Udon at that time), TM30 nightmares, Covid misery and I could go on and on but I won't. It just gets old and I think there is definitely a motive behind all the madness we must navigate while living in Thailand.

This is the typical Thai BS I've been complaining about for years. Immigration wanted a TM30 from my landlord ... my landlord refused/did not know how to do one. Immigration said it was MY responsibility (though I could not do one for myself as I was living in a rented home). Immigration said I would be fined for not having one... I went back and forth from Loei city to Chang Khan trying to accomplish this feat. But when I read the Thai law on the TM30 (reporting of a foreigners stay) it clearly puts the sole responsibility on the landlord (not the foreigner) and it is the landlord that could be fined for not reporting the foreigners stay. But in typical Thai fashion, the burden is placed on the foreigner or "guest" and the Thai citizens bear no responsibility whatsoever. Hotels are required to submit TM30's for foreigners staying on their property, yet there is no penalty or enforcement if they don't file one. But go to do a 90 report or get your annual extension and you "don't have a TM30 on file, then you are the guilty party. Brings back bad memories for me just dealing will this one simple aspect of living there as a retiree.

So what happened to his "attacker"? Let's hope he rots in a Thai prison for the rest of his days!

I just hate living in a place (as an unwelcome foreign visitor/guest), constantly trying to keep up with all the latest changes (and proposed changes) to both the Thai Immigration and RD policies (along with banking / driving license / residence certificates for purchasing a vehicle etc. etc. etc.). Not keeping abreast of all the new rules and regulations or the new requirements for us as foreigners can lead to much bigger problems and as an aging retiree, it's not something I relish (especially as I get much older). I'm back in the USA (Hawaii) now and it's a wonderful feeling just to know that I don't need to worry about 90 day reports, accessible income requirements or changes , Thai Taxes, remittances or even the latest global tax proposition. It's like a breath of fresh air, I can move anywhere I want and I don't have to notify anybody or make sure my "landlord" files the required TM30 (so I don't get fined or have problems). I just got tired of all the BS I had to endure just to be a "Short term" Non Immigrant retiree in Thailand. I will return to Thailand (as I still have over 1,000,000 baht in my bank account/rented apartment/vehicle and motorcycles) but I will only stay for less than 180 days per year regardless of whether or not they ditch this new global tax trap. ... and if they increase the 800,000 baht in the bank requirement (earning practically nothing in interest), and/or require me to purchase additional health insurance plan then they win. I will throw in the towel for good, have a fire sale and say goodbye and good riddance forever. It's just not worth the headache for me there anymore. The writing is on the wall, the red flags are waving and the govt. bureaucracy and red tape is just too much. Freedom from unnecessary BS is my main priority now. I am hoping for the best (long term) and I feel for everyone still living there especially those with families and those who purchased properties there. Like others have said, Good Luck to us ALL!

Just being proactive in training all the IO's how to look for and spot a "Thai Tax Resident" 5555