Polarizing

@Crossy @Metropolitian
Some of the cables in the tube with white cables are indeed 1.5, very sharp of you.
What should I do with it? I guess to replace them would be too much of a hassle...
From my understanding, if a cable is thinner, there can go less amp through there? 

I decided it might be a better idea to put the led adaptor not with the outlet and switch as it would be too cramped and I want to save space to leave the niche/ledge as wide as possible. So I want to install led strips under my bed and in the back of the niche, which will be connected with one of the switches.
I am not familiar with led strips wiring, how many wires and what kind should I leave in the white wire tube for this to work? This involves soldering right? As it will go from switch -> long wire to adaptor under the bed-> led strips-> wire to the niche-> led strips

Is this understandable? if not I will take more effort into drawing it out. Thankss

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Nothing at all wrong with the metro-method, it should actually be wired like that now ????

 

If you can find a ground to hook up to you can do that too, where does that green wire in the tubes go (is it even ground)?

 

the collored wire tubes are going to the right circle, remember the "neutral ground reversed" thread? Yeah that outlet

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

Ignoring the no-earth and outlet polarity issues for now do the switches work as it is now?

 

If so mark the switch wires individually, take a photo. Disconnect the switch wires and pull them up the tubes. Re mark the wires before you shorten them. Cut and strip and put the wires back in the same holes on the switches.

 

How are you going to get the back box into the wall, cut it to go around the conduit?

 

EDIT Does one of the switches control the outlet? If so you're going to need a longer link wire, but the principle remains unchanged.

Well actually I was trying to cross some crossy rules regarding backboxes, but you detected, haha. I planned to put the switches on the left side of the niche/ledge, where I created a 8 shape out of those wood beams and just screw it on there. Having a backbox there would limit me so much since I plan to jam in a led adaptor too. Too dangerous? Let me know.

Everything works it is now. The method you mentioned is ofcourse the foolproof one, but it does not solve the no ground issue. Or, would you only steal the ground. Is there anything negative about the method metropolian and I discussed?

 

18 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I will try it out soooooooon :D:D

8 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

 

 

 

Just to be sure, there was a reason there are two tubes coming down from the ceiling.. ????

the reason was, the previous owner was not a fan of breaking into walls, so he or his sparky pulled it from somewhere and built builtin furniture around it. When I moved in, i removed the builtin furniture and jammed that tube in the wall without a detailed plan of how I am going to finish it. As time progresses, my plans became more clear haha

4 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

 

 

The steps are:

1. With the switches in 'off' position ; first measure which one of the white wire is the 'hot wire' and mark it.

   - If it is the one with the many black tape, then we know that that one was supposed to be the blue wire (in your case blue, in proper case it's brown or red). and also means that at the light points the fittings are neutral and switched-live.

2. pull the wiring out the new hole if you giving up the holes beneath, are you?

3. Forget the neutral in the left pipe just leave it here for future 'smart switch'

4. At the location of the hole use the wiring from the right pipe for the outlet. (Get a wall plate for both switches and power outlet.

 

For the right wire, to be sure about the wiring:

1. Measure between the blue and white = 220v

2. Measure between the green and blue = 220v

3. Measure between the green and white = 0v

4. Disconnect the neutral bar from the main switch (this turns off everything in home so do during the day and in the right order: mains off. disconnect. mains on)

5. Measure between the  green and blue = 220v

 

If step 5 is true, then the wiring at the outlet is ok and green is really the earth wire.

Thanks for trying to understand my abstract artwork! this kind of answer was exactly what i was looking for!

-1 There should be at least 2 hot wires right? 1 for each of the lights? In which hole should I put it then? I never wired lighting before and do not fully understand that point.

-2. yes giving up the holes beneath
-3 Everything is on the same breaker, does this mean I can replace my old switch with a smart switch?

15 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

It looks like it is.. or it's an effect of angle/fisheye from the camera ????

 

 

How can I check it? 

8 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Then I have to forget about the coloring in the CU. We can't rely on the wiring system, and coloring, in the CU and this situation outside.

Four white wires going to the unearthed socket and switches, one of them being neutral and one live and two switched live (or neutral..).

 

There must be a tap in the ceiling/wall where the blue wire became white.

Now I can't be sure that the switches are switching live OR the neutral wire.

 

And who can tell, that the 'wrong' socket is indeed wrong, maybe it is good but somewhere in the line the color of the wire changed.

 

With good testing and marking we can be sure.

Photos are getting useless now, unfortunately.

As far as I can tell, i see no thinnier wire here. All same sized. We don't know which wire exactly is.

The switch and the outlet from the upper picture comes from the left circle.
All 4 wires are pulled somewhere from the ceiling, since thais don't match colors they became all white, no surprise here.

I have testing gear, but what I am more interested in a step by step plan than to actually test it, because I drilled into a wire somewhere else in my condo and I did not fix that yet (same breaker switch).

and we dont know if the wrong socket is really wrong or not for now, but I know how to confirm that.

I actually think that this picture might confuse people even more haha...
 

2 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

I think it could be interpreted as:  For future installation of a smart switch, there need to be a neutral wire present.

 

Most switches only has the live wire. One hot live wire coming from the CU and one switched live wire going to the lightpoint. At the light point there is neutral.

 

Okay what im saying is that I have at least two neutrals there. One in the tube with collored wires, one in the white wire tube.

3 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

No idea what you want to achieve.  You mention no ground and wanting to do something instead?  NO.  Ground is ground. There is no such thing as an "extra neutral".  There is no such thing as a "smart switch" using such.  

 

What is it that you want to do?  "Moving the outlets and switches to the tubes" is not enough information.

if you click on the link I provided you can see that in the socket there is no ground connected, the picture that steven posted does not show the whole picture. How do we solve that. Well in the picture with the two tubes where I made the two openings, you can  see that theres a tube with colored wires in it. We can just use those three wires to make the outlet.

So when we disconnect the outlet from the white wires,  there are some wires that are left over (If its a neutral, I would think that I can use it for a smart switch)

I just want to move the outlet and the switch to where I made the tube openings...

Hi TV again!

https://imgur.com/gallery/BpfBrHb

I want to move the outlet and the two switches to the tubes where I created the hole. The left tube with 4 white wires is leading to the outlet and the switches CURRENTLY, however since there is no ground wire in the socket I am thinking of connecting the right tube's collored wires with the socket (this one is leading to the socket that was wrongly wired that I posted yesterday).

The challenge for me would be to determine how to wire the switch, can someone guide me with this? And since I will be using the colored wires, does this mean I have an extra neutral which I can use for a smart switch if i wish to do so?

-All of these wires are on the same switch in the breakerbox. 

Thanks!!

14 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

These copies (Wago is brand name) are very reasonable price now (a newer version is available) and make a much better connection and are just about foolproof.  

 

 

Do you know what these 3 conductors (3 holes) are used for? Do I need them and if so, I want to read more about them. Where can I do so?
Or do I only need the the two holed version? 

10 hours ago, Metropolitian said:

First I have checked your CU, a split unit that is.

The wiring is very neat, only the coloring... well.. not according the standard but we will leave it at that.

The installers even used a nice coloring ring at the mains input.  In your location Blue is hot and high as the sky and White is the neutral, Green is the right one and is Earth.

One thing about the wiring in your CU, I do see -one- brown wire, it is used in your case as neutral wire, do you know where it goes? Has it a right 'marking' at the end point? (white tape or marking 'N' )

 

Now your outlet.  If the green wire is connected to the N and white is connected to the earth symbol. Then yes, according to the setup in your CU, this outlet is wrongly, not badly, connected. I can wildly assume that this socket is on the 'unprotected' side of the CU. If this socket was on the RCBO protected side, then it would trip as there would then be imbalance between the L and N at the RCBO.

 

Have you checked other outlets and their wiring?

Thanks for the summary, I have no idea about the brown wire, wild guess would be a newly installed neutral from a smart switch, but I don't think so actually since the installer of that neutral doesn't look like he had a brown wire. Does it matter much?

I need to check other outlets and their wiring ofcourse, but can only do so after I know how to do this one. Most outlets are connected with white wire so I will get it checked by removing the neutral from the busbar and test the voltage from the outlets.

2 hours ago, jojothai said:

Note: i have seen wiring in distribution boards that has some localised connections by winding wires together and tape. If you see any around the board like that i would change them for a proper plastic connector.

you mean wire nuts right. Yes, every connection in my home is done the tape way and im about to replace it all, but I don't know the size to buy for wirenuts haha

Quote

Even being careful i still realised how dangerous it is going into the board. You have to be very disciplined and methodical. 

 

@jojothai I mean what did you realise specificly when u went into the board? I mean if I am going to turn off the main power and touch everything with a neon first, I should be okay right?

9 minutes ago, jojothai said:

My wiring is fairly complex. The electrician managed to do it very well. He still got one part reversed.

I did similar to what bankruat steve says to check and then corrected the mistake.

Even being careful i still realised how dangerous it is going into the board. You have to be very disciplined and methodical.

 I also noted a few other things that needed improving. When you do get the check done. I suggest check all the connections are good. Some of mine were loose.

What were the specific challenges u faced?

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

OK a split supply CU, right hand side is RCD protected, left is not. Two neutral bars with white wires. Ground bar with all the greens on the left.

 

Is the outlet in question on the left or right set of MCBs? 

Are all the outlets wired like that?

 

outlet in question is on the left side, its number two, if im not mistaken.
I don't know if all my outlets are wired like that since they connect it to white wires, some connections are hidden behind builtin furniture. because you know.. haha tit. 

By the way I bought a very cheap, around 130 thb multimeter at tesco lotus before, which I regretted (because i thought it might not be safe) and never used. You think its safe to use or just throw it away hahaha

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Never assume anything when it comes to Thai wiring colours.

 

You need to have a look in your distribution board to verify if the green wire really is connected to ground and the white really is connected to neutral.

 

Post a photo of the board with the lid off (care please) if you're not sure what you are looking for.

 

haha thanks crossy you never ever disappoint me. 
https://imgur.com/gallery/QH6QENc

and CU is the same as the board what crossy is saying right

Hello TV!

I have just opened up a socket and found out that the the green wire is connected to N and the white wire is connected to the Earth symbol. Blue is in L, everywhere in my home blue is the live wire.
Am I safe to assume neutral and ground are reversed? Or should I do some additional tests?

Thanks!

https://imgur.com/gallery/i8j8pic
 

@Crossy i am at thaiwatsadu right now and they dont have 40a of the siemens breaker, they do have one of 40a haco. Which one is correct for my purpose. I put a vid and a picture in the link above.

someone can check for me please?:))

12 hours ago, Crossy said:

It's DIN mount, so if you can't get the Siemens unit (which it seems is now out of production) you could substitute another manufacturer with the same mount (ABB, Chang, Haco and others).

 

The sizes are supposed to be "standard" but the height of the connector tunnel (where the wire goes) varies and since you have a bus bar (solid inter-unit connection) you need this dimension to be reasonably close.

 

Best bet would be to pop out one of the existing units and visit one if the big DIY places. I find our local HomePro has the best range of electrical stuff but we also have a specialist electrical place nearby who can order in from any of the major manufacturers. 

 

Shouldn't cost more then a couple of hundred Baht.

 

 

so I should look for 1P, 40A, 230/400V AC, 6kA@230, din mount. Or maybe can you point me to the right one here? https://www.homepro.co.th/search?q=breaker I would probably end up asking a staff and they like to confuse themselves if I use english... XD

How to pop a breaker out? Safe to do so if the main is off right?

12 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yes, please turn off the main breaker first.

 

But be aware that there are still live bits inside (they should be finger proof, but TiT).

 

EDIT Poking around in the Siemens catalogue, you need breaker type 5SJ6140-7SC, it's a DIN mount breaker so other manufacturer's units should fit but it's always best to go with a single type.

Any idea where to look for that part? The closest thing i saw was https://th.rs-online.com/web/c/automation-control-gear/circuit-protection-circuit-breakers/mcbs/

not sure about the prices and model! ???? Can help me out please? :))

30 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Even if you don't intend doing it yourself, it's always handy to know what your man should be doing so you can "guide" him ????

 

Sadly, our Thai friends are very good at finding "shortcuts" which work most of the time, until they don't and someone dies ????

 

Thats so true and so sad indeed. Sadly, have to play mr supervisor everytime they renovate XDXD