Thailand didn’t lock down early, and even after they did lock down, it wasn’t hard until much later. When I crossed the border from Laos on March 14/2020, all bars, restaurants and massage parlors were wide open. I spent St. Patrick’s day drinking in a very crowded bar, and even after bars, night clubs, and massage parlors were closed, restaurants remained open to sit-in customers until early April. 
Europe was overrun with COVID, and in a state of emergency at this point in time. 
 

Thailand, like the rest of SEA, simply got lucky with the first wave.

Vietnam locked down much harder and much earlier. Cambodia did very little, apart from (mostly) closing their borders. All three countries ended up with basically the same result: Very few covid cases and even fewer deaths. 
Once the stronger variants started to circulate, it was only a matter of time before it would start popping up to a more noticeable degree. 

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

I just showed you thousands who were suffering from the effects of long covid. Didn't you see that?  This virus is only been around 18 months or so. Do a Google search. You might be surprised.

Thousands out of millions is not 30%

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Google "Long Covid".  Hundreds of articles about this.  My good friend has brain fog from it.  Lasted about 9 months.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/11/health/coronavirus-long-covid-intl/index.html

 

For many sufferers of long Covid, proving they are sick is a big part of the battle

 

A separate study published last month showed that seven in 10 people who had been hospitalized for Covid-19 have not fully recovered five months after being discharged.

I’ve read all about long covid, including some first hand stories on the forums I read. I never said it’s not a real thing. 

Millions of people have had covid; I’m not seeing thousands of people who have been permanently disabled by it. So far I’ve seen none. 

 

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

3000 road deaths....how often do you see a dead body on the road?

Heart attacks......how often do you see someone drop down dead?

Cancer.......how many victims do you see day to day?

In my time riding on roads in SEA I have seen six dead bodies laying on the road, and countless others severely injured in accidents.

A few years ago my Dad was driving down the road and saw an old man walking. As he passed him and looked in the rear view mirror, the man flopped on his face. My Dad stopped and went to see if he was okay - he was dead. When the ambulance arrived they told him it was most likely a major heart attack or stroke. 

This is just one second hand story of actually seeing someone drop dead out of nowhere, but I know plenty of people who have died of heart attacks. Same goes for cancer, including my mother and two grandparents. 

Im not saying long covid doesn’t exist, I’m saying that I don’t believe it happens in anywhere near 30% of cases. 

On 3/17/2021 at 8:07 PM, cmarshall said:

The Vietnamese conducted the most extensive contact tracing program in the world: they not only traced all the contacts of anyone who tested positive, but they uniquely traced all the contacts of all those contacts.  

Cambodia did none of these things, and fared just as well as Vietnam. How do you explain their success?

It certainly wasn’t a result of effective government policies. Looks to me like dumb luck. 

On 3/17/2021 at 4:52 PM, cmarshall said:

This is one of the more ridiculous theories.  China is a large country.  The bats in question are found in the extreme western part of China.  So, it beggars belief that people in Shanghai on the East coast of China would have had any contact at all with the bats in question.  But, the facts are even worse for your theory since we understand even in Western China human contacts with bat population are a recent phenomenon brought about by increasing areas of human activity in a zone that had been wild.

To say nothing of why the Thais, Japanese, Taiwanese, New Zealanders, and Australians would have developed any resistance to pathogens originating in Western China.

By contrast malaria was widespread and endemic in West Africa for the millennia which are necessary for an adaptation like sickle cell to evolve.

Why is it so hard to believe that the Western governments have been either grossly incompetent or criminally indifferent or both?  Sometimes the obvious explanation is the right one.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03217-0

After cancelling my flight home twice, EVA gave me a refund of $500 on a $860 round-trip flight, which I had already used one way. 

It took about a month to get the money back, but they paid up, and I was happy with the amount I was refunded. I booked a new flight home with another airline for $640. I feel like I made out okay. 

1 hour ago, kokesaat said:

Two thoughts.  One, their numbers are as believable as numbers coming out of the US with so many states not reporting nursing home deaths or undertesting.  Second, China's response to the pandemic has made me think there are clear advantages to living in an authoritarian country.....not that I'd choose to live there

There’s clear advantages to authoritarianism if you’re a member of the ruling party.
Watch for sudden outbreaks wherever a large group congregates for any reason that is not party-approved, and for contact tracing to allow those who might be infected to be easily located and “quarantined” in a secure facility. 

On 5/19/2020 at 11:06 PM, Traubert said:

Name another country that China has ever banned tourists from outside of a medical emergency?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pacific-china-palau-insight/empty-hotels-idle-boats-what-happens-when-a-pacific-island-upsets-china-idUSKBN1L4036

2 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

What if the Dr could not be a Dr anymore??? What would be his future??

 

Don’t worry about him, one of his connections would make sure he gets a government job. 

52 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Unfortunately, many of these self designated  "musicians" in tourist zones are awful. How many times do I have to hear Smoke on the Water, or Proud Mary or  any other  very poorly performed 1970's era <deleted>? It is one of the many reasons why the bars  didn't do well. That, and the filthy uncomfortable decor and the hovering of the  prostitutes. Not all of us want to be bothered by elderly hookers or folks we know  will share their herpes/ hiv/ warts/lice for a bit of dosh.

 

Many places in Thailand have done well. They have a focus and some of the following characteristics;

- Well trained staff

-  Safe and pleasant atmosphere

- Noise levels  that do not impair hearing and where you don't have to shout to be heard.

- Decent kitchens

- Fair pricing

- Friendliness

 

The absolutely worst places to have a drink are in the crowded ghetto beer bars found in Patong, Pattaya  etc. No ambiance and they attract too many losers.  Get rid of the cheap  dirty plastic chair type of bar/brothel and replace with places that have a vibe, and cut the number of the joints. 

 

 

It sounds like you’re into a certain kind of establishment that offers a more upscale environment, and that’s great! There are more and more of those places popping up all the time for you to enjoy.

So why not let the people who want cheap beer, crappy cover bands, and ugly hostesses enjoy their fun in the kind of places they like? Nobody said you have to go there too.
As long as they have enough customers to pay the rent and keep the lights on, the dive bars have just as much right to exist as the fancier places. 

2 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

Really pathetic response. you have done a complete u turn, so firstly i was talking nonsense about the problem and now you say it is a problem but you are now accusing  me of having something against the genuine sex workers? When did I say that? Did I not say to you to regulate it, protect everyone including you the women you seem to think I have something against. Until then the industry suffers, and if that is what it takes to protect children then so be it. So that means you lot will have to go and find real woman relationships instead of paying for it. 

Neither I, nor anyone else here ever said that trafficking wasn’t a problem where it is happening. What I have been telling you from the start is that it’s a completely separate conversation from bar girls who work in foreigner-frequented bars in Pattaya. 
Guess what? I’m against people who screw around with children too, but shutting down bars that employ women of legal age won’t help that problem either.

The industry in Pattaya is regulating itself just fine. If anything, they could use less government intervention from the guys who come around collecting envelopes every month. 
 

Do you honestly believe that the mafia has no hand in bringing all of the Eastern European women to Amsterdam? The only thing that more regulation will do is make sure the government gets its cut of the action.

7 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

it is not easy for a christian church to raise funds in a 98% Buddhist country, much easier to stay in the USA where there is much more money and a shed load more Christians so try again fella...

Most of their funding comes from people in western countries who have never visited Thailand, and assume that all of the women working in bars are trafficking victims, like you do.

5 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

well your argument is watering down a bit... So for the bar owners that were arrested in Pattaya for trafficking children into the sex trade, whilst the children were there, (before they were saved by charities) how many men paid the bar fine to take the children home? How did they know? How do you tell the difference in a completely unregulated industry where it's all tainted with this horrific crime? Anyway, I know the problem is real and people are fighting it everyday. You and the few others that keep turning a blind eye trying to convince me its not true and the industry is ok because the girls want to do it,,,honest maybe you ALL can finally do some proper research and understand how terrible the situation really is... And talking to bar girls is useless waste of time, they are never going to tell you if something has happened and they will also lie about their age.... yes ive made up my mind, maybe you should think again...

 

Yes, you’re right, human trafficking and sex slavery is a problem, so do you think that if all of the neon-lit gogo bars on walking street were shuttered, that the problem would go away? 
The police and charities do what they can to stop illegal activity involving children, or adults working against their will. All you’re doing is suggesting that a whole bunch of adult women, who choose to make their living working in bars or massage parlors, should be put out of work because you don’t like the idea of what they do. 
You ignore the fact that almost all of those women don’t agree with you. 

5 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

anything credible yet? 

 

Here’s one example of the opposite perspective: 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-03-23/why-cambodias-sex-workers-dont-need-be-saved

Yes, I know it’s about Cambodia, but I think  it still applies. Hopefully it’s credible enough for you. 
 

8 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Goodness me, a typical sex tourist attitude. The charities and churches are trying to support vulnerable women, what do you think they are doing everyday? They are not alone so look again if you find charities and churches not credible sources. I wonder if they would be considered credible if they were tackling poverty or starvation? Try looking harder there are many others and plenty of high calibre press articles from people such as Reuters or the Guardian. But I suspect you wont will you. Look prostitution is illegal in Thailand, however there is a grey line, paying someone for sex is technically not illegal but street walkers are, bar fines are and trafficking certainly is, the authorities turn a blind eye to bar fines and mostly ignore the street walkers across the sea front. Human trafficking is real, sex trafficking is real and you will never, ever know because the industry is not regulated, so you can't tell when you pay that bar fine how they got there. There is no protection for women at all. The sex trade attracts organised crime and trafficking, particularly in Thailand. So unless it is heavily regulated and women and children are protected the whole industry is tainted. check it all out for yourself, research and see what is really going on and stop challenging me over this until you do so. by the way, I lived in Pattaya for 7 years, what makes you think in all that time I didn't speak to a hooker in a bar? Of course I did. Below is a link, took me 30 seconds to find it, shame you are not capable of doing this yourself because you have made up your mind already despite evidence everywhere,,, the height of stupidity in my opinion. Oh lastly, abhoring trafficking and exploitation is does not make me emotional or irrational. It;s people like you living in denial that makes life difficult for people trying to save people from a horrific life.

https://thairesidents.com/local/pattaya-bar-owner-arrested-related-human-trafficking/

No one here is arguing that human trafficking is okay, or that it doesn’t ever happen. What we are arguing is that there’s a difference between trafficking and the open adult entertainment industry in Pattaya, and that the whole industry shouldn’t be lumped into the same category as sex slavery, when everyone here, including the women themselves, know that the overwhelming majority work in the industry by choice. 
Do you raise the same kind of stink over strip clubs in Vegas? 
Do you think that shutting down the bars full of women who choose to work there would eliminate human trafficking in the world?

There’s no point in arguing with you, as you’ve obviously made up your mind on the subject, but if you were to talk to 100 bar girls in Pattaya, and ask them what they thought, I’m willing to bet 99 of them would disagree with you. 

22 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

The women wouldn't play me for anything, i don't use hookers and even if I did I am not stupid enough to believe the <deleted> that comes out of their mouths... so they could try and take me for whatever they like but they will get nothing,,, I assume you have been taken for a ride already?

 

Nope, never been taken for a ride yet, but I have known a few bar girls for years, and know all about their history. Obviously every woman has a different story, but the one you are telling is the exception, not the rule, by any stretch. 
 

As for doing research, maybe you could do more of your own by actually talking to the people who work in the industry, rather than reading articles posted by churches and charities who need to garner sympathy in order to fund themselves. 
There’s plenty documentary filmmakers who have taken the time to talk to the women working in Pattaya’s sex trade, which will save you the trouble of having to interact with them yourself, but what’s the point in watching if you assume that anyone who tells you what you don’t want to hear is lying?

6 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

 

Oh really? And what do you think they would say? Do you not think they would spin me whatever story seems appropriate? Or do you think when I ask them about their past the will tell me openly they were trafficked and raped at 14 and have been a hooker ever since working for a gang of organised crime? Get real....

I think the more experienced and aggressive ones would play you for the sympathetic fool you are, and try to take you for whatever they could. 
 

Do you really believe that the many women who ride around Pattaya on a new motorcycle, with the newest phone in their designer handbag, posting pictures of themselves and their friends at fancy restaurants and nightclubs, all paid for by their multiple foreign sponsors, are being forced to do what they do by the mafia?

Human trafficking and the legal entertainment industry are two different topics of discussion, but your emotionally driven preconceptions won’t allow you to separate them.

10 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Yes I am passionate about the situation regarding the illegal and/or unregulated sex trade exposing women and children to abuse. I know things about the human trafficking and sex trade because one of my oldest friends is a foster parent and heavily involved in a charity fighting to protect children and vulnerable women. I found out about Pattaya after I started to live there and could see clearly the sex trade was everywhere. I am not married to a Thai woman. Again I give you the same advice I gave the other poster, research sex trafficking yourself and see what is going on in Thailand/Pattaya, or dont, live in denial. simply google it,, wont take you long. I wonder if either of you have the fortitude to actually investigate for yourselves?

You really need to get out and talk to some of the women who actually work in the bars. 

Knowing this, is it reasonable to think that a significant portion of the asymptomatic people who have tested positive might have actually already beaten the virus, and could now be immune?

Are there different kinds of tests being used elsewhere that can differentiate between dead virus fragments and a live infection?