Ryan754326

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What was it you said earlier?:

 

“No, I can’t provide a link, it’s just my own pessimistic prediction,“

 

However, you could look at the past history of pandemics and observe the fact that they eventually disappear as the virus that caused them mutates until it eventually ceases to be a public health treat and/or disappears.

 

But of course that would not fit your predilection to ‘pessimistic prediction’ and certainly undermines your ‘endless booster’ doom

mongering.

I don’t know what to tell you. All of my pessimistic predictions have come true so far, and most of the optimistic ones that were being made by others when the vaccines first arrived have now been proven to be wrong. 

I’m not saying the vaccines don’t work, but they aren’t going to return us to normal. I suspect, like you, that nature will eventually take care of that. What I’m skeptical about, is whether politicians and the media will allow the hype to die down once the disease itself has. 
 

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Recovered after being vaccinated......   .... Miraculous ???.... erm... ????

 

 

 

I acknowledge that having been vaccinated may have lightened my symptoms and accelerated my recovery, although I’m fairly confident that I, personally, would have survived either way. The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t see why I would need any more jabs at this point, when the ones I’ve already had, along with natural immunity, appear to have done the job. 
 

What I don’t agree with is the the prospect of mandatory jabs every few months in order for someone to be part of society. If big pharma had their way, the whole world would be eating a Tylenol every three hours to prevent us all from ever getting a headache. 

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Please, the point of your comment

"I got my two jabs, and still got infected (miraculously recovered after a few days of sniffles). I’m done now. "

was clearly that despite the fact you got vaccinated, you came down with covid. 

The point of my comment was that I’ve had the jabs, I’ve had the disease, I survived, and I don’t see why I should get any more jabs. Weren’t we discussing the apparently diminishing returns on repeated jabs spaced too closely together? 
The last bit was just me poking some fun at those who still believe that a healthy 35 year old will inevitably die if they contract covid. The data obviously suggests otherwise (vaccinated or not), but I’d never suggest that it can’t happen. 

If I delete that part of my comment, will you acknowledge the point I was actually trying to make, and explain why I would be wise to have a third or fourth jab down the road?
 

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But there was no "maybe" in your prior comment. You said you "miraculously recovered".

Yes, I said that, tongue in cheek, because at the time I got infected, none of my family and friends had known anyone at all who had been infected yet, and some of them were genuinely concerned that I might die, even though the statistics were very clearly indicating that I almost certainly would not. 
 

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Here's a good reason to get vaccinated.

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/us-man-claims-his-penis-has-shrunk-due-to-rare-covid-side-effect/news-story/4bb179721b4c4fe85888fbb36f6248a5

I’ve read all sorts of ridiculous stories about the vaccines causing strange side effects too, but I bet if posted links to those stories, you’d (rightfully) call it fake news. 

23 hours ago, Pravda said:

Sometimes I'm scared I'll catch covid if I quote the post 

You can greatly reduce that risk if you avoid quoting people who aren’t wearing a mask in their profile picture. 

25 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

in the uk     3/4 of folks with covid cases are unvacinated hence the     big numbers every day

The UK is claiming that 95% of the population already has antibodies, so with the Delta variant tearing through the rest, the entire population should either be immune or dead in no time. 
But… they are reporting almost 40,000 cases per day, so if 3/4 of those are unvaccinated, wouldn’t that mean almost 10,000 of those are breakthrough cases? 

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do a lot of talking for other ‘people’.

 

If one was to replace ‘people’ in the above with ‘I’ then I believe we’d arrive at your personal views.

 

It might also explain why, as you have recognized, people might think you are speaking from an agenda.

 

 

 

I’m just telling you what other people tell me, and I don’t feel like I live in an echo chamber either, I associate with a fairly diverse group of people. 
 

Are you living in Thailand at the moment? How do the Thais that you interact with feel about the covid situation? I know that the ones I keep in contact with stopped worrying about catching covid a long time ago. Now they’re just worried about where their next meal will come from. 
 

I often hear the word “selfish” being used to describe anyone who thinks that their life and livelihood are more important than staying home and waiting for covid to disappear. Does it ever occur to the people making these criticisms that maybe it’s them who are being selfish, by expecting the rest of society to put their lives on hold in order to keep the minority of those at serious risk safe? 

I don’t know what the consensus is in your social circle, but for me, it’s extremely rare to meet someone who isn’t just tired of it all, and more than willing to take their chances with covid if it means getting their lives back. Even my 86 year old Grandmother has had enough of it all. 
 

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Howard was introduced it Amy post because he was willing to say what most talk around.

 

"When are we gonna stop putting up with the idiots in this country and just say it's mandatory to get vaccinated? F--- 'em. F--- their freedom. I want my freedom to live," he said. "I want to get out of the house already. I want to go next door and play chess. I want to go take some pictures. This is bull----."

 

So Stern makes no bones about being concerned only for himself.

Where does he profess to be concerned for others?

 

"which just validates that people are scared for themselves,"

So if Howard Stern is motivated by fear for himself, that just validates that all people are scared for themselves.

Brilliant as usual.

Kinda like "Socrates is a man"

"All men are mortal"

"Socrates is mortal"

"therefore all men are Socrates"

 

Has Howard Stern been vaccinated? If so, what is he worried about? 
 

There’s never going to be a 100% guarantee of safety against covid, even if every human on earth is vaccinated, but your chances of surviving are very good if you’ve had the jab, so why not just let those who refuse it take their chances with their own lives?

18 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your observations don’t surprise me in the least and I certainly would not call you a liar.

 

However, your posting history is replete with downplaying the risks from COVID.

 

That you draw your conclusions from personal experience of not having seen COVID causing serious illness, long term illness or death is not in anyway a surprise.

 

That you go further and disparage the ever growing body of science and COVID case data that contradicts your views presents a big question mark over your statement above.

 

That’s not to say it’s a lie, rather it’s anecdotal from a limited view and contradictory to the growing body of science and case data.

Maybe I’m downplaying covid, but I could argue that the government and media has played it up a fair bit, and I think many people would agree with me. I live in an area that was hit hard by covid, so people here have first hand experience with it, and most of us don’t feel like what we see in the media reflects what we see in our day-to-day lives. 
When people see politicians who are forcing small businesses to stay closed, and then going out to private dinners with their rich friends, they begin to wonder why those politicians don’t appear to be very worried for their own safety.
When people see the stats showing that the majority of those dying are older than the average life expectancy, they begin to wonder why young, healthy people are being forced to live under the same restrictions as those who are actually at high risk.
When people have recovered from covid without any serious complications, but have lost their job or their business due to shutdowns, they start to wonder if the cure is worse than the disease. 

I don’t meet very many people who deny that covid can be very deadly to certain groups of people, but I think we have to be more honest about who these people are, and stop with the one size fits all approach. 
 

I’ve never said that the initial restrictions were unjustified, but at this point, where I live, vaccines are available to anyone who wants them, so I think it’s time that we learn to live with this virus and move on. I do understand that the situation is different in Thailand and other countries, where vaccines are not yet widely available, but once they are, things should be opened up. Let those who refuse the vaccine live, or possibly die, with their decision. 

11 hours ago, cdemundo said:

The question is what exactly are you saying?

You have not been very precise.

 

How many is everyone? 1? 5? 10?

That makes a difference; sample size right?

 

Were they verified to have COVID by testing?

There are those who say "I had COVID and I shrugged it off like a mild cold".

But without being tested for COVID, Bill from Ockham would say it was most likely a mild cold.

 

Re-stating: If someone got sick and shrugged it off like a mild cold, barring other evidence, it was probably a mild cold.

 

 

I would guess that I’ve personally spoken to 20 or so people who have had a confirmed case of covid. I live with co-workers, and three of the five people living in our house tested positive last Christmas. Me and one other had no symptoms, so we were never tested - just told to quarantine for two weeks, and report any symptoms if they arose. 
 

I work at a mining operation, and at any given time there are thousands of people working on site. Every employee is tested every 72 hours. 
The mine did a maintenance shutdown last spring, and thousands more workers were brought in, and put into camps. Predictably, there was a major outbreak, and the shutdown had to be scaled back, but at one point, about 10% of the tests were said to be coming back positive. 
Things have calmed down now, but during that time, my company was losing a few employees a week due to either a positive case, or close contact with a positive case (we spend a lot of time on crew buses).
The city nearby was overrun with covid for a few months during late winter/early spring, so anyone you talk to will know a few people who have had covid, or will have had it themselves. 

I’ve talked to plenty more people around here who believe that they had covid at some point, but like you, I disregard any stories that weren’t confirmed by a positive test. 

Here is an article from last April, describing the situation that we were in. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/alberta/article-fort-mcmurray-declares-state-of-emergency-as-covid-19-cases-rise/

Everyone I know who’s had covid was over it in less than a week. Most in 2 or 3 days. I don’t know anyone who was hospitalized, or died, or ended up with long covid after the fact. 
 

I’m not saying that covid isn’t dangerous, or that it hasn’t killed people who appeared to be healthy, I’m just describing what I’ve seen within my own circle. 
 

You’d be amazed how many people refuse to believe me when I say this, and assume that I’m lying to promote an agenda. It’s interesting how upset some people get when you tell them that someone shrugged covid off like a mild cold.
A lot of people still believe that covid kills 10% of those who get it. Even more seem to believe that vast numbers of children are dying. 

9 hours ago, gargamon said:

Where did that come from? Delta has an R-naught of over 5. 

According to a study posted on another thread, that is the probability of a vaccinated person spreading covid to another. 

5 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Yes. Your link does not explain the "why" Dr. F. felt the need to make these statement. Hint: there is a reason.

Go on, tell us what the reason was. 

55 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Simple. Vaccinated people can still transmit the virus. Low, yes. But still possible and were still in the middle of a global pandemic!

 

Best to be safe than sorry.

Being safe is great, but at some point we have to accept that life comes with risks and let people get back to living like normal human beings.
If a 1 in 5000 chance of spreading the virus is not an acceptable level of safety, then what is?

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So to fit into your view of ‘failing experts’ Fauci must make guesses and advise public policy on the basis of those guesses.

 

Trump did not go against WHO advice. His order re-arrivals from China was coincident with the WHO statement.

 

But let me charitable and accept for a moment that Trump realized the threat COVID posed and that as he signed the executive order on January 31 he was acting to protect Americans from the virus.

 

This raises  host of troubling questions regarding his actions, words and failures to act in the coming months.

 

It also is a convenient point to ask, what part did the failures of political leaders play?

 

We could even go on to observe political leaders and commentators who hold influence over what others hear are still actively discouraging the public health measures that are proven to be safe and effective in the fight against COVID.

 

The science is sound, not so much of the political leadership.

I’m not saying he should have guessed, I’m saying that he should have been much more careful about what he was implying.
Did you watch the video? He plays down the effectiveness of masks and says that there’s no reason for anyone besides healthcare workers to be wearing them.

Why not just say that scientists are looking into whether masks might help, but for now we have a shortage, and the ones we have are needed by doctors, so just stay home as much as possible?

I have no interest in getting into a debate about Donald Trump. I don’t like the guy, and I never defended his policies or actions concerning covid, but he did stop arrivals coming in from China and was criticized for it at the time. Whether that was genuinely out of concern for people’s safety, or simply to appeal to his base, is a separate conversation that I don’t feel like having. 
 

You asked for a link showing that experts advised against closing borders, and I provided it. 

23 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Please give a link to these experts. But yes, lockdowns are destructive. As is the virus. No easy answers.

 

As for OZ and NZ. Lots of good reports out there describing why they are where they are. Again, no easy answers and hindsight is always 20/20.

 

I'd never call anyone a Nazi. Never. Terrible thing to do.

Easy to Google the WHO position on lockdowns, but here you go.
 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/15/lockdowns-should-be-last-resort-whos-europe-chief-says.html

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12753688

Can we agree that Australia, with the military patrolling the streets, is in a state of “full lockdown”?

I’m glad you’d never call anyone a Nazi, but can you also stop calling people covid deniers? (unless, of course, they actually deny covid).

It’s an annoying thing to do. 

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

 

1. FAUCI on masks

 

Yes Fauci's 'early advice' several months before it was discovered that the virus spread was airborne.

 

From the timelines I have linked above:

 

 

The attached SAGE timeline includes that advice on masks and on the virus being airborne.

 

• April 2 2020 'Nature' publishes a paper 'Is COVID Airborne'
• July 8 'Nature' publishes "Mounting evidence suggests coronavirus is airborne"
• Susequently public health advice on facemarks masks and distancing is stepped up.

 

2. WHO on border closures.

 

From the article you linked:

 

There is a “huge reason to keep official border crossings open” to avoid people entering irregularly and going unchecked for symptoms, WHO spokesman Christian Lindmeier told a Geneva briefing. “If travel restrictions would be imposed we hope they are as short-lived as possible to try to continue the normal flow of life,” he added. 

 

The WHO gave a very sound argument to back their advice.

 

President Trump had on the same day ordered the banning of most, but not all, people flying into the US from China. 

 

But it was already too late. 

 

The first infection diagnosed outside of China was in Thailand. The first confirmed COVID death in the US occurred on February 6.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-pandemic-timeline-history-major-events-2020-3

 

 

 

 

 

 

So it never occurred to Dr. Fauci, one of the worlds most informed experts on infectious diseases, that covid might be airborne, and that maybe masks could help, even if they were just homemade cloth ones? 
I understand that there was a PPE shortage, and he didn’t want everyone rushing out and buying up all the available masks that were desperately needed for healthcare workers, but he should have chosen his words much more carefully. 
 

The link I posted clearly shows the WHO’s position on border closures at that time. Trump went against that advice and banned most incoming passengers from China. He didn’t ban all passengers from China because they were US citizens, and had a legal right to return. I would agree that it was incredibly stupid of him to not require those Americans to quarantine on arrival. 

The fact remains that experts DID advise against closing borders, and they were wrong. 

16 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

What less popular expert are you referring to?

 

Few experts are on TV. With the exception of Fauci. TV isn't the best place to get expert opinions.

 

Why bring up nazis? Bizarre.

How about the experts at the WHO who have been saying for a long time that lockdowns are a destructive and unsustainable strategy that should only be used under the most extreme circumstances? Why aren’t Australia and NZ listening to their advice? 
 

I brought up Nazis because thats what you get called nowadays if you disagree with certain people’s political beliefs, similar to the way that you called me a denier because I disagreed with your opinion on covid, despite the fact that I have never denied covid on this forum or anywhere else.