herfiehandbag

But you can bet your bottom dollar that immense effort is going to go into finding out who did what, when and where. Then they will face a reckoning.

Hey, steady on, he has probably read all the books, got all the kit stored in his cupboard for when the time comes, and likely has been cultivating the droopy moustache for several years now. like one of those "slinkys" - the tightly coiled springs that kids have - totally useless but great fun watching them fall down stairs...

Certainly went over my head, mind you I think we maybe on the same track...

You were the chap with the little white watering can watering the pot plants weren't you? The one who looked so surprised when the flash bangs went off, and that bloke in a respirator and Noddy suit abseiled past you? What colour is the boathouse ...

I am sure that you were nodding your head wisely when that Hamas spokesman claimed repeatedly on the recent Sky News interview that Hamas had not killed any civilians!

And of course if they get a good "fix" on one, they will tell the Israelis.

Funnily enough I remember it as well. Off topic, but if you remember it so well you will remember that there were actually more Royal Marines than Paras involved, and that the major limitation on the Argentinian anti shipping air attacks was that they only had a few aircraft capable of launching the missiles. If that capacity had been greater, and the risk greater then the mainland air bases would have gone up. That would have been a major escalation, but... Their aircraft carrier was already out of the game, it buggered off very quickly when the submarine threat became evident. Anyway, whilst there were some nasty pieces of work amongst the Argentinian "players" none even came close to these savages. This is not our war, in the sense that the Israelis neither want nor need British troops deployed - I very much doubt that they even particularly want American involvement, although their logistics chain will help. They will sort it themselves - it is rather what they will do. And don't worry about UN troops either - in past years in the Middle East (and elsewhere) they have shown themselves about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. I have some experience of "UN duties", and their chain of command and decision making processes are about as robust and effective as balsa wood armour!

No they won't. That said information on individuals, locations, techniques and equipment will be flowing into Israel. Their own military will provide the people on the ground. If Israel asks for assistance with analysis and forensic work, in particular with identifying terrorists, they will get it, probably already are. Less likely but they may ask for assistance with planning and training - they are going to be busy in months to come.

A truly horrific account. Plenty of images of the evil savages. Facial recognition technology will identify most. Israel will surely hunt them down. It doesn't matter if you were waving a gun, wielding a knife or just driving a motorbike, they will identify you, and find you, and kill you. I can't say I would lose any sleep over that!

If memory serves, this bunch were parading whilst Hamas were getting their jollies throwing homosexuals off high buildings. Naive, stupid or both?

Most of these grandly titled committees and groups probably consist of 3 people hunched over a laptop in a student dormitory room.

They have certainly tightly controlled access. However they have (until these attacks) supplied electricity, fuel, water, food and medical supplies. They have issued permits allowing Gazans to cross into Israel to work (mainly in agriculture) in the bordering areas; they recently significantly increased the number of such permits. I understand where appropriate they have also allowed Gazans whose conditions cannot be treated in their own hospitals to enter Israel for treatment. This of course has now stopped completely, hardly surprisingly. The "blockade" centred upon items which had any potential for military uses, in particular construction materials which could also be used to build bunkers and tunnels and similar installations. Other items included electronic and communication equipment, which of course also had military uses, particularly with rockets.

I have lately been watching "Rookies" - I have never seen such a collection of gorgeous police women! Almost worth going and committing a crime in Los Angeles to get arrested! In past years, "Morse" and " Minder". Poles apart as mental challenges, but both great entertainment.

And others who allocate you arbitrarily to"camps" of their own classification, and suggest that any view that Israel may have any case is "worst filth, the biggest lies, the most disgusting and vile dehumanising cheerleading". A bit like the world's view on Israel and the Palestinians really.

You oversimplify. By suggesting that there are can only be two camps, by arbitrarily allocating participants in this debate in this forum to one of those camps, you are effectively trying to close down the debate. I see myself in neither camp. I have taken part in neither the "worst filth, the biggest lies, the most disgusting and vile dehumanising cheerleading", nor have I expressed anti Semitism. These most recent events, the attacks by Hamas are appalling atrocities, which frankly will not advance the cause of the Palastinian people one bit. Rather they will serve to load even more ills upon the people of Gaza, a people oppressed by Hamas and who, if we assume Hamas were elected for a 4 year term, have been denied any opportunity to express a view on the regime they live under for at least 12 years. Hamas can not but have been fully aware of the reaction they would provoke. They launched a raid, in and out, accompanied by a rocket barrage. a killing and hostage taking spree. Once the Israelis recovered their footing after the initial surprise they knew that the incursion would be rapidly defeated, and they knew the reaction it would provoke. They didn't care, perhaps they welcome it. Israel's position is more nuanced. First it is a democracy. The present government faces strong opposition, and is by no means guaranteed to survive. There are many voices which oppose it as exemplified by the interview with the Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem earlier in this thread. Because it is a democracy, and had been since it's founding, that shapes it's long term path. So, for. example, the occupation of the West Bank and the Golan Heights were political decisions, taken by a democracy, as measures of political expediency. Yes it was over 5 decades ago, yes things have changed, but you cannot decouple the present realities from history. If you deny Israel has a right to exist ( I don't), what then to do with it's 9 million Jews? Hamas, with its creed of "from the river to the sea" has a simple solution, exterminate them. There may be, are, more moderate compromising schools among the Palestinians. They are ruthlessly surprised. Returning to present. Air bombardment is a crude tool. For all the air mens boasts of precision bombing it causes a lot of what is casually dismissed as collateral damage, a particularly callous term. Yet Israel is right to aim for the destruction of Hamas, and in particular it's military capacity and infrastructure. How to do that? Air bombardment is today the only tool available, it should be used sparingly. In the near future we may see a land invasion, but of course that faces the same problem, Hamas hides behind the civilian population. Complex isn't it. Returning to your two camps analogy - " my way or the highway" and the comments you made are grossly unfair to those who consider, ponder and try and find solutions, framed by the prism of decency and humanity, in what is possibly the most intractable problems of our time. Dawn is breaking, the village headman is haranguing us through his loudspeakers ( now there is a candidate for a "surgical air strike") and another long night of insomnia is over. That's why I am so grouchy - still the dogs are sleeping soundly! ???? ZZZ

They are an agency likely ( almost inevitably) controlled by Hamas, so I have my reservations.

You are not debating are you? Just trying to pick a fight. I have never said, suggested or even hinted, that I think that the inhabitants of Gaza are animals. I do however think that Hamas are "beyond the pale" in so many ways. I have no sympathy for them, (Hamas) as they (Hamas) face the consequences of their actions. I do not extend that animosity to the people of Gaza. This particular exchange remember was about the insensitivity of a TV journalist in his questioning of a man whose family had been taken as hostages Many of us have strong views on both the atrocities of the last few days, and the wider aspects of the ongoing situation. I have tried to temper my reactions, and when asked for my opinions and possible solutions give as thoughtful an opinion as I can as persuasively as I can. By all means offer alternatives, argue them forcibly, but all you are doing is trying to pick a fight because we may hold different views. We don't have to go back far through this thread to find posts suggesting many more inhuman and frankly abhorrent ways to treat the people of Gaza. You choose to ignore them. You are not, by any chance, having discerned that I feel strongly about the subject (and dare I say it, am able to construct and project some reasonable arguments), trying to goad me into losing my temper and saying something that would have me or my posts taken down?

I have had another search - it appears to be a claim by the Gaza Health Ministry.

Still interested to know where this "killing 140 children" comes from. Again may I ask, do you have a source or link?

"Situating the appreciation" as opposed to "appreciating the situation".

The Channel 4 journalist obviously does not have a monopoly on being crass and inconsiderate.

I have just watched a comprehensive 45 minute Channel 4 News ( UK Terrestrial TV channel) report on the Gaza attacks. It was (perhaps surprising for some, C4 has something of a reputation for bias) an even handed report. It did however include what was probably the most crass and inconsiderate question ever asked by an interviewing journalist. Imagine asking a man, 6 of whose family including a 9 month old baby and an elderly medicine dependent aunt, had been seized and dragged into Gaza as hostages : " have you any sympathy for people in Gaza?" How stupid can you get? At the end the studio presenter tried to browbeat the Israeli ambassador to the UK in a studio interview , accusing Israel of engaging in unrestricted collective punishments. She absolutely wiped the floor with him.

I've just done a quick web search. It throws up nothing. In fact the only connection it showed between Gaza and the number 140 is that Gaza covers an area of 140 square miles. Do you have a link to support your claim?

Ironically, if perhaps off topic, PIRA spent twenty years bombing Northern Ireland themselves! Destroying their own people's infrastructure, economy and jobs! Never really understood that.

I tried to explain. Short term the only solution, and it is a stopgap, is the destruction of Hamas, which otherwise will continue instigating slaughter. If they are not defeated they (with Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad) are an existential threat to Israel. That means ( they openly advocate) a genocide of the Jewish population. Long term, remove the instigators, funders and planners. Iran, or more accurately their theocratic regime. As long as they are " players", there will never be peace. Peace needs goodwill on both sides, that goodwill, or the potential for it, exists in Israel. Iran will not allow it on the Palastinian side.