19 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I appreciate your common sense.

When I talked about hate of religion,  or christianity,  I was being a bit provocative. 

In fact, apart from the choice of words,  I am quite in agreement with your post, there are still lots of people posing as Christians, while being not Christians at all.

I hope you'll not be offended if I consider you a believer, as you seem to be honestly searching for the truth. 

Thanks. Not sure what I believe though. It's an interesting thing to consider in itself. 

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

There would be no humanism without Jesus' message of love and freedom imho. 

Trying to be a better person should suffice,  there's no need to campaign for atheism, as it serves no purpose, apart from signaling your unjustified hate for other people's beliefs. 

I agree Jesus had a good message that few christians truly live by but I guess none of us are perfect. For what it is worth I find that lots of  christians and lots of atheists are good people. 

I don't think of atheists hating the religious. They  find themselves having to defend and build a case for their position. Less now than in the past. Try being atheist 100 years ago or 500 years ago.

Part of being a good person can be taking responsibility for yourself. Not relying on forgiveness of your sins. If you do bad you have to live with the consequences. Maybe that is really really hard because we all sin and it's a heavy weight to carry.

Atheists would feel hate can come from the religious and their reliance on the church and the good book to back up their arguments. 

I suppose religious people feel the opposite. They might feel atheists might take advantage of the unknowability of god to take cheap shots and be smart alecs.

By the sound of it the ATO would see you as a non resident of Australia and as you have no income sourced from Australia you should not have to lodge. If you google ATO Do I need to lodge a tax return Tool it'll take you to a tool that asks you a series of questions.  Some links take you to the Mygov site but there's one that takes you direct to the tool. 

If there's something tricky in your situation call the call centre and ask to be put through to someone who can help. There are people who's job is to just make that decision. But from what you said you should not need to lodge.

11 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

That my friend is a lie.

There are thousands of videos on Youtube and other streaming sites which show prior to about 2015 Biden was actually an excellent speaker. Fast witted, and not even the slightest whiff of a stutter. For decades and decades and decades, no trace of this lame stutter excuse for Biden's inability to speak. Why now? Are you admitting the obvious without realizing it?

 Putin would make him look a total fool, which is why Biden is running from the challenge. Note to Biden, next time you run your mouth off make sure you have the ability to back it up if you get called out. How embarrassing it is to see him unable to engage with other world leaders like this.

Boy you are making some big calls here. There are two points to what I said - one is that he is a bit elderly and one that he has suffered a stutter. I did not deny that he may have slowed down a bit due to age in recent years.

In addition he has a certain hesitancy in the way he speaks - it can make watching him a bit uncomfortable at times- but that comes from his former stutter - in his recent interview with George Stephanopolos he did stutter at one point.  So no lie thanks.

He was written off in the election campaign but did well, but not perfect,  in debates and has done well in countless interviews including the recent one above.

If someone is a bit slower it can be an asset in that they can give a more considered response. It is a pity you focus on superficialities instead of the content of what he says.

I don't think a murderous dictator could make anyone look like a fool in a debate. Biden is not like Trump who appeared to feel a kinship with his kind.

You did not dispute other things I said so it is good to see you concur.

23 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Hey, well done...another copy/paste effort from you. A superficial article from an unnamed "European Scientist" on top of that. ????

I can copy/paste as well...

 

Ten things worth knowing about biodynamic farming

by Elisabeth Winkler on 5 October, 2018 in Farming

 

Licensed in over 60 countries worldwide, biodynamic farming is a method of organic farming and gardening with a specific holistic and spiritual approach to growing food sustainably.

1. How it all started

The phenomenon we now identify as the organic movement arose in the early twentieth century as agriculture started to become more industrialised and synthetic fertiliser was introduced. Biodynamic farming was born from a series of agricultural lectures in 1924 given by Austrian philosopher and social reformer, Rudolf Steiner (1861 – 1925). He had been invited to a Silesian farm estate by a group of farmers concerned about the negative impact of nitrogen fertiliser on soil quality. Drawing on traditional farming practices and his own “spiritual science” which aimed to bring scientific rigour to spirituality, Steiner suggested a set of practices and principles for sustainable agriculture. He urged his followers to test his ideas and, thanks to this approach, biodynamic farming developed through collaborative research, observation and hands-on farming practice.

2. The philosophy behind it

Rudolf Steiner developed Anthroposophy (‘anthropo’ meaning human, and ‘sophia’ meaning wisdom), a philosophy based on the premise that all beings can develop their inner potential and access a spiritual world. This philosophy has inspired an education system (Waldorf and Steiner schools), a therapeutic approach for people with learning difficulties (for example, the Camphill Communities), anthroposophic medicine, eurythmy (an expressive art movement) and biodynamic farming.

3. Demeter – the first eco-label

Named after the Greek goddess of the harvest, the orange Demeter label is the international logo used for certified biodynamic products. Founded in 1928, Demeter is the world’s first ecological food and farming trademark. Used in over 60 countries, Demeter certification verifies that biodynamic products meet international standards in the production and processing of sustainable food. Regulated in the UK by the Biodynamic Agriculture Association (BDA), Demeter’s biodynamic standards build on EU organic standards.

4. Differences between organic and biodynamic

 A UK farmer wishing to be certified for Demeter (biodynamic) accreditation must comply with EU organic regulations requiring a two-year conversion period. For biodynamic certification, Demeter standards require an additional year of conversion to include using eight mineral and plant-based preparations to activate soil life and plant growth on the land. Although there is a large body of observational evidence from farmers showing that biodynamic methods improve soil condition and plant health, more scientific research is needed. However, the long-term DOK field trials by FiBL (Forschungsinstitut für Biologischen Landbau) compared biodynamic (D for Demeter), organic (O) and conventional (K for ‘konventionell’) cropping systems suggests biodynamic practices are effective. FiBL stated: “In the biodynamic system, soil organic matter (humus) content remained stable for the first 21 years of the trial while it declined in all other systems”.

5. Biodynamic preparations for soil and plants

The highly-diluted biodynamic preparations are stirred for an hour to create a vortex and counter-vortex to oxygenate and disperse the active ingredients, then sprinkled or sprayed over soil or plants.

Two preparations, Cow Horn Manure (BD 500) and Horn Silica (BD 501) primarily prepare the fields while the remaining six ‘preps’ treat compost. Used to enhance soil biology, Horn Manure (BD 500) is made from the fresh manure of pasture-fed cows. Collected in the autumn, it is placed in a cow’s horn and buried for six months. When dug-up again, the cow pat has transformed from smelly lumps to a peaty brown-black crumble. Horn Silica preparation (BD 501) is used for plant health. Made from finely-ground quartz (a common stone or sand) and mixed to a paste, Horn Silica is buried in a cow’s horn in spring and dug-up in the autumn. Stored in a glass jar on a sunny window sill, it is diluted in miniscule quantities and sprayed as a fine mist on growing plants in the morning.

“Just as 1g of rich soil has a billion microorganisms, a biodynamic spray will have microscopic amounts of bacteria and fungi,” explains Kai Lange, diploma coordinator of the Biodynamic Agricultural College. “On one hand it is quantitative, and on other hand it is energetic – that is, the quality which goes beyond the physical body. But you do not need to believe in this for biodynamic methods to work,” he adds.

6. Have you ever wondered why cows have horns?

This question, posed by Steiner, led to practical evaluation of horns and animal health and the banning of dehorning under Demeter standards. According to a guide co-published by organic researchers FiBL, horns play a vital role in the animal’s health. There is a highly developed flow of blood to and from the horns, which appears to improve digestion and metabolism. Horns are also considered health indicators. “If a cow’s horn smells strongly, I know there is something wrong with her,” says biodynamic farmer, Christian Müller. A cow’s horns confer social status, and ensures a cow has more body space.

7. Cow dung and soil quality

Biodynamic farmers believe that cattle produce high-quality manure essential for soil health. “It is helpful to have cow dung in compost heaps, even in small amounts, to help fermentation and fertility,” says Gabriel Kaye, executive director of the Biodynamic Land Trust. The biodynamic preparation, Cow Pat Pit (or barrel preparation) can be added to the compost heap as a starter as well as being sprayed on the farmland and garden. It contains cow manure and the compost preparations and is recommended for those converting to biodynamic agriculture. Add a pinch to a bucket of water, stir for about 20 minutes, then spray, preferably in the autumn. Ask your local biodynamic farm for Cow Pat Pit or order the dried version called Mausdorf Starter from the BDA website.

8. Compost is king

Biodynamic farming aims to create healthy soil using compost and crop and grazing rotations. Uniquely, it treats the compost heap with medicinal plant-based preparations (BD 502-507) to encourage the microbial life needed for soil fertility (and which is suppressed by chemical fertiliser). “The purpose of the compost preparations is to bring about a harmonious decomposition process,” says Richard Thornton Smith, previous chair of Biodynamic Association Certification. “Biodynamic preparations enable the composted matter to stabilise and fix the nitrogen which is volatile. Their effect is to hold the decomposition process in a disciplined way to prevent nitrogen loss. If a compost heap gets too hot, it loses ammonia, a nitrogenous substance. That’s like money dropping out of your back pocket.”

9. Is biodynamic vegan?

While the diluted preparations are mineral, plant and manure-based, some use animal parts as ‘sheaths’ to hold and help activate the ingredients. For instance, BD 506 consists of dandelion flowers wrapped in a cow’s mesentery, the membrane covering the intestines. The parts come from healthy animals which have either been slaughtered for meat or old age. Steiner himself was a vegetarian, and biodynamic farming practice has the highest animal welfare at its heart.

10. Planting by the moon, stars and planets

Whilst traditional farming has long used lunar almanacs, the biodynamic calendar also includes constellations and planetary alignments. Inspired by Steiner, the biodynamic calendar, now in its 57th year, was developed by German farmer, Maria Thun (1922 – 2012) who experimented with planetary effects on planting, sowing and harvesting. Now produced by her son, Matthias Thun, the biodynamic calendar can be adapted for particular hemispheres. Although it is not mandatory for Demeter certification, the biodynamic calendar is used by farmers and gardeners.

One of the best ways to learn more about biodynamic growing is to join a local biodynamic group, visit local biodynamic farms or a Camphill Community. Rudolf Steiner’s agricultural lectures are a challenging read but provide the source material which informs biodynamic practice. For a more accessible introduction, choose The Biodynamic Year – Increasing yield, quality and flavour by Maria Thun.

Patrick Holden is Patron of the UK Biodynamic Association.

This may be obvious, but throughout history there are people who couldn't fully explain things through known science, and so use a mixture of scientific testing and some religion or spirituality to try and make sense of the world e.g. Isaac Newton. There inability to use science is not necessarily a fault because science wasn't there yet to test the theories.

The scientists among us may not like this but if you are living in the dark ages or the stone age, say, it must be hard just to say 'I have no idea' and so you might build a theory of the world based on partly on testing and partly by patching other beliefs together so you can get some contentment.

Someone like Steiner seems to deserve some merit as you point out for being a forerunner of discussing organic and natural farming techniques as per your post. He wasn't the first by any means but had some ideas that many follow today. Having said that it seems the basis of his beliefs were often pretty out there and in part strange and often non scientific.

You could say he had some good big ideas but his building blocks were pretty shaky as per Yodsak's post. 

I guess you can give someone credit for having a good 'big idea' about farming but still note that many of the specifics of what he believed had, and still have, little scientific merit. Given he lived in the 20th century too, the excuse that science had not caught up may also not apply, and his reliance on astrology and other beliefs could be deemed to be lazy and ill informed.

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

No doubt, though now superseded by the brilliant TVF B u g g e r The Diet Way To Happiness. Bound to happen. But there’s always a touch of absolutism in simple-minded binary thinking, no? Why the convenient requirement that one must preclude the other? Why not have both? WOT??? <knickers soiling> 

Based on the abundance of evidence, not to mention all the testimonials continually heard in the Health forum (why’s everyone so serious all of a sudden?), it’s actually more reasonable to consider the obvious shortcomings (not to mention shortness) of living life without due attention to one’s possible healthspan and lifespan.

Such consideration, as shown in the lives of some outstanding examples, might then lead one to make the rational decision to optimize BOTH via a healthy lifestyle. That would mean a high probability, over a meaningfully longer period of time, of greater fulfillment, satisfaction, and happiness—greater, that is, than might be otherwise attained via the Throwing caution to the wind and b u g g e r the diet principle.????
 

Thanks for the detailed reply.

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You obviously haven't been reading my posts for long. I do believe in God, but I also believe that God created life the universe and everything and then left the universe to get on with it without interfering. Did God save all the children that died yesterday because they didn't have enough to eat?

Caring is a human quality- are you saying God is human?

Black holes consume everything they can attract- assuming a black hole opened up in our galaxy, would you expect God to close the hole before it consumed planet earth and all life on it?

BTW, no zebra ever wanted to be ripped apart by lions, but we allow it to happen instead of killing all the lions.

 I said in a previous post that you seem to believe god created things at the big bang stage or before and then stopped any further interaction.  Therefore in your book the bible is a wrong account written by humans.

I wasn't sure though if you believed God looked on from afar and had an opinion or cared about the outcome. It appears you believe god has no response or presence or personality or feelings or opinion or  reaction or judgement.  Just interesting to find out from people who believe in god what that god is. 

5 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The cop was restraining a person who had a history with the cops. Try reading the link I provided. Sheds a new light on things.

Police  have it tough making split second decisions and dealing with the worst of the worst. In many cases they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

In this case though it's a tough job for the defence when he is literally standing on the guy, with no ongoing threat,  and bystanders are bringing the threat to George Floyd's life to his attention and for a lengthy period he chose to do nothing. 

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Factory farming is because ordinary farming won't provide enough for all the people. If one wants more natural farm practice ( which is a nonsense anyway, IMO ) reduce world population to where it can provide enough.

BTW are you OK with letting fish die a horrible death? Being left to die after being caught must be the equivalent of us drowning, IMO.

Also, why is stunning a cow and giving it a quick death worse than lions tearing a zebra to pieces? Should we not remove lions and other predators from the scene so herbivores are not killed?

You believe in God. You appear to recognise the life of an animal on a factory farm has a degree of cruelty to it. You probably recognise that animals have feelings, awareness, pleasure and pain. You justify it by saying you have to eat. I do something similar though I don't justify it and just try to eat animals treated a bit less cruelly at the margins. In that sense we are both without an ethical leg to stand on if you accept that animals don't want to be treated this way.  

What do you think god has to say? 'I made them tasty so get in for your chop' or  ' I created a world where animals roamed free and were eaten from time to time - you have used your free will to create an abomination of overeating and factory farms and cruelty'.  

If god doesn't care I wonder if it is a god worth following. 

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

Family, friends, relatives come to mind. I know a fat old grandad now "going for it" and hobbling on a cane owing to obesity. He's probably going to be sorely missed in a year or two. A firm believer in Ignorance Is Bliss, BTW. In a high profile case like Fixx’s, the ignorant love to seize upon it to further their own self-denials and rationalization. Self-aggrandizing comedians like Maher can then exploit such ignorance by spouting more of what they want to hear. 

In that context Fixx's name comes up now and again on the forum. So this post can serve as reference. 

 

You and Walker88 have some interesting posts with food for thought. But I feel there is a touch of absolutism in them.

For most people you don't have to choose between Ice cream and a few extra years - if you are obese with health issues related to it maybe so. 

Walker 88 seems to have gotten to the point that missing out on sugars is not a discipline because he does not miss them. For most people this is very difficult and does have a significant impact on enjoyment of life. I like a salad but I rarely crave them. I don't want to be that cyclist described in previous posts sitting eating his boring salad all the time. It seems like a serious and grim life to think too much about what you eat. 

Being seriously obese is objectively a poor decision but there is a big middle ground where a combination of discipline and allowing yourself to have indulgences and enjoy life shouldn't affect your current life or shorten your life.

There is some irony that you take  Bill Maher to task for making generalisations to make a bigger point -you seem to generalise about him being self aggrandising and spouting ignorance based on one short video. If you knew his work, as I said, you would know that it is not common for him to be criticised for having an opinion just to be a crowd pleaser. 

You fairly point out that the  video has it's faults. I  think it is fair to point out that being serious about diet or fitness to the degree of searching out wild plants to eat, or cutting your eating significantly to the point you are hungry all the time, or in general making it the centre of your life, and then making claims about those lifestyles not totally backed by science, may not lead to a long life and may in fact lead to a serious and boring life. 

There are no doubt merits in the approaches of those cited but I think it is reasonable to consider the shortcomings of living life with a continued focus on health and longevity and not on being fulfilled and satisfied and happy.

Share my Australian story which may or may not be of interest. In Australian supermarkets they have a range of fruit and vegetables you can buy called the 'odd bunch'. It is misshapen stuff they used to not sell. Like weird looking carrots.  They have bags of about 10 or 12 really small avocadoes which are just right for one serve and they are cheap. Cheap for Australia. They seem to last a decent time in the 'just right' phase.

If I buy a bigger one and  I need half I would put lemon juice on it to stop browning. 

I find the same problem with stone fruits like some peaches and nectarines. They sell them rock hard so they don't bruise but they just go from hard to mush. Not cool. 

48 minutes ago, jaiyen said:

What would have happened if he had killed a cop and he lived ? Cops family would have received a very low compensation payment.

 

Different thing. In this case the person deemed the killer is a City of Minneapolis worker so the  City of Minneapolis is deemed liable for compensation. If a policeman died then they may get some compensation from the city but not because it is the City's fault as such. 

If a policeman was killed and the killer was rich the family of the deceased policeman could likely sue the killer for $27 million.

8 hours ago, BigStar said:

They’re all pretty simple when boiled down to their basics.. Following any one of them to some extent would likely help the average member of Maher’s audience, Pritikin’s probably least.

It’s surprising how much the work of these authors--doesn't have to be ALL--continues to resonate today in various ways and is no longer considered “fad.” People often call something “fad” when they themselves just haven’t heard of it, don’t understand it, and don’t like it.

What's more outlandish than any claims by these authors/researchers are the "official" diets that have been recommended by The Authorities that've fueled the obesity epidemic. Death by Food Pyramid: How Shoddy Science, Sketchy Politics and Shady Special Interests Have Ruined Our Health is a start. Was reading something the other day about the convenient underpinnings of the Mediterranean diet. Laughable. Maher should work on that.  

No, Clive McCay didn’t write any “huge seller” or indeed any “seller.” Lying and distorting, as Maher not unexpectedly would, doesn’t make the point you imagine. Euell Gibbons DIDN’T swear he’d “live forever” owing to his or any other diet. Utter BS. “Gibbons was simply an advocate of nutritious but neglected plants.” --Wikipedia

All of them but one died of cancer (Pritikin committed suicide after diagnosed with leukemia) or a congenital defect. McCay’s autopsy isn’t available.

And David Crosby? Didn’t get cancer(!) and, to control his diabetes after all most dying of it, now follows a diet that surely reflects some of ideas in the authors/researcher Maher is distorting and trying making money off of. He’s probably learned to avoid starchy foods just as Adelle Davis recommended. Or if not he’d be better off if he did. I’ve known of diabetics who’d plan to eat a big bowl of ice cream and shoot themselves up with the estimated amount of insulin beforehand to keep themselves alive. Insane, but that’s addiction for you.

There are some great fad diets Maher could make fun of but then he’d have laugh at some of the crazy people following them. That might not be PC. If he's got some actual useful information, I'm happy to listen, knowing he might just be lying.  
 

Fair point. I did say 'many' not 'all' were a particular thing e.g. best sellers. So you have been a bit selective in your response.

A number of these authors did have good ideas but they were at times taken to task for going beyond what scientific research showed and into speculative findings. In that sense, a number of the diets have been described as fads, and criticism of some of the authors could be seen as fair game . One author did claim he'd live to 100.

Having said that, it could be seen as a  a cheap shot to criticise or make fun of  a number of the authors, who's basic message of good nutrition is a significantly better message than 'you'll probably die in any case'.   A number of the authors did do some good stuff to be fair.

I don't agree with your claim that Bill Maher would hesitate to go against more extreme diets. I don't think you know his work. He has made a career not only going against religion and the right, but he is particularly critical of the left and PC and twitter and cancel culture. He is constantly critical of democrats particularly in his state of California. His show in the 1990's was called Politically Incorrect and in recent weeks, though his politics are left of centre,  he's gone after a number of what he considers left indulgences and he often makes fun of his own audience.

Comedians have been known to  cut corners in relation to the subtleties of an argument to make a bigger point. He is probably guilty of that in this case. Now where's my chocolate.

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

No, that's a silly video for the peanut gallery, the vast majority of whom love to hear any rationalization for continuing the path to obesity. Kinda like throwing peanuts to monkeys, except he's getting paid handsomely to do so. 

It rests on pretending to disprove the (false) assumption that better diet or exercise guarantees longevity. No one's immune to bad luck, effects of previous risky behavior, genetic disorders, or conditions undiagnosed perhaps through willful neglect. Fixx is a textbook example of two of these.

But when not being witlessly cheered on as he makes his way to the bank, what does Maher himself do? Oh, strict diet and exercise. ???? WOT??? Why's that?

I have a trainer I see twice a week for formal weightlifting training, which I think is really important
I also have a stationary bike at home for days that I don’t go to the trainer. I like to sweat every day.

I got my diet in order 10 or 12 years ago. Before that I tried to eat well but don’t think I knew what I was doing. I always make a giant glass of fresh vegetables [juiced] every day. I haven’t had fast food in 15 years. If I’m out to dinner and someone gets dessert, I might have one bite because it satisfies that desire. In general, sugar is the enemy. 
--https://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-5q-maher-20140906-story.html

Maher himself writes the intro to entire book such as written by the dead authors he sneers at for the peanut gallery:
 

The Fountain: A Doctor's Prescription to Make 60 the New 30

Let's try to avoid being so gullible. 

I like your posts because you go there. But sometimes I think you miss some subtleties in the argument. You seem to be saying that he is making fun of recommendations for a healthy lifestyle but then secretly having a healthy lifestyle. That's just not correct.

I pointed out in my post that he has constantly advocated a healthy diet as an important part of being prepared for covid.  In general he often discusses the importance of a healthy diet and lifestyle. 

In the video many of the books referenced are what I would call fad or fashionable diets or exercise - big selling books that don't necessarily show simple easy to follow healthy diets.

He is making the point that these books that were huge sellers are not necessarily the panacea needed. It is a comment on the fad not the benefits of a healthy lifestyle. 

Having said that there is an inference in the video that slavishly following a particular diet and exercise regime may not be all that - and that having a relaxed life and  lifestyle without thinking too much can have its own benefits. 

On 3/9/2021 at 1:19 AM, sanuk711 said:

That's a good video.

Bill's big thing during the coronavirus has been that Dr Fauci and others should tell it like it is - that being overweight is a huge risk factor. He is constantly saying that, as well as wearing masks and such, there should be a campaign saying that people can decrease their risks by prioritising health and diet. So though he is cynical about miracle diets he's pretty serious about the individual's responsibility for their diet.

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nature doesn't agree with you, IMO. Carnivores eat vegetarians in nature.

I suppose the idea is that we have been blessed with intelligence and insight to the nature of things and we can choose to live and let live. Buddhism might say a tiger is less evolved on the kharmic road. Maybe we should know better. 

By posting on this topic we are likely to have considered the moral issues of eating meat, or of buying products from companies that  run sweatshops, or limiting our effect in creating green house gasses, or of not helping our fellow man.

You can go one way and just say ''I am looking out for No 1'' or you can give yourself fully to helping the world and others.

Most of us struggle along in the middle - justifying our meat eating, or our purchases, or how we treat others. Feeling guilt from time to time. Trying to believe we are good people.  

I was riding in Lombok Indonesia. Thought I had DONE the hard part in the dirt roads in the south west but going back to the hotel on the main road a truck came towards me and came right over to my side of the road. Came off the bike but was not going that fast. Two ladies picked me up, put some antiseptic and a bandage on my leg, and sent me on my way. Don't think I had insurance in those days. A bit silly. 

1 hour ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

alcohol is a truly addictive substance that leads to the debilitating condition known as alcoholism and potential death from alcohol poisoning, liver failure, heart failure, respiratory arrest

 

to bring into perspective:

 

Good point and I concur. I am not meaning to go all Reefer Madness in my posts.  Just from my personal experience of friends and others over the years - I have seen most take it and it has no ill effects except bloodshot eyes but others became a bit lost, disconnected and one guy had strong paranoia. You could argue that those people had issues from the start, and I hung out with two many unemployed and bohemian types,  but that could be the point. Overall marijuana is a much safer drug with little addiction but for a small percentage of the population beer is fine in moderation, whereas marijuana is a really strong drug, that can play with their minds and have a negative effect on their lives.

I'd hate to see Thai youth thinking it is the same as having the odd beer. 

26 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Pro-tip: Next time don't smoke before posting.

 

 

Funny guy. Just google it. Then come back and tell me which part is false. Just saying that in 2020 it is a powerful drug that can have a negative effect on a small but significant part of the population.