Morch

So, there's no electricity and fuel, but yet Hamas manages to launch rockets. Fancy that. And all them Hamas guys, in their cozy tunnels - maybe they are using candles, and not taking deep breaths either. There were alarms raised about supplies of everything running out in two days, three days, whatever - pretty much since the war started. As far as I'm aware, conditions are bad - but no deaths from starvation etc. And before you start with your virtue signaling - I'm not arguing that people down there do no suffer. I know they do. What I'm doing here is pointing a false narrative. You may, of course, resort to your usual I-don't-believe-it, deflect or whatever.

Yes. And guess in which conflict they are highlighted the most....?

Funny, how I could answer your post after the disgusting comments made. Guess we'll add this one to the list of your usual cop outs, eh?

You're welcome to offer a viable better way. Could star with not distorting what posters said, of make up stuff about what they think and feel.

Yawn. Israel Bad, Bad, Bad.... Again with that Palestinians have nothing to do with anything approach?

The Arab Peace Initiative was actually accepted (under some political duress) by the PA. Hamas was evasive, but essentially rejected it. Doesn't matter much what the PA says if they cannot come to terms with the Hamas or garner enough support to make it irrelevant. Israel rejected the proposal. There weren't 'numerous' Israeli two-state solutions made, but it is true that they were rejected, or not responded to. One could argue that the Israeli governments in question could not have delivered, but that cuts both ways. A single state is a none-starter to anyone who looks over the fence to Lebanon, or further afield, Iraq. Doesn't work in the ME. People aren't quite 'there' yet to allow for this to happen. And no, I do not think most Israelis actually support a two-state solution. There was never a clear majority for this (as far as I recall), and support in the notion eroded over time. The Hamas raid didn't do this any favors.

You 'imagine' too much and too freely. There are significant elements in both societies which can be labled as nationalistic, zealots, racists, and so on. They are not some fringe groups (those are even worse...), but enjoy wide popular support. So instead of ignoring that, and assuming that people want what you want them to want - maybe address their actual attitudes.

What you offer as a sort of interim solution is a return to the previous paradigm. The one that just failed. You expect Israel to restore electricity, water and other supplies to the Gaza Strip - but offer no viable way these would not benefit Hamas. You try and minimize the risks involved. Basically, Israel gives, Hamas does not. And no, the hostages do not count as Hamas giving anything. They should be released unconditionally (civilians, at the very least). As for the rest - do you see much motivation now, in Israel or among Palestinians to come to a conclusive agreement? To hold talks? Who would represent the Palestinians? What can they deliver without Hamas's consent? What is this 'backing of Palestinian civilians'? How do you asses that? How would a political party 'emerge'? Why would it be acceptable to people who support Hamas ideology and policies? It's ok to fantasize, but glossing over facts and reality won't solve anything.

Happy to oblige. Now run along and see what's new on Al Jazeera.

Disregarding your 'apartheid' obsession - what you claim would imply that the Palestinians are not/were not focused so much on independence, having a state, self rule, sovereignty and all that. If they were that content, how come terrorist actions etc. were going on? How come the did not pursue Egypt's promise to hand over Gaza to the PLO? As for your disgusting personal remarks - I have posted often that Israel's actions and policy in the West Bank are wrong. And that you could claim even make your 'apartheid' claims stick as far as that goes. But since your commentary seems to expand that to the entire country (including the Gaza Strip) we'll have to disagree. I'm not of the position that Israel's policies are great, always just or whatever. The Israelis do not claim a two-state solution. That's one of the problems. Most right wing governments were never for it, and even under centrist-left wing ones, it's not a granted proposition. Then again, it's not as if the Palestinians are exactly ready and willing, are they? You're asking me to defend things I'm objecting to as well, not sure what your point is. I concur that the illegal settlement effort is a huge hurdle for any solution. Never said otherwise. It's just that I'm not accepting Israel is solely responsible for how complex this has become. Some people seem to have a fit when it's opined that the Palestinians should be held accountable for their own mistakes, wrong actions and choices. You may now apologize.

Alas, international laws regulating such things are less straightforward than what some imagine. It's fine wishing they were different, more in lines with ideals etc. but it is what it is. I don't care one bit about your nationality, or your religious beliefs. I do not believe that either is central to posting on this forum. I'm reacting to words people right, ideas they bring forth, not to which passports they hold, who they pray to, or what flag they wave. Zealot how? Did I call for the utter destruction of the Gaza Strip? Butchering all Palestinians? Mass expulsions to the Sinai Peninsula? No. None of that. You're welcome to look up any of the many posts recently made regarding Netanyahu - not a fan. Am I a great defender of Israel's illegal settlements effort in the West Bank? Other Israeli actions there? Quite the opposite. And yeah, I don't do emo much. Not on online forums anyway. Sorry if it bothers you I'm not a drama queen, or a rager. What I detect coming from you is a lot of waffle, and an extra dose of virtue signaling. Not much interest in either. It was explained, over and over again how your choice source of information is problematic with regard to current events. You have no answer to this other than repeating irrelevant deflections.

There's currently a war going on, unless you missed that. Previous comments were about the state of things up to now. Nice deflection. But even so, inaccurate. Egypt got no desire to get involved, or to deal with refugees or to strengthen Hamas. Hamas did not try to bring in any aid whatsoever - that's a false narrative.

Yawn. Created is one thing, and of a different magnitude. What you claim now was not denied. It was more of a right-wing thing, though, have to be said. Yawn again. How is it a 'prison' controlled by Israel if Egypt can unlock it at any time? How is it a 'prison' if the restrictions can be removed by Hamas adopting a new policy? It's a matter of choices. Israel chooses not to commit suicide and have an open border with a neighbor like Hamas (and not to grant it free access to terrorism related stuff), Egypt chooses not to have a branch of the MB on its turf (and not to be saddled with refugees), Hamas chooses to go on with a futile armed 'struggle'. You only seem to have an issue with Israel's choice.

Doesn't have to do anything with your persistent badgering of posters about not using their real names. It does however, seems very unlikely, to anyone who spent time in the ME, not to have run across antisemitism, or Zionist/Jew being used for the same thing. Then again, I suppose it's might be a question of what you talk to people about, in what language and under which circumstances. But all n' all - no, don't buy what you're selling. Sure, not all Arabs/Muslims are invested in this, but claiming 10 years with no sign of this is....mildly amusing.

Is Hamas into negotiations? Compromise?

Doesn't have to be. They can get everything they need from Egypt. And maybe things would not be so bad down there had Hamas chosen a different path.

I believe you. Not.

Hard to tell, so much irrelevant nonsense in it. Doubt you had a clear argument in mind.

No, you're pushing a misleading narrative. Israel did not create Hamas. That it later on tried to use it as counterweight for the PA (for political reasons) is another matter. Again with the prison nonsense? It wasn't always under blockade, it wasn't always under such restrictions - these had 'something' to do with Hamas actions and policies. You continue to ignore this because you cannot counter it with anything. Israel will never be 'accepted' by whom?

You do realize that prior to 1967, both areas marked as 'Palestinian' were under Egyptian and Jordanian rule, right? Jordan even annexed the West Bank. The Palestinians did not react strongly to either country's actions. That aside, Israel obviously made mistakes, big ones - by maintaining the ongoing military occupation, and worse, pushing the illegal settlement effort. But it is not like the Palestinians were ready and willing to make peace or even concession until a long time after 1967 either. It's fine to lay all of the blame on Israel's shoulders, but it's not an accurate description of reality. At least to a degree, the Palestinian should be held accountable, or at least acknowledge their own mistakes, bad choices and so on. There's a parallel topic dealing more specifically with West Bank related issues, btw - maybe more fitting to discuss these issues there. For the record, my view is that most of what Israel does in the West Bank is wrong and illegal, but not so when it comes to the Gaza Strip.

Did Hamas ask for international aid? Did Hamas ask for a ceasefire?

There's plenty of information out there. If you think it's all untrustworthy, all propaganda, than stay in the warm safety of Al Jazeera echo chamber. By all means. Your second comment is incorrect. There is no such blanket restriction.

Bah, this was in response to JT post about Chinese Jews. Mouse is a mess . To (try and) bring it back on topic.... Noa Argamani's parents sought help from the Chinese embassy https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/rk4hiyq11t

What does that bogus comment have to do with anything?

Israel ground forces raid Hamas sites in Gaza, withdraw - military statement https://news.yahoo.com/israel-ground-forces-raid-hamas-051054313.html