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@Brickleberry So that small protest, which happened after Gaza faced all this destruction - that's what 'proves' your 70% bit? How, exactly? There were far more people celebrating the Hamas attack on the streets of Gaza on 7/10. You can wait, I never said anything about providing you any polls - just something you made up and continue to lie about.

Yeah, that would make millions. Hundreds out of two millions still isn't much. Can't wait to see how the 'point' above seats with the 'genocide' claims....

@Brickleberry You're just deflecting by saying 'no substance'. That's not true. I did not say anything about digging up polls for you. I mentioned that they were linked and discussed earlier on these topics. Said specifically that I'm not about to bother on your behalf. You want to argue that such weren't linked? That they weren't discussed? Good luck with that. Not everything needs to be rehashed every time a new troll comes along. You said it's the only poll you could find. Considering that there are several regular polls taken on matter Palestinians, some on a monthly basis, this is an odd comment. As for the nonsense about some other poster and him moving to another topic of discussion - what does that have to do with anything?

@Brickleberry Would it be the first time in history people opposed an armed regime? A government? An army? You're just making excuses. The protests you cited were minuscule and mute relative to the poll figures you hyped. My post said specifically - forget about 'take down'. Just a sheer expression of 70% support should be enough to give any regime a pause. Never happened. As for the Israeli protests - the war kinda curtailed that, but it was going strong. Hopefully one 'benefit' of this war would be Netanyahu out of office. You have nothing.

@Neeranam Again, reading comprehension issues. Poster I was replying to was discussing things prior to 7/10. What you posted actually supports my position - that such poll figures shift, and sentiments may shift easily.

@Brickleberry Never happened, you say? With 70% support? Forget about 'take down'. How about some heavy duty mass protests? Just across the border, for the 9 months before the war, Israelis managed ongoing anti-government protests. Support was less than 70%.

@Brickleberry It's relevant in that it demonstrates how figures, support and positions can swiftly change. If you think that's the only instance that this happened over 18 years - that's up to you.

Are you seriously suggesting that's what I said?

@Brickleberry Like the rest of the wannabe 'pro-palestinian' posters - when can't deal with things, chop the post. You implied that the poll you linked was the only one you 'can find' - this. It's nonsense. This was something debated heatedly much earlier on, with all sorts of polls linked. You claim there is but one poll? Whatever. As for making things up - I did not say I do not believe them, I said there are many polls and that they show different things, and can be analyzed/interpreted in different ways. I did not say 'I would find' - I pointed out to the fact such were linked. I'm not going to dig through them on your behalf, considering you tend to disregard facts anyway, or move the goalposts. Again, was the sentiment described in the poll you cited have any actual relevant manifestation? I don't think so.

@Brickleberry The mother is a hostage as well. So is the father. And the brother. Grandparents murdered. Oh, it's a bit 'disingenuous'? It's 'off topic'? Like half of what you post on here is not? Them 'right of return' protests are more on topic? Your nonsense 'ignore' declarations? Yeah...let's not talk about the hostages. Easier. You care deeply. Whatever. Far more likely? How would you know that? Are they alive? Were they killed right away? Talk about 'unbelievable'.

@Brickleberry The way you keep harping on it, one might think that some revolution or coup was in the making. In effect, Hamas is solidly in place for many years now, despite several rounds of fighting, a whole lot of Palestinian death, destruction, poverty and oppression. On 6/10, a whole lot of Palestinians from Gaza crossed over to Israel on Hamas's heels, and partook in that orgy of murder, rape, destruction etc. Other crowds were celebrating things in the Gaza Strip - giving a 'warm' welcome to the hostages brought in. There was no serious effort by Gazans to oust Hamas. THAT's a fact. Y

@Brickleberry Well 'impossible' doesn't seem to be it, since you keep 'discussing' things. I do not make things up, you simply have a habit of posting rubbish and then having a rough time waffling. Israel does not bomb every building because Hamas pops out. That's kinda rich coming from someone who complains about making things up. As for that 'piddy little rifle' - that would be you trying to minimize Hamas again - kinda awkward considering they managed a rather successful ambush just a few days ago, resulting in over 20 IDF soldiers dead. Your references to these bombs being used referenced only one semi-credible option: tunnels. Israel does not simply blow all buildings around for the sake of it (that wouldn't even make military sense), nor does it throw a bomb like that on every Hamas guy sticking his head out. So these two were ignored as being bogus - which they are. What you allege as Israel's motivation is not supported by anything much other than opinion. As for the warnings, you don't get it - from a purely military point of view, warning are abhorrent. But the way things are, what with international law, PR and civilians in combat zones, there's little choice. A USA official actually said that he doubts whether the USA military would have taken the same steps. The point is not to let Hamas return and retake positions, deny them the ability to flank troops from the rear or sides via tunnels, to destroy booby-trapped buildings, facilities and caches. You see only what your ideological bent allows, I'm dealing with how a military operates. What, exactly, is 'unbelievable' about my last point? If anything, that would be the most solid one.

@Brickleberry Hamas is one of the two largest parties/organizations in Palestinian lives. You are trying to paint it as being something more detached. It simply isn't. There was no claim that they represent, or that they are all the Palestinian people. But a significant part of? Of course. As for Hamas's designation as a terrorist group, have a ball: Terrorist designation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Terrorist_designation (note that post 7/10 there were further moves to designate Hamas as such, or to widen the scope of designations, these things take time). I don't give a hoot about what you can find, or pretend to find. The fact stands that there were times Hamas was popular and times when it wasn't. It didn't win that elections back when for being shunned, it didn't remain an issue for the PA in the West Bank if it had no popular backing. Palestinian positions not being fixed is not a matter of discussion, it's how things are everywhere. Plus you can look up the older topics if you 'really care', not going to spend energy on trolls.

I don't see you as 'caring' that much, but as obsessed with bashing Israel on every opportunity. This is not about 'every little detail' - there are multiple posts in which you are presenting wrong facts, insisting on them and so on. I just gave a few recent examples, this goes back to when you started posting on these topics. As I recall, I even make a comment about it being a 'trend' (in reply to one of your 'apologies' about being wrong). Hamas was not a side to this legal process anyway. Again, the court made it clear how it felt about Hamas's actions - you try to minimize it.

Jerusalem's status is not universally accepted. Most Embassies in Israel are located in Tel Aviv.

@Brickleberry Your comment was about 70% of the Gazans not happy with Hamas rule. I asked you if there were any protests or something of the sort regarding that. You came back with a waffle about these 'right of return' protests. There was no 'right of return' agreed upon in the Oslo Accords, nor in any of the other agreements after that. At most, it was discussed as a symbolic thing with very limited numbers of returnees involved. Arafat declined what, exactly? The Oslo Accords were signed. The 'right of return' per se (not the mini-version mentioned above) is not about peace, but about turning Israel into Palestine. You have no notion of what it implies, what it entails. You're just copy pasting headlines, memes while being out of touch with how these communities 'work' or interact. About the protests - you have no idea what you're talking about. The original idea came from one group of students/activists which weren't Hamas affiliated, and that got traction with other similar groups. They were led, or guided or whatever by several people who had some inkling (through more open minds, through the benefit of education outside the strip) and framed this according to Western notions, or rather - what would play well in the West. Hamas initially opposed this, the way it comes down on any suspected political opposition. Then someone with half a brain got the notion of co-opting the effort, and before you know it - budgets, facilities, services and whatnot. Plus Hamas representatives on planning groups, and later Hamas men simply taking over and that was that. All this - second hand information, from one of the people involved. Not exactly a friend (differences being what they are), but someone who could argue more reasonably than most of you wannabes. Presumed dead now, by the way. Tried to evacuate to the south with the wife and the kids. Stopped to take a dump, rockets launched from nearby, Israeli airstrike following and that was that. The protests were designed and planned as peaceful, describing them as such in the face of evidence is a choice. In reality they weren't. There was much lamenting of what this has become at the time. Also it was one of them times when I was actually in Israel, and scored me a tour to the border with a reporter group. I was near enough to get a rather clear idea of things, thanks - no need for you 'explanations'. What you're citing is the goals as set down by the original organizers. As far as I know, all but one have nothing to do with Hamas to this day. Betrayed, hijacked, stabbed in the back and so forth were common comments during and afterwards. There was nothing about storming the fences, nothing about IED's, nothing about urging people to rush at the border. This was all Hamas stuff. Now kindly, address my question regarding protests or any significant political/social actions in line with the poll figures you tout.

@ozimoron The court did not order Israel to stop.

@Brickleberry Shifting the goalposts? Unsurprising. Your comment was about them warnings. Not you move on to other things, because obviously that was a daft complaint if there ever was one. Hamas are not just in the tunnels. That's something you say, but is not true. You assume all bombs were used to attack tunnels - I don't know if that's a fact or not. Taking out a building that was booby-trapped (a whole lot of these), collapsing a building to seal a tunnel entrance, clearing a path to tanks - there are many other reasons to use them. Israel can carry out super-targeted strikes on some occasions - when the intelligence is available, and the condition apply. There were some of these in the Gaza Strip as well (linked on these topics courtesy of @Bkk Brian - the one with the cat avatar). Mostly the conditions are not the same. If they were, I'm sure Israel would go for that - much better all around. If and when war breakes out with Hezbollah, you'll see the same issue - as they have their own tunnel network.

I believe you're framing things to fit your argument, rather than faithfully describing posters' positions.

They are not 'your' results, they are results you picked up from the net. And there were plenty of those posted on earlier topics - enough to support almost any position, with the right spin. Nothing original. Again, you fail to bridge the gap between them results and the lack of any of these sentiments materializing.

for all your obfuscation - the ICJ saw fit to reference the hostage situation. What does that tell you?

@Brickleberry No, this is not my reasoning, this is you spewing some irrelevant analogy. Already opined on what these are worth in this context. The point made was that some of you are trying to paint the Hamas as being non-Palestinian, a separate entity, something that doesn't have to do with or reflects on Palestinians. This is beyond bizarre. We're talking about a movement which (depending on which poll and date) is either the first or second largest in Palestinian politics. Then you've got all the social projects which run deep, and the military wing. You can make distinctions between the PA and Hamas. Or claim that many Palestinians do or do not support Hamas (fully or partially etc.), but what you're trying to do is a step further - and it does not hold. Again, there was nothing said about all Palestinians, there wasn't even something said about all Hamas members (of which many are not military wing). By the way, Hamas itself does not practice these distinctions - certainly not with regard to casualty figures. All are presented as Palestinian civilians.

So it came later, what of it? It was a stupid decision, which did nothing for USA interests.

@Brickleberry There were two instances of that, on different grounds, and with somewhat different emphasis. I have touched on the other in a reply to another post above.

@Brickleberry I was referring to protests against against Hamas, which you claim was extremely unpopular. But as for the protests (which yeah, I do have/had an inside track on) you are wrong. They were not about acknowledging Israel as per a two-state solution. They were about 'the right of return' - which de-facto implies an end to Israel. As for protests being 'peaceful' try selling it to someone who doesn't have a clue. They were indeed planned as such, but nothing much but the slogans remained after Hamas took over the operation. Again, nothing to do with what you initially posted about, nothing to do with my comment.