The Cipher

28 minutes ago, Albert Zweistein said:

Sponsored by..............................?

Nobody? It actually is possible to not be negative about every single thing related to Thailand, you know.

However if you do happen to know where I can receive sponsorship for my posts feel free to direct me that way ????.

6 hours ago, wolf81 said:

Apart from the land ownership possibility, I think the deal is a bit crappy. Other countries give a permanent citizenship or even passport (valid for life) for this or less money: https://www.goldenvisas.com/country

But that's not true tho. Based on the text in the original article, groups 3-4 definitely have a path to this visa for materially zero outlay. Group 2 might also have a path for zero investment, but the text is less clear. I agree that in general a passport is the gold star, but 10 years for minimal cost is pretty darn good.

Adding to that, every country at your Golden Visas link is outside Asia, which is fairly significant.

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As a general statement just reading the negative responses on this thread it's obvious that a lot of the pessimists don't understand how capital and/or talent will evaluate these options, or they are just finding reasons to vocalize that they want the program to fail.

I closed this thread but reopened it just to say that the more I think about it, the more I think that these visas are a good deal.

Groups 2 and 3 especially seem to offer great value. Group 1's not bad either.

If you guys genuinely don't think that there will be takers for these, I kinda think you just might not be the target demographic. Based on what's been revealed so far, these are pretty attractive.

You know based on the criteria outlined in the article, this looks like a pretty good visa option. 10 year validity with no annoying reporting and revenue outside Thailand exempted from taxation? Nice! I really think I'll apply for this.

I still think that letting foreigners own land is a mistake, but if they insist then I guess it would be a shame not to oblige them.

Want to spur auto sales? Remove the import taxes and duties on foreign-made autos.

At least one additional person would transact if that happened (and it would be me ????).

12 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

and your point is? 

The world has still changed, 

International travel will remain more expensive, countries restricting entry, more vaccinations required, there is a new "normal" ,

You're right. If I had any point at all, it was to show the degree to which we've overreacted (surgery on a paper cut).

However I don't expect a lot of things to go back to the way they were, although I do expect the travel situation and prices to eventually normalize. For better or worse post-Covid will be different than pre-Covid in a lot of ways, I agree.

28 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Spanish flu deaths estimate 50 million 

Covid so far estimate 4.5 million deaths cases estimate 219 million

Duration of Spanish Flu in years: Approximately 2 years. (1918-1920)

Number of Spanish Flu deaths: 50 million (using OP's number, no fact check)

World Population 1920: Approximately 1.9B. (UN Estimate)

Percentage of Global Pop Killed: ~2.6%.

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Duration of Covid-19 Pandemic in years: Approximately 2 years (2020-2022)

Number of Covid-19 deaths: 4.55 million (number on Google as of today)

World Population 2021: Approximately 7.8B.

Percentage of Global Pop killed: ~0.06%

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Math is math. ????‍♂️

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Get Covid, take an pill and 2-3 days later you're OK with no hospital visit necessary. 

So kinda pretty much exactly the same as now, except you would also take a pill for some reason.

Just kidding-ish. A genuine cure for Covid would be a positive development.

18 minutes ago, BobinBKK said:

This would be the American governments doing and not it's citizens. If truth be told, the vast majority of American tax payers (including myself) don't support the governments BS around the world. We hate them more than you do!!!

I don't hate the American government. I don't hate the Chinese government either. They're just playing the game. If they don't play it someone else will, I guess.

But you raise a good point that it isn't fair to blame a government's actions on its citizens. The average American isn't responsible for US adventuring in the Middle East any more than the average Chinese person is responsible for China's actions in the South China Sea. And it's important to remember that. For better or worse, most of us are just along for the ride.

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

The U.S. has always been the bully, historically.

Most assuredly, they aren't sainted by any means.

For decades upon decades, the most destructive, disconnected and evil force on the planet. 

(Most) countries don't think in terms of good and evil. And certainly not the great power countries of the world. They think in terms of national interest and then do what it takes to advance those goals.

As you've correctly said the US throughout history has certainly been no saint. But they've done a great job at controlling the narrative (Hollywood + ubiquitousness of American news outlets worldwide) and have successfully created an American mythos that a lot of people have bought into.

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

While the Thai pay for the infrastructure which you enjoy? Seems a little lopsided

No idea. I just see that the government is interested in attracting talent/capital and that the forum consensus - which I disagree with - seems to be that nobody of talent or means would ever come to Thailand.

But every single person I know worth $10M or more (I work in an industry where I have to meet these guys) that has relocated either themselves or their businesses in the past five years has done so specifically to decrease tax burden. Would the government be right to offer the tax incentive? Maybe, maybe not. But if it was offered, I bet some bigger fish would come.

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not a problem for most of Thailand's 69+ million inhabitants, and they are what is important, no?

Yeah, you're absolutely right. My comment was tongue in cheek, but the censorship of '????ffing' made it sound more serious than how I meant it.

I just take the tax as motivation to get my net worth high enough that the tax irrelevant. "฿18M for an AMG GT? Whatevs."

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FoH, no way. Just marry a decent Thai woman put the property in her name, later in your children's name.

Some interesting financial advice here. Not sure what could possibly go wrong.

3 hours ago, arick said:

This country is just a bum cloth 

And do you uh, live on this bum cloth? And if so, why?

9 hours ago, Black Ops said:

A simple topic where someone asks for advice or whatever and responses are mostly ridicule, insulting, accusing the OP of lying, is saying "x", is not sayingyx", has a hidden agenda,, or is being paid to post, and more.

 

The autopsy of every word or looking for hidden meaning is just bizarre

What happened here and why is everything seemingly totally over analyzed and disected like that ?

My hypothesis is that this board, in general, is a refuge for older people who increasingly feel out of touch with Thailand and the wider world, but nevertheless are sensitive that they've lost standing in each of them.

And so it's easy to go onto the internet to vent, or be belittling or petty, because just for that instant it restores a sense of status that otherwise felt lost. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

9 hours ago, Boarn said:

I have no idea what attracts people to Thailand now, if you've moved recently, why? I would genuinely like to know!

I came in December of 2020 and began to build out a second-home in Bangkok. Had lived/worked in various Asian cities in the past. I chose Bangkok because it has grown into a developed enough metropolis to have the amenities and offerings that I want, and the value proposition - my lifestyle per dollar spent - was really good.

It's also a central hub to places that I want to visit often and/or explore. Four hours or less flying to Southeast Asia and Taiwan/Hong Kong, and under six hours to Korea/Japan.

I also appreciate that I'm more free to just be myself here than in Canada - my other home - where folks are always subtly trying to enforce 'Canadian values.'

One of the interesting things I've noticed from spending some time on this board is that some of the things that attracted me to the city are the same things longtime residents dislike. I haven't quite worked through the implications of that observation, but there might be an interesting takeaway there.

I'm also frequently surprised to see comments about Bangkok becoming expensive, when I still see it as very good value relative to what else is out there in the world.

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7. Fun cars are too expensive.

This is bang on tho. The <deleted> import tax is some bs. If you want to protect your domestic industry like, ok, but then could you at least build something domestically that isn't a lame econobox or pickup truck?

10 minutes ago, HandsomeTallFarang said:

Look how well Afghanistan turned out when we tried to bring democracy...there. Some places are just not ready for it.

Real talk, the USA itself isn't ready for democracy ????.

Not just an American problem tho, it's a failing system in a lot of places these days.

1 hour ago, kiwikeith said:

What happened in NZ was the Chinese went mad and started buying up properties at large, finances were flowing in from Chinese banks, new immigrants were being given money to purchase in underground deals, property prices went ballistic, when I was selling my house in Auckland about 200 Chinese came through, properties were selling overnight.

Then the milk powder industry became under threat NZ's biggest export, the Chinese were buying up Dairy farms and opening their own milk powder factories.

Then in stepped the government --- to late. The horse had bolted , properties never went down foreign ownership laws changed but it was to late, the property market in NZ and Australia, the USA and Canada are still going up, now Covid has caused people to get out of city apartments and head for stand alone property away from the city a bit.

Yes, that's my point. As we've seen elsewhere - if gov were to just throw open the gates, a flood of new capital would move prices out of reach of many locals and, bluntly, out of reach of many of the foreign retirees also.

You could end up with a system where real estate assets trade based on factors that aren't related to the earning power of locals, and would have basically priced your own population out of the market. Probably not ideal.

37 minutes ago, Gold Star said:

I think it should be a reciprocal agreement. 

 

If your country of citizenship allows Thais to purchase land there, then you should be allowed to own land here.

 

That would take care of the Chinese takeover and expansionist problem, and open it up for the rest of us simply wanting to own a house. 

I'm not sure how much this would help, really. Especially in Bangkok.

There's still considerable risk that international capital would immediately bid up prime lots in central Bangkok, which would then have knock-on effects on the rest of the metropolitan area. Unless they desperately need to raise cash quick, I don't see why the gov would do this. A disjunction in housing prices from income levels is not worth the risk.

4 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

There are a lot of countries I know that allow ownership of land for foreigners and none of them has ever suffered from this afaik ...

Well you know, except the countries contain cities like Hong Kong, London, Vancouver, Sydney, Toronto, Auckland...

This needs to be handled with great care if it's allowed to move forward at all. I realize that the ability to own the land they live on is appealing to certain types of foreigner who have made lives in the country, but freely throwing open the gates to international capital would probably be a serious mistake.

You'd be introducing sharks into a pond of minnows, and most ordinary Thais - and long-stay foreigners as well - could feel wide-reaching negative consequences from that.

15 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I want Thailand to be at the forefront of educational research and innovation.   When I get back I will be pushing this.

How would you advance that agenda? I think education reform is needed and a very noble goal, but it's such a monumental task.

I'm not even sure the government would know how to go about it if they ever really wanted to - plenty of Western systems have already failed at overhauling education for the modern world.