The Cipher

Ah <deleted> it. I'm gonna do it.
 

On 11/2/2021 at 4:12 PM, Orinoco said:

[removed]

It's ok to disagree with what someone else has written, but try and do so articulately or at least wittily.

25 minutes ago, Pravda said:

People from Hong Kong also find Vancouver a great real estate value. 

Sure, I take your point. Value is definitely relative to an individual's perspective.

And from my perspective at least, I really do think Bangkok offers good value as a second home base.

Vibrant city, lots of things to do, diversity and quality of many of the amenities exceeds Vancouver, and all of that for what I consider to be excellent value relative to the other cities that I'd considered as a second home (Hong Kong, Seoul, Singapore). Sometimes I wonder if the different perspectives on Thailand here are just largely due to differences in personalities and lifestyle preferences.

36 minutes ago, Pravda said:

39 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Can you find me a 3 bedroom detached house (good neighbourhood only, (not next door to a crack house) in the UK for 2Mbht?

 

I can in Canada.

Which part of Canada are you from? As a Vancouverite one of the things that I've always found best about Bangkok was the great real estate value.

Even if i just considered a simple rent-to-rent comparison, the same amount of money would get me hilariously more in BKK than YVR.

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

I'm 48 which in Thai handsome Farang years is about 19.

You've still got almost a couple decades on me, heh. But glad to hear you're still spry!

I generally disagree with a lot of the opinions on here, but it's nevertheless been really interesting learning from the lives you've all lived. Like an interactive window into a world I don't usually get to see.

6 minutes ago, PizzaBoi said:

You have absolutely no idea about my work, savings or property situation in the UK, or what I do or do not own. In fact you know absolutely nothing about my financial situation at all.

Don't let boos from the cheap seats get you down. It's just a bunch of bitter old guys lol.

For what it's worth, I generally agree with your assessment of Thailand. The value for money you receive there is very strong. I've started splitting time between Vancouver and Bangkok and try and live equivalently-fun lives in each.

Value in Bangkok is way better. Just have to adapt parts of your life/routine to maximize the relative advantages of the location you're in.

29 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

What you have here is 5 star based on very low requirements modified to Thai standards.

Absolutely not to be compared with international 5 star standards for hotels.

I apologize for being blunt about this, but you're wrong.

There are some spectacular properties in Thailand and they're up there with anything you'd expect to find internationally. Many have prices to match, which could explain why they're relatively less explored in the mass market.

I specialize in hospitality and casino investments as a day job, so I hope I'd know what I'm talking about here.

Nice to see a rare positive take on here. Thanks for sharing.

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

"I actually don't really care if vaccines are made mandatory. It doesn't affect me at all."

You sure about that? What if you or someone in your family needs emergency treatment at a hospital but can't get it because the unvaccinated have made ICU beds unavailable?

I shudder to write this to a normie audience but...I would handle it like a man. The same way I handle everything else in my life.

And if, despite my best efforts the outcome was unfavorable to me, I like to think I'd have the wisdom and composure to place my loss in the context of the wider interest of society. I've said this multiple times, but I'm comfortable with the nature of this game of life in which we are all participants. I am aware that this is an exceedingly rare outlook in today's society.

It strikes me that our current situation is due as much to a lack of courage as anything else. So many people are scared of the virus despite its exceedingly low morality rate, and so many more are frightened of the vaccines despite their even lower mortality rates. When did we become a society of people frightened of a 99%+ survival rate in vaccinated populations, or the 99.9% survival rate of the vaccines themselves? Our leaders have neither the courage to truly reopen, nor the courage to mandate vaccination if that is indeed a tacit requirement for full reopening.

This comment is aimed at nobody and no 'side' in particular. But I am deeply deeply disappointed about what the Covid crisis in general has revealed about so many of the people who inhabit this world with me.

13 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Your missing the point.  The unvaccinated are causing this pandemic to extend.  If they were vaccinated, we'd be close to being done!  And yes, many of us care about their lives, even if they don't.  But we care about ours and our loved ones more.  That way they need to get vaccinated.  That's the recommendation of EVERY credible doctor and scientist. 

I'd call blaming the news for the problems we're having with covid constitutes a conspiracy theory. LOL

Respectfully, I'm pretty sure it isn't me that's missing the point here.

Basically my point is that there is more than one viable path forward in dealing with the pandemic. And the optimal path isn't necessarily the one that minimizes deaths. That last sentence is uncomfortable for many people to accept but is critical to understanding the case I'm making.

I think people should get vaccinated too. I've said as much many times. But if they don't, I don't see any reason to continue holding up society for them (or anyone). The risk of Covid to the integrity our overall societies is miniscule at this point. At what level of risk or vaccine saturation would it be acceptable to drop all restrictions? This question needs to be answered to avoid an ever-moving target. "60% vaccination, no 70%, actually 80%, in fact - let's just keep restrictions in place until we've hunted down the last hermit and shoved a needle in their arm." If you understand the risk/reward tradeoff on a societal level, you will understand why I am so against continued restrictions despite being broadly supportive of vaccination.

Also - regarding the media, I'm not blaming the news for the problems that we're having so much as I am the general public's poor data comprehension skills (as evidenced by the fact that we are having this conversation). Think about it like this. Every night for almost two years now the news has been steady blasting case counts and death counts as numbers devoid of context. 100 new cases, 1000 new cases, one million total deaths. But what do those numbers actually mean? The context is critical. I'm going to repeat that. The context is critical.

I'll spare you a whole data science lesson, but basically - when it comes to populations that number in the billions and an event that happens over time, it's helpful to understand numbers by thinking in percentages and trends. Unfortunately this isn't something that gen pub really seems to understand, and our media orgs and politicians made absolutely no effort to aid in that understanding. I don't think there was any behind the scenes grand plan for this. I just think that it was simply in the interest of media businesses (record eyeballs) and politicians (perceived low death counts are a political opportunity and perceived high death counts are political suicide) to not take the difficult but more optimal path and explain the context of these numbers to the populations that they supposedly serve.

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

Lot of ignorance about motor cars and a lot of bigotry aimed at Chinese and Japanese

Yeah lol. It's pretty obvious a lot of posters (1) aren't car guys; and (2) are relatively clueless about manufacturing trends in general.

Auto supply chains are so complex now, especially for newer cars. I'd wager that pretty much every new car that rolls off the factory has critical tech manufactured in China - or at the very least Northeast Asia - regardless of the marque's country of origin. Hint: Think computer chips, sensors and screens.

Way too many opinions driven by national zeal rather than actual solid info.

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You're assuming the governments were reacting to COVID, and not making a grab to permanently remove their populations freedom to travel using COVID as the excuse.

I don't believe in any grand Covid conspiracy theory. The virus is what it is. The news sensationalized it -> causing general populations to panic -> and then governments locked down because pandering to frightened populations create political incentive for opportunistic politicians.

A lot of governments (as evidenced by Thailand) are aware that travel needs to normalize at some point. But the residual fear in populations makes that kinda hard in practice.

No government wants millions of deaths on their watch because even if that might only be, for example, 0.06% of population, every politician is aware that gen pub is going to focus on the raw number and not the rate. Just look at how hard it's been for me to get anyone on here to think in percentages. Allowing scary-sounding death rate numbers is political suicide for any politician - particularly those facing the ballot box. And I could take this opportunity to eviscerate the sacred cow of democracy, but I'll save that execution for a different time.

Anyway I do understand why and how we got into this never-ending mess. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Quote

That's where the harm is coming from. Not an attack against you but the many zealots here who continue to wish death upon the world.

After having to register for my third vaccine passport in the last month (this time with gov-mandated authenticator app!) I have decided to go on a (probably ill advised) rant.

I'm a pro-vaxxer. I got vaccinated and generally encourage other people to do the same. But bluntly, I believe that it's every individual's choice to get or not get the vaccine. We need to just accept that and open up. Like, 100% open up. If they die, they die. If they pass it to a vulnerable person and the vulnerable person dies, they die. If they pass it to me and I die, I die. The ongoing disruption of normal life at this point is ridiculous. Like, it's legit insane.

On a percentage basis, Covid has always only killed very small amount of people. As we learned more about the disease, that rate declined. And as vaccines rolled out and continue to roll out across the world, that rate has declined further. At this point we are looking at rates well below 1% mortality in fully vaccinated persons. Please don't @ me with "bUt MiLliOnS oF pEopLe." If you want to say that, all you're really saying is that you don't understand percentages and you're bad at math (among other things).

At some point during the pandemic, society seems to have collectively decided that its overriding imperative was to prevent Covid cases at all costs. All other considerations be damned. As far as I'm aware that was never debated at any point, and the logic of the premises underpinning that idea never came under scrutiny. Most people aren't even aware that it's a values judgment rather than a fundamental truth or necessity (if you understand this, try and explain it someone and watch their brains contort in any attempt not to process. You might even see it in responses to this post). People were scared, and that made restrictions politically expedient. The result? This single minded obsession with minimizing case counts regardless of the proportionality of measures taken to that effect.

At this point we're still seeing panic of single digit deaths per day. In some parts of the world determined to stick to a zero Covid policy, we see mass restrictions over even a single new case. Like, are you serious? Does it not occur to people at any point how absolutely disproportionate measures are now to risk? Many countries (with vaccine saturaiton 70%+!) are still maintaining abnormal measures affecting day to day life, to say nothing of high barriers to international travel. It's unbelievable.

How much inconvenience are we going to have to endure before we just nut up and get on with it? Like, if you're a person who genuinely thinks Covid is still a big deal, what specific rate or number would be the threshold at which you would no longer feel that arduous measures were warranted? Have you even thought about it? Because I'm betting you haven't.

Ok rant over. I feel less frustrated now. As you were, lads. Carry on.

7 hours ago, shdmn said:

I'm a tourist and I could not care less.  I sort of hope what you say is partially true.  If I end up going the less tourists the better as far as I'm concerned. 

I legit can hardly believe how addicted to alcohol/nightlife this board is.

I enjoy a night out as much as the next bloke, but if you can't have fun without alcohol involved...time to take a loooong look in the mirror. I spent the first 9 months of this year in Bangkok. Had a great time when alcohol was permitted; had a great time when it wasn't.

Hope you have a blast on holiday as well!