jope

If we know Thailand, we can expect this case to be a non event. In a normal situation when the 2 houses exist, the NACC verdict will lead to senate impeachment and currently there is no upper house and Yingluck is no longer PM. The NACC can also opined that Yingluck is prima farcie and send case to Supreme Court Criminal Division For Person holding Political Position but I doubt they will find evidence of purposefully commiting an dishonest act and moreover she already out of office and not a threat to the junta. I believe that the NACC will hear the case, go through the motion and let her off on technicalities.

Do you realize, that you just described a worst case scenario for some people?

I think the "political reasons" that were mentioned in the public statement point exactly into this direction. That she will run free or will get a serious "Don't do that again".

My explanation: nobody wants to stir up unrest (in the north and the northeast she continues to be rather popular) and nobody wants to have other names than those of the usual suspects being "dragged" into this.

Apart from that, is there any doubt that either a verdict or a release note (if that is the right English term) is already prepared and ready to be printed and published?

No, the reason is that they are all at it from all the parties, and no doubt many powerful land owners, corporations etc etc could have been involved. The last thing future Govts want is a harsh sentence which would set a precedent which may come home to roost close to home in the future.

A firm slap on the wrist will look fine, and they can all go about there business as per normal.

No contradiction. That is exactly what I meant!

Oh, and while we are at it and perfectly fits in (into this emotional environment) I repost something that I read some time ago on TV:

-Quote-

MobileContent, on 16 Apr 2014 - 12:31, said:

10 years after his conviction he will be a free men (Statue of limitation). Same as the bother from Chuan Lekpai that took over 200 million Baht from former Thai Farmers Bank (now Kasikorn) and who went off to Taiwan and came back after 10 years.

-Unquote-

But do not worry, all you brave brownsorryyellow shirt supporters. Somebody will think of something. My favorite: a "Lex Thaksin". Something like "No statue of limitation will apply to people who were Prime Minister and lived abroad for longer than three months". They liked to say Thaksins name but laws have to be general (Rule of Law and all) so they must describe whom they mean.

I think I will repost MobileContent more often in the future.

If we know Thailand, we can expect this case to be a non event. In a normal situation when the 2 houses exist, the NACC verdict will lead to senate impeachment and currently there is no upper house and Yingluck is no longer PM. The NACC can also opined that Yingluck is prima farcie and send case to Supreme Court Criminal Division For Person holding Political Position but I doubt they will find evidence of purposefully commiting an dishonest act and moreover she already out of office and not a threat to the junta. I believe that the NACC will hear the case, go through the motion and let her off on technicalities.

Do you realize, that you just described a worst case scenario for some people?

I think the "political reasons" that were mentioned in the public statement point exactly into this direction. That she will run free or will get a serious "Don't do that again".

My explanation: nobody wants to stir up unrest (in the north and the northeast she continues to be rather popular) and nobody wants to have other names than those of the usual suspects being "dragged" into this.

Apart from that, is there any doubt that either a verdict or a release note (if that is the right English term) is already prepared and ready to be printed and published?

The judgment from the NACC:

[แม้ในชั้นนี้พยานหลักฐานยังไม่ปรากฏชัดเจนว่าผู้ถูกกล่าวหามีส่วนร่วม ในการทุจริตหรือสมยอมให้เกิดการทุจริตหรือไม่ก็ตาม แต่การที่ผู้ถูกกล่าวหาไม่บริหารราชการแผ่นดินให้เป็นไปตามนโยบายที่แถลงไว้ ต่อสภาฯ ว่าจะป้องกันและปราบปรามการทุจริตและประพฤติมิชอบในภาครัฐอย่างจริงจัง โดยยึดหลักความโปร่งใสและมีธรรมาภิบาลของการบริหารกิจการบ้านเมืองที่ดี ทั้งไม่พิจารณาระงับยับยั้งโครงการตั้งแต่เริ่มรับทราบความเสียหายอันร้าย แรงที่สุดของประเทศจากการดำเนินโครงการ จึงมีมติ 7 ต่อ 0 ว่าพฤติการณ์ของผู้ถูกกล่าวหาเป็นการส่อว่าจงใจใช้อำนาจหน้าที่ขัดต่อบท บัญญัติแห่งรัฐธรรมนูญ มาตรา 178 และส่อว่าจงใจใช้อำนาจหน้าที่ขัดต่อบทบัญญัติแห่งกฎหมายตาม พ.ร.บ.ระเบียบบริหารราชการแผ่นดิน มาตรา 11 (1) อันเป็นเหตุแห่งการถอดถอนผู้ถูกกล่าวหาออกจากตำแหน่งตามรัฐธรรมนูญ มาตรา 270 จึงให้แยกสำนวนการถอดถอนส่งไปยังวุฒิสภา เพื่อดำเนินการตามอำนาจหน้าที่ต่อไป ส่วนคดีอาญานั้น ที่ประชุมมีมติให้ดำเนินการไต่สวนข้อเท็จจริงต่อไปจนกว่าจะสิ้นกระแสความ ทั้งนี้โดยไม่ตัดพยานที่ผู้ถูกกล่าวหาอ้างมาในคำร้องขอนำสืบแก้ข้อกล่าวหา หลังสุด โดยให้นำไปพิจารณาในสำนวนคดีอาญาต่อไป]

English:

Although up to the present situation there is still no clear evidence that the accused has been involved in corruption or in the toleration of corruption, the fact is that the accused has not ruled the country according to the government statement to Parliament, stating that a serious prevention has to take care of and fight against corruption in the public sector on the basis of transparent and good governance. Furthermore, she has failed to draw a completion of the project into consideration, as it was set from the damage of the project, which are the worst that have befallen the country so far, after receiving knowledge about. On this basis, the Commission has found with 7 votes to 0, the behavior of the accused as a deliberate exercising the function of Article 178 of the Constitution and § 11 (1) of the Act on the national administration. This is due to be carried out even impeachment of the accused under Article 270 of the Constitution. An application is made to the Senate, so it decides removal from office because of a dismissal of the accused. As for a criminal case of the ordinary courts, the Commission decided that such a procedure is carried out until the last instance. The witnesses, who in their last statement already been called by the accused, are considered in such criminal proceedings.

Thanks for sharing and translating!

I think it is rather weak and would not be enough to proceed in western countries (to general, no evidence stated, could therefore apply to anybody) ,unless they actually listed the points, why they think it is enough for a trial, in another part of the document. Did you see the whole thing or is that it?

Thanks anyway!!

See U at the European Championship then. Sorry!

Thanks!!!

Dear English!

Ve Germans vant to see (beat) you in ze final. Please do better!

Any weapons taken off the streets is a good thing, but lets not get too ahead of ourselves here Jamie, in a country with over, what was it you said before ? oh yes, a million weapons at their disposal (UDD militias) What's been found and handed in, is still insignificant in the overall context, if that's indeed the case, then throw in your every day criminal element, and that's probably going to double the amount of illegal weapons.

So yes, the steps and weapons off the streets and out of the hands of the public is a good thing, but bare in mind that even in the UK when there was an amnesty of Rifles (after Hungerford) and handguns ( Dunblane) it didn't stop, nor eradicate the criminal element using weapons in violent crimes.

It is folly to expect that Thailand will rid the country of illegally held weapons, when their borders are as porous as a sponge

It's a long process, but it's slowly achieving some pretty decent results.

Haggis I respect your knowledge of firearms and I am not been condescending but why would a common garden variety criminal need a M79 grenade launcher?

Same way in which the hardcore red shirt needed them... intimidation.

Okay, lets be really practical over this shall we? The M79 attacks mostly happened at night time, and were mostly to intimidate, with casualties being on the lower scale of things, and I mean no disrespect to the dead and injured that resulted in their usage, but and this is a big but, if the aim wasn't to cause fear and panic, and intimidation, if I was a hard core militant, I'd have been firing these into crowds, during the day time, cause mass casualties, mass panic and hysteria, and then blend back into the crowds, as there would be so many fleeing the scene.

It is solely my opinion that the aim was never to cause mass casualties, they were used to intimidate, the fact so many rounds failed to detonate would make me also think that the rounds were not reliable enough to actually use them as an aim to mass casualties.

I should have been a bit more specific in that yes, you're every day thief, and bag snatcher and rapist doesn't need and M79, but more so those in Gangs, and organised crime, there's also nothing better to send a message to a defaulter on loan payments if you're a loan shark either..

A good post. Ran out of likes.

I think two other reasons why people here have them is the "bigger is better" mentality (same as with having bigger cars, even

when impractical or unnecessary), second is that people just hang on to stuff like that - can't normally hand it in without some

questioned being asked, can't sell it without risk, so stashing it somewhere "safe" works. Throwing away stuff is just anti-Thai

thing to do. The age and storage things would go some way in explaining ammo not going off etc.

Might be wrong, but can't offhand recall many instances of M79 being used in criminal related activities here (same goes for

RPGs). Hand grenades and fire arms yes.

Liked the "bigger is better" bit. Reminded me of this Guy Ritchie film "Snatch" (could very well play in Bangkok but with the criminals being Thai )

do they ever check the serial numbers to see if they were from thai military stores, or from previous seizures ?

I remember the weapon amnesty in Kosovo 2001 led by the UN Police. UN Police and Kosovo Police had clear instructions to collect weapons but to not treat them as possible evidence and the Police were strictly forbidden to do any forensic investigations. The UN was hoping that even criminals would surrender their weapons, if they knew they would not be arrested afterwards for other crimes then just the possession of weapons.

In some areas people handed in some old hunting rifles and a few WWII carabiners. All in all it was a complete failure.

The Disarmament programme in Liberia 2005 was rather successful. People were given certain amounts of money for weapons and ammunition they handed in (the sum depending on the type of weapon). The program was completed a few years later and actually, there are only very few guns on the market (the machete seems to be the weapon of choice when it comes to settle civilian disputes). Again, the weapons were collected and destroyed but not examined to find evidence.

I would be surprised, if they told people to hand in their guns and not guarantee that there would be no further examination of the weapons. It is more or less a "must", if you want to have at least a small chance to complete an amnesty successfully.

Nero fiddled while Rome burned

PTP fiddled (literally) while Thailand plummeted into the abyss

Last I heard Thailand maintaining its BBB+ credit rating, debt well managed, SET at record high, record BOI investment, full employment, steady currency and full employment. Doesn't seem heading into the abyss.

BBB+ eh?

Top marks all round, then.

Well, Greece and other EU-states were worse. Anyway, with the new order in place, there can be no doubt that Thailand will soon be on the same level as, lets say, Germany. Why not?

Lol, I doubt if Europe would look the same. Can you say "Heil Hitler?" Korea would probably be united under Kim Jong-Un. That would be a sobering thought. Australia and New Zealand's official language would be Japanese. On the bright side you probably wouldn't have to worry about being obese anymore, and I suspect freedom would be a distant memory. You have a nice day too, I guess, lol.

Good post. Actually there's another possible scenario after 70 years have passed.

Russia would have control of all of Europe, and Australia, NZ, and all Asian countries would be speaking Chinese. Either China or Russia would have grabbed the vacant known now as the USA, and annexed Canada and Mexico.

Russia and China would be enemies, fighting over oil in the Middle East.

Whaaaat???? "We" would have lost anyway, even if the US had not joined in??? Na, never!

(Please! Do not take that seriously and answer with figures of tanks and planes and all!)

He was a 16 or 17 year old boy

He volunteered for the SS. He was a willing collaborator. No one forced him to do anything.

158 train-loads of Jews were taken to the killing center at Auschwitz in just six-months. Thousands of women, children and old people, were killed in gas chambers almost immediately after arriving at Auschwitz, with their bodies burned in four crematories. There is no way that he did not know what was going on and most likely he participated in the slaughter. It is finally time for him to take responsibility for his crimes.

You are absolutely right.

Witness statements and all scientific investigations to that regard show that those very,very,very few who refused to take part in those ordered murders had nothing to fear: they were not shot on the spot, they were not punished, they did not even receive a clap on the wrist. Transferral to another unit and an embarrassed look from the commanding officer was the worst they had to expect. That perfectly supports what my father (had to fight in Russia and was a POW there) once told us: when a soldier was "sentenced" to be shot you did not have to force somebody to be part of the firing squad, there were ALWAYS plenty of volunteers.

post#100 - Have you seen the PTP do anything not in the best interest of their pockets ?.
..

Actually, I have. But I doubt that anybody wants to hear it. Anyway: not that long ago Thailand was at the brink of war. Anybody remember that piece of land with this ancient temple on it? Thailand was obviously prepairing to attack Cambodia to "unite" the Thai people against an enemy from outside (Argentina comes to mind, only that they messed with the wrong nation at the time).
Instead, the newly elected PTP government brought it to the United Nations International Court of Justice and (off course) acceptetd their ruling. I guess, that saved quite a few lifes. But in the end, even that will be seen as "selfserving manipulation" as PTP wanted to be reelected one day and war would have been very unpopular in the noth and the northeast.

The downturn in tourism usually results in a crime increase, I think many Thais are currently finding it harder to make a living if they rely on tourism.

I would say that was a miscalculated analysis.

Even if tourist numbers are down, why would there be an increase in this sort of crime?

These crimes are actually very skilled and these people are professionals. These are career criminals.

We all know the vast majority of ladyboys are out and out criminals.... They do this sort of thing no matter how many tourists are in town.

So do the pickpockets.

They can make more in one snatch, than an honest Thai worker can make in a year.

I would say that your analysis is miscalculated. We all know the vast majority of ladyboys don't have a snatch

Had to look it up, first. So, I learnt a new word today.

I assume, this operation was part of a to-do-list or result of a tip off. Neither this nor the other few findings of weapons says anything about the proliferation of weapons in all of Thailand. Just out of curiosity: are there any raids in Central or South Thailand or even in the deep South?

Wow. This thread was very funny. There are no reds on here. There are no yellows on here.

(Well, there are suddenly a handful of Thai yellows posing as ferang with Thainglish, which is hilarious).

We are ferang, and legally excluded from being silly reds or ranting yellows...but the pretend game keeps going on.

The Thaksin regime is never going to be gone. There is too much money, and this is Thailand. The yellow regime is never going to be gone. There is too much money, and this is Thailand.

The two sides refuse to negotiate. Wait three to five years for the next coup. Repeat rants. Then wait three to five years for the next coup. Repeat rants.

Thai politics is a carnival sideshow. Everyone knows it. Everyone.

We are...entertaining ourselves, nothing more. Gods, some even quote posts made two years ago by such-and-such...

We are entertaining ourselves.

Off course, that is all it is. Without the entertainment factor most of the posts would be insufferable. And once in a while there is a remarkably good post to find. And once in a while there is a post that is so ridiculous that even head shaking would be too much and it is good fun. And once in a while there is a really hilarious quote and it was all worth the while.

Otherwise, this forum is absolutely insignificant and the idea that through this forum specifically yellow shirt supporters are somehow involved or interwoven with the coup (as some people insinuated in another thread some time ago) is completely out of reality.

So, all you brownsorryyellow shirt supporters. Have your party as long as it lasts. I am enjoying it, too (sort of).

The hand outs have now come to a close, after waiting since October, with promise after promise from the PTP ,as you rightly point out ,the repayments have to come , from some-where , from where, Christ only knows.

They come from the General Fund where they were to come from in the first place, and where they would have come from if Yingluck had not been driven to dissolve her government.

You forgot to explain why Yingluck forgot to pay the farmers for several months, or make adequate provision to pay them before she decided, after a months of vowing not to, dissolve parliament.

Any ideas ?

That is exactly what I was wondering all the time. It was no problem in the years before. Subsidies were paid out, nothing to report. And right in the year when Bangkok is shut down (well, partially, didn't work out as planned) and the administration is oh so peacefully besieged the rice scheme fails as banks don't lend money to the government. And miraculously their gates open again as soon as the military has taken over. Why might that be? If you have an explanation (or more than one), please let me know. I am curious.

At the time of the extra judicial killings nobody gave a flying "you know what" about shot (better: murdered) dealers. Very, very few post in this forum mentioned it.

A review of archived threads reveal the reality is the polar opposite of your claim.

A search reveals there are 658 closed threads (not posts) discussing Thaksin's Drug War on the forum.

It seem posters had a LOT to say about it and mention it.

You are right. Off course, many threads and posts -mention- it. My intention was a different one, but this one sentence does not make it clear. It cannot stand, I recant.

My solution, the military should freeze all the Shin,s assets worldwide and take the cash they need out of this

The farmers will die of hunger as the Shins net value is around B 50 billion, they are only the 10th richest family in the country. You must remember that this B 60 bn they are talking about is only for 1 crop, there are 2 crops per year, thus +-B 120 bn per year will be needed.

Shins net value is around B 50 billion

What about all the money they hidden around the World?

Well, how much is it then? And what difference will it make, if they are the fourth ord third or second richest family???

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My solution, the military should freeze all the Shin,s assets worldwide and take the cash they need out of this

"Dear Heads of State,

please be advised, you are requested to send all the Shin-money in your country to my account at the TMB, or else...

your cooperation is appreciated

best regards

the General"

joking aside, it must come as a huge disappointment for all the " the poor - no subsidies"-supporters that the military will continue the rice scheme under a different name. I guess, they are caught in the "we are the good guys"-pr-trap or the military was informed that certain players have money invested in rice-production...

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Most countries subsidize farmers. How about France or the USA? Government could help the transition from farming to industry with proper polices, but we should not expect much for quite awhile. Farming in much of the northeast is a 3 month job with 3 months watching rice grow.... my in-laws are farmers in the Northeast....

In Germany there are subsidies for farmers since 1871 (surprising, isn't it?) Almost half of the EU-budget goes into subsidies for farmers.

But as Tullinagardi mentioned: who wants to rely on other countries when it comes to food production and who wants millions of farmers to be unemployed and wants to wait until the market has sorted it out? Me neither!

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Under the new censorship laws in Thailand, expect to hear that many more of the supporters of the past government that the Junta wants to remove were all drug dealers and expect the anti-democracy cheerleaders on TVF to fall for it.

Definitely something worth trying, particularly as there are no courts or at least the public one could turn to to clear one's name.

And again: quite a few people on this forum think that fundamental rights are not "for the other side". So, some "politically unreliable" people might be in for some rough time and people on this forum will like it and they will never come to the conclusion that what dictators can do to "the other side" they can also do to me, simply because they think that I might have been a bad boy or simply because it pleases them.

Didn't they have a war on drugs a few years ago and eradicate the drug problem? Will these 100 get the bullet to the head from the men in black?

Don't exagerate, even when clad in black fatigues already, they weren't, at that time, 'men in black', yet, simply 'selected' police officers blindly serving 'the master', like any good 'SA' would have done... Wonder when anyone will ever have the balls to bring Thaksin in front of an (international?) Court for that...

There is no international court that has any jurisdiction in that matter.

And again: there is literally nobody in Thailand who would want Thaksin to appear in court regarding this matter.

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Wrong and wrong.

Alright then, which international court would you have in mind?

And who would bring Thaksin to a national court? To my knowledge he has never been charged, why should that change now?

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Didn't they have a war on drugs a few years ago and eradicate the drug problem? Will these 100 get the bullet to the head from the men in black?

Don't exagerate, even when clad in black fatigues already, they weren't, at that time, 'men in black', yet, simply 'selected' police officers blindly serving 'the master', like any good 'SA' would have done... Wonder when anyone will ever have the balls to bring Thaksin in front of an (international?) Court for that...

There is no international court that has any jurisdiction in that matter.

And again: there is literally nobody in Thailand who would want Thaksin to appear in court regarding this matter.

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The question is not why they were involved in drug dealing. The question should be why were they only arrested AFTER the 22nd of May?

That should be the question and that is what should be investigated on all these miraculous break throughs that have progressed with aggressive efficiency that were in a stagnate state PRE 22nd of May.

They are still not arrested. Both sides of the divide have been harvesting big profits from the Golden Triangle since before the Vietnam conflict.

It is hilariously contradictory that Thaksin haters point out extra judicial killings to stop the meth trade was horrendous and then simultaneously say he was involved in drug smuggling.

During the extra judicial killings it was easier to find a virgin in a Pattaya bar than find a methamphetamine dealer in Bangkok. I have seen what meth (yaba) does to people who become addicted to it. People who sell meth should be shot.

Alright, fair enough, but wouldn't it make sense to have some sort of judicial procedure beforehand (even according to Thai "Justice" standards)? Apart from the fact that I am absolutely against death penalty, I always thought that this "crack down" on dealers was more about taking care of the competition than actually fighting drugs. BTW, the same thing might happen right now (only with fewer shot people).