samtam

Our condo (we, the residents) pay for a New Year party for all staff, (about THB30k). We have about 20 security and cleaning (contract) staff. On top of that residents give gifts to be raffled at the party, (now held on the premises, so they can spend more on the party, rather than at a restaurant). I used to tip whoever delivers my mail, grocery shopping to my room, but on top of the money to the Tops delivery guy, it was getting out of hand. I started during covid, but now do not tip, as I'm usually not in. It's a personal thing. I (as a member of the committee) have initiated and authorised refurbishment of the staff canteen, changing rooms etc. They know they are appreciated, and they know who instigated it. In-house technicians who come to fix a multitude of things, (including changing a light bulb), are employed by the Juristic, and they get a tip of about 200 to 1000 depending on what they've done. Our Juristic staff also get a 1 month bonus, and their salaries are reviewed every year, with an average increase of 5% this year.

🥱 I'm shocked that there has been no improvement after all the measures implemented in the last 12 months....years....decades. Really shocked.

I read your link, faithfully copied. I have no idea what a "payer of income" is. And even though your link is directly from RD, my local RD at Sathorn, Bangkok has informed me that my PIN is not going to be used as my TIN, and that I have to apply for one through LP10.1....confusion reigns supremely. I suspect this is all going to be a rather large up cockerel, come the witching hours between 1 January - 31 March 2025.

Yes, absolutely. This makes sense, and seems to be the same as information provided by Bangkok RD.

I AM bringing money into Thailand from my UK State Pension, through ATM, debit cards, so that is why we have been given different answers. With respect to using my Pink ID as my TIN, I was told I would be given a different 13 digit number for my TIN, after completing the LP10.1. My understanding about LTR, is that no foreign income brought into Thailand is subject to tax. But I am certainly not an expert on LTR, although I will apply next year to remove all of that which is now transpiring, wary however that even if there is "no tax" now, this may change...by issuance of another order and formalised by Royal Gazette. The tax loophole created by LTR seems completely at odds with those who do not have it, especially as LTR is for wealthy individuals.

My Bangkok RD has informed me, (via my Thai interlocutor), that foreign Credit Card spending will not be considered income. ATM withdrawals and Debit Card spending, using non Thai cards will be considered income. Accordingly, I will proceed on that basis, when I file in January 2025. Again, my local Bangkok RD has stated that I do need to file; I have no income in Thailand, but I have foreign sourced income over THB60K pa. The total income is below my TEDA (of THB500K), but I am told that I still need to file, (because it exceeds the THB60K, my personal allowance for unmarried). Where do all these stupid farangs asking for TINs get their info? Aseannow? From TRD Sathorn, Bangkok. Please note, as others have commented, different RDs seem to be saying different things. I am only passing on what I have been informed by mine, albeit through my Thai interlocutor. When I actually go with him to obtain the TIN, by completing a Lor.Por.10.1 (as specified by said TRD Sathorn), and when they show me how to put in my foreign sourced income on the Por.Ngor.Dor 90 (which TRD Sathorn have specified), I will report back.

Like Trump?

So far it does not seem to be a requirement, as noted above, albeit before 1 January 2025. It's hazardous to try and give a definitive answer about IMM's requirements, especially as these issues seem to vary from office to office. I expect we might hear differently after 1 January 2025. But a lot of issues will come into play wherein the interests and "opportunities" of 2 government departments do not align. I'm sure it wont take a very long time before RD handles "procedures" in a similar way to IMM. As I've said, "a tangled web is being woven pretty quickly", which of course makes me understand the distaste and disbelief expressed by a number of people about this new "interpretation". But possibly, just possibly, because RD interacts with other countries, they might not want to trash their reputation internationally; immigration "procedures" are a home alone issue, managed in the Thai way. Call me old fashioned, just as with IMM, I want to be above board with RD.

Good to hear. I'm getting a similar response through my inquiries at my RD.

Maybe the first digit identifies the district tax office; I presume yours is not Sathorn district. My pink card begins with a 6, but I am informed the TIN will begin with a "1". I was also informed that a TIN is issued straight away, (by and at the office I am applying).

Do I still have to file a tax return? I am responding purely on my experience of a response from my RD office: It depends on whether you have assessable income earned in 2024 and brought into Thailand above THB60k. If you don't, "no". If you do, "yes".

I will be obtaining my TIN to comply with the TRD's interpretation on the requirement to file, (which they have confirmed, in my district), and they have advised that my pink ID 13 digit number will NOT be my TIN. I have to apply for a TIN by completing a Lor.Por.10.1 Again, this is from my district tax office, so circumstances may, and obviously do vary. My district tax office is Sathorn, in Bangkok. Based on others' experience in different offices, I thought my pink ID would be my TIN, but Sathorn RD say it will start with "1". A tangled web being woven very quickly.

Whether they do introduce a tax on worldwide income is of course purely speculative at this stage. However, I think in return, those that pay it might want to see something for it; I'm not sure how it applies in countries that do tax that way. In UK, for example, if you're a UK resident (and tax resident) there are a number of social benefits that are provided, including of course health care. If there is no similar benefit (s) introduced here, Thailand becomes rather unattractive for many foreigners.

Yes. If you are a Thai tax resident and you want to buy a car with funds from overseas that were earned in 2024 and tax free in the place of earning, those funds will be subject to Thai income tax, after TEDAs. The same applies to property purchases. I'm not sure, but I would very much doubt any cost benefit analysis has been made on this new rule interpretation, which will have an (adverse) impact on GDP, retail and property within the kingdom by foreigners who qualify as tax residents with assessable income. If foreigners who are not Thai tax residents buy big ticket retail or property, then they pay no tax. But I do not know how much the Thai property market relies on tax residents or non tax residents. There's already a glut, and if that causes a major crash in property prices, it will require a reassessment of the tax regime, which has worked pretty well up until this point.

As you suggest, TRD may decide that they do not want all these null filings. My TRD office has not said that so far, in fact the opposite, and until the filings begin in January 2025, any inundation will only occur after that. Clearly they are expecting one: the have set up an expat tax desk.

Correct. Incorrect, according to my Sathorn TRD: Even if your assessable income is below your TEDA, if that income derives from funds brought into Thailand from income earned (outside of Thailand) in 2024, then you have to file a tax return. TRD will apply TEDA, and determine that you have no tax to pay. Please don't "shoot this messenger". This is what I have been told by Sathorn TRD, (last week). They are saying that I need to file, even if I do not need to pay tax.

I asked about this again today. And it is the same answer: I need to complete a Lor.Por 10.1 to obtain a TIN, regardless of whether I am filing online, or in person, or by mail. It will not be the same as my Thai pink ID card 13 digit number; apparently it will begin with "1". Again, it seems there may be completely different experiences, as recounted by others, but I can only go on what has been advised by TRD Sathorn. When I actually file, it may be a different story, but I have been told I have to complete the LP10.1 before I can file, and I have to file.

Sorry, my "office manager" is my condo office manager, who is doing me a favour by talking to TRD in Sathorn. Yes, correct, I have no income in Thailand. I am over 65, so have a TEDA of THB500K pa. Based on the discussion between my condo office manager and TRD Sathorn, my "income" that I bring in, from UK pension and dividends, is below the TEDA. TRD Sathorn want me to file nonetheless, so I will oblige, and have prepared my transactions for my files, although they will not want to see this at the filing, but may call for it at a later date, if they want to audit. As I noted, the filing of a "null" return seems to be required, for this office at least. Others have said completely the opposite, from their own experience at their local RD, which I do not doubt. TRD seems to have a different policy in different offices, which is the norm here, (based on IMM experiences and related). As to application of a TIN, see below.

Thanks. Maybe there is a misunderstanding between the interlocutors that I am filing online. I will inquire further.

All of it, so it's taxable. However, it's within my TEDA, so there is nothing to pay on it.

Well, you certainly seem to be right about having to file, whether tax payment is due, or not: I haven't yet been to RD, (my office is in Sathorn: Thai Chinese Chamber of Commerce, opposite Surasak BTS). But in the meantime my office manager has been helping me, by ringing them up to find out whether I need to file (yes, apparently), and how I need to file. Even though my income into Thailand is less than my TEDA, they still want me to file. I only need to show ATM withdrawal amount, (THB160K) and not credit card, but debit card amounts. First, I need to apply for a Lor.Por.10.1 (to obtain a TIN). Then I need to complete a Por.Nor.Dor 90. However, having looked at the PND90, it is not obvious how or where I put in the sums and deductions, so yet another (4 or 5 so far) call to inquire. Anyway, I'm not convinced that I really do need to obtain a TIN, (not as simple as just using my pink ID number, it will apparently be different to that 13 digit number)*, and then I need to file, and I suspect that when I try to get them to answer my question about how to complete the PND90, they may say "not necessary". A further call will be made, and then I will go and see them in person, with my Thai manager. I didn't think this was going to be easy, and I was right. *Maybe those who obtained their TIN with a pink ID had to complete this Lor.Por.10.1 form?

OK, thanks. I will inquire at RD.

So in my case, if my income is below THB500K, I don't have to file. Actually, we are two unmarried people over 65 who live together, so we both have an allowance of THB500K + THB500K = THB1M; we have joint accounts worldwide and comingle funds.

I thought this was quite a good interview. He seems to have changed his mind since then. I had my deductions worked out to THB500k: THB60k Personal Care Allowance THB100k (up to) Pension Income Allowance THB190k over 65 THB150k zero rate Is that incorrect?

Was it to: The Revenue Department 90 Soi Phaholyothin 7 Phaholyothin Road, Phayathai, Bangkok 10400 As noted, the differences in responses is as varied as the number of offices countrywide. I think the address I have given as above, in Phayathai, is the Head Office. I live in Sathorn, so I presume I would go to the Sathorn Area Office, near Chan Road.