samtam

I am having a similar discussion on another tax thread: My response: I take your point. I have spent this morning relisting all income from pension, and all income from dividends, although of course funds are co-mingled into one current account for withdrawal by the methods I use. I can split off the pension in 40(1) only for the amount remitted, and will only put in the dividend portion in No.3 3 that I use in my remitted (by ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR) funds. It is not all of the dividends, so I am only going to show the proportion of the dividends that qualify. I cannot see how else to do it. There is no requirement (yet) to show my worldwide dividends that are not remitted into Thailand. It seems fairly obvious that the tax forms need to be amended to take account the many variations of how remitted money is brought in, if that is the RD's intention. I'm not sure they really know what they want, judging by the lack of new forms and the variations in responses from RD officers and offices themselves. But here we are with 71 days to go until the deadline.

I take your point. I have spent this morning relisting all income from pension, and all income from dividends, although of course funds are co-mingled into one current account for withdrawal by the methods I use. I can split off the pension in 40(1) only for the amount remitted, and will only put in the dividend portion in No.3 3 that I use in my remitted (by ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR) funds. It is not all of the dividends, so I am only going to show the proportion of the dividends that qualify. I cannot see how else to do it. There is no requirement (yet) to show my worldwide dividends that are not remitted into Thailand. It seems fairly obvious that the tax forms need to be amended to take account the many variations of how remitted money is brought in, if that is the RD's intention. I'm not sure they really know what they want, judging by the lack of new forms and the variations in responses from RD officers and offices themselves. But here we are with 71 days to go until the deadline.

@Mutt Daeng & @oldcpu are you suggesting that remitted income (by whatever means, ATM, Debit Card, FPS QR etc), should not be included as assessable income, even if these those "remittances" are derived from monies paid in the tax year 2024, such as UK State Pension in my case? I draw on funds overseas via the "remittance" methods aforementioned, but as you note, there is no box to specify those remittances. I can use "pension" for the proportion I have "allocated", from that which I draw from co-mingled funds.

I will. I think I will actually go in person with my Thai assistant, to find out what RD recommend.

I can't really think of any other way to file. The PND90 does not allow for the declaration of remittances, (via ATM, Debit Card, FPS etc).

I think I'm going to file it all under 1 (1) as pension. (It's the UK State Pension. Dividends are from a tax free jurisdiction.) They are all paid outside of Thailand. So not all of it is used, and it only comes in through remittances, (as ATM, DC, FPS or CC). Dividends are not paid into Thailand.

None of my assessable income is from employment, but from pension and dividends in 2024, all untaxed at source and brought in through ATM, Debit Card, FPS or Credit Card expenditure, all below my TEDA. As my assistant is doing me a favour it's easier for him to do the online filing, which will result in zero tax owed. Whether the online RD recipient will just say "no tax form" required in response, I don't know. I will discuss with my assistant on Monday. I have completed the PND90 by hand for him to upload (in Thai only) on the website. The mud has not cleared on a number of issues, as you say, but I cannot see any harm in filing online. Obviously, I have all the documentary evidence in my files. I would prefer RD responded, and online would certainly bring that in writing, rather than a verbal "no need" if I go in person. It has of course been a monumental and cumbersome task, with anxiety from the complete lack of clarity, (or variations on verbal statements from RD).

But yes, more than THB60K

I'm bringing in less than my THB500K TEDA

I don't know whether you mentioned that you were completing a PND90 - because you're not salaried in Thailand. I've been reading about how the current 2023 PND90 forms don't take into account "inward remittances", but I shall file under "salary, wages and pensions" for everything, however it comes in, (ATM, debit card, FPS), but not foreign Credit Card, unless there is a definitive change in the latter. If it does change, it may be possible they will allow a refiling. My verbal inquiries to RD, through my Thai assistant have been "no need to include credit cards". But everything is in a state of flux, and may remain so until the end of March when RD assess whether the can of worms they have opened is counterintuitive.

Thanks for the update. You filed online, (is that centralised?) Certificate of withholding tax seems rather a bother, I agree, especially as the amount (in my case) is pretty paltry. Anyway, I will ask my bank; they'll probably charge more than the refund. I do have each withholding tax item listed in my passbook, after the interest amount, but I suppose that would be too simple.

Thank you so much. The online drop down menus certainly make sense. I was going to do it today, but my Thai assistant was busy, so we'll have a go on Monday.

Thank you for your patience (with my endless questions), and for your helpful replies. I have read the guidelines from your link. Unfortunately nothing regarding how you claim back withholding tax on deposit interest. Here is section 3 for 40(04) income: It doesn't seem to give me the options I require to insert interest paid, tax withheld, TIN of paying bank. However, on the front of the form is this box, below, which allows for the claim, but with no box for details. Yes, I've found that per the photo below, having read the guidelines. I think the THB190,000 deduction for over 65s is in the Tax Computation section, no 11 2. "Less allowances etc". Plus my personal allowance of THB60,000 (which the Allowances & Exemptions Attachment) asks me to include in No 11. 2 of the Tax Computation, (per photo below), making a total allowance of THB250,000 (plus the aforementioned THB100,000 for 50% of pension), making the total payable, after THB150,000 tax exempt, a big fat zero. Does this sound about right?

Do you have a sample of how to complete a PD90? (I have no employment in Thailand, so need to complete a PD90.) PD.90 does not appear to have any boxes for TEDA. I am also unsure whether reclaiming withholding tax can be completed on PD90, although I think it might be through item No 11 Tax Computation, subheading 13. "Less [] withholding tax and tax credit.

I guess I'm looking for a proforma example of how to complete a PN.90. I remember seeing one for PN.91....in Mike Lister's definitive guide, I think.

@NoDisplayName I will file the PN90 for both (salary wage and pension) No salary, no wage, only pension. 1. Taxpayer THB60,000 personal allowance does not seem to have a [box]. I cannot see on the P90 where one puts in TEDA, but maybe that is in the Tax Computation section 11? But there is an Income Exemption Entitlement form to be used with PN90. although nowhere I can see that one can include an item for 50% of pension income up to THB100,000. If you know, can you tell me the item number on the form. Income and for withholding tax refund: I think the reclaim of withholding tax comes under "Tax Computation" item 13. "Less [box] Withholding Tax and Tax Credit" but if you can confirm or correct, I would be much obliged.

Yes, my Revenue Department staff source of information seems to be variable at best, and completely incorrect at worst. Makes life a bit harder, although it's not surprising that there is confusion within the ranks of RD staff; similar variations on a theme exist throughout Thai officialdom.

Thank you very much. That makes sense, in a subject that veers wildly from one opinion to another. My apologies, I have to "eat my hat" on another subject we discussed, the issuance of TINs. I maintained from the conversations my Thai interlocutor had with Bangkok Revenue in Sathorn, that they would issue me with a completely different TIN to my pink ID. This morning I went with said person, and he completed on my behalf a Lor.Por10. In the process of doing this I flashed my Thai pink ID, and the clerk's eyes lit up, and so this pink ID number is indeed my TIN. The Lor.Por10 is the registration of that pink ID, (and it has to be registered for it to be activated). It has now apparently been activated, and I will file online tomorrow using the TIN. Well, to be precise, my Thai interlocuter will file for me as the Por.Ngor,Dor90, (as I only have foreign sourced income, none from Thailand*, as I am not permitted to work in Thailand under my visa), can only be completed in Thai online. (*I am not clear whether the P.N.D.90 allows one to claim withholding tax refund, or whether I will have to file a P.N.D.91as my THB800k Thai deposit for visa extension pays interest - income - in Thailand, and has withholding tax deducted.) What follows thereafter may also vary from what was previously advised by RD, including use of foreign credit cards not considered as tax assessable, unrelated to when funds were earned. The OP seems to suggest a volte face, despite saying in an interview with Jett Gunther that credit card transactions are not included.

Thanks. Maybe someone who has recently filed could answer. If records are required to be presented, RD is going to increase their workload substantially, but maybe they're prepared for that🤔?

Do you know whether when you file a tax return online with no tax due, (because it falls beneath TEDA), whether RD then automatically ask you to provide evidence to prove your self-assessment? I have all the evidence, but it's rather complicated, in that it's in (a foreign) bank statements, which I have printed off as a record, and keep in my files. But to submit these scanned statements without explanation would be pretty meaningless to the RD officer.

Well obviously it affects everyone, but the rich in charge seem to think their life in a bubble protects them. I recently read of a government minister (or member) who's parent was ill in hospital with a severe respiratory illness, caused by PM2.5; he, or she is now concerned. I suppose the nearly 10 years of this annual hideous pollution was otherwise barely noticeable. I don't know how completely detached from reality you have to be, not to realise that pollution affects everyone. And yet, here we are. The irony is that one of the highest risk groups are the elderly, and the rich in charge are populated by quite a few in that category.

Will this do instead?... Oh, they're trying. The imagination has gone wild: And this zinger:

@Mutt Daeng Thanks. I just lost the will to live with the contradictory opinions. I am only trying to base my responses on what the Thai Revenue Department have said, even if "they are misinformed". Lordy.

@oldcpu This is my case. I do not have a TIN. My Thai "agent" who has been chatting to my local RD office in Sathorn, said they will assign a TIN on the spot when we go to file the tax return, (which will be a null return, as it's below TEDA). @NoDisplayName You answered my question in the third response; I have never previously filed a tax return, and do not have a TIN, so need to apply before I can file, and I am informed my pink ID will not be the number used. Initially the filing will be in person, as agreed with the agent at Sathorn RD. However, having established this all in November and December, and that Sathorn RD would be setting up an "Expat Desk" to deal exclusively in English with expats wanting to file, and wishing to now proceed to do this asap, the inquiry about whether we could go next week was met with the response, "no", our Expat Desk and RD officers are not yet ready to handle these". Soooo, after the announcement of the original RD change of interpretation, (12+ months ago), and the several calls by my "agent" within the last 2 months to my local RD office, and being fully prepared with documentary evidence proving income from abroad, (unrequired at present), I am ready to file the asked for null return. RD Sathorn however, is not yet ready to deal with such an undertaking. Well, I guess it's only 9 days since the filing is permissible, and I suppose it should be up and running by the deadline of 31 March 2025. But who knows? An up-roostering was anticipated, and so far does not disappoint. Would be happy to hear of others success or otherwise of trying to go to Sathorn RD, to file in person.

How much does it cost you to go in and out of Cambodia to effect these cash transfers? Sad to say, but I suspect IMM was not remotely interested; plenty of opening doors after your's closes. As the need to file a tax return, (if you qualify) doesn't take effect until 1 January, and end on 31 March 2025, IMM are not going to be asking for them yet, if ever. See below. I see you've answered this. But yes, I think taxpayers expect some more tangible benefit (like subsidised healthcare or the like), rather than just the use of roads, safety-questionable pavements etc. Going out the door here in Bangkok costs a fortune. Perhaps better fiscal management, and a system not with built in corruption might make it more palatable; I don't expect to see a clean transparent system in my lifetime. Corruption is Thainess at its finest - it's Thainess Tax.