CRUNCHER

I have no telephone line and need to find an alternative internet connection. Can anyone tell me if EDGE is available in Pattaya or are we stuck with GPRS?

If EDGE is available where can I get a SIM card and what is the cost etc? In Tukcom no one seemed to have heard of it. When I explained what I wanted all they wanted to do was sell me an aircard, which I already have. 1-2-call have a prepaid SIM card, but as far as I can see only supports GPRS. Whilst it is cheap, it is, I am told, painfully slow.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks for a very helpful and well written post. It should answer most peoples questions and it is reassuring to read how easy it is if you do things properly.

I'm with Jingthing on this issue.

I didn't vote in the poll, because I couldn't find the section that said "The sooner the better"

I have nothing against baht buses. I would still use them- when they go where I want to go. It would be nice, however, to get one to go to 3rd Road or to get from Carrefore to Beach Road without the need to take two baht buses (95% turn right onto 2nd Road).

Actually Pattaya does have quite a few Bangkok Taxis driving around - waiting for a fare back to Bangkok. Why not allow them to pick us passengers using the meter whilst they are waiting for the return trip to Bangkok? It would be a simple way to test the demand and the effect. A six month trial period would be a good idea.

There is nothing wrong with choice and competion.

Can anyone please advise me on using the internet via satellite? Can this be done in Pattaya? Some time ago someone told be this was the best way to go, but unfortunately I did not ask any questions at the time.

If so, is it any good, what does it cost and where can I arrange it? Do I need any special equipment (apart from a computer of course) and is it expensive?

Any advice (preferably not in the form of alphabets – I am a complete ignoramus in this area) would be appreciated.

A very good idea, but how are they going to enforce it?

A look at Ocean 1 website shows that they have quietly removed the predicted starting of the project as August that was there a week or so ago. It now says that’ “Construction will officially start when test pile driving is complete.” Unfortunately there is no date, although in FAQ it does say the end of 2007. No mention whatsoever of other permits and tests (wind tunnel?) that seem to be needed.

The good news for investors, if you can believe anything these people say, is that completion is still scheduled for 2010 (or is it2011 as in FAQ). After all the delays in starting the project???

They cannot keep the website up to date and consistent. An insult to investors in an overpriced project such as this.

The website also says that it is – “Located approximately 200 meters from a serene stretch of Jomtien Beach…” “Approximately” could mean a bit more or a bit less. If more - no problem, but if less than 200 meters from the beach will they have problems with the height?

I am not a buyer – I walked out of the office laughing when I saw the prices and payment terms. I am, however, concerned at the way these people do business. It does nothing to enhance the already tarnished reputation of Pattaya developers. Also, can an outfit as unprofessional as this be trusted to build a construction like this and ensure that it is safe? I certainly do not think so.

Obviously one should not always rely on media reports. The meeting reported in Pattaya City News took place on the morning of 1st October (it actually said Monday, but I presume it was 1st October). The one reported in Pattaya Mail was on the same day; time not specified, but presumably before the meeting at City Hall. Obviously a busy morning for some. No wonder there are problems with View Telay 7.

According to the Mail the application still has to “..be submitted to the Office of Natural Resources, Environmental Policy and Planning for consideration this October.” There are also wind tunnel testx to be done. If the report is correct (and I accept it might not be) then everything is not sorted.

The question remains, how can they sell this project knowing that they were having problems with planning? They are certainly not warning potential customers. I enquired about this project at the Jomtien Office months ago and was told everything was approved and building would start in a couple of months. Obviously a blatant lie. How can you trust the integrity of these people?

Below is an item from the latest Pattaya Mail. They have been selling this monstrosity for months. How can they if they have not got all the necessary permits?

Ocean 1 Tower gets preliminary green light

Passes localized referendum

Local citizenry voiced their worries about public utilities in the community after the Ocean 1 Tower is completed.

Ariyawat Nuamsawat

Despite concerns over utilities, safety and traffic, the 91-storey Ocean 1 Tower passed a localized referendum in Jomtien on October 1.

People living or working within a 1 kilometer radius of the project were invited to vote after voicing their concerns and listening to answers from project managers and local government officials. Approximately 400 people turned up for the hearing and subsequent referendum.

The hearing was also attended by representatives from the Office of Natural Resources, Environmental Policy and Planning, city councilors, representatives from 27 communities, and tourism entrepreneurs.

One of the main concerns raised at the meeting was about water, or lack thereof. Environmental researcher Sitthichai Tantanasarit responded that the city’s water resources would be enough to handle the 700-800 m3 of water the Ocean 1 Tower would use per day, as only half of this amount, 400 m3 of water, would need to come from the city supply. The other 400 m3 of Ocean 1 Tower’s daily water needs would come from recycled sources.

Sitthichai went on to say that project is being planned to stay within the law regarding it being the correct distance from the sea, and providing management against disasters. Also, because of the proposed building’s height, the project will require a wind tunnel test.

Chonburi Province officials have voiced concern about public utility problems, but Weera Sinto, GM of N.S. Consultant Co., Ltd., the advisor and designer of the environmental system for the construction project, said he will keep a close eye on progress to make sure all concerns are addressed properly, such as protection against fire, traffic, eradicating wastewater, public utilities, and scenery.

A committee also will be set up with Pattaya City to check the project and control construction. Ocean 1 Tower officials have agreed to support a budget of 7 million baht for Pattaya City to develop and solve problems in the community around the project area, and they will set aside a free commerce area of 50 m2 for the community.

Tawich Chaisawangwong, Pattaya City Council chairman, said that the Ocean 1 Tower project had been submitted to the Pattaya Council for discussion and approval. There had been some doubts about the effect on the environment and public utilities, but in his opinion, he believes this project will be good for the city’s tourism image, and would create jobs and tax revenue for the local government.

After all the talk was over, most of the local villagers agreed to proceed, as they hope to receive benefits and increase their daily income after the project starts.

For the next step, project plans will be submitted to the Office of Natural Resources, Environmental Policy and Planning for consideration this October, and is expected that plans will be approved soon.

Ocean 1 Tower will have 91 floors and be more than 305 meters high, with 611 rooms and a 2 story plaza. The project will take 4-5 years to complete.

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What's about the publication of the new rules in the "Gazette"? Ten days are over!

I think, now is the time for the lawyers of SUNBELT to make a clear statement.

Check out the original post in this thread.

OK. So now we know the reason for the change – the Police Order is ultra vires. Dependant visas are not available for retirees’ families. This is not the racist change that many claimed (perhaps age discrimination). A simple (albeit serious to those affected) SNAFU that has been corrected.

How it has been handled is another issue. Some form of public statement from Immigration would have been nice. Some grace period perhaps, especially for those who will not have necessary funds in the bank for 3 months to obtain an additional visa.

I am not sure why the grandfathering cannot be allowed. In many countries the rules of natural justice would have allowed this. On the current Immigration logic all those who now have dependant visas based on retirement do not have a legal visa and should have their position regularized at once.

Does anyone have any idea how many people actually have a dependant visa based on retirement? I suspect that, in the overall scheme of things, it is not many. I would have thought that an amendment to the Ministerial Order would have been the most equitable way forward.

Thanks for a detailed post Ken. Could you clarify a couple of things?

I presume you are on a retirement visa? Correct?

I presume your wife is Thai , but travels on a USA passport, hence she needs a visa? Correct?

If so does she have a dependant Visa?

If so any problems with new regulation?

"Kite Flying", as this practice is known, is common with governments and public companies the World over. The fact that the Bangkok office is the only one that seems to know about this gives some support the the theory that this is a "Kite Flying" exercise. What gives cause for concern is that Immigration seems to be actually applying this new procedure in practice in Bangkok. This does not normally happen in "Kite Flying" cases.

Time will tell!

There used to one on Theprassit Soi 17, just down from Theprassit. Don't know if it's still there.

An old thread. Don't know if info is up to date.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...php/t70659.html

I apologise if this has been covered already, it is a few days old. If it has I missed it and cannot now find it. Below is an extract from the Pattaya City Expats Club Newsletter for 2nd to 9th September. Any confirmation from another source? If so is this policy cancelled or just postponed?

“The meeting was opened by Jim Jones, who was making his first appearance as MC. His first task was to introduce Barry Kenyon, Honorary British Consul who was making a welcome return visit to announce some breaking news about retirement visas – good news for a change. Barry announced that the Commander of the Pattaya Immigration Office told him that he received a notice from his superiors that the requirement to obtain a stamp from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok as verification of the authenticity of the Embassy letter certifying pension income has been cancelled. This requirement was initially supposed to go into effect on October 1, 2007,”

Let's make it simpler for you to answer, then: whose countries have the most xenophobic immigration laws? Westerners' or Thais'?

We are in danger of getting a little off topic, but I do not which to be more evasive than necessary.

Many western counties are just as "xenophobic" as Thailand. Ask an Indian who needs a visa to even transit UK as I need one to transit India. My best answer at this point - about the same.

Question 1 is unanswerable because not every country even gazettes what are often regarded as procedural matters. Anyway it is less than clear to what extent this is being enforced in Thailand, apart from the odd case in Bangkok, before the amendment is published. So lets not jump to use the X word.

Question 2. Wait for the dust to settle. Grandfathering may yet happen. Wait for the new regulations to be published before using the X word.

Whatever the outcome this is no excuse to call all Thais xenophobic or racist which some posters have done.

Whose countries have racist, xenophobic immigration laws?

As to which countries have racist immigration laws, the answer is just about every country. Almost by definition just about all immigration laws are racist to one extent or another. That is no excuse to deride the people of those countries as being xenophobic (which is not the same as racist).

Every country has the right to have immigration laws it deems fit and necessary for the running of the country; whether people wishing to go to that country like it or not. Thailand is no exception. A great many countries treat people from one country differently from people of another country. This is racist, but often there are reasons (good or not as the case may be). If you don’t like it you don’t go there.

Thai Immigration has a long way to go before it gets things even close to right. As to the way this issue has been implemented (speed, lack of grandfathering etc) as I said in my post this is unusual even for Thai Immigration. I think we need to see exactly what happens when the dust settles before calling all Thais xenophobic. Although the situation is not good, it might well not be quite as bad in the end as it seems now.

Perhaps there is some good reason for this change and the way it has been dealt with. I must confess it is difficult to think of one at the moment. The point being we need to see some clarification before we panic or resort to name calling.

Kind Regards, Dave

Thanks for your comments Dave. I agree with pretty much all you say in this and in earlier posts.

My comments relating to racist farang was in response to earlier posts. It makes my blood boil to see Thai people ladled xenophobic because of what the Immigration Dept. does or does not do. I hoped (perhaps too optimistically) that when some posters lable Thais xenophobic they are themselves guilty of the same crime. As to the use of “farang” and “TIT”, I agree, but I think it is, to some extent, not a question of not what you say, more a question of the way you say it.

I agree with you that Immigration has a long way to go before it gets things right. The subject of this thread is yet one more example. Given the widespread concern that it has raised, to say that a public statement (press release?) giving the definitive position would be helpful is an understatement.

The problem is that every time Immigration finds a hole in it’s system it puts a patch on it. The subject of this thread is one more example. By now the system has so many patches it is unstable, unfair and almost unworkable. What is needed is a complete revamp of the entire visa system. Perhaps I am asking too much. TIT (Oops!)

I understand people are worried by this. My wife is not far off 50 and so perhaps I am not as badly off as some. We will have to see what happens when the dust settles. Whatever happens the Thais are some of the nicest people on earth.

A sample reading of posts in this thread tells me that if I were Thai I wouldn't want most of these farang in my country either. I think they feel the same way about the country being flooded with farang as most of us farang do - enough is enough!

Could you please stop spamming this thread with your inane posts?

Nothing inane about it. This thread, along with a lot of other threads, is polluted with outrageously racist comments made by xenophobic farang. These comments by racist farang do nothing enhance the reputation of farang amongst ordinary Thais, not to mention the Immigration Department who apparently monitor this forum.

To deal with the subject of this thread - there is obviously something wrong with this (ou understanding of what is happening) or something more behind it that we do not know about. I am not referring to what has been done, but the way it has been done. I.e. Introduced suddenly, without notice and, it would seem, that offices outside of Bangkok have not been informed of the changes despite the apparent urgency. The lack of grandfathering is also odd. Normally Thai authorities are quite sympathetic in this respect. The answer is probably in the reason behind it; whatever that might be.

The best advice has already be mentioned more than one – don’t panic, but wait and see what actually comes out.

Many Consulates have always used a six month period for a two or more entry tourist visas.

Name one. Just so I can recommend it to friends.

More then 2 entries? I tried about 8 years ago to apply for a 3xTR in KL but they told me that because the visa only lasts for 3 months it was no point in giving out 3xTR.

Birmingham Hull - there's two.

Think you will find this is all to do with anti terrorism/money laudering. Banks and financial institutions the world over now want more information to open an account. Anyone tried opening a bank account in Thailand recently.

A shame, but it is a sign of the times and the kibd of world we live in.

Argentina does not detain visa overstayers. At least western tourist types and I am certain about that. I am sure there are others.

I really do believe Thailand is over zealous in the enforcement of these matters. 3 month address reports in person? Excessive. I don't why they are so over zealous but my theory is it is a symptom of xenophobia.

Yes! They are for real. No doubt about it. Beware and do all you can to avoid the sorry fate of this poor schlub,

I never said don't respect the rules and don't respect the total power they have. But I am saying, kicking a poor guy when he is down for such a minor thing is very unseemly.

I don't like to see people in trouble, but quite frankly some people ask for it. The moral is "when in Rome do as the Thais do". Overstay in Argentina you might be OK, but anyone who has been in Thailand 5 minutes konows how seriously such things are taken here. If you can't do the time don't do the crime. Simple as that.

call me greedy but, a retreat is a good thing for us now

Hi there Greedy. Sorry. Couldn't resist it.

Careful mate - This is irrelevant if you retire outside of the E.U. Essentially the UK defaults on its insurance program. Yes they pay the pension but it does not increase (over your entire lifetime), there have been European Court of Human Rights cases on this subject. Research the BBC web site to cross check.

This is only partly correct. In some countries outside of EU you can get increases, but which ones I am not sure. Unfortunately Thailand is not one of them.

A test case is going to European Court, possibly later this year, to challenge this. It is being taken up by a woman fromCanada. A similar case was thrown out by British courts some time ago and this is the next step. It is still not resolved, but watch this space and live in hopes.

My wife sent Australian dollars, using internet banking, to her sister in Thailand reently. We always send dollars to take advantage of the better exchange rate in Thailand than in Australia. We have done this many times to the Siam Commercial Bank with no hassle at all and the funds are usually in the Thai baht account the day after we make the transfer. This time it was to the the Krung Thai Bank and the funds did not appear. The sister went to her branch to be told it would take at least a month to clear the funds! My wife was having none of that and phone KT bank HQ and was told that there is a policy to ask the account holder if they want to keep the funds in dollars or change them to baht - this, even though the account number to which the funds are sent is a baht account! The problem here is that the bank makes no effort to ask the customer this question and holds on to the funds, (maybe for a month!), and coincidentally making some interest along the way. To be fair, after my wife's tirade the KT did phone her sister and promise to transfer the funds immediately.....we are still waiting...

Has anyone else come across this problem? How will it affect those of us who transfer funds to our own accounts in Thailand while we are overseas?

Should we change banks or are they all doing this?

Wontok

This is one area Bangkok Bank is good. Usually my money arrives (from Hong Kong) the same day; at latest the next day. Don't know how your internet banking works. I include an instruction on my transfer to the bank here in Thailand to exchange funds to Thai Baht.Never had a problem. (Shouldn't speak too soon I suppose.)