CRUNCHER

The developer can't seem to finish View Telay Residences which are only 7 stories. (Money problems??). What chance they can finish a 91 story building? They are nearly a year late starting the project.

Thanks wpcoe. It seems your experience is much the same as mine. I now believe these buses terminate on Sukhumvit at Pattaya Sai. i.e they do not go to Jomtien any more.

I remember some years ago I caught the slow, stopping bus (red, white and blue) from Bangkok to Jomtien. If I remember correctly (but I might be wrong) the bus terminated somewhere near Beach Road. A few days ago I tried to find the terminus to go from Jomtien in the Bangkok direction, but I could not find it.

Can anyone tell me where the terminus is? Or indeed if these buses still go to Jomtien? I know the buses still have Jomtien-Pattaya- Bangkok painted on the side.

...Oh yes, and the British do change the rules on you. They do so often, and they are class acts at it.).

You are right about changes in UK. In the near future tourist visas will be 3 months not 6.

If you need a sponsor, the sponsor will have to put up a cash deposit refundable when you leave. Of course this only applies to nationals of certain countries. (Xenophobic Brits??)

This is no surprise. Thai authorities can find out by reading ThaiVisa that people are living in Thailand full time using tourist visa from Penang.

Back in October 2006 a Thai Government Official said that foreingers were welcome to stay in Thailand as long as they had a visa approporiate to their stay. I think that this is perfectly reasonable. 30 day visa exempt entries are for short term tourists; tourist visas are for long term tourists. Anyone living here full time needs a non immigrant visa, elite card etc. Nothing wrong with this.

I know those under 50 or not married to a Thai have some difficulty, but every country's immigration laws adversly affect some people. Sad, but that's life. Quite frankly I think that the Thai Government could do more to accomodate these people. At the end of the day, however, it is their country and if foreigners want to live here they must respect the laws and customs of the land.

Anyone who cannot afford a return trip to their own country once a year to get the necessary visas cannot be in a position to contribute that much to the Thai ecconomy. Air fare are not that expensive these days.

Quite frankly some farang who cannot find some way to stay here legally have an inflated idea of their importance to the Thai ecconomy.

I thought this thread was about "Jomtien Condo Owners Sue for Sea View".

Why all these posts about chidren on construction sites? These are surely off topic and are definately deflecting from the main issue.

Whilst children being injured on construction sites is a terrible thing, surely this should be the subject of a separate thread for those who wish to discuss it.

Some people do not like my SLAM THE DOOR AND WALK AWAY suggestion. Fine, what is your suggestion? Accept the mafia victory and offer no flak? Not good enough. Come on, go ahead, if you can come up with something better that we as farangs can actually do, speak up please.

Until someone comes up with something better, please remember to: SLAM THE DOOR AND WALK AWAY

Perhaps you're baiting to keep this thread alive, but my suggestion is SAY: NO THANKS, THEN CLOSE THE DOOR AND WALK AWAY.

Being aggressive about it will not help the situation at all.

Absolutely agree Tropo. Two wrongs do not make a right. People should refuse to use a taxi when the driver does not use the meter, it is the only way. Eventually they will get the message - hopefully.

I agree with what Jing is trying to achieve, but his methods need cooling a bit. Ranting about mafia and slamming doors will achieve nothing.

Pattaya is a different market than Bangkok. Perhaps flagfall needs to be higher. (I think it is 50 Baht in Phukett). Perhaps there should be a surcharge for going to out of the way places like east of Sukumvit.

Finally, as I have said in other threads - Bangkok taxis waiting for the return trip to Bangkok should be allowed to pick up fares on the meter. This would give a good idea of the real demand.

A few days ago I got internet banking with BKK Bank in Pattaya with nothing more than a one year multi entry non-O.

I have no telephone line and need to find an alternative internet connection. Can anyone tell me if EDGE is available in Pattaya or are we stuck with GPRS?

If EDGE is available where can I get a SIM card and what is the cost etc? In Tukcom no one seemed to have heard of it. When I explained what I wanted all they wanted to do was sell me an aircard, which I already have. 1-2-call have a prepaid SIM card, but as far as I can see only supports GPRS. Whilst it is cheap, it is, I am told, painfully slow.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks for a very helpful and well written post. It should answer most peoples questions and it is reassuring to read how easy it is if you do things properly.

I'm with Jingthing on this issue.

I didn't vote in the poll, because I couldn't find the section that said "The sooner the better"

I have nothing against baht buses. I would still use them- when they go where I want to go. It would be nice, however, to get one to go to 3rd Road or to get from Carrefore to Beach Road without the need to take two baht buses (95% turn right onto 2nd Road).

Actually Pattaya does have quite a few Bangkok Taxis driving around - waiting for a fare back to Bangkok. Why not allow them to pick us passengers using the meter whilst they are waiting for the return trip to Bangkok? It would be a simple way to test the demand and the effect. A six month trial period would be a good idea.

There is nothing wrong with choice and competion.

Can anyone please advise me on using the internet via satellite? Can this be done in Pattaya? Some time ago someone told be this was the best way to go, but unfortunately I did not ask any questions at the time.

If so, is it any good, what does it cost and where can I arrange it? Do I need any special equipment (apart from a computer of course) and is it expensive?

Any advice (preferably not in the form of alphabets – I am a complete ignoramus in this area) would be appreciated.

A very good idea, but how are they going to enforce it?

A look at Ocean 1 website shows that they have quietly removed the predicted starting of the project as August that was there a week or so ago. It now says that’ “Construction will officially start when test pile driving is complete.” Unfortunately there is no date, although in FAQ it does say the end of 2007. No mention whatsoever of other permits and tests (wind tunnel?) that seem to be needed.

The good news for investors, if you can believe anything these people say, is that completion is still scheduled for 2010 (or is it2011 as in FAQ). After all the delays in starting the project???

They cannot keep the website up to date and consistent. An insult to investors in an overpriced project such as this.

The website also says that it is – “Located approximately 200 meters from a serene stretch of Jomtien Beach…” “Approximately” could mean a bit more or a bit less. If more - no problem, but if less than 200 meters from the beach will they have problems with the height?

I am not a buyer – I walked out of the office laughing when I saw the prices and payment terms. I am, however, concerned at the way these people do business. It does nothing to enhance the already tarnished reputation of Pattaya developers. Also, can an outfit as unprofessional as this be trusted to build a construction like this and ensure that it is safe? I certainly do not think so.

Obviously one should not always rely on media reports. The meeting reported in Pattaya City News took place on the morning of 1st October (it actually said Monday, but I presume it was 1st October). The one reported in Pattaya Mail was on the same day; time not specified, but presumably before the meeting at City Hall. Obviously a busy morning for some. No wonder there are problems with View Telay 7.

According to the Mail the application still has to “..be submitted to the Office of Natural Resources, Environmental Policy and Planning for consideration this October.” There are also wind tunnel testx to be done. If the report is correct (and I accept it might not be) then everything is not sorted.

The question remains, how can they sell this project knowing that they were having problems with planning? They are certainly not warning potential customers. I enquired about this project at the Jomtien Office months ago and was told everything was approved and building would start in a couple of months. Obviously a blatant lie. How can you trust the integrity of these people?

Below is an item from the latest Pattaya Mail. They have been selling this monstrosity for months. How can they if they have not got all the necessary permits?

Ocean 1 Tower gets preliminary green light

Passes localized referendum

Local citizenry voiced their worries about public utilities in the community after the Ocean 1 Tower is completed.

Ariyawat Nuamsawat

Despite concerns over utilities, safety and traffic, the 91-storey Ocean 1 Tower passed a localized referendum in Jomtien on October 1.

People living or working within a 1 kilometer radius of the project were invited to vote after voicing their concerns and listening to answers from project managers and local government officials. Approximately 400 people turned up for the hearing and subsequent referendum.

The hearing was also attended by representatives from the Office of Natural Resources, Environmental Policy and Planning, city councilors, representatives from 27 communities, and tourism entrepreneurs.

One of the main concerns raised at the meeting was about water, or lack thereof. Environmental researcher Sitthichai Tantanasarit responded that the city’s water resources would be enough to handle the 700-800 m3 of water the Ocean 1 Tower would use per day, as only half of this amount, 400 m3 of water, would need to come from the city supply. The other 400 m3 of Ocean 1 Tower’s daily water needs would come from recycled sources.

Sitthichai went on to say that project is being planned to stay within the law regarding it being the correct distance from the sea, and providing management against disasters. Also, because of the proposed building’s height, the project will require a wind tunnel test.

Chonburi Province officials have voiced concern about public utility problems, but Weera Sinto, GM of N.S. Consultant Co., Ltd., the advisor and designer of the environmental system for the construction project, said he will keep a close eye on progress to make sure all concerns are addressed properly, such as protection against fire, traffic, eradicating wastewater, public utilities, and scenery.

A committee also will be set up with Pattaya City to check the project and control construction. Ocean 1 Tower officials have agreed to support a budget of 7 million baht for Pattaya City to develop and solve problems in the community around the project area, and they will set aside a free commerce area of 50 m2 for the community.

Tawich Chaisawangwong, Pattaya City Council chairman, said that the Ocean 1 Tower project had been submitted to the Pattaya Council for discussion and approval. There had been some doubts about the effect on the environment and public utilities, but in his opinion, he believes this project will be good for the city’s tourism image, and would create jobs and tax revenue for the local government.

After all the talk was over, most of the local villagers agreed to proceed, as they hope to receive benefits and increase their daily income after the project starts.

For the next step, project plans will be submitted to the Office of Natural Resources, Environmental Policy and Planning for consideration this October, and is expected that plans will be approved soon.

Ocean 1 Tower will have 91 floors and be more than 305 meters high, with 611 rooms and a 2 story plaza. The project will take 4-5 years to complete.

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What's about the publication of the new rules in the "Gazette"? Ten days are over!

I think, now is the time for the lawyers of SUNBELT to make a clear statement.

Check out the original post in this thread.

OK. So now we know the reason for the change – the Police Order is ultra vires. Dependant visas are not available for retirees’ families. This is not the racist change that many claimed (perhaps age discrimination). A simple (albeit serious to those affected) SNAFU that has been corrected.

How it has been handled is another issue. Some form of public statement from Immigration would have been nice. Some grace period perhaps, especially for those who will not have necessary funds in the bank for 3 months to obtain an additional visa.

I am not sure why the grandfathering cannot be allowed. In many countries the rules of natural justice would have allowed this. On the current Immigration logic all those who now have dependant visas based on retirement do not have a legal visa and should have their position regularized at once.

Does anyone have any idea how many people actually have a dependant visa based on retirement? I suspect that, in the overall scheme of things, it is not many. I would have thought that an amendment to the Ministerial Order would have been the most equitable way forward.

Thanks for a detailed post Ken. Could you clarify a couple of things?

I presume you are on a retirement visa? Correct?

I presume your wife is Thai , but travels on a USA passport, hence she needs a visa? Correct?

If so does she have a dependant Visa?

If so any problems with new regulation?

"Kite Flying", as this practice is known, is common with governments and public companies the World over. The fact that the Bangkok office is the only one that seems to know about this gives some support the the theory that this is a "Kite Flying" exercise. What gives cause for concern is that Immigration seems to be actually applying this new procedure in practice in Bangkok. This does not normally happen in "Kite Flying" cases.

Time will tell!

There used to one on Theprassit Soi 17, just down from Theprassit. Don't know if it's still there.

An old thread. Don't know if info is up to date.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...php/t70659.html

I apologise if this has been covered already, it is a few days old. If it has I missed it and cannot now find it. Below is an extract from the Pattaya City Expats Club Newsletter for 2nd to 9th September. Any confirmation from another source? If so is this policy cancelled or just postponed?

“The meeting was opened by Jim Jones, who was making his first appearance as MC. His first task was to introduce Barry Kenyon, Honorary British Consul who was making a welcome return visit to announce some breaking news about retirement visas – good news for a change. Barry announced that the Commander of the Pattaya Immigration Office told him that he received a notice from his superiors that the requirement to obtain a stamp from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok as verification of the authenticity of the Embassy letter certifying pension income has been cancelled. This requirement was initially supposed to go into effect on October 1, 2007,”

Let's make it simpler for you to answer, then: whose countries have the most xenophobic immigration laws? Westerners' or Thais'?

We are in danger of getting a little off topic, but I do not which to be more evasive than necessary.

Many western counties are just as "xenophobic" as Thailand. Ask an Indian who needs a visa to even transit UK as I need one to transit India. My best answer at this point - about the same.

Question 1 is unanswerable because not every country even gazettes what are often regarded as procedural matters. Anyway it is less than clear to what extent this is being enforced in Thailand, apart from the odd case in Bangkok, before the amendment is published. So lets not jump to use the X word.

Question 2. Wait for the dust to settle. Grandfathering may yet happen. Wait for the new regulations to be published before using the X word.

Whatever the outcome this is no excuse to call all Thais xenophobic or racist which some posters have done.

Whose countries have racist, xenophobic immigration laws?

As to which countries have racist immigration laws, the answer is just about every country. Almost by definition just about all immigration laws are racist to one extent or another. That is no excuse to deride the people of those countries as being xenophobic (which is not the same as racist).

Every country has the right to have immigration laws it deems fit and necessary for the running of the country; whether people wishing to go to that country like it or not. Thailand is no exception. A great many countries treat people from one country differently from people of another country. This is racist, but often there are reasons (good or not as the case may be). If you don’t like it you don’t go there.

Thai Immigration has a long way to go before it gets things even close to right. As to the way this issue has been implemented (speed, lack of grandfathering etc) as I said in my post this is unusual even for Thai Immigration. I think we need to see exactly what happens when the dust settles before calling all Thais xenophobic. Although the situation is not good, it might well not be quite as bad in the end as it seems now.

Perhaps there is some good reason for this change and the way it has been dealt with. I must confess it is difficult to think of one at the moment. The point being we need to see some clarification before we panic or resort to name calling.