CRUNCHER

Kind Regards, Dave

Thanks for your comments Dave. I agree with pretty much all you say in this and in earlier posts.

My comments relating to racist farang was in response to earlier posts. It makes my blood boil to see Thai people ladled xenophobic because of what the Immigration Dept. does or does not do. I hoped (perhaps too optimistically) that when some posters lable Thais xenophobic they are themselves guilty of the same crime. As to the use of “farang” and “TIT”, I agree, but I think it is, to some extent, not a question of not what you say, more a question of the way you say it.

I agree with you that Immigration has a long way to go before it gets things right. The subject of this thread is yet one more example. Given the widespread concern that it has raised, to say that a public statement (press release?) giving the definitive position would be helpful is an understatement.

The problem is that every time Immigration finds a hole in it’s system it puts a patch on it. The subject of this thread is one more example. By now the system has so many patches it is unstable, unfair and almost unworkable. What is needed is a complete revamp of the entire visa system. Perhaps I am asking too much. TIT (Oops!)

I understand people are worried by this. My wife is not far off 50 and so perhaps I am not as badly off as some. We will have to see what happens when the dust settles. Whatever happens the Thais are some of the nicest people on earth.

A sample reading of posts in this thread tells me that if I were Thai I wouldn't want most of these farang in my country either. I think they feel the same way about the country being flooded with farang as most of us farang do - enough is enough!

Could you please stop spamming this thread with your inane posts?

Nothing inane about it. This thread, along with a lot of other threads, is polluted with outrageously racist comments made by xenophobic farang. These comments by racist farang do nothing enhance the reputation of farang amongst ordinary Thais, not to mention the Immigration Department who apparently monitor this forum.

To deal with the subject of this thread - there is obviously something wrong with this (ou understanding of what is happening) or something more behind it that we do not know about. I am not referring to what has been done, but the way it has been done. I.e. Introduced suddenly, without notice and, it would seem, that offices outside of Bangkok have not been informed of the changes despite the apparent urgency. The lack of grandfathering is also odd. Normally Thai authorities are quite sympathetic in this respect. The answer is probably in the reason behind it; whatever that might be.

The best advice has already be mentioned more than one – don’t panic, but wait and see what actually comes out.

Many Consulates have always used a six month period for a two or more entry tourist visas.

Name one. Just so I can recommend it to friends.

More then 2 entries? I tried about 8 years ago to apply for a 3xTR in KL but they told me that because the visa only lasts for 3 months it was no point in giving out 3xTR.

Birmingham Hull - there's two.

Think you will find this is all to do with anti terrorism/money laudering. Banks and financial institutions the world over now want more information to open an account. Anyone tried opening a bank account in Thailand recently.

A shame, but it is a sign of the times and the kibd of world we live in.

Argentina does not detain visa overstayers. At least western tourist types and I am certain about that. I am sure there are others.

I really do believe Thailand is over zealous in the enforcement of these matters. 3 month address reports in person? Excessive. I don't why they are so over zealous but my theory is it is a symptom of xenophobia.

Yes! They are for real. No doubt about it. Beware and do all you can to avoid the sorry fate of this poor schlub,

I never said don't respect the rules and don't respect the total power they have. But I am saying, kicking a poor guy when he is down for such a minor thing is very unseemly.

I don't like to see people in trouble, but quite frankly some people ask for it. The moral is "when in Rome do as the Thais do". Overstay in Argentina you might be OK, but anyone who has been in Thailand 5 minutes konows how seriously such things are taken here. If you can't do the time don't do the crime. Simple as that.

call me greedy but, a retreat is a good thing for us now

Hi there Greedy. Sorry. Couldn't resist it.

Careful mate - This is irrelevant if you retire outside of the E.U. Essentially the UK defaults on its insurance program. Yes they pay the pension but it does not increase (over your entire lifetime), there have been European Court of Human Rights cases on this subject. Research the BBC web site to cross check.

This is only partly correct. In some countries outside of EU you can get increases, but which ones I am not sure. Unfortunately Thailand is not one of them.

A test case is going to European Court, possibly later this year, to challenge this. It is being taken up by a woman fromCanada. A similar case was thrown out by British courts some time ago and this is the next step. It is still not resolved, but watch this space and live in hopes.

My wife sent Australian dollars, using internet banking, to her sister in Thailand reently. We always send dollars to take advantage of the better exchange rate in Thailand than in Australia. We have done this many times to the Siam Commercial Bank with no hassle at all and the funds are usually in the Thai baht account the day after we make the transfer. This time it was to the the Krung Thai Bank and the funds did not appear. The sister went to her branch to be told it would take at least a month to clear the funds! My wife was having none of that and phone KT bank HQ and was told that there is a policy to ask the account holder if they want to keep the funds in dollars or change them to baht - this, even though the account number to which the funds are sent is a baht account! The problem here is that the bank makes no effort to ask the customer this question and holds on to the funds, (maybe for a month!), and coincidentally making some interest along the way. To be fair, after my wife's tirade the KT did phone her sister and promise to transfer the funds immediately.....we are still waiting...

Has anyone else come across this problem? How will it affect those of us who transfer funds to our own accounts in Thailand while we are overseas?

Should we change banks or are they all doing this?

Wontok

This is one area Bangkok Bank is good. Usually my money arrives (from Hong Kong) the same day; at latest the next day. Don't know how your internet banking works. I include an instruction on my transfer to the bank here in Thailand to exchange funds to Thai Baht.Never had a problem. (Shouldn't speak too soon I suppose.)

I have not heard anything about an onward air ticket being required by any person entering the country with out a visa,(30 day tourist visa on arrival) I do this quite often on an EU passport,has anyone on this forum been refused entry??

The letter below was in this mornings Nation

Immigration officials offer an unfriendly welcome to visitors

Thailand is a beautiful country with delicious food and a wonderful culture. Thais are also so friendly. To any foreigner though the people that ruin the image of the country are immigration. I leave my hotel, the receptionist and porters give me smiles, a student passing on the street gives me a smile, the taxi driver to the airport gives a smile, the toilet-cleaner gives me a smile, but when I get to immigration I get nothing but a look of contempt. Immigration officials are the first people that any foreigner meets when he arrives in a new country and Thai immigration really sends the wrong message across. Another foreigner told me lately that Thai immigration have to do a training course on being polite to foreigners. If this is true then I dare not imagine what they would be like otherwise.

Their new policy on giving out 30-day visas has changed matters so that you need to show a ticket out of the country. The problem is they change regulations without telling anyone in advance. Last week, I went to Cambodia by land to get a new 30-day visa and when I came back into Thailand I was refused entry because I didn't have my onward ticket with me I tried to explain that it was in Bangkok, but they were so rude and refused to allow an old man like myself back in because of a stupid policy. In his eyes I could have been left to rot in Cambodia with not a single dollar on me. In the end I had to phone my wife to ask her to fax a copy of the ticket through. I was very lucky.

Thailand's immigration officials are the most impolite, rude and arrogant that I have ever dealt with in Southeast Asia.

Tiger Trevor

If you arrive without a visa, the rule wants that you can show an air ticket out of the country within 30 days of your arrival.

This rule has been there for ages but has just recently being applied at 1 or 2 border points between Thailand and Cambodia used widely by 'eternal tourists' seeking to re-enter endlessly on 30 days stamp entries.

Some 'real tourists' get caught in the net. To avoid this rule, bettwer get a tourist visa before arrival in Thailand.

Most posts indicate problem is at land borders. Anyone had any problem at the airport?

Hmm...looks like the actual terms lie somewhere in the middle. From the HK Lands Dept. site:

http://www.landsd.gov.hk/en/service/landpolicy.htm

So in a nutshell:

Older properties with pre-existing longer-term leases are being honoured.

Properties built between 1985 and 1997 have leases expiring 2047, but can be extended for another 50 years.

Properties built after the handover have fixed 50 year leases which are renewable for another 50 years (but the govt still reserves the right not to renew!).

Never easy, is it?!

Sure is difficult sometimes. Interestingly I bought a flat in early 2002 and my lease expires 30th June 2047 45 years). The difference between theory and practice I suppose.

As far as Thailand is concerned, you could not plant HKs system here, because the Government does not own all the land. However there could be some mileage in something similar, especially if the Government found out that they could make some money.

For example owners of land could hand over the land to the Government in return for a long lease and the payment of rent. This would help house owners whose land is owned by a company with nominee shareholders. Existing condos might be problematic, but at the completion of new development the developer turns over land ownership to the Government and condo purchasers would get long leases. This might help Thai paranoia over foreigners owning land and provide the Government with income. 49% ownership of condos would become irrelevant. Rent need not be exorbitant. For example on 100 sq. mtr. flat in HK I pay about 15,000 baht a year.

I appreciate what I have said is very simplistic and I can see arguments against it. It could, however, provide a starting point for thought in resolving many problems that exist with the Thai housing situation at the moment.

Quite an interesting (if you like that sort of thing!) paper from one of the HK universities about the relative valuation of long-term (999 year) leases in HK versus short-term ones here:

http://www.citb.gov.hk/cib/psdas/content/d...aper_KWChau.pdf

A fairly meaningless paper. Conduit Road is not typically of the Hong Property market. There may well be a few longer leases (beyond 2047) left, but very very few.

There is not actually 50 year leases as such. If you buy a new property today the lease will run out on 30th June 2047 i.e. 40 years

Having lived in Hong Kong over 30 years and bought and sold proterty since 1989 as well as knowing Hong Kong people well, I can say a 40 year lease is very accepable. It is a liftime in the Hong Kong scenario. It will only become problematic when you get to the stage where a mortgage term will eceed the lease life (in fact banks willl not normally grant mortgages beyond the life of the lease). Typically mortgages in Hong Kong are 10 to 20 years so this will not start to be a problem until nearing 2027 and will not become critical until 2037. In fct the age of the property will be more of an issue until then.

I perhaps should have said almost all land have lease that expire in 2047, bu I can assure you that is the case.

dada - I must confess it is difficult for me to understand why anyone would now buy in Hong Kong, commercially Thailand is a far better bet.

I think HK is still not a bad place to invest. Foreigners can buy anything they like, and whilst properties there are all leasehold (the only freehold land in HK is St. John's Cathedral in Central - I'd love to know what that's worth now, at least in theory!), the leasehold is usually 999 years rather than the 50 as was mentioned above. There's no CGT, money is still pouring in from the mainland, and space is comparatively limited. Law is largely based on the the English model and at an everyday level, corruption is low.

The biggest downside I can see is the often-high entry price. Of course you could just buy REITs to gain exposure that way instead (and expect to see other property derivatives coming on-stream in the next year or so too).

I have owned a number of properties in Hong Kong. None of the leases go beyond 2047. There are a few exceptions in NT I believe, but I do not know details.

Until the Sino/British agreement few leases extended beyond 1997. This made banks jittery on the question of mortgages and of course property delopers in investing in new developments. This was one of the reasons why the British Government pushed the Chinese into talks on Hong Kong's future. When the leases were extended it was done unilaterally by the HK Government - no cost. Presumably that will happen as 2047 draws near, but nobody knows at this time.

HK is a good place to invest in property if you can afford it. Like anywhere else you need to understrand the market.

Some people in the business in Pattaya were recently predicting that farang ownership of condos would soon be increased to 70%, but that rumour seems to have died a death

CRUNCHER - I must confess I did consider the old trading port on the Chinese main land (all be it involuntarily by Chinese standards), but there all property is owned by the state and your right to continue to own it appears to be rubber-stamped.

Has the same happened of Hong Kong or was it always leasehold?

Thailand does offer free hold condominiums admittedly under a 49% rule.

Basically it has always been that way (there are a very few minor exceptioons in the New Territories). Leases used to variable, but after the handover to China in 1997 all leases were extended to 2047 on the basis that China promised no changes fo 50 years. What happens in 2047 is anyones guess at the moment.

The system works well, but prices - WOW!

I have been contributing to other threads on the Thai High end Condominium market, but do not wish to confuse issues so have started a new thread.

I note the 49% rule on legal foreign ownership of a Thai condominium. I do however have some questions that I cannot answer.

Is there a similar rule in Malaysia?

Is there a similar rule in Hong Kong?

Is there a similar rule in Singapore?

A lot of high-end Thai condominiums achieve day one 40-50% sales. Is this a coincidence?

As for Hong Kong there are no restrictions. If you have the money you can buy what you want, where you want and as much as you want.

All land in Hong Kong is owned by the Government. All flats, houses etc are effectively on leasehold or rather the land on which they are built is. Almost all leases are good until 2047. Of couse all flat, house owners etc pay Government rent every quarter. Could be the way for Thailand to go, but I doubt it.

Thanks Lopburi. On the ball as always

Can anyone please tell me the cost of getting a "Residence Certificate in Thailand" from the Immigration Department? The one that is needed for driving licences, bank accounts etc. I can find the form on their website, but not the cost. Also how long does it take?

For what I understand is that they are counting days and not entries.

Does anyone have a definite answer/clarification on the method of counting days/entries.

I am leaving for BKK in a couple of weeks and already have 3 stamps within the past 1/2 year, but far from 90 days as follows:

Entry 05 Oct 2006 - Depart 08 Oct 2006 (4 days)

Entry 12 Oct 2006 - Depart 15 Oct 2006 (4 days)

Entry 01 Feb 2007 - Depart 12 Feb 2006 (12 Days)

My next entry will be on 05 April 2007

You are allowed 90 days stay within 180 so you are fine for your next entry

On 5th April it will be 182 days since your first entry and in that time you will have stayed in Thailand 20 days. I am not sure how the 180 days rolls forward, but presumably, as it rolls forward you will be able to get 3 back to back 30 days entries.

This raises the question how the 180 day part of the equasion is going to work. Anyone any thoughts? Presumably you could alternate 90 days visa with one, or even 2, 30 days entries for ever?

I got a double entry visa for thailand but i need to move several time from Thailand to Taiwan.

Is it the re-entry permit still available?

Is it possible to get it in any immigration office?

Anybody has recent experience about this?

Thx everybody

YES!

Single 1000 THB, Multiple 3000 THB.

Also if you submit the form by e-mail you will get fast track service when you arrive at immigration (Bangkok)

Do you have the email address?

Also, if you have to exit the country twice in a short period of time (and don't want a multiple entry), can you get two single entries stamped into your passport before you use up one of them?

I am not still enterend in Thailand and i will have to enter and exit again after few days. I am searching a way to not fire my double entry visa staying there only 1 week.

Wich is the best way? How can i apply the form online?

Is it possible to get the re-entry permit in Samui Immigration office?

Thx everybody

This is a great forum

If you have unused entries on a tourist visa, can you enter Thailand on the 30 day visa exempt entry? This is useful if you want to stay a short time and save visa entries for longer stays. This might help OP and info on this would be useful

I used Air Asia to Macau, it was half price flight.

Of course I had to take ferry over which cost 120 hk dollars, but it drops you right in Kowloon or Central side (Central side for consulate), so coming from airport in HK you still have to pay something for taxi or train to town...

Airasia also had very late flights so if you plan it right you can pick up your visa and take ferry to Macau and then fly out (I think my flight was 10 pm)....

Good luck....

Thats an interesting way to get to Hong Kong, just checked the Air Asia website and i can get a return ticket Macua for 4,500 baht, flew last week with Emirates and i paid nearly 9k (still good deal) - what about the ferries from Macau, do they run all day / night? any info on them? does the same visa allow you to go to Macua and then Hong Kong and i take it you get visa on arrival in Macua? (Im a brit)

Any info on this route to get to Hong Kong would be good. Cheers.

Ferries run Macau to Hong Kong more or less round the clock. Night time might not be very frequent, but during the day they go every 20 to 30 minutes. There is an option at Macau Airport to get a ferry without clearing Macau immigration, but personally I wouldn't bother with that. Trip takes about 1 hour. Get the ferry to Central and not Kowloon for the Thai Embassy.

Make sure you tell the taxi driver you want the pier for Hong Kong. The other pier only serves China and is further away. Taxi ride should take about 20 minutes and cost about 40 patacas (about 180 baht). There is a small surcharge from the airport.- about 5 patacas I think, but I can't remember now.

Cost of the ferry is about 5-600 baht,but prices are higher after 6p.m.

With a British passport you will not need a visa for either Macau or Hong Kong.

If you have time take a look around Macau. It is an interesting place - food is not bad either. Of course there are the cassinos

Excellent post there by the OP.

How do i contact you as i am indeed in need of some sound legal advise.

Regards

Get a good lawyer...I have ben told that move the company to a lease hold with a safe nominee for that! BTW, the above comepany, Siam Legal, has a Thai Lawyer offer to set up a corp for a house purchase. Look you have, starting in 1 year, 1 year to get you corp in order..What is new is you can go to the slammer for this stuff...............

The posters above probabl don't have houses or interest/means to by one....this is serious business, one could get spanked for a lot of money on this deal! Again, lawyers are saying to get out of the corp and into a lease hold with 30 + 30...What is in it for the lease holder, you hjouse and land for their grand kids!

"good lawyer" is an oxymoron.

Not looking forward to wait in line for 15 minutes per passenger while immigration count and re-count the days !

A few months ago I was ridiculed for saying that I didn't want to be in the immigration line behind one of these cases. I do not think one poster agreed with me. Dgoes to show! Perhaps Immigratoion should consider separate queues for visa holders and those using "visa expemt entries"

G,day,

CRUNCHER ........you stated the following.....

You cannot live there simply because you have married a Hong Kong lady or you are over 50; no matter how much money you have or how big your income.

Totally disagree mate.

In my experiance. I married a HK lady. applied for an ID card and settlement visa. Was granted a 1 x year then 3 x year and now on my 3rd 3 x year visa

After a total time of 7 years i will (or could) have gained a permanent residency..

I have moved on in my life just recently divorced my HK wife and now settled in Bangkok (New Thai wife)

But my ID card and HK visa is still active. I only need to enter HK once in the current 3 year period to able to gain the permenant residency.

cheers,

lesdunbar

You are lucky. I know several who have been refused - unless you got in as a dependant perhaps. Perhaps things are different now. Problem is too many sham marriages caused problems. Mostly people from mainland, but also Philippines and Indian sub-cotinent. Trouble was HK Immigration was always being accused of being racist and so they tended to apply things accross the board.

Also, unless things have changed here as well you will be lucky to get "right of abode" If you visit just once in three years. You have to positively demonstrate that you regard Hong Kong as your home. Living in Thailand with a Thai wife and visiting once in three years this might be dificult. You also need to reside continuosly for 7 years. Where three years is relevant is that you you loose your right of abode if you do not visit every three years unless you have a good reason such as overseas education.

Sounds interesting and in Hong Kong's defense I can say that the rules are laid out for everyone to follow and with Thailand it seems more like a wink, nod and backhandlers are needed to get things done. Don't get me wrong, as I am sure that there is a level of corruption there. However with Thailand it seems like the levels of corruption run from top to bottom which, IMHO, has done a lot of harm to the country.

Copied from our friends at Wiki...

According to the Registration of Persons Ordinance, Article 177 of the Hong Kong Law, all people of age 11 or above who stay in Hong Kong for longer than 180 days must, within 30 days of either reaching the age of 11 or arriving in Hong Kong, register for a HKID.

Permanent Residency

...person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than seven years and has taken Hong Kong as his place of permanent residence...

How long does Permanent Residency take in Thailand? Or is the life of a Permanent Visa Runner the best way to go?

Last comment to all... when posting something you feel as fact, please spend a few minutes on Google to double check the info. The crack about needing an ID card after 30 days was easily verifiable and should have been posted correctly.

Have a nice day!

TheWalkingMan

Point about about the ID card taken. I stuck that in as an after thought. It is a bit early in the morning for me. Can't see what your point is about the Permant residency is. Domestic helpers are specifically exempted from this (racist?). They cannot get permanent residency. Any google search that says they can is wrong. It is difficult to reside in Hong Kong for seven years without working there. Some can do it, but not many.

Yes Thailand could make thing easier. Short term stays, up to 6 months, are easier in Hong Kong than Thailand, but those who complain about long term stays and work permits in Thailand need to put things into perspective.

Hong Kong ranked as the world's freest economy

Hong Kong - Hong Kong has been ranked as the world's freest economy followed by rival Singapore in a report released on Tuesday by a right-wing American think-tank, The Heritage Foundation.

Hong Kong's ranking comes despite criticism that its economy is dominated by a handful of powerful family-controlled monopolies and cartels, which not only control prices of particular goods but also block market access by competitors.

The ranking by the Washington-based organisation puts the former British colony at the top of its Index of Economic Freedom, for a 13th successive year, as it scores top marks in six of the index 10 factors.

Saying Hong Kong is "clearly blazing a trial for others to follow" the foundation and co-sponsors, the Wall Street Journal Asia, awarded the city's economy a score of 89.3, 1.6 points lower than last year.

"The way that Hong Kong (became) prosperous was simply through its free and fair playing field," said Mary Kissel editorial page editor for the Journal.

The above is part of a recent article in The Nation.

Many complain about Thai Immigration Laws and how they affect the economy here. Perhaps they should think how things work in the “world’s freest economy”.

You cannot stay in Hong Kong for years (or any time for that matter) doing “visa runs” every 30 days.

You cannot stay for best part of a year with a tourist visa.

You cannot live there simply because you have married a Hong Kong lady or you are over 50; no matter how much money you have or how big your income.

You cannot work without a work permit. Hong Kong Government policy is they will not give a work permit if a local person can and is available to do the job.

In connection with this last point this restricts people who can work to a small number of English teachers, professionals (bankers, lawyers, businessmen employed by banks, multi-national etc.) and “domestic helpers” (servants).

This latter group by far are the biggest group of foreign workers in Hong Kong typically they come from Philippines Thailand, Sri Lanka and Indonesia. By law they cannot vote. More importantly they cannot use the time spent working there towards qualifying for permanent residence. They cannot come to Hong Kong until the work permits are issued and have to return to their home country and get new permits if they change jobs. This takes up to two months.

You cannot stay in Hong Kong indefinitely by saying I can support myself working on the internet. You would need a work permit (which you would not get) and would be liable to pay tax.

If you stay in Hong Kong more than 30 days you must get a Hong Kong ID card and carry it with you at all times.

Thailand is not quite as bad as some make out.

Like it or not Baht Bus is here to stay, and I predict you won't see any metered taxi(s) in Pattaya apart from pre-bookings or drop offs from airport elsewhere. Acceptance is the key to happiness.

Lor - no you won't get the ride for 10bht in a metered taxi. Just imagine the same amount of taxi(s) roaming Pattaya as BKK.

No need to get rid of baht buses, they are useful. However, another layer in the public transport scene would be useful. Baht buses have their limitations (self imposed). It is, for example, almost impossible to get the 10 baht baht bus even on 3rd Road. The market would largely determin the number of taxis. i.e. low demand - low supply. A good start would be to allow Bangkok Taxis down here after bring a fare here to use their meters to pick up passengers whilst waiting for a fare back to Bangkok. Perhaps baht bus driver might just consider expanding the scope of their services at the same time.