CRUNCHER

thailand truly is "amazing".......lol

other than food and ladies, this place has no redeeming value

"I don't see foreigners returning to Thailand any time in the near future. Markets now have no confidence in the government."

Asia markets rebound, but Thai credibility hurt

Abrupt policy shift undermines investor faith in Thailand's new government.

December 20 2006: 7:05 AM EST

BANGKOK (Reuters) -- Thai shares bounced back on Wednesday from their biggest sell-off in 16 years after the government back-pedaled on currency controls, but the abrupt policy U-turn shattered confidence in its economic chiefs.

The stock market, which plunged 14.8 percent on Tuesday - its biggest one-day drop since Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 - ended 11.2 percent higher after the army-appointed government exempted stock buying from controls on short-term currency inflows just a day after imposing them.

Elsewhere in Asia, Hong Kong's Hang Seng gained 1.45 percent and the HSCC Red Chip fell 1.76 percent. Japan's Nikkei 225 gained 1.40 percent, while China's Shanghai Composite gained 0.38 percent.

The stunning about-face in Thailand in the wake of a foreigner-led rout that knocked $23 billion off Asia's worst-performing bourse this year rekindled memories of the 1997/98 Asian financial crisis and brought howls of derision from analysts.

"The one thing worse than an incompetent central bank is an incompetent central bank that flip-flops," said Bratin Sanyal, head of Asian equity investments at ING in Hong Kong.

Domestic investors were equally scathing in their criticism of the technocrats appointed by the military leaders who ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in a Sept. 19 coup.

"I'm stunned. They are truly incapable. Please, get the hel_l out," said 35-year-old businessman Chan Pornpipatkul.

The rally, spearheaded by big-cap stocks such as oil-and-gas firm PTT PCL and Bangkok Bank - owned in part by the foreigners who stampeded for the exit on Tuesday - was the market's biggest one-day jump since February 1998.

But most of the buyers were Thai, as international investors continued their retreat, selling a net $81 million of shares to go with the $700 million they dumped on Tuesday.

"Investor hel_l"Despite its recovery, the index was still 5 percent lower than when the Bank of Thailand (BoT) announced on Monday a drastic assault on the speculators it blamed for catapulting the currency 16 percent higher in 2006 against the dollar.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF), describing the baht measures as "too strong and far-reaching," welcomed the decision late on Tuesday to lift the restrictions for equity investments.

But by then Thailand's reputation in the eyes of international investors was in tatters.

IDEAglobal headlined a research note "Tourists' haven, investors' hel_l," as analysts poured scorn on Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula and his successor as central bank chief, Tarisa Watanagase, both appointed after the coup.

"They are proving themselves to be very unprofessional. Their actions are very irresponsible. They have totally lost credibility," said Catherine Tan, head of Asia Emerging Markets at Forecast in Singapore.

"I don't see foreigners returning to Thailand any time in the near future. Markets now have no confidence in the government."

Tarisa, appointed just two months ago, agreed with her former boss that equity investments should have been exempted from the rules and admitted that the sell-off had taken them by surprise.

"We had to reverse the measures as the market reacted more than we expected," she told reporters.

ABN AMRO cut its investment rating on Thailand to "underweight" and questioned how the economy was being run in the aftermath of the coup, Thailand's 18th in 74 years.

"Policy decision-making seems to be at odds with the workings of capital markets," the investment bank said.

Intervention questionedThe sell-off sparked brief fears of a repeat of the 1997/98 Asian financial crisis, triggered by a baht devaluation, and prompted falls in stock markets in the region, though they also recovered on Wednesday.

Bond yields were largely steady in Thailand's secondary market on Wednesday, with those on the long end falling slightly after central bank intervention, dealers said. Yields had jumped 20-40 basis points across the board on Tuesday.

"Why did they intervene in the bond market today? They should have known bond markets would fall after the baht measure," Forecast's Tan said.

The baht, the strongest Asian currency against the dollar this year, was trading around 35.8 per dollar, a decline of around 2 percent from Monday's 9-1/2-year high that triggered the BoT's leap to the defense of exporters.

The curbs were designed to rein in the baht's rise by forcing speculators to keep their money in the country for at least a year or face a hefty 10 percent penalty.

Trade-related deals and repatriation of funds by Thai residents were excluded. Pridiyathorn added equity-related transactions to the exclusions late on Tuesday.

Exporters had welcomed the curbs because a rising baht makes their goods less competitive on world markets and could reduce earnings repatriated from overseas.

Read some of our earlier - now closed - posts. Are you related to coco the clown?

Of more importance is to compare like with like. Could a Thai single male with a bit of money who like the Californian climate, enjoys Californian wines, fancies a bit of Californian ***** front up in California and be given the right to stay for 30 days without any visa? Could he stay for years provided that every 30 days he crooes the border into Mexico? I do not know the answer, but if he can you have a point. This seems to be what many farang regard as their absolute right in Thailand.

Unfortunate as it may be, it all comes down to wealth and qualifications.

For the sake of the argument, let's say that an average salary in California is $2.000/month. Now, take the ratio of a solid Thai salary 10k baht, and a western salary in Thailand 40k baht (4x), western salary out of Thailand 80k baht (8x).

Assume that the said Thai guy earns $16.000/mo outside of the U.S. and would be able to earns $8.000 /mo in the U.S.

I'd say it would be no problem for him to come and stay in the California for a long time. I know several people who hold 10 or 5-year tourist visas to the U.S.

Compare like to like.

But these 5 and 10 year US tourist visas do not give the king of residency rights in the states that many farang aare looking for in Thailand

within 2 days my wife had a 10 year multi tourist visa ... so it's not all bad news

When will Thailand offer something like a '10 year multi tourist visa' to farang married to Thai? ...or better yet, not discriminate based on whether a farang is married or not. Can't there be modicum of common sense in the equation? How about Thai immigration dept. set up a program for assessing each individual's qualifications. I think part of the reason is they're unsure of their English-speaking abilities (99% are uncomfortable talking with us on a serious subject), and their culture-based assumption that everyone lies (or at least bends the rules, or offers bribes) to get what they want.

I would be intersted to know what the 10 year multi tourist visa to US actually provides. Does it give the right to stay permanenly for 10 years? Does it give the right to work? What proof of financial status is required. It has been many years since I applied for a US visa and things have changed. One thing I had to provide was documentry proof that I was not going to stay permanently in US. I provided a letter from my employer giving details of my terms of employment, my wifes employment and my childrens schooling arrangements. In other words would a similar visa for Thailand be of use to a farang married to a Thai?

Unfortunately there has been a world wide trend in recent years to show little sympathy to granting residency to spouses. The UK is one of the leaders in this respect. It is certainly one area where the Thai authorities could, and should show some flexibility. My wife is not Thai so I do not have this problem. A system which separates families is not healthy.

For the rest I do not think the Thai authorities are doing much wrong.

Papakapbaan - Quote(BTW HENG, WHO CAN NOT SEE IT? THE XENOPHOBIA, the morbid fear of the white foreigner, of the round eyes............)unquote

The X word again. If a country introduces immigration policies that it believes it needs is xenophobic then just about every country in the world is xenophobic.

What is more I do not think that specific skin colour or shape of eyes has anything to do with the definition of xenophobia.

On the other hand coments like yours, in the way that they are made could be considered racist even xenophobic.

d44, please please please. You're a newbie and you don't understand ThaiVisa.

Members like to have a panic attack and rant and rave for a while, thinking the entire country is against them. Please don't ruin it by posting sensible examples of the world not having changed at all - it's not in the spirit of the forum.

Quite right bendix. I think this measure was instigated by the Immigration Department so that farang could have something to rant about other than the new visa requirements.

1. There is no such thing as a triple non immigrant visa for Thailand.

2. You must have your passport when in most countries so mailing it is not a good idea.

3. A visa issued without you in the jurisdiction of the Consulate would likely not be honored by Immigration.

You could also have pointed out that this is mindless stupidity. Entry/exit stamps will show the consulate that the passport holder is still (or should be) in Thailand. This could have all sorts of unpleasant consequences. That, however, would probably be well deserved. What concerns me is that such stupidity might cause the Thai Government to tighten the screws even more, thus making life harder for those who are prepared to play by the rules.

Checked the North Pattay Bus Station this morning. The Baht106 bus does not seem to run any more.

Do you mean the B106 bus from Soi Chaiyapruek in Jomtien no longer operates? Or was there also a B106 operating from Pattaya Nua that has ceased?

My understanding was that there was also a Baht 106 from Pattaya Nua, but have never caught it myself. The sign at Pattaya Bus Station was covered. Possibly because it never went from there. Sorry if I mislead anyone.

While I really appreciate the advice from this board, it is too bad that so many people must lecture.

While many are here for years, some of us, are not. I appreciate any advice I can get. I am by no means an expert, and have learned a lot through this site.

Thanks for all the advice I can get, and to those who just sit and complain and be negative, please bother someone else, a different site. Remember, a long time ago, you may have been new and not had all the answers. While here for only six months, I have a very, very good life here. I work hard, get well taken care of my my employer, but am not married and must take care of my girlfriends visa by myself which dictates spending lots of money outside of Thailand. I would much rather spend $2500 in Thailand, or one of the islands, but have to leave to get (hopefully) another VISA for her (tourist) outside. No complaints, guest in this country, and again, thank you for all your help to those who offer the useful help.....

I think you are a little ungreatful. You ask for advice and when you get it you complain. Suggest you try another forum next time - or just go to the website (it has been given to you twice ) and send them an E-mail.

Wrong Baboon. The policy was introduced by the elected goverment before it was removed.

CRUNCHER- The new policy as you correctly point out was indeed introduced by the previous administration. However if you read my post again, you will see I used the word IMPLEMEMTED by the present government. Not the same thing at all and I stand by what I said. You are quite right to pick me up on anything you dont agree with, however. TV would be pretty boring otherwise.

You have a point, but I love nit picking sometimes. I have just checked the OP. Seems like you and me are the only ones still talking about the new 90 days visa exempt entries. Some of the rest has gone over my head. I am a simple guy really.

Hello,

Have run search but have not see detailed answer....

Does anyone have detailed advice (similar to recent thread on KL or Penang?) on the process, ie getting to Thai embassy/consulate in Hong Kong. It will be for second back to back 60 tourist visa, for girlfriend, she is USA citizen, as am I (Work Permit Holder).

Thank you in advance...

I cannot comment specifically on a 2nd visa, but when you apply for double entry TV you need to show flight tickets for both trips.

For some reason I cannot open their website ( www.thai-consulate.org.hk )at the moment, but you can get an E-mail from that site. Sugges you E-mail and ask them. I usually find them very helpful. Location is in Central on Hong Kong Island. Convenient on all transport bus taxi maxi-cab MTR (subway). Applications in by noon (maybe 11.30 - check) can be collected 0930 next working day.

Checked the North Pattay Bus Station this morning. The Baht106 bus does not seem to run any more. The time table in the window of the booking offie is covered and suddenly the girl behind the window could not speak English when I asked her what the situation was.

I picked up Bell Travel Leaflet and it is front of me. Times -

From Airport,

0800

1000

1200

1400

1600

1800

From Pattaya

0600

0900

1100

1300

1500

1700

1900

I was told the fare was Baht 150, but did not confirm if price from the airport was the same Price is not on leaflet.

Leaflet sats the service is door to door to local hotels

It is obvious that transport to and from the new airport is still in the settling down process.

As I understand it the 30 day visa exempt entry was for the purposes of tourism. The fact that you could re-enter Thailand and get another 30 days was to encourage tourists to use Thailand as a base for touring South East Asia. The fact that the Thai Government has not enforced this for years is neither here nor there. It is still an abuse (and yes, I have used it myself). If the Thai Government wanted people to stay here permanently on this sort of arrangement they would issue 10 year visa exempt entry stamps. Or perhaps make a lot of ,money renewing the 30 days at the local immigration office for a fee.

Long term tourist (those spending say 3 to 9 months a year here) can get multi entry tourist visas. Those living here full time can various other visas/ work permits etc. provided they meet certain conditions. These visas seem to be easier to get is America, Europe, Oz etc. Presumably the Thai Government feels that people returning to these places at least once a year are not taking up permantent residency here (yes I know there are some exceptions, but it the norm that is important).

I cannot see much wrong with Thailand insisting that visiters to this country have the proper visas appropriate to their stay. Almost evry other country in the world does this. No one is saying farang are not welcome - just get your paper work sorted out.

Comment: Even for legitimate Asian tourists from rich Asian families, do you know how ###### hard it is for us to get a visa in "your" countries USA, Australia, Canada, NZ, etc???

180,000 Thais residing in Los Angeles alone...

How ###### hard is it?

I am sure your figures are correct, but what is the significance?

Of more importance is to compare like with like. Could a Thai single male with a bit of money who like the Californian climate, enjoys Californian wines, fancies a bit of Californian ***** front up in California and be given the right to stay for 30 days without any visa? Could he stay for years provided that every 30 days he crooes the border into Mexico? I do not know the answer, but if he can you have a point. This seems to be what many farang regard as their absolute right in Thailand.

The OP is obviously a bit intense, but he has a good point(s)

Wrong Baboon. The policy was introduced by the elected goverment before it was removed.

Now I know why people tell me to go to beach road to get some pussy

Ok so let a few bahtbusses stay, but only enough to serve the demand and allow in additional metered taxis. I have no problem paying 30-50 for a trip in town in a proper metered taxi. Similarly I have no problem paying 10 for a bahtbus ride if that is the price - but I refuse to be taken advantage of just because I have a different skin color. There are many Thais here who are richer than the farang average and who whould (if they would be bothere) be able to ride for 5 baht with the baht bus. This has nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with racism.

Sums it up nicely

Are you saying that there are not enough working Thais, plus all the thousands of tourists and expat residents to make asucces of a metered taxi service?

Well we'll never know if they don't try it out, will we? I'll bet there would be hundreds of taxis who'd like to give it a try if they were allowed to.

In Bangkok, taxis do fine, and probably 95 % of the customers are Thai. Don't forget they also have a very extensive bus network, plus the Sky tains and the underground. (for which most rides are 25 plus Baht or so a head)

Also, many of the middle class Thais drive their own cars - but there still plenty of Thais who use the thousands of taxis.

Very often, 3 or 4 Thais will share a taxi, which means the cost reduces to around 8 - 12 Baht per head.

People looking for a short or medium distance ride on the Beach Road/second road and other regular baht bus routes will still mainly use the baht buses, but meter taxis would come into their own for bespoke journeys outside of these areas, and also late at night; in the same way as taxis are used in BKK away from the Skytrain and underground routes.

You know it makes sense

Exactly. If there is no demand tazis will not survive. I think they will survive.

There is not enough choice. Baht buses are OK (just about) for the limited routes they operate. I enjoy walking, but no everyone can do much walking. Motor cycle taxis are dangerous - Russian Roulettte is safer. The buses would have done better if properly organized and run.

What other choice is there but taxis?

If there is no official price list for a service, it cannot be considered dual pricing as there is no official price.

It's the same in any country. Any service that is not officially priced will vary and be open to negotiation.

It's the responsibility of the local councils to force the baht buses to issue a fare structure for their services. Until that happens they can ask whatever they like, and as long as people pay their asking price, that is the price.

Agreed. Either there should be a standard charge, set by the authorities with a table displayed in the vehicle or each driver can set his own rates with the fare displayed in the windscreen. The law of supply and demand will take care of the rest.

I do not mind paying the market rate, but the situation where a rich Thai businessman/lawyer/doctor etc pays 5 baht because he is Thai and a farang managing to survive on a pension pays 10 baht just because he is a farang cannot be considered equitable.

The only thing I complain about is a warm beer.

Us Aussies can't stand a warm beer

Even as a Brit I am full of sympathy with your view (some POHMs are civilized). But which is worse - warm beer or no beer?

There is nothing so drab and nothing so dreer

as to stand at the bar of a pub with no beer.

If you live in Pattaya, you learn the correct fares to pay with a little experimentation. I still contend it is irrational to pay double when it is not necessary. Do you pay double for a bottle of milk at 7-11? Of course not. Who are you supporting by paying double when it is not necessary or even expected? I will tell you who. You are supporting the baht bus mafia. Baht buses are my primary means of transport. Sometimes I pay 5 baht, sometimes 10, sometimes 20. I know when to do this. Any intelligent person can do the same. I am never confronted in any way about this and don't expect to be in future. The reason I am against paying more than I have to is actually that I would like Pattaya to someday have the OPTION of legal taxi meters like Chiang Mai and Bangkok. Who stops this? The baht bus mafia. So I will not overpay a MAFIA.

Another factor is that there no TRANSFERS in the baht bus system.

Not having some taxi meters on the streets of Pattaya/Jomtien is actually quite a bad situation. Perhaps you are having a medical emergency and want a quick aircon taxi to the hospital. Perhaps it is raining heavily and you don't wish to get drenched in a baht bus. Pattaya needs taxis!

OK, now that I have vented, I would like to say that nine times out of ten (when it isn't raining heavily or you aren't stuck in traffic breathing in heavy fumes) the baht bus system is convenient, cheap, and sometimes even a pleasure. Very entertaining people watching. And compared to Phuket we have got it great! But it could be better yet, with the option of a limited number of taxi meters.

Thank you for writing this - saved me the trouble.

A word of caution to all baht bus customers: Beware of pickpockets.

I pay 5, 10, or 20. Depends on the distance. Have had only 1 altercation in 20 years.

JingThing and Tammi said it all really. When I pay 5 baht for a short tripI will pay 10 if the driver asks (almost never happens). I do this before things get out of hand or it becomes a matter of face. I know this is wrong in principle (if you have to pay double because you are a farang this is racism pure and simple), but I do not feel that strongly to make a big fuss.

THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND

Ambassador: Zhang Jiuheng

Address: 57, Ratchadapisake Road, Bangkok, 10310

Tel: +66-0-2247-7554

Fax: +66-0-22468247

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: http://www.chinaembassy.or.th/eng/

Google provided the above. Sugggest you phone, fax or E-mail them. I'd like to know how you get on.

Not sure where you are in China, but if you can go back via Hong Kong or Macao you can get one from China Travel Service next day (even the same day some times) The quicker the service the more you pay

We go directly from Guangzhou and the same way back. Can any tourist agent in Pattaya make visa, while we're having a blast around Pattaya, because we didn't plan to stay in Bangkok!!!

Sorry Andy. Can't help with that one. Can only repeat conact Chinese Embassy. They may know which agent they deal with.

As said you have a retirement (long stay) visa of the multi entry type and upon entry into Thailand you will receive a one year permitted to stay stamp each time while the visa is valid. So as said up to almost two years can elapse before you are required to extend your stay at Immigration. Just remember that once the visa expires you require a re entry permit to keep your stay alive.

Will remove your JPG.

Presumably this is what is comonly called a 12 months multiple entry visa? Or is it some other type?

i arrived here oct 20th midnight. i did my first border run with a friend last nov. 8 then 2nd border was yesterday.

That would indeed leave you with 11 days remaining out of 90 days were you to stay in Thailand for the entire period of your current entry stamp. Note that Thai immigrations has jumped the gun a bit by writing down 11 days left as there is nothing to say that you will use the entire duration of the current entry stamp, in which case 11 days would be inaccurate.

You know what this all reminding me of? The con artists who trick cashiers into making them give incorrect change by swapping out a 20 and a 50 or a 100. Running the numbers this way and that until the cashier is so befuddled by the exchange, they end up handing over cash incorrectly. I wonder if the same astute con artist could go to the Imm. official and say, for example, I have 11 days marked down as left to go, however, I'm departing before my 30 days are up so can I have those 11 back plus the additional ones I have for leaving earlier?" followed the next day with "I'm coming back to Thailand before I was planning to so I'd like to give back the 11 days but claim back 2 days from the earlier total because I've entered before I thought I was going to. Could you put down the number of days I have left as 28?" followed by a departure from Thailand the following day, "Yes, It's me again. I'm sorry, but I have to leave Thailand unexpectantly. Now, I have 28 listed on my passport, so I'm hoping you'll give me back those 28 days plus the 30 I came in with yesterday on that new stamp, but I'm not using because I'm leaving today unexpectedly." Next thing you know, he's got the number 58 written in his passport where previously he had 11. Or something akin to all the above. With these number games they're playing, I see opportunity for a skillful manipulator to turn things all around on a hoodwinked Imm. official...

SrirachaJohn - Yeh. It is going to be chaos at immigration counters. I have said before on this forum that sure do not want to be behind one of these cases in the immigrationb queue. I shall be there all day unless I get arrested for losing my cool.

God grant me the courage to change the things I can,

The serenity to accept those I cannot,

and the wisdom to know the difference.

This applies where ever you are in the world and Thailand is no exception.

I understand where FourBaht is coming from. There is a world of difference between speaking up about something you are unhappy about and the attitude o some people who seem to think everything in Thailand should change to suit them because it is the way thing are done in their own country.

I'm living in China and have residence permit for foreigners. My friend's coming to visit me and we're heading to Pattaya,but the problem's that - he got chinese business F visa in Russia with one entry. We planned to go to Thailand on December 30, but he's arriving in China on the 23-rd. The common practice in China will take 5 working days to 1 week to get new visa and they don't provide it faster, even for extra RMB! We can submit all the documents only on 25. Of course I'll try to push immigration department to get it faster - we'll provide some explanatory documents,but who knows...this is China!!!

In case if we're behind the schedule, can anyone advice where in Pattaya can we apply for the chinese visa and how long time will it take to get one?

Thx!!!

THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND

Ambassador: Zhang Jiuheng

Address: 57, Ratchadapisake Road, Bangkok, 10310

Tel: +66-0-2247-7554

Fax: +66-0-22468247

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: http://www.chinaembassy.or.th/eng/

Google provided the above. Sugggest you phone, fax or E-mail them. I'd like to know how you get on.

Not sure where you are in China, but if you can go back via Hong Kong or Macao you can get one from China Travel Service next day (even the same day some times) The quicker the service the more you pay