anrcaccount

Fixed it for you: "And they are not set up to deal with foreigners with remitted income."

No new laws began this year, either. With your logic, if you were remitting your social security same year earned, you should have filed last year and the others before that. This is a prime example of why this whole "tax thing" is just ridiculous.

Did you file last year? Guessing no. Let this serve as an example of what not to do. You would have been much better, doing nothing.

Interesting, this is similar to a number of reports received. Seems some RD officials are simplifying the regulations to: If you are from a country with a double tax agreement = no need to pay Thai Tax or get a Tax ID. That'll work well for most of us, roll with it , I say................!!!

OK, I stand corrected, one individual managed to pay a hefty 3774 THB. I wonder what the income was processed as on the return, looks like we'll never know, as the paperwork was not received.

Thank you OP for sharing your experience, I do mean this. It looks as if you're one of those rare individuals who seem compelled to comply (over comply), "just in case" , BUT conveniently, owe zero tax! Why is it that every single report of anyone actually filing a Thai tax return....... seems to result in not actually paying anything, or even getting a refund? Again, we see not a single baht of tax paid on foreign income remitted to Thailand.............

This has absolutely nothing to do with the TRD or Thai taxation. They have nothing in their remit, even remotely related to this. This is your individual, speculative future concern, that someone (less polite than myself) could validly describe as fearmongering.

I'm yet to see an "official announcement from Thai officials on these matters" . If you have them, please share. All I've seen from the TRD is the POR/PAW internal directives and a single infographic. I don't think the practical reality has changed at all.

Nope, if it's exempt, you do not report it.

That's the way to go for US nonresident alien investors. In a year being non tax resident in Thailand, not only you can sell and remit asset proceeds covering one or more years living expense, but also set in stone end-of-year offshore accounts cash balances for later tax free remittances. Depending on one's wealth this strategy could cover many tax exempted years. Sure, this is rock solid, couple of thoughts: First, if you don't want to leave Thailand to execute this, it seems you simply sell, rebuy something else, sell it at cost and remit. Also rock solid, you can prove the source of the remittance as the proceeds of the sale of a fund/bond/some kind of asset/watch with no gains. Remittance of original capital is not taxable. Second , let's acknowledge the nonsensical ludicrousness, that Thailand will allow you to remit as much as you want in one year, tax free, as long as you aren't there more than 179 days. Then, the next year when you want to stay there full time (huh, maybe to spend / 'invest' the funds) you'll be taxed if you remit more in! Third, 'setting in stone offshore cash balance ', that's an interesting way of putting it. Do you think an offshore cash balance as at 31/12/2023 for example of $500K, means you can remit $500K to Thailand any time in the future tax free? ( regardless of what happens to that $500K itself) . I guess, even if in reality you lost the entire $500K on black at the roulette table on 01/01/2024, you can still show that bank statement, and send the funds from any other source, including technically assessable income. Remittance taxation is a joke, right?

No, I disagree anything has 'radically changed'. Nothing has changed, apart from 2 internal directives being released. No new laws have been passed. No new enforcement related directive have been issued, no media releases have been issued. There is zero evidence the TRD has changed their focus or intention to enforce any taxation on foreign remittances. The TRD haven't stated anything is changing. There's no evidence any 'priorities or targets' have changed. The main ones making noise are the (IMO predatory) expat tax firms that have sprung up- I find their 'infotainment' as another poster nicely puts it, equally specious. I'm still, yet to see a report of any significant foreign remittance, actually being taxed.

Not shooting the messenger, I just don't believe the message is accurate. As I said, if this was the case, these remittances would have been assessable every year, for many years. The updated POR internal directives make no difference in this situation. Where was the 'Slick Talking Brit in a Blue Suit' ( or any equivalent) in 2021, 2015 etc when he could have been filing expat tax returns based on Roth/Traditional IRA remittances? Worth repeating, IMO anyone actually paying Thai tax on these remittances, given the many structuring options, is ill-advised.

If the TRDs position is that Roth IRA remittances were taxable, they'd have been taxable every year for the past 20+ years. So, what's changed? The POR updates have no relevance to this, if it's considered pension income it's always been remitted same year earned so should always have been taxed. You think anyone has ever paid tax on an IRA Remittance to Thailand? Why are people seeming to rush in to be he first to do so? The mind boggles.

Hang on. Think. Have you asked Expat Tax if they've ever filed a Thai tax return that includes declaring remitted Roth IRA withdrawals as foreign income? People have been remitting Roth IRA withdrawals to Thailand for many years now, if their position is accurate, they should have always been considered same year income and taxed, right? ( Newsflash, this hasn't been happening) What they're relying on here, is the IRA wrapper characterization being considered pension income. This is indeed the case in some countries where they consider a Roth IRA withdrawal simply as pension income. Do Expat Tax have a ruling from the TRD, that defines any ROTH IRA withdrawal as pension income? Or a ruling that defines the difference between remitting original capital and income? Let's be clear, a Roth IRA consists of contributions (income earned pre 2024, often over many, many years) , plus earnings on those contributions. Taxing the entire remittance would be taxing income earned prior to 2024. I cannot see this holding up in a legal challenge, given POR 161/2. In any case, there are multiple other simple ways to handle this, if it does become the TRD's position: A- Sell the IRA, buy a non pension asset with the IRA proceeds overseas, sell that asset immediately at cost, remit the proceeds. Not liable for Thai tax, no gains remitted. B- Remit the IRA proceeds as a gift C- Remit the IRA proceeds in a year you are non resident ( not ideal , not really a good 'structuring' work around but worth mentioning) Any tax advisor worth their salt would bring options like this to the table.

Finally, an interesting one. I'm sure there's thousands ( if not tens if thousands) of foreigners who did exactly the same thing last year, and transferred technically assessable income (capital gains on stocks or property sold) to pay for the Thai property. Your plan to not file is certainly not controversial, IMO it's the sensible option. I bet 95%+ of people in the same position, will not file. If you do try to file, you'll be one of, if not the first person, who has ever paid Thai tax on a remittance to purchase property, and we'll read about it in the news, I'm sure!

Spot on, couldn't agree more. The same goes for any non tax advantaged brokerage account, oh I see you mention that below. Any moderately wealthy Thai foreign investor ( of which there are many) would challenge being taxed on this principle ( not the IRA itself normally!) , wait and see, if they ever actually try to tax it. Yep, IRA or not, doesn't matter, value at 12/31/23 is pre 2023 income. Tax that, TRD cannot. If I had to guess I'd say the "advisors" are simply taking the easiest/most conservative route because they simply don't have the knowledge, the clout with the TRD, or the precedent to do anything else. Even the TRD itself probably doesn't know how they'd treat this kind of income yet. From the real world reports we are seeing posted here, anything beyond a standard Thai sourced income return is already too difficult. I still haven't seen a single credible report of foreign remitted income actually taxed. The status quo remains - foreigners who don't work in Thailand, don't pay tax in Thailand.

Thanks, but hang on, I'm confused with what you've described, I hope you don't mind if I ask you to clarify, if this is too long to reply to, feel free to PM? What do you mean by this? Do you mean you sold all of your stocks prior to 31/12/2023 and held it in cash? Remembering, investments are comprised of capital + gains anyway. Every cent of your balance, regardless of what that balance was comprised of, as at 31/12/2023, consisted of income prior to 31/12/23. Sorry, can I clarify your example please? : 31/12/2023- you have a brokerage account with $1m USD worth of stocks in it Sometime in 2024 - you sold all of these stocks ( what did you sell them for? $1M, $1.2M, 900K???) So, you don't need to pay any tax on remittance of funds up to $1M.......? ( in fact, your $1M of stocks may have been purchased for $600K 5 years ago and grown via capital gains to $1M as of 31/12/2023) Remittance of original capital of an asset is definitely not taxable. The idea of 'savings' doesn't actually exist. The only lack of clarity is what constitutes the figure of the 'original capital' , and how the value of that capital on the 31/12/2023 is seen by the TRD. I don't hold with the view that it needs to be in cash, it doesn't pass a logic test, many stocks and funds are almost equally liquid. OK, so what you did confirm is that cash as of 31/12/2023 would be exempt, if it is held in a bank or a brokerage account, in cash.

There would certainly be people who have already done this in 2024, i.e. sold a high value property overseas somewhere where no tax was levied, and remitted those funds already to Thailand to buy a property. I guarantee this has occurred, many many times, already. The first case of anyone ACTUALLY having declared this to the TRD, then paid the Thai tax on such a remittance, will be all over the news. Can you imagine the story, the media would have a field day!!!

Nice report, thanks for the effort. On Q6 - I'm assuming this refers to the balance of a brokerage account comprising stocks / funds held as at 31 December 2023? Or, was it a cash account held at a brokerage?

Lets get real. The vast majority of foreigners remitted income whenever they felt like it, and none of them ever paid any tax on the foreign remittances. The idea that people 'relied' on the year after remittance rule is not real, because it never needed to be tested, therefore it was never relied on. There's no sign or evidence that the internal directives of 161/2 have caused any change in enforcement and operation, i.e. they are not 'chasing after foreigners'. IMO, the vast majority of foreigners will not file any Thai tax return this year, despite a large % of them being technically required to, and there'll be no consequences for those who didn't file. Just like last year, and the 10 years before that, when a large % of them ( remitting same year income) were technically required to, didn't, and there were no consequences. T

There's a old saying that applies to you, and the vast majority of foreigners in Thailand, when comes to filing a tax return. I think this saying is applicable for both the foreigner, and the Thai TRD. "More trouble than it's worth"

Thanks for another real world report showing the TRD have no real interest in actually processing returns for foreigners that include foreign remitted income. IMO, and I think objectively on the balance of common sense, you'd have been better to do nothing.

Your arguments completely fail a simple logic test. If you needed to declare all your remittances, and then prove what wasn't exempt, that would have been the case last year, and the 10 years before that. The POR/PAW internal revenue department directive is the only change. There is no change to "The push on Tax residency". There are no reports of any change in TRD operational or enforcement policies.

You don't need to be anywhere near that cunning/complex. Remittance taxation is a joke. You can buy any asset from the proceeds of the IRA sale and then resell at cost, immediately, no need to wait a year, remit the proceeds, non-assessable/exempt. Wait, even better idea, straight from the mouths of the TRD, WATCHES are not taxable. ( you saw the video!) So, sell your $10K IRA, buy a $10K watch, sell the watch for $10K ( even $9.5k, take the hit) , remit, non-assessable/exempt!

Well said. I'm yet to see a single report of any foreigner, paying any tax, on any foreign remitted income. IMO, it's simply not happening, and the vast majority of 'expat' tax residents will not even file a return, if I had to guess, 90% +. The first case that's published of anyone paying tax on their funds transferred to buy a house or condo, will be very newsworthy. There must have been thousands of foreigners who did exactly this, using 'technically assessable' income, sometime in 2024. How come we haven't heard of a single case on here? Did no one buy a home / condo / even a car last year? Where's the reports of someone trying to declare the gain on the sale of property ( or other investments) sold overseas, remitted to buy property in Thailand?