anrcaccount

I don't care what is said in another thread, prove it to using the links I supplied earlier, or othe TRD sources. Right, so you don't care what another members professional advice stated, OK then. Where you said this: "The op is the one who remits the income, remitting it to a third party doesn't make it suddenly not assessable" Do you have professional advice or any sources, that support your opinion on this as it relates to a gifting situation? None of the links you provided, state anything, regarding any form of tax liability, for giver of the gift.

Based on the professional advice received and shared by another member, it's absolutely possible, using the parameters the OP outlined. Unless you have differing professional / official sourced advice to share, I'd suggest this is the best source available. Here is the link to the thread again, if unclear:

NO! Nowhere is it said in the TRD Code that there is a TEDA for the giver of the gift! The problem with this topic in this forum now is the extent to which other posters try and recite partial knowledge incorrectly, correcting those mistakes take more time than answering new questions.. Yes, in this case, it's partial knowledge that directly contradicts professional advice received and reported by other members. Based on professional advice received and reported by others - it's possible, with the right structure, to do exactly what the OP proposed, with no Thai tax obligation for either the giver of the gift, or the recipient. TEDA is irrelevant. The giver need not declare anything, has no liability as they did not receive the funds, and the receiver has no tax liability, as the funds received were a gift. See page 1 of this thread about halfway down:

Yes, but the right construct would be to gift only non-assessable funds to her Thai account. Otherwise, you could logically claim that the 2 million of current year income remitted directly to a car dealership account to purchase a vehicle is not taxable as remitted income as it technically never went into your account. Different situation, this isn't a gift (unless it's buying your wife that car, in which case it is a gift!) . Although, I await with glee reports of the first people trying to pay tax on top on their foreign funds remitted to purchase vehicles and real estate in Thailand, don't worry, you will read about it in the media, I am sure!!! A good discussion on gifting that you originated occurred, here: Others have different advice re: being able to send gifts directly to a Thai account. Anyway, the overseas sending is valid IMO.

That would technically still be potentially taxable for you, depending on whether remitted funds are identified as assessable. Regardless of what account the funds are deposited into, they are still under your control when they cross the border, so the remittance is yours. You remit, you pay tax if due. Wife does not pay under 20 million, 5% over that. Some advisors recommend gifting to an offshore account in the wife's name. Would be non-taxable for you (depending on your home country gifting rules) as giver, and non-taxable for your wife until she remits to Thailand, and then would still fall under gift receiving rules for her. On gifting - get professional advice. In Thailand you are assessed and taxed on funds remitted to yourself or earned by yourself in Thailand. If the funds are not remitted to you or earnt by you, how can they be taxed? Nothing has hit your Thai bank account. In my understanding, with the right construct, it's possible to gift EITHER to an overseas account of your wife (and she subsequently remits that Thailand, as you have stated), or directly to her Thai account, with zero Thai tax implications for the giftor.

I only comment on a small number of your wilder observations, don't have the time to follow nearly all of them, too prolific! On topic, you said: The problem here is that whilst you know your remittance is not assessable, TRD doesn't, unless somebody tells them. All they see is a remittance that has no corresponding tax return, which is why I believe non assessable funds will need to be reported, as they are in other countries. Non assessable funds will not need to be reported. That's a very strange assertion, that means you believe every single remittance into any Thai bank account needs to be reported. You can see multiple other members already disagreeing with you here. I thought 'ludicrous', was apt to describe that. Secondly, the TRD won't "see a remittance with no corresponding tax return". They will only see, what is submitted to them in a self declared return. Could the TRD get detailed access to a foreigners Thai bank accounts in an audit situation, yes I'm sure they could, but that's not the point.

Hold up , I wasn't replying to you. I agree with what you said here in italics below ( apart from the TRD probably contacting you, they won't!) It was the reply to your post in bold below I was replying to.

It is YOU, the taxpayer, who files the tax return and must state whether the income you have declared is tax assessable or not, when it was earned and who MUST be able to prove what you say, if audited or required. So you better hope there's a way to prove it or you're in trouble. https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html If you ever wonder why you're accused of "fearmongering" (apart from the constant stream of thousands of posts on tax) it is statements like this. Have you got real life examples to share of Thai taxpayers getting in trouble, and what kind of trouble, for not being able to prove / disprove foreign income and when it was earned?

The problem here is that whilst you know your remittance is not assessable, TRD doesn't, unless somebody tells them. All they see is a remittance that has no corresponding tax return, which is why I believe non assessable funds will need to be reported, as they are in other countries. Of all the opinions you prolifically share, this is up there with the most ludicrous. So you're now of the belief that every single remittance into Thailand will need to be reported? And, the TRD will 'see' these? IMO, beyond a joke. Another poster, who has already filed their return (ignoring non assessable funds) stated it well in a post above: "The taxpayer determines which of the funds remitted are income, and which portion of the income is assessable. Only that self-determined assessable income would be declared. With the current tax forms, there is no way to distinguish assessable vs. non-assessable funds. Anything declared is considered to be assessable, and taxable."

A very polite way of saying: "this is absolute drivel not worth the paper/ screen it's printed/viewed on, and should be ignored by anyone with half a brain".

Thanks for providing your own case, but I think you missed the point of my examples. Did you take professional Thai accounting advice on this method or you are making your own interpretation? Have you ever declared foreign rental income remitted in the past? I cannot see logically how what you suggest is possible. Anything remitted is net by definition , to declare it as gross and then apply deductions makes no sense. What you are proposing to do here is declare the same gross income in 2 countries, then taking 2 separate sets of deductions on the same income, using a different method for each country. It doesn't seem logical or workable. I think- the Thai rules for rental income are written for Thai sourced, and have never been applied to foreign sourced remitted, and as written cannot be workable for foreign sourced rental income, remitted. On mortgage interest, many countries allow this as 100% deductible expense. UK used to have this until 2017, now there's a tax credit system of calculation. For example if your property was mortgaged and in a 100% deductible expense environment, you could then find yourself with 0 profit, very common for investment property . Then, on remitting, using your gross income method, you would be asking Thailand to charge tax on the gross. It does not compute.

I'm not sure this is accurate in terms of it applying to remitted foreign rental income. Not arguing for the sake of it, but it just doesn't seem to be workable. What about partially remitted foreign rental income? How do you declare that "gross"? What can be used as "actual expenses"? Mortgage interest for example....where are the eligible expenses listed for the "actual" method? Example 1 A foreign rental property rents for 30000 gross. Expenses are 15000 ( foreign rates/property tax, maintenance, insurance, property management fees). Net 15000 10000 of this is remitted to Thailand. How would this be computed? Example 2 A foreign rental property rents for 30000 gross. Expenses are 30000 ( foreign rates/property tax, maintenance, insurance, property management fees, PLUS mortgage interest). Net 0 10000 of this is remitted to Thailand. ( Other offshore funds used to cover the property expenses) How would this be computed? How can you deduct an actual foreign expense against income remitted to Thailand - it just doesn't logically add up. I haven't even mentioned that tax is already likely to be paid on the net income, in the country where the rental property is located. Remitting the rental income as gross - doesn't seem to be workable or logical.

Very well said. The first time anyone actually pays PI tax on top of a real estate purchase due to a foreign remittance - it'll be all over the news. IMO resulting in an immediate backpedal. Many real estate purchases are funded by the sale of real estate, which if remitted, technically liable for capital gains tax. IMO absurd, to think this will be applied. Condos are one thing, think of a luxury villa, easily 30-50m THB in some regions, tax on top of that would be an absolute deal breaker.

A simple answer: Don't file a tax return.

Fair call, but 35% return in 6 years isn't great, you'd have done a lot better parking in an SP500 fund. The point stands, that generally, Thai condos are a poor investment. Having said that, Khao Kad is a nice spot, great views, quiet, isolated...apart from the massive construction noise..... but anyway, each to their own.

Yes. Fair enough and I get your point. Would note a couple of things: First, there's no evidence to suggest any new enforcement of an old law that's had an internal interpretation change. IMO if TRD was planning to enforce any taxation system of foreign remittance, there would have been much more guidance/direction released. Second, while I'm sure FIFO would be an acceptable method, would caution you relying on (likely non sourced) advice of an agency that sprung up in October 2023 (assuming based on your other posts) , and has possibly not ever filed a Thai tax return, almost certainly not one including any foreign remitted income. What about LIFO?

Well said - I don't always disagree with your comments - everything is for sale in Thailand.......if the price is right!

Surely you can see the irony here of: Trying to rely on a decade year old media article as a source... for a remittance rule that's never been applied... where a bunch of people are trying to preempt and voluntarily calculate their own taxation payments..... In a complete absence of any real clarity from the actual revenue authority..... As a Thai would say - JING LOR??

If anyone ever actually pays tax on a foreign remittance to purchase a Thai property, it'll be all over the news, and I guarantee there will be push back!

Yeah, 95% is a bit funny....... It's probably more likely to be 98% of expats not filing in 2025!

11,000 issued already. Flying off the shelves. Probably the best visa in terms of benefits vs eligibility vs cost that Thailand has issued in many years.

IMO POR 162 has nothing to do with “cash in the bank”, or the manufactured idea of “savings”. Haven't seen the word or concept of "savings" in the PORs or anywhere in the TRD. The only reference is to exempt INCOME earned prior to 2024 from being assessable upon remittance to Thailand. I'm yet to see any clear evidence to disprove that any form of investment balance as at 31-12-23 (be it stocks, bonds, managed funds, ETFs, cash, real estate, pension fund or any tax advantaged vehicle like an IRA, gold, etc) may be considered "prior income" and remitted to Thailand as exempt, non- assessable. The 31-12-23 balance of any of these investments is compromised of capital and income earned pre 2024. Neither of these are assessable.

Extremely well said. Imagine the first case of an expat selling a property in their home country (assume big capital gain exempt in that country ) and buying a Villa in Thailand, let's say 30M THB, then getting slugged another 10M THB in tax for the privilege of the purchase, by self-filing a Thai tax return..... That'll be all over the news! What everyone seems to forget is, for many years, many have been remitting foreign income earnt same year to Thailand, and no tax returns have been filed, no consequences. Apart from a few "compliance crusaders" and a small number of other individuals (including those taken advantage of by the predatory tax agencies that have sprung up), I'd take a wild guess that 95%+ of expats will not file a Thai tax return in 2025 (despite possibly being technically required to).

As was very well said by someone else, we've still not seen any NEW enforcement of the OLD tax laws. IF and WHEN we do, that'll be newsworthy. Otherwise, it's status quo, which is, foreigners who don't work in Thailand, don't pay tax.

In Thailand............... Recording the Incident >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Resolving the Incident