K2938

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

With perhaps, the exception of the LTR allowing one to self insure for Health insurance.   Being able to show the equivalent of $100K US$ in cash, in a bank account anywhere in the world,

True, but even there the BOI appears to be kind of immune to economic logic.  If you show them a brokerage account worth a zillion dollars, they will say this does not meet the self-health insurance criteria since it needs to be in cash even if you could easily sell the shares at any time or take out a margin loan against them hugely exceeding $100k USD.  Also, they even reject if the $100k USD in cash is in a brokerage account in cash, insisting it needs to be a bank account as far as I know.  So they just love to tick boxes and if the situation does not fully meet this they will reject things even if they are economically vastly superior.

1 hour ago, MistyBlue said:

"Greeting from LTR Visa Unit.

If your income does show in your tax report such as SA100, then it is possible to accept it as part of your passive income."

 

As only the interest part of a purchased annuity shows up on a UK SA100 tax return  (a tiny % of the overall income amount of a purchased annuity) then it would seem to rule it out.

 

If there are any reports in the field of anyone applying and attempting to use a purchased annuity would be interested hear of experiences.

I would recommend you to talk to them again about this.  They should accept an annuity.  Regarding their answer whoever wrote this just did not get that since this is already your money, you of course will not pay tax on the capital part being returned to you.  Point this out to the BOI - politely - and see what they say.  Best to visit in person if that is possible for you.

If you need an additional argument, tell them that they also accept Roth IRAs in the U.S. as far as I know and they are also tax-free.

P.S.:  The only problem with annuities is that they tend to be awful investments.  But that is a different topic.

Try Malaysia.  The problem in Thailand is that government hospitals probably will have a long waiting list and private hospitals might well charge you more than in many Western countries outside the U.S.  So just search on Google and you will find a lot of good offers in Malaysia.

8 hours ago, Pib said:

BOI would probably need to see the balance of your pot of money "after" you made those stock sales to see if that pot is still larger enough cover a 10 years worth of $80K/year sells since an LTR visa is  10 year visa.

Unless the BOI has recently drastically changed its policies, they definitely have no sympathy for just assets.  You can be a billionaire asset wise.  The only thing they focus on is income.  If you do not have the recurrent income, your assets alone will not cut it.

5 hours ago, Pib said:

After you qualify for the 10 year visa there are no annual checks although when you have to reapply at the 5 year point (mid term) to get the 2nd 5 year Permitted to Stay stamp you will basically need to meet the same income requirements that you did when initially qualifying for the LTR visa. 

 

Now it is still unknown at this time if at the mid-term term if BOI/Immigration will require you to prove you met income/insurance requirements for the past 5 years (i.e, your 1st 5 year Permitted to Stay period) or if they will just look at one or two years like when initially qualifying.    I'm guessing it going to be the latter unless they feel a person is trying to game the system.

 

The 80K requirement is "gross" pay (before taxes, deductions, etc).

 

None of the 80K needs to be sent/maintained in Thailand...you can leave it all in another country if desired....or split it between Thailand and another country (ies).    You just need to prove you have the funds somewhere on planet Earth.  

 

If your pension/annuity is only distributed on an annual basis that one each annual payment should be fine.....monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, or annually....the key is it just has to occur each and ever year and be able to prove it.   No skipping a year where you didn't have at least 80K in qualifying income.  You will need to prove the payment is coming from some pension/annuity paying entity (like a statement/benefit letter/etc) versus you or a family member/friend sending you money trying to game the system.     And of course they probably be asking for a copy of your tax return where that pension/annuity might be reported "if" it's a reportable/taxable pension/annuity...tax returns usually provide a secondary form of proof regarding income.

 

Unless something has recently changed the BoI responds/answers questions pretty quick when you send them a Contact inquiry/question....like within a few days or less.  Much, much faster response time than the first six months of the LTR program in late 2022 when they were overwhelmed with applications/questions.    https://ltr.boi.go.th/index.html#contact

 

Good luck.

Maybe worthwhile to add that if your 80k USD or a significant part of this comes from non-recurring things like capital gains, one-time distributions or payments from your own company, then things might get difficult.

7 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is from Mazars report of the event:

 

"However, if the income is eligible for tax exemption under the general rules, such income from abroad will not be subject to tax under DI. Paw. 161. For example, income regarded as a gift from parents, descendants, or spouses in an amount not over Baht 20 million per annum is exempt from personal income tax."

Would you have a link for this, please?

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

On 23 January 2024, the RD was asked and answered as follows, paraphrased:

 

Q: If I'm not resident in Thailand for a year and I earned foreign sourced income in that year, is it taxed when I bring it into Thailand?

A: It is not taxed because you were not resident in Thailand in the year it was earned.

 

Q: What types of foreign source income is assessable income and subject to PIT under Section 41, Para 2 law?

A: ....those prescribed in Section 40 (1 to 8 ) but not including income that is exempt or on which tax does not have to be paid under the Revenue code.

 

Q; a lengthy question about tax paid on income overseas.

A; There is no double taxation in Thailand, tax paid overseas can be credited against tax payable.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

Thank you for posting the Sherrings note which is very useful. In there the following is also quoted from the Q&A from the Thai Revenue department:

"Question: If, yearly, I invest abroad and I bring part of it back into Thailand, is the part I bring back into Thailand determined as investment capital or as assessable income?

Answer: For monies that are brought into Thailand, taxpayers have a duty to self- determine based on facts and evidence that the monies brought into Thailand are capital or assessable income."

Does anybody have any idea what this means in practice?  The answer is really not answering the question as they do not say what methods are supposed to be used for the separation of funds.

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

3) Where tax has been paid on pensions overseas, they will not be subject to re-tax here.

Where does it say this in the Sherrings note, please?  If the respective double taxation agreement does not prohibit Thailand from taxing the overseas pension, then the only thing which can be done is to credit any foreign taxes to any Thai taxes due, but if the Thai taxes are higher, then an additional payment is due.

2 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

It has not been seen (yet?) with Qdenga, and there have been numerous studies on it since the problems with Dengvaxia.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/rmp-summary/qdenga-epar-risk-management-plan_en.pdf
 

The totality of data on virologically confirmed dengue (VCD), hospitalized VCD, and severe forms of dengue, along with the clinical characteristics of these cases, as assessed in Trials DEN-301, DEN313, and DEN-204, did not reveal an identified risk of increased disease severity or disease enhancement attributable to vaccination in the post-vaccination follow-up period. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893923000583

No indication of disease enhancement has been seen in the TIDES study up until 4,5 years after the second vaccine dose. 

The links cited by connda indeed concern Dengvaxia, but a sufficient number of eminent scientists having reviewed the Qdenga data has concluded that there is really insufficient data to decide if Qdenga does not cause the same problem for dengue-naïve people that one should be careful IF one has never had dengue yet.  This is for example discussed in the Nature article I quoted above, this is also the concern of the Germans, this is the concern of Mahidol and I have also seen an article of some renowned Swedish scientists (from Karolinska if I remember correctly) pointing out the same.  Now of course there are also other opinions, but I personally prefer to be on the careful side as a dengue-naïve person.  Moreover, the first time you get dengue the likelihood of it killing you is very very small, so the risk is quite small, and the vaccine is more effective if you already had dengue as well.   

9 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Also -and it's probably a silly question - how is it possible to know that Qdenga is effective at preventing 80% infections?

The manufacturer did a study, but again if you look at the data closely things do not look as great as they might appear:  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03546-2

58 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

You can receive Qdenga whether you have previously had Dengue or not, as it does not interact with prior infections. It's licenced for people aged 4-60 in Thailand. 

There is actually not enough data to decide at this point of time if it is really advisable to get Qdenga if you have not had dengue previously.  For this reason, respected Western health authorities such the German ones do not generally recommend Qdenga for people who have not had dengue yet at this point of time.  Also, the application of Qdenga for the U.S. was withdrawn for lack of sufficient data (which applicants generally do to prevent a rejection).  So this all seems to support a cautious approach which also falls in line with Mahidol University as quoted by the OP ( https://www.thaitravelclinic.com/blog/vaccineinfo/dengue-vaccine-for-foreigners-travelers-in-thailand-should-i-get-it-update-2023.html ).  Mahidol was actually also involved in the original development of Qdenga so what they say should have a lot of weight.  This is not just some random "travel clinic".

P.S.:  I was actually planning to get Qdenga, but in view of all this I decided to better wait.

9 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

What about the other 364 days in the year? Maybe an idea to cut down on all road accidents.

It is just PR.  If you run the numbers, then the daily death rate during these new year days was only marginally above the average death rate over the entire year using last year's data  (42.7 vs. 40.4 deaths per day).  So these horrible year end days do not really exist at all.  This is just the rate people die in Thailand in traffic accidents every day and nobody cares.

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

No person in Indonesia under their Retirement Visa has ever been charged/required to lodge a tax return for any money they brought into the country.  I hear you and understand that 'technically' they have tax laws that could be interpreted the way you say, but I understand that the Indonesia Tax Dept previously stated (over 10 years ago) that Retired Expats who bring money into Thailand do not have to pay income tax.  I have given up trying to find that

Based on our discussion I have today contacted some Indonesian firm providing immigration and tax advice.  They confirmed that if a retired person is in Indonesia more than 183 days, he or she is taxable on global income.  Without any caveats, without any exceptions.  Sorry.  So if you find some more evidence supporting what you say, then please let me know. But - unfortunately - I do not think it is true. 

9 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Indonesia has been making changes recently and they dont tax the 'imported' income of retirees - as it stands they dont require retired expats to lodge a tax return and although they technically could impose taxes on Retired Expats - they do not. 

Indonesia plans sweeping tax reforms for 'expatriate' income, dividends, penalties - Business - The Jakarta Post

Income Tax For Foreign Retirees ? - Living In Indonesia Expat Forum (livinginindonesiaforum.org)

 

One thing to keep in mind when researching all this stuff is that a search for Expats Tax - even Retired Expats Tax - will give most responses targetted at Working Expats (either employed or in a business) because those companies pay Google.  Retired Expats are a completely different kettle of fish - their Visa prohibits working or running a business so they dont earn money in any country and are therefore 'excluded' from having to lodge a tax return.  But most websites offering advice and services refer to 'Expats' when in fact they are only talking about those who work or have a business - who do obviously have to pay income taxes.

Thank you for this, but the Jakarta Post article you quoted is from 2019 and these changes have not been implemented as is also mentioned in your second link.  That some poor pensioners might get away with not declaring taxes might well be true just as countless farang in Thailand have without penalty not declared foreign income submitted in the year it was earned, but I do not think this is the law unfortunately. 

On 1/2/2022 at 4:37 PM, geisha said:

I’ve had these in Pattaya, Jomtien, Hua Hin, and Bangkok

Who did you use in Hua Hin if I may ask?

9 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Indonesia also have reasonable Retired Expat programs

But Indonesia has worldwide taxation and high tax rates unless you know something I don't

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is reflects something I am still unclear about. Does royal decree 743 exempt any foreign income [Pensions AFAIC] earned while residing in the Kingdom under LTRWP, or does the income need to be earned during year -1 when remitted during year 1, just as any foreign income up to 31/12/2023?

Unclear as so much.  The most restrictive version I have heard is that it only exempts income actually earned (earned, not submitted!) in a year you hold an LTR visa, but not income from any other year.  However, for regular pension payments that would appear to be sufficient for you.

5 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Again - if one is worried about that, its best IMHO to call BoI and hear what they plan.

They will not tell you...

"Those who obtain the LTR visa are exempted from paying personal income tax on their foreign assets or earnings.

Since the launch of the scheme in September 2022, over 3,000 LTRs have been granted to foreigners. In the weeks since the Sep 15 announcement of the new tax regulation, there has been a 14 per cent increase in LTR applications, according to sources."

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/international/asean/thailands-tweak-tax-regulation-foreign-income-sparks-confusion-worries

"Those who obtain the LTR visa are exempted from paying personal income tax on their foreign assets or earnings.

Since the launch of the scheme in September 2022, over 3,000 LTRs have been granted to foreigners. In the weeks since the Sep 15 announcement of the new tax regulation, there has been a 14 per cent increase in LTR applications, according to sources."

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/international/asean/thailands-tweak-tax-regulation-foreign-income-sparks-confusion-worries

5 hours ago, tomkenet said:

Does this mean a person can be taxed on remittance even he is not a tax resident that year if the money is earned a previous year when he was a tax resident.

That is indeed what the guidance issued so far implies

4 hours ago, Hans99 said:

Hello, I'm an American retiree on an Elite visa living most of each year in Thailand as of this year (2023) and plan to continue doing so.  I have no financial accounts in Thailand or anywhere outside the US.  The only money I bring into Thailand is by way of (a) ATM withdrawals on a US bank account and (b) usage of a credit card issued by a US bank.  Do (a) and (b) count as "remitted" money?

Currently undefined, but likely

55 minutes ago, lapamita said:

just a silly question , it maybe apply to other worldtraveler

Living in thailand under visa excempt for 4 month a year aprox , on a temporary residence in other country aprox 7 month ( its called temporary with no taxt obligation but asking at application for the first residence , gave them years ago an pro forma adress bcs no have first residence ) 1month or more in diffrent countrys.

 

at my Bank ACs i was gave them all thaiadress since 20 years ,where the last years some problems slowly comming up

 

from legal i have to pay tax anywhere or not ( income only from stocks dividends and intrest as well little rent) no working since xxx

1) You do not have to pay taxes in Thailand based on this scenario if all your income is non-Thai.  How the situation is in other countries depends on the tax laws of these other countries.

2) Giving your Thai address to your foreign banks also does not change that you are not taxable in Thailand.  With this now for the first time actually being reported to Thailand it might however be that Thailand will at some point of time report back to them that you do not really live in Thailand which might cause you some trouble with your banks.

12 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

What about the 5 year followup paperwork?

It is not know yet, but it would appear that at the minimum they will ask again for proof that you held this deposit for at least one year and it might well turn out to be five years, i.e. since the start of your visa.