Brickleberry

What is your objection? In four sentences, I said Hamas were terrorists twice, whilst saying once that they are also considered freedom fighters bby some groups. I also reiterated several times in other posts that they are terrorists. So again, you are refusing to engage in anything substantive, and are resorting to childish bickering.

Doesn't seem worthwhile anyway. I sent you three different links to back up my earlier claims, and you couldn't even understand what you were reading... claiming it didn't back up my point when it quite clearly does. Why would I bother responding anymore to someone who clearly does not understand what is written in black and white? Goodbye.

You quoted me, and took one part of the paragraph out of context. Poor form indeed. Can't debate any substance, so you decide to sling some mud instead. To the world at large (and in my opinion) they are a terrorist organization. To many Palestinians, themselves, Arab nations and governments, they are freedom fighters. How is that controversial? What a lame troll, I will not respond anymore to your drivel.

Outing myself? Here is what I actually said. It is against forum rules to select part of someones quote to make your disgusting accusation. I clearly said everything they did was abhorrent, and can not be allowed to continue:

Restricted to where they LIVE

I already did that, and sent you the link

Yes, it does! Do you not know what the law refers to?

Yes, it is: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-law-declares-only-jews-have-right-self-n892636 Israel adopts divisive law that declares only Jews have the right of self-determination

They have some of the same rights. They can vote, but they can't choose where to live. Housing committees control who can live in their community and if they are not Jewish they are not allowed to live there. https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-07-27/ty-article-opinion/.premium/in-netanyahus-israel-if-youre-not-jewish-youre-not-accepted/00000189-938f-d1ae-a38b-f7af58640000 Discrimination and apartheid https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56898864

Isn't the result due tomorrow?

You are ignoring what is happening on the ground. Palestinians in the West Bank have been forcibly removed for decades now. Slowly but surely, they are being ousted. The 20% of Arab Israelis you reference face discrimination, poverty and are confined to certain districts in Israel to ensure they cannot become the majority and win more seats in the Knesset. They are second class citizens and according to the law passed in 2018, they cannot call Israel their home. It is home to the Jewish people only. So which is it? A two state solution, or just Israel?

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/ During a speech before the United Nations General Assembly on September 22, 2023, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu holds up a map that shows Israel stretching “from the river to the sea.”

Well perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on posts between other members without reading them. Jingthing said exactly those things, and you were defending this person's view in your post. It would only be logical to assume that you agree with the views that this person addressed.

Again, you can't have your cake and eat it! You don't want a one state solution - this would lead to the destruction of Israel as we know it. You don't endorse a two state solution because you support the river to the sea analogy as said by the Israeli far right government. So this must mean the ethnic cleansing or genocide of the Palestinian people, right? Where else would they go?

The state of Israel is led by those right wing elements that you describe. So until they are elected out of office, one must conclude that it is. Note that instead of discussing the issues I raised, we are still talking about what I said. Classic obfuscation - distract and avoid. Engage in the debate, not name calling tactics please.

erm... can you read? Using adjectives to describe the Israeli government as disgusting and their methods should not be allowed to continue is not the same as saying the Israeli government should not exist.I also explicitly point out that it is not all of the Israeli government. I mention multiple times that it is the right wing. The right wing elements form Bibi's government, and they need to go. Let the moderates and left wing solve the problems.

Yes. When Palestinian protesters say it, they are advocating for the destruction of Israel as a state & Jewish people. When Israels right wing government say it, they are advocating for the destruction of a Palestinian state & Palestinian people.

No I didn't say anything even close to resembling that. Notice that Jingthing did not respond to any of the valid comments quoted from Israeli prime ministers, Mossad intelligence chiefs and Attorney generals. When they do not have an argument, they obfuscate, lie and offend.

LOL. So instead of debating me on the merits of the argument, you decide to ignore what I wrote entirely and say things that I did not say. If you can show just one single post where I say Israel's government can not exist, then you might have a point. Pointing out that Israels right wing government is a part of the problem, and their recent denials of a Palestinian state from the river to the sea is a fact. Most political commentators now agree that Bibi's government can not be a part of the peace process without a change of stance on this very important issue, because they do not want a two state solution. So which is it? Do you want a two state solution, or do you want a one state solution? You can't have your righteously indignant cake and eat it too... your living in lala land! You do not want a one state solution, because you feel that would spell the end of Israel. You do not advocate for a two state solution, because you support Israels right wing government. So I can only conclude that you advocate for the destruction of every single Palestinian in Gaza and the west bank.

'they' in my sentence was referring to the Palestinian people, not Hamas. Hamas are a terrorist organization, but they are also freedom fighters (Hamas literally translates as resistance fighters). Two things can be true at the same time. They can be an abhorrent terrorist organization, but they can also be an oppressed people fighting for the right to self determination. Their methods, charter etc are disgusting, and they can not be allowed to continue. The same can be said of the Israeli government. It is a radical right wing government with its own agenda - to push as many Palestinians out of the West bank and grab as much land as they can. To prop up Hamas and deny the Palestinians any chance of an independent state - from the river to the sea (Bibi's own words). Israel may be a democracy, but it is also a racist, apartheid state. Don't agree with me? Then why not listen to senior Jewish Israelis who say the same thing: https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-meaning-history-debate https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/05/amnesty-israel-apartheid-israeli-politicians-agree

Interesting to note the drop in support for Israel. Months ago, there were so many keyboard warriors defending the indefensible - the slaughter of thousands of innocent women & children. Now we have just two or three usual suspects who attempt to obfuscate and draw the discussion away from the facts on the ground. I wonder whether they will remain staunch supporters if the ICJ rules Israel is committing genocide, or will they try to claim that the ICJ is antisemitic?

I am not whitewashing Hamas, but I will also not allow you to spread false propaganda and lies without being called out on it. Read the article before you post next time, then you might not be so annoyed when when your caught out lying. Furthermore, unless you want me to report your post, I suggest you delete the part where you insulted me.

I actually read the whole article, and the women that spoke at hearing were not raped. One of the women said she 'thought a girl was raped when she came back from the bathroom' by the look on the girls face - she did not hear it or see it. In another instance she says; " I saw it with my own eyes" but doesn't go into any detail, doesn't name any hostages that were raped, and doesn't say how it happened. Again, I am not saying that there were 0 rapes, but there is no evidence in the link you supplied.

@JCauto Whilst I really like your post, there are some things to mention when talking about Israeli democracy 1) They are not quite equal. Israel distinguishes between citizenship and nationality, and this affects your quality of life. The passage of an Israeli law in 2018 establishing Israel as the “nation state of the Jewish people,” which was seen as effectively deeming non-Jewish residents second-class citizens. 2) Over 50 percent of Arab citizens in Israel (not the occupied territories) live under the poverty line. They also have a considerably lower life expectancy, a higher infant mortality rate, less access to education and resources as well as less municipality and government funding. 3) Most land inside the green line is off limits to Palestinian citizens of Israel. A large percentage of land in Israel is under the control of the Jewish National Fund, which has a specific mandate to develop land for and lease land only to Jews. 4) Housing committees decide who can live in each community, with Arab citizens often refused permission to build/lease a house because their religion or race does not fit with the 'character of the community'. Whilst they do have a democratic government, it is not a fair one if you are not Jewish.

I LOVE this post. Thank you