TroubleandGrumpy

She knew, so she ran, so they chased her - I dont believe a word she says.

IMO for every 6 or so that he accepted their offers, he also pushed another 1-2 to do it or else they are out. It was a common thing done and it was often exploitation by both. But his demise was inevitable in the long run, because the modern rule for men is simple - if you accept 'favours' from women for your favours, there will be some that will come back and bite you later. The reality is that women are crazy (lies become the truth), and men are stupid (anything for puss....).

I think some Russian and Ukrainian 'trouble' has arrived in amongst the majority of the tourist families. Tourist families are the majority, but there are many buying properties and starting businesses, and that is not what tourists do. A large number of Ukrainians in the East had a Russian Passport before the 'invasion', and a lot more have been issued to them since the 'liberation'.

BS - choke the driver, pull his head back, grab his nuts and squeeze, hit the kill switch, etc etc. Sympathy Yes - but no regret. Decisions and actions have consequences.

Exactly! If the Police stop pursuing, then none of the criminals will stop. They will all run knowing that the police will stop chasing them - and that puts much more people at risk of being killed/injured by them speeding away. NO. Publicise this outcome and tell criminals that if you run the police can and will try to stop you by any means possible - so pull over !! I recall that vbideo on youtube of a policeman trying to catch a guy with a girl on the back of a bike who were speeding though the streets - it went for about almost 6-8 minutes. IMO the policeman should have knocked them over - all it took was one innocent person to be out walking in the wrong place and wrong time, and boom - dead or severely injured. People that have no concern over the impact their actions could have on others, lose the right for the police to be concerned about them IMO.

Godspeed indeed - this whole income taxes on remittances scenario reminds me of the TM30 rules and their sudden over the top pedantic implementation by Immigration Police some years ago. They started enforcing the 24 hour reporting period for TM30s and fining Expats when hotels did not report them staying and leaving, and some Expats had annual extensions denied/delayed. I recall it all blew up so much that it was front page Bangkok Post and on social media (not so big back then). There was a meeting at Journalists Club? that was broadcast online after 100s of signatures on a protest, and I recall the Head of BKK Immi Police 2 and a few of his other lackeys were there (and not enjoying it). He was asked at one stage 'why should an Expat pay 2000 Baht fine if he shows Passport etc but the hotel fails to report him'. His arrogant smug answer was 'because that the law'. That pretty much summed them up - ignorant arrogant little-hitlers. Anyway, it was a short period later when the whole thing was dropped and strict enforcement was 'abandoned' (but never publicly stated and the law is still on the books). IMO the taxing of Expat's foreign sourced money is the in the same ball park, and it will be the same type of clusterphar... that is best avoided - which will inevitably just quietly get sidelined and 'go away' - which is what any silly Expat who contacts/visits a TRD office asking help to lodge a tax return about his Pension will be told to do.

Cannot disagree with that - it is clearly a WIP issue as is IMO many things within the guide. But until TRD provide a clarification on this specific matter (and many others), then IMO everyone should take the aproach that minimises their tax obligations. As shown by the recent post where severeal TRD sources were asked questions and gave different answers, TRD do not have any certainty arounbd the details and complications of taxing incoming remittances. Eg. If you were to ask Somchai in your local TRD 'is this taxable?' then IMO he is likely to say Yes - even though under the strict interpretation of the rules it might not be taxable. Taxation advice is good when it is advising how to avoid, minimise or reduce taxation through legal means. The standard rule of law regarding taxation rules and regulations in western countries, is that many scenarios over many deacdes are examined and ruled upon and published, and that process is ongoing, extremely rigorous and controlled. This is not the case in Thailand - this is a country where it is always best to 'go with the flow' rather than try to self-determine and rigidly adhere to the rules and regulations that TRD themselves are inconsitent and uncertain. IMO any decision on whether an action should be undertaken to avoid taxation, should be done so on the basis that if it has not been specifically excluded by a TRD directive or clarification, then it is tax avoidance (legal) and it is not tax evasion (illegal).

Thios was the same person who said in 2016 that Trump would start WW3? Trump slowed or stopped most wars - and he had Noth Korea and Russia and China under control. Biden is the one who has taken the world to the edge of WW3. Only fools believe the Democrats anymore - but the education system keeps pumping them out - more and more every year.

That is the one reason why Expats would have to definitely file a tax return. Hopefully, that change will not take place for 2-3 years, and judging how slowly things change in Thailand I would say that is a likely timeframe. One thing I do know, Immigration will provide all the details and instructions to all their Officers on such a change - whether they will listen or imnplement them correctly is another matter altogether.

For any Expat thinking that this means all Expats must all lodge a tax return if you bring more than 120K into Thailand, I wish to point out that this is a statement is on a website by a private company who make money doing tax returns - and it does not quote where in the Revenue Code or Tax Lawa it draws its information from. It is not fact and it is not conclusive - it is IMO marketing. There is an opinion by some AN members that the Thai tax system works like it does in the West - it does not. One of those many differeneces is that the rules are whatever the TRD decides and/or interprets on any given day. The rules are NOT what is written down in the 'code' - like it is in the West where every rule and interpretation is strictly enfocrced and published and detailed. In Thailand it is whatever the TRD decides it means and whatever they (and the Govt) decides to do. That 20+ million Thais do not lodge tax returns is just one of many many examples. Here is another - in the 'rules' it states that every foreigner leaving Thailand must obtain a tax clearance certificate (we obviosuly do not). Tax Clearance Certificate | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) How tax things work in Thailand is how the TRD and Govt decide they are to work. Things here are not like in the West where laws and rules are detailed, clear and published, and where the Western Govt organisations must adhere to those rules. As detailed in that meeting with TRD, they have no idea about DTAs and other issues regarding overseas earnings and money. Thai government to tax all income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Page 257 - Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments - Thailand News, Travel & Forum - ASEAN NOW IMO the best approach for retired/married Expats is to stay away from TRD until this is all sorted out and implemented for a while - 2 to 3 years? This view I see of Expats thinking they should get a TIN and lodge a tax return because of some adherence to the Revenue Code, when the TRD itself ignores its own code whenever it suits, is IMO absolute lunacy. You might as well walk into the local police office and confess to speeding on your bike without a helmet, while pleading not to be fined. Having said that, it is true that tax agencies have very powerful and arbitrary powers, especially Thailand, so if you are not earning income (other than Pension and maybe small istuff nterest etc) then keep all your records. If you are ever asked why you no lodge a tax return you can use that (and a tax lawyer) to justify why you did not lodge a tax return. I have always found that the bigger the bureacracy, the more the following rule is to be applied. Rule: It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.

That is m,y opinion too - why bring youirself to their attention is my view - the downsides are extreme and SFA upside as far as I can see.

As stated many times, until TRD provide all the needed clarifications and directives regarding this new rule interetation and how it applies to Expats, everything is opinion and speculation. To example this the following is provided from HLB Thailand Thailand's Revenue Department has issued an instruction that changes its interpretation of the taxation of foreign income remitted into Thailand by personal taxpayers, effective from 1 January 2024. The instruction, dated 15 September 2023, states that a tax resident of Thailand who derives assessable income from an employment or business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax on such income. New rule for taxation of foreign income from 1 Jan 2024 | HLB Thailand If you read that document in detail and go through their other statements online, it is their opinion that this new directive applies to foreign income remitted into Thailand from employment, or a business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad. My interetation of their statements is that it is only applicable to those catagories, and covers remitted money from: people working in job and being paid overseas while living in Thailand, people living in Thailand who have a business overseas that they are running, and people earnign income from property rentals/investments. Perhaps they are wrong and it will apply to everything and everyone - I do not think so but I do know that no one can say for sure because TRD is keeping quiet - and that is why at this time everything is uncertain and not definitive.

Just in case someone has read this post in the absence of reading the whole document and all the background, this is not a directive or advice from the TRD - it is what has been published on the PWC website and it is their opinion (marketing). To example how an opinion is not necessarily based on advice/directive from TRD, and should not be taken as such - this below is also published on the PWC website: Thailand taxes its residents and non-residents on their assessable income derived from employment or business carried on in Thailand, regardless of whether paid in or outside Thailand. Residents who derive income from abroad are taxable on that income if remitted into Thailand in the year in which it is received. Thailand - Individual - Taxes on personal income (pwc.com) I am not saying the advice published by PWC is totally incorrect - but I am saying that it is not 100% fact. Until TRD provides the needed directives and advice, no one knows exactly how this new rule interpretation will be implemented in TRD. More in a minute.

A lot of people are also unaware that within the broad parameters of the Revenue Guide and precedent, the decision maker is the Officer in the local Provincial TRD Office. TRD Officers are just like the Immigration Officers at annual renewal time - they have a large amount of arbitrary authority and can be 'troublesome'. Likewise, just like Immigration, some TRD Offices will interpret things/rules differently to others. Certainly a decision can be appealed against (TRD Trinbunal and Courts) but it must be 100% in Thai - all written and verbal communications must be in Thai. Hopefully, some Thai person or company lodges an appeal against this new 'interetation' and/or the implementation of it with 3 months notice. I am concerned why that has not already happened - anyone think they knwo why? When Malaysia introduced the same new 'rule' in 2021 they delayed its implementaion for personal income taxes until 2026 to allow people a chance to adjust their personal financial affairs. IMO they are much smarter over there - this delay gives people a few years to sell up cash redeem etc, and then bring that money back to Malaysia. Thailand gave no such notice. There was an increase in incoming remittances over Oct-Dec quater last year, but most wealthy Thai people will be working to keep the money overseas (of course) and only bring it back when whatever changes needed have been made (eg. as gifts to wife?). All types of foreign source income (“FSI”) received by resident individuals in Malaysia are exempt from Malaysian income tax from 1 January 2022 to 31 December 2026 [except for individuals who carry on business through a partnership in Malaysia] provided the income has been subjected to tax in the country of origin. Effective 1 January 2027, all the FSI would be taxable in Malaysia upon remittance by tax resident individuals. https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/xx/pdf/2023/01/TIES-Malaysia.pdf Placeholder for Title 2nd line (kpmg.com)

And they wonder why Thailand has such a bad reputation for attracting nutters and dregs as tourists (and some Expats). This women if she was in Japan or Singapore or Korea would have been arrested, jailed and deported last time.

Wow - this is definitely going to be BIG and it is no Joke. Massive flow on issues will come out of this. If Big Joke is clean then those in power are dirty and they are desperate to stop him becomming the big boss bacause he will get rid of them all - and the PM will fall for having sided with Torsak Sukvimol against Surachate Hakparn. This aint going to go away.

QUOTE- The following persons need to apply for TIN: 1. A person liable to personal income tax who : (1) Does not have a PIN under the civilian registration law; i.e. a foreigner, non-juristic ordinary partnership, non-juristic body of persons, or undivided estate. etc. IMO a person is liable to personal income tax when they meet all the criteria and have assesable income (income that is taxable) - meaning that they have to pay income tax. Assessable income means income that is taxable under this Chapter. That being Chapter 3 - Income Tax. Chapter 3 Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) I interpret that to mean that if I am not liable to pay personal income tax if I do not have income that is taxable due to DTA or any other excemption, allowance or exclusion in the Revenue Code. Therefore I do not have to get a TIN - and I suspect many Expats would be in the same boat.

Some people have quoted the following sentence in the Revenue Code assuming it applies to Pensions (Govt social welfare payments), but IMO it does not refer to pension as we understand it in the west, but to a form of salary payment. If anyone can find exactly the Section that refers to Government Pensions being taxable income that would be appreciated. Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer. (1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment. The word pension in the contact above does not refer to social welfare payments that we Expats call 'pensions'. It refers to people being employed and receiving their salary in the form of a pension (regular scheduled payment) or any other form of money as listed above. Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

Worthwhile providing the following information from the TRD Revenue Code - whioch I again advise is NOT for taxpayers, but is the TRD 'bible' that they use when they are assessing a person/company for tax obligations. There is a few of these categories below that apply to myself - hopefully they and maybe a few others will apply to Expats generally. Section 42 states "The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation:" (1) Per diem or transport expenses that an employee or a person performing work spends honestly, necessarily, exclusively and wholly in carrying out his duties. (2) Transport expenses and traveling per diem at the rates prescribed by the Government in the Royal Decree governing the rates of transport expenses and traveling per diem. (3) The part of traveling expenses paid by the employer to the employee which the employee spent wholly and necessarily in traveling from a different place to take up employment for the first time or for returning to his place of origin after the termination of the employment. However, this exemption shall not cover traveling expenses received by an employee who returns to his place of origin and then takes up employment with the same employer within three hundred fifty five days from the last working day of the previous employment. (4) Where a contract of employment which was bona fide entered into before the entry into force of the Royal Act on Income Tax B.E. 2475 requires that the employer shall pay to the employee upon the termination of employment a single payment of gratuity, fee, commission or bonus, such payment shall be excluded for the purpose of income tax calculation, notwithstanding the whole amount that is paid after the entry into force of the provisions of this Part. (5) Special post allowance, house rent allowance and rent free residence granted to an official of a Thai embassy or consulate abroad. (6) Income from a sale or discount received from purchase stamp duties or government postage stamps. (7) Board or committee meeting allowance and teaching and examination fees paid by the government or public educational institutions. (8) The following interest: (a) Interest from Government savings lotteries, or interest on demand deposit with the Government Savings Bank; (b) Interest on savings deposit with a cooperative; (c) Interest on savings deposit with a bank in Thailand which is repayable on demand; only in the case where the total amount of interest received by any taxpayer does not exceed one thousand baht throughout tax year, in accordance with the rules, procedures and conditions as prescribed by the Director- General.8910 8R.D.No.301 B.E. 2539 9N.DG.IT.No.55 10N.DG.IT.No.64 (9) Sale of a movable property acquired from inheritance or acquired not in a commercial or profitable manner, but not including ship or vessel with freight of six tons or over, steam boat or motor boat with freight of five tons and over, or floating house. (10) Income derived from an inheritance.11 11R.C.A.A. (No. 40) B.E. 2558 (11) Award for the purpose of education or technical research, government lottery and government savings prize, prize given by government authority in contest or competition to a person other than a professional contestant or competitor, or reward paid by government authority for the purpose of prevention of wrongdoing. (12) Special pension, special gratuity, inherited pension or inherited gratuity. (13) Compensation against wrongful acts, amount derived from insurance or from funeral assistance scheme. (14) (Repealed by R.C.A.A. (No.39) B.E. 2557) (15) Income of a farmer from sale of rice cultivated by the farmer and/or his family. (16) Income derived from an undivided estate liable to tax under Section 57 Bis. (17) Income prescribed for exemption by Ministerial Regulations.12 12M.R.No.126 No.201 B.E. 2539 (18) Red Cross lottery prize, income from a sale or discount received from purchase of Red Cross lotteries. (19) Interest received under Section 4 Decem.13 13M.R.No.161 B.E. 2526 (20) (Repealed by R.C.A.A. (No.26) B.E. 2525 S.5) (21) (Repealed by R.C.A.A. (No.29) B.E. 2534 S.6) (22) (Repealed by E.A.R.C. (No.14) B.E. 2529 S.8) (23) Income from sale of investment units in a mutual fund. (24) Income of a mutual fund. (25) Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security. (26) Income derived from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property without any consideration to a legitimate child, not including an adopted child, but only for the portion not exceeding twenty million baht per a legitimate child throughout the tax year. (R.C.A.A. (No. 43) B.E. 2559 which has come into force as from 1 February B.E. 2559) (27) Income derived from maintenance and support or gifts from ascendants, descendants or spouse, but only for the portion not exceeding twenty million Baht throughout the tax year. (28) Income derived from maintenances and support under moral purposes or gifts received in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with custom and tradition from persons who are not ascendants, descendants or spouse, but only for the portion not exceeding ten million baht throughout the tax year. (29) Income derived from gifts whereby a donor has expressed his or her intention or appeared to have an intention of using the gifts for religious, educational or public benefit activities in accordance with the rules and conditions as prescribed by a Ministerial Regulation.

Section 83/2 and 89/3 refer to VAT Tax and obligations thereunder - nothing to do with income taxes as far as I can see.

Well said - there is far too much ambiguity and uncertainty to state with any degree of certainty that all retired/married Expats must get a TIN and lodge a tax return. Certainly employed Expats, and those running a business, or those earning money overseas (salary, rental, etc.), do have to lodge a tax return. The ambiguity and uncertainty over how TRD will apply the rule change to retired/married Expats who are bringing in either Pensions, Savings or other funds, is still very uncertain.

That is OK if you do not wish to discuss your statement - but I disagree that Expats should get a TIN and lodge a tax return. Not because of the rules - but because of practice and precendent. 30-40 million Thais do not lodge tax returns even though they obviously earn over 60K/120K a year. A 2000 baht fine is not a problem - worth the decision. I dont want to debate or argue the matter either - but I do want your post responded to so that others can see some people disagree with that assertion and why. IMO the best thing to do for any Expat is to avoid the TRD for at least 2-3 years - there is no way Somchai in the local TRD Office (the returns are assesed in each Province) will know anything about DTAs from 60+ countries, and just like Immigration Officers Somchai in TRD has a lot of arbitrary powers and authority. IMO Expats are best advised to stay away from him/them. I will just add to this statement the fact that at the recent meeting with TRD, they had no idea regarding DTAs as they had never utilised them before. TRD has not provided training and the tools to their Officers to be able to deal with Expats and DTAs and all the other complications. Their previous rule/model meant they did not need to know any of that because it was just accepted that money transferred was earned in a previous year. TRD are not prepared - they are totally unprepared and are ignorant about DTAs. Stay away from them IMO.

Perhaps - but if I wanted to avoid scrutiny andf paying income taxes on illegal/laundered money, all I have to do is buy an LTR and I am exempt from income taxes. That is against the global obligations to reduce/illiminate illegal/laundered money exchanges between countries.

Good Luck with that.

Like Thailand was 30 years ago??