TroubleandGrumpy

Good Luck.

Thanks for that post - lost of good information. As with all tax depts worldwide they will not tell you how to 'reduce' your taxes, but they will nail you if you avoid them. That tactic could work in a rational rule-based country, but it will not work here. And this is something that everyone needs to hear about - Thailand is NOT a rules-based society. Saying 'but that is the rule' means nothing to any Thai who has been told the rule is applied 'this way'. So if that tactic is found out about, the Thai Officer will (and can) decide that the Expat was deliberately avoiding taxes and hit them with a bill and fine. Good Luck getting his/her Superviser to reverse that decision. Good Luck appealing against that decision. In fact Good Luck challenging anything any Thai RD Officer decides is the rule. Not only will an Expat not win, it will cost them money to find out that they cant win. That is the legal reality of Thailand for Expats - you have very little if any legal rights. Now if an Expat has the ability to get a wife/friend to sit down with that Thai person and talk it out and through and do what is needed 'the Thai way' then that Expat might have success. But if an Expat quotes the rules at an official Thai person and think that the rule matters - they are very wrong.

Be careful mate. That will bring you to their attention. When I asked my wife why other Thai wives/GFs were not complkainig, she said because that will mean that they get 'noticed' and it is always better to not get noticed by any Thai Govt person or office.

That is one of the potential problems in this new rule - but we all hope that is not the case. The vast majority of Thais do not lodge an income tax return - same with most Expats. Clarifications are coming - but untiul then it is a worry - despite what some Expats are saying here. Thai Government to Begin Taxing Foreign-Sourced Income as of 2024 - The Australian-Thai Chamber of Commerce (AustCham) (austchamthailand.com) We all have to wait and see - we all have diffrent financial arrangements - hopefully before next year.

Yes and No. The only reason a tax dept anywhere will request that information, is because they have started an investigation. Whenever they 'check' someone out it commences with a file/reference - it may continue and it may not - most do not. How that request is made is already in place - electronic request using approved forms and authority etc. Somchai in Thai RD cannot just call XYZ bank and get your tranfers. Some people need to read this - about USA but applicable everywhere in the world. All international transfers are recorded - under International Laws. Sending international wire transfers over $10,000: full guide - Wise

Not worth the paper it was written on. Right - thanks for that mate. I will base my financial situation plans on what you were told by some Thai person - SURE. Get it in writing and I will believe you.

Wait - Hopefully the Thai RD will clarify any exemptions and details soon. At the moment the new interpretation does include ALL foreign remittances into Thailand. That does not mean that they will be taxing you/I - it means that money could be taxable income. Good article in a newspaper online Postreded in Bangkok today covers the current situation very well. I recommend you read it and then wait to see how things develop.

Mike - in one post you say you do your tax returns in Thailand. Does that mean you are a Resident or a Citizen? I only ask because a Resident is not the same as a tax resident. That is a fact and I cannot understand how you cannot accept that. A tax resident in Thailand does not need to be a Resident or a Citizen of Thailand. Maybe you should ask a lawyer. PS - I am many others are very keen to see that 'advice' you received from Thai RD.

Can you provide that please - show their letter/advice - blank out your personal details of course.

Firstly - the USA has a different arrangement with all other countries than anyone else, and enforces those rules strongly, and everyone complies. US citizens are liable to pay income tax to USA wherever they reside in the world. Secondly - has the Thai RD stated that the current situation will not change in any way after Ja1 2024 and the 2025 taxation returns. Thirdly - I have said many times in past posts that DTAs are different for everyone else than the USA who does not 'allow' its citizens to be taxed overseas, except under specific situations (individually approved).

Under the current tax enforcement rules, Thai tax residents (Thais and Foreigners) are only taxed on money sent to Thailand, that was income in the same year it was remitted into Thailand. This was a rule exploited by wealthy Thais and Companies to avoid income taxes. It was also under that past 'common practice' that the Thai RD operated, such that as far as they were concerned all Expats retired or married (not those working) were 'accepted' by the Thai RD as not having any income tax payable in Thailand. This change means that is no longer 'technically' the case. Thailand claims to be following common international practice, but in all countries where this is applied, there are clear guidelines and exceptions which apply for a mutlitude of situations. This has not occurred in Thailand and there has not been any explanations, clarifications or exemptions provided for anyoine and any situation. Ergo (technically) this means that all foreign remittances into Thailand are potentially taxable income. This new directive (technically) applies to all Expats, unless and until the Thai RD specifically excludes our foreign remittances into Thailand. If there is no exemption or clarification given for retired/married Expats, then at the worst we will be getting taxed on any non-excluded remittances, and at the best we will be required to lodge a tax return and 'claim' back taxes paid under applicablke DTAs, but without being given details or explanations as to how to do that and how proof can be provided and what is acceptable for each of the 61 DTAs in place (and on a personal note - I am reminded of a movie - Good Luck). While day to day life of retired/married Expats will probably not be affected, it will certainly affect any Expat considering remitting any large amounts of money into Thailand, such as to purchase a new car or even a property. The Thai RD has not clarified how any Expat would be able to prove that income tax is not liable to be paid in Thailand on those large remittances into Thailand. And then it becomes a matter of fairness and rights. If the long term Expats are required to pay income taxes, what exactly will they get in return. Will they no longer be treated as second class, will they continue to have to report every 90s days, TM30s, annual renewals, leaving and re-entering. Will they get any of the Govt services provided to their fellow Thai tax residents, such as the 'We Travel Schemes', the Hospital Services and Benefits, will they get the next 10K Baht handout, and will they get any of the other things provided for Thai tax residents by the Thai Government, Provincial Governments and all the local Amphurs. That above sums up my position - take it or leave it - up to you. Personally I will be waiting and watching - and also looking where to 'jump' if it does come to the Thai Govt trying to impose income taxes on my remittances into Thailand. The right thing to do is to exclude or exempt retired/married long-term Expats, unless that money is specific income (working), but if they do not take that course of action, then that says everythiong we need to know. If you think they are not aware of all these problems and issues - you are very much m,istaken - it has been stated on most Thai media organisations. I expect that over the next 3-6 months soemthing will be provided to clarify the application of this new rule - when their 'losing of face' will not be so bad ????

Good Luck.

Last time responding to a reality misunderstanding resulting from a failure to read all the posts. This has been discussed and clarified many times - but just for you. 1.Taxable Person Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand. Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

What is ammazing is that it took over 70 pages before the Trolls starting attacking others for their opinions, and the Wokes started attacking for 'incorect statements'. ????

You are being an abusibe troll - I am not arguing that at all. I am sayinbg that the Thai banks DO record all foreign remittances into Thailand and that the Thai RD CAN request those details for any tax resident (Thai or Foreigner). "Bank secrecy laws" - no such thing when any tac dept is checking up on someone - especially in Thailand. "Global blockbuster" - mate you have a surreal opinion of your/our importance.

You can go ahead and continue to believe whatever you want. But I can ssure everyone that all Thai Banks keep a record of all foreign remittances into Thailand, and that especially includes all foreigner's bank accounts which is whgat this is all about - remittances into foreigner's accounts. I can also assure everyone, that if the Thai RD requests (for any valid reason) that the banks provide the details of all foreign depositis into anyone's bank account's (Thai or Foreigners), that the Thai banks can and will comply.

The main thing to remember about this issue is that it could be a huge worry. But there will not be any actual negative oputcomes until 2025 - after the 2024 tax year. Hopefully, during this year or 2024 the Thai RD will release statement/s saying what they view about the money being brought into Thailand by Expats who are Retired or Married - as per our Visa requiements. Should they say any Expat bringing into Thaioland more than 150K Baht must lodge a tax return and claim the 'tax credits' (as per the DTA) for taxes already paid, then that is very bad. Should they say any Expat that is bringing into Thaioland more than 150K Baht does not have to lodge a tax return, unless that or part of that money is from income earned overseas, then that is very good. I think it will be something in between those two extremes - we all have to wait for the details. What we are doing now is discussing all the intracies and details of whther this is a problem or not, and in what situations is it a problem or not - if that worries you, then best to stay away. If/when Thai RD issues a statement - then there will be a headline - their last statement was totaly rubbish. There is a lawyer whoi has a Yourtube channel, a few do actually, and he has a 'legal' pratice that is know to have 'integity' and he has made a few viseos about this - he says we have to wait - he has been here a long time (is a USA citizen Lawyer who became a Thai citizen). He thinks they dont 'mean' to nail Expats on retirement or married, but until it is clarified how they will do this change, no one really knows.

As things have become known, my position has been changed - as has many members who are active on this iisue and who are staying across other people's posts as things develop. I never argued automatic survelliance - I did say that the banks record all foreign deposits into Thailand and those records can be accessed by the Thai RD - because that is true. I said perhaps they wont view 100% of the money I bring in as taxable income - maybe only 50% - but I said either way that is still unacceptable. About half I bring in is from my Pension - as explained a while ago - which you obviously did not read. Next time you stay away for a week - read through the posts before making such negative comments taking them out of context - otherwise you run the risk of looking like an annoying and ignorant person. Dont care about this matter ? That is OK. Leave the rest of us alone who do thank you.

Totally Wrong. Obviously you have not read the posts. 180 days or more, in total, living in Thailand Jan 1 to Dec 31 means you are a tax resident of Thailand - no matter where you are from or what type of Visa you have (or dont have). FACT.

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I agree with that - and that point is the key and if correct that creates a potential for avaioding the Thai RD. However, if the Thai RD, now or in the future, decides that all that money you remitted into Thailand each year might have been taxable and that you should have done a tax return every year - then we are all copulated.

Bugger. That means unless the Thai RD has clearly stated I will not be liable to pay income taxes by the end of 2024, then we are out of here before March 2025 - when a tax return is due. Clearly, just staying low and keeping quiet for a few years aint the right strategy.

The Tax payable on 1 Million Baht is about 120,000 Baht. If I stay in Thailand for 10 years (mid 70s) and pay that income tax every year, that totals 1.2 Million Baht. Over 15 years (I will then be close to 80) that is 1.8 Million Baht. Not a chance in Hell I am paying that for the 'privelege3' of being treated like I am in Thailand, for absolutely nothing in return. Sure - they probably will not tax me on all the money I bring into Thailand (but maybne half?),. But the problems of dealing with the Thai RD and all the problems they will cause me, is not worth it. Especially when I consider the probability that they will be way worse than any IO, and they can jail me and fine me huge amounts of money, and then deport me. Here is what I am talking about - Quote from Google - lots of others:- "A fine of THB 2,000 applies for failure to file a tax return by the deadline. Late payment penalties (below) also apply. Intentionally failing to file in an attempt to evade tax will result in a fine of up to THB 5,000, and imprisonment of up to 6 months." "Failing to comply with tax laws in Thailand can result in fines ranging from 1,000 baht to 200,000 baht, depending on the severity of the violation. In addition to the fixed fines, a monthly interest rate of 1.5 percent is applied to the outstanding tax amount." "In Thailand, another common penalty for not sticking to tax laws is imprisonment. Even a minor offense such as forgetting to deduct withholding tax on a single invoice can result in one month of jail time." If Thailand RD clearly conveys what is and what is not personal taxable income for Expats living in Thailand on Retirement and Marriage Visas - then and only then can I feel safe in regards to taxation obligations while I am living as an Expat in Thailand. While those statements above are mainly applicable for Expats owning a business in Thailand or working in Thailand, now that they have expanded their 'net' for personal income taxes, I am not letting this go easily with a 'she''l be right mate' approach. The downsides of being caught up in this could be huge. Sure it could also be a storm in a tea cup. But until I know that for sure, I am going to remember those very wise words - "There are only two things that you cannot avoid - Death and Taxes".

Best to stay that way and see what happens ????

Good point. Ok then - how about this (if stopped) "I am leaving to attend a family funeral, and that is why my Wife is not with me - I will be back within a week as per the return flight I have." and/or "What letter from the Revenue Department?".