Mike Lister

2014......! The UN and world bank are the two major authors, typically, I've not seen anything meaningful from Thai universities on this issue.

Yes, sure, Myanmar is over 2 mill. Pages 12, 18 and 19 tell the story. Other interesting trivia includes: Foreign work permit holders by country, Japan, China, PI and India are the top 4.

If you look solely at the financial benefits derived from westerners in Thailand and compare that to the bigger income picture derived from exports, USD 10 bill vs USD350 bill., it becomes easier to understand why appeasing foreigners in Thailand isn't high on the governments list of priorities. You want what, you want no dual pricing, access to state health care, no 90 day reports and you want to be able to buy booze when you want it......really, you want those things do you? 555!

Again, I don't agree. We shop 90% of the time at local markets, the quality is always at least good, if it wasn't locals wouldn't shop there. The biggest socioeconomic group in Thailand is the middle class/economically secure, it's that huge group that sits between most peoples idea of what comprises the majority of the population and the 1% you mention. That group was tiny in 1997, today it's substantial. "In 2019, the poor, the economically secure and the middle class made up 6.2, 56.3, and 37.5 percent" of the population respectively. Note, the 1% don't even feature in that statement! The earnings/expenditure overlap between foreigners and locals takes place in that middle class group. We spend 50k a month and live very comfortably, we easily fall into the definition of middle class Thai earners, as do other foreigner's who live around us. https://www.statista.com/statistics/716001/share-of-household-income-levels-in-thailand-forecast/ https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/780771636649923876/pdf/Thailand-Poverty-Brief.pdf

Airport Mall is a very short walk from the airport, a good range of shopping and eateries. You would have enough time to visit Doi Suthep, that's the temple near the top of the mountain that overlooks the airport. It's a pleasant ride up there and the temple is very nice, even if you aren't really into temples, the views are excellent, on a clear day. Some hill tribe shopping and eateries up there also, an excellent photo opportunity. Plan B? The center of Chiang Mai is fluid, there isn't really a good focal point, apart perhaps from Thapae (tapay) Gate where there's lots of tourists. But it's only 10 minutes from the airport so quick and easy if you decide to go.

Let's move this to the pub shall we!

Updated Para 51,, Crypto. It seems that Mazars is out of date, there is no with holding tax on crypto, it was never implemented. Removed - "There is a 15% with holding tax on proceeds that can be used to offset any tax liability".

I don't agree, there must be a relationship. There must be an overlap between the wealth of some foreigners and locals, it's impossible to think that just being a foreigner means that you're in a wealth class that is far above and beyond that of the local population. That is exactly what locals think when they see a foreigner whereas we all understand the reality is very different. The question is, the extent of that overlap. Yes I agree that in general, foreigners have more liquid wealth than the average native Thai but there's much more to that picture than that alone.

Staying with the theme of 2019, here's a nice graphic that shows visitor arrivals by country of origin, from the NSO. I think it's helpful to understand where the visitors come from percentagewise because that reaffirms Thailand as an Asian destination. https://ittdashboard.nso.go.th/preview2en.php?id_project=124

Thailand always was and always will be predominantly an Asian destination, westerners are a very small proportion of the total number of visitors. Your perception of how many westerner's are here will depend almost exclusively on where you live. Those who live in Pattaya will think that the country is swamped with white devils, those who live in Phitsanulok will imagine Thailand has not yet been discovered by the west!

Because technically, that's what they are.

Yes indeed, everyone is different, the only sad part about being different is not understanding your standing relative to the average and then bragging about it, that's tacky and classless, typically a sign of inherited wealth! You wrote that, "those who say you can live comfortably on Bt50k a month are almost exclusively people who don't have more than that to spend". In a country where the average wage is less than half that amount, your remarks are naïve and lacking in any good taste whatsoever and I presume you are merely trolling. A sign of wealth, class and good taste would be to say nothing.

It's all a matter of perspective: Thailand is an export led economy, over 60% of GDP is derived from the export of goods and services and totals over USD 320 bill per year. The 300,000 or so Westerners living in Thailand account for less than USD 10 bill per year.

An off topic trolling post has been removed

Troll posts hidden, if you don't read the report, you don't get to know, it's your choice.

Did you read the report?

That seems about right to me, a combination of married plus retired and working expats, I thought the split would be around 50/50.

A nonsense post has been removed, so early in the thread too! Don't go there, it wont end well!

Several people appear to want to know the answer so here's the thread to help them find it. See link below to UN's 2019 Migration Report, Page 12. Bottom line appears to be 4.9 millions foreigners, of which, 112k are professional and skilled workers, 50k are special law workers and 150k are retired/married/living with Thai's. In total, Western expats seem to total about 300k. https://thailand.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-06/Thailand-Migration-Report-2019.pdf Over to you: @spidermike007 @ArnieP @lordgrinz @Raindancer See also the previous thread on the subject:

Asking you nicely to start a dedicated thread on an off topic subject is much more preferable, I think, to applying strict forum policy and following the rules and issuing a warning. But I can go that route, if you wish.

The number of foreigners living in Thailand is not the subject of this thread. If you want to know the answer to that question, or how much they spend, there are plenty of web sites out there containing estimates. I used an estimate I know about from previous experience, in order to help answer a point about the subject of the thread, which is about the low cycle economic growth and household debt.

It's just the latest of a series of estimates that have been quoted lately but very much on the high end.

You have to compare apples and apples! Prayut first governed from 22 May 2014 to 10 July 2019, a 5 year period that encompassed 6 budget years, three of which were good, two of which were poor and the last one being mediocre. Whether or not he was personal responsible for the poor performance of the first year is debatable since he took power mid year, he has to take responsibility for the second year however. I'm going to score that as 3.5 out of 5. The covid response period is tricky, there are pluses and minuses. As the DI graph above shows, Dollar strength was a major factor and Thailand is an export led economy. On the plus side, interest rates were kept low and borrowings remined under control plus he did protect the population by closing the country. An over reaction? Dunno, it depends on your priorities. On the downside he didn't recover the economy as well as other countries but I come back to unusual USD strength and exports, especially to China. I'm no fan of military governments but we should be fair and balanced about our criticism and not allow circumstance to distort the picture. My best guess is that Yingluk got lucky rather than anything else, she spent lots of money on giveaways to the people which spurred consumer consumption. There is a wonderful graphic in the Bangkok Post dated 27 July 2023 entitled Reviving Thai Economy is a Tall , Order, please take a look. The graphic compares various economic factors at the start of each term of office for the various PM's. The huge thing that hits you immediately is that Yingluk started office with a massive amount of excess liquidity (823 bill) which she duly spent by generating consumer consumption, that was the main stay of her economic achievements. By the time Prayut took over, excess liquidity was negative (-73 bill) hence he was hamstrung for the first 18 months. In short, Yingluk spent all the savings on the people and did nothing for exports and left no money for the next administration.

That is incorrect, the correct answer is in the Simple Tax Guide.. Capital Gains in Thailand is charged at Personal Income Tax (PIT) rates but a withholding tax of 15% is levied on all proceeds which can be offset against the PIT. This is no different from the with holding tax on savings account interest which can be used to offset any tax liability. https://sherrings.com/cryptocurrency-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

Updated the document with the following: REVENUE DEPARTMENT OFFICES STRUCTURE The main office of the RD is in Bangkok. The country is divided into tax regions and each region is sub divided into districts. Small RD offices are located in many tessabahns which serve the local community. When dealing with the RD, it is advisable to deal with at least District Level offices.