bobbin

On topic...

Both machines are marketed as beginner bikes in Western markets. This is partly because in those markets, 250+cc machines have been sold forever, unlike the less developed markets where only recently has there been an option to move up without going to expensive (highly taxed) bikes.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, all sports/hobbies have to renew themselves. Without new players, the sport atrophies, relying on older and older participants. So encouraging beginners makes great marketing sense.

The fact that the engine is a quarter-litre does not by itself make it a beginner bike though. 250cc is more than enough to cruise comfortably at highway speed, even at 2-up. With enough left to safely execute passing maneuvers.

So is it Honda or Kawasaki? I say Honda. Significantly less expensive.(Advertisers hate the word "cheaper", it has negative connotations.) Newer technology. Better dealer/service networks. Better resale due to brand penetration.

Couple these advantages with the ABS option, which the Ninja 250 lacks, and you have a clear winner. Owners wont really care if it gives up a few kilometres per hour on the top-end. Most of them will be brief visitors to that territory.

For those newer to the sport, the ABS is what is most important. Modern front disc brakes are very powerful, and grabbing a handful at the wrong moment will put the rider on the pavement. ABS eliminates that problem apparently. Like so many activities, the casualty rate is disproportionate among new participants. So safety is good for the rider and good for the manufacturer.

And... in their advertisements Honda clearly states the bike is also aimed at experienced riders who want a good all-round road bike. So the fact that you are riding one doesn't mean you are a "newbie".

So was post made without knowledge of events or was it a malicious attempt at a personal attack?

Dave, we've known each other for a few years now and I really do hope you don't take my constructive criticism of your riding as a "malicious attempt at a personal attack".

Riding motorcycles is dangerous. You've got a wife and a child. Riding in Thailand is DANGEROUS.

Can you imagine going from this-

Peace bro! :jap:

T

Tony

No doubt at all that you were taking a shot at Dave....

Posting the above photo in your response is just icing the cake.

I was here on the forum when the above incident happened. You criticised Dave's riding then and posted the same photo.

I believe I responded to the effect that comments like that were best reserved for a quiet word with the person involved, rather than posting in a public forum. That is still my opinion.

You also have a wife and child, so how do you justify your own riding style in Thailand? Riding bikes anywhere is dangerous. In terms of risk of bodily injury/death, motorcycling has to be near the top of any recreational activity.

You have over 20+ years of riding you say. I have 40+ years of riding experience. That said, you might indeed be a better rider than I. But by what measure? The ability to go around a track in a shorter period of time or by real world criteria? No crashes or injuries for me. Can you say the same? And in another 20 years, when you have the same number of years under your butt that I do now, will you still be crash/injury free if you are now? ( I really hope I didn't just jinx myself...or you.)

After you mentioned Keith Code's video, I got a copy to watch. Found out that, although I have never been a track racer, I already have learned and practice many of his techniques. Trial and error. Old school....

Your response to my request for ABS experience proves that you can contribute quality input on the forum, as do your trip reports. The videos you post showing you rocketing down the highway at high speed are, however, an advertisement for unsafe riding. Dressing them up with statements about your riding prowess doesn't make them any less dangerous. Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer to the effect "Just because I am crazy enough to ride like this doesn't mean you should."

I'm sure you have heard the old saying...

There are old riders and there are bold riders. But there are no old, bold riders.

You are a self-promoter, Tony. I guess we who have been on the forum for awhile have gotten used to that, but try to be a bit more gracious. You make more friends that way.

Added thought..

Sometimes you are more gracious. But it's usually when you are trying to back away from some of your less thought-out posts.

Simon.....

I think Loz alluded to this already, but.....

"Pride goeth before a fall".

Firstly , as soon as costs (lawyer?) passed the original 90K, and with the added incentive of a 1 day stay in the cells, you should have been looking to settle. As in "I surrender".

What did you think would happen? Up against money(less limited pockets than yours), and connections....

I guess you were trying to make a point when you "withdrew" your services but as you point out, your ex-employer was not doing anything illegal in the old porn business. You, however, took the moral high-road and quit/refused to honour your contract. Well, right or wrong, that's gonna cost you. 500K so far.

Start sending out the feelers that you're ready to call "uncle". Your lawyer contacts his if necessary, but better if you can speak directly. Extending the process only extends the loss.

Looked for it on the net. It seems to be concept only.....

But....beautiful!

And...inline 4!

Grow a beard....

Why isn't vulcanizing standard procedure?

Is it only because it costs 150 Baht more than just plugging?

The SuperMax prisons in the United States are an abomination as used, and are unworthy of a civilized nation.

In the words of our Thai hosts, they are "same same but different" to Soviet Gulags. Designed to inflict maximum (non-physical) punishment. They were originally conceived as a solution to incorrigible, violent prisoners who were a danger to staff and other inmates due to life sentences without parole.

They are currently used as a "special punishment" for those the Government is really, really determined to mess with. I'm sure they are a very effective bargaining chip when the Government sits down to deal but this is a perversion of their purpose.

There have been "insider" (read staff) reports that many inmates are driven insane by the regimen of near-total isolation. Man in the Iron Mask springs to mind.

Reading this gives me a case of deja vu..

A lady friend of mine was exhibiting almost identical symptoms.

Loss of appetite. Night sweats. Weight loss. Surgical removal of lymph gland (testing requiring approximately 3 weeks+)

Diagnosis... Non-Pulmonary Tuberculosis. Treatment was/is TB-specific antibiotics for 6 months.

The coughing might indicate "normal" TB, but lymph gland involvement points to Non-pulmonary TB. This is probably what is being tested but takes time to culture.

They have probably already tested for HIV, before removing lymph gland.

TB itself can be contagious(not a concern after about 2 weeks of treatment) but N/P TB is not, as it does not involve the airways, which is the means of transmission. It can lie dormant/controlled for years before breaking out.

^^

Wow! Good karma for you, Kata....

Some years back, on a large group ride outside Chiang Mai during Bike Week, a riding friend went off the side of a mountain road. Despite lots of manpower, took almost 2 hours to get him back up to the road. We used a flat board (lucky find) to help stabilize him during the ascent, then he ended up in the back of a pick-up to hospital. A very small hospital, where the nurses had no idea how to physically handle an almost 100kg farang. Those of us who accompanied the truck had to lift him onto the Xray table. None of us had any training but I knew that we had no choice but to do what we could.

He emerged from the hospital some weeks later as a quadriplegic.....

Last year, my brother was riding with a group of friends on the Going to the Sun Highway in Montana, when one if them also went over the side. No cell coverage. Almost 2 hours before an ambulance arrived. His friend died waiting...

Both accidents in mountainous terrain. Help is not coming soon...

Don't panic yet!!

Reckon it will be a few months yet before we start getting good reports re modifications.

About exhausts or new "cans".....

Do any of the major names offer "burn protector" designs? Only asking since I was happy to see the OEM exhaust has this feature. It might not be the sexiest design but I can live with it, to avoid bar-b-que'd calf.

Riding around in shorts are we? Perhaps you might want to consider a Carbon Fiber pipe as CF does not hold and transmit heat the way steel and aluminum pipes do. Ride On! T

Have you heard the old joke about the difference between Harley-Davidson riders and sportsbike riders?

Harley riders wear $800 worth of leathers and a $10 helmet, while sportsbike riders wear $800 helmets and ride around in shorts and a T-shirt!!

Uh......

Usually, female drivers are not subject to testosterone-fueled highway dueling.

Sounds like the van cut across the sedan and suffered a self-inflicted "pit" maneuver.

The GPS tracking is a good idea for these vans.

The commercial drivers are the worst drivers here in Thailand. I give them a wide berth when I see them coming up behind at the speed of light...

Hopefully(!) this horrible accident will spur some new regulations for vehicles transporting people. Of course, the new regulations would have to be enforced....

About exhausts or new "cans".....

Do any of the major names offer "burn protector" designs? Only asking since I was happy to see the OEM exhaust has this feature. It might not be the sexiest design but I can live with it, to avoid bar-b-que'd calf.

Looks like most dealers are playing fair now and quoting right around the 100k figure.

As far as the lap times, I don't know what a similarly modified Ninja 250 would do, so can't comment.

But....one of those reviews said the bike was "choked" to appease air-quality regulations in EU and USA(primarily). Honda might not be unhappy with this as they are all "Eco" these days. It's one of their marketing angles here in Thailand. That's why the switchover to PGMFi.

Likewise, they may not be unhappy that a relatively inexpensive ECU unlocks some of the power undoubtably left in the engine. This was a clean-sheet design for their Global 250 so there is a good chance they anticipated some modding ala the new MotoGP3 spec. I think there will be a lot of go-faster add-ons over the next year or two.

As for exhausts, everything I've seen here look pretty industrial and don't do much for the look of the bike..

Lucky (but not so smart) guy!

Not many people get bitten by a tiger and live to tell about it...

With suitable embellishments and omissions, he will have a hell of a party story.

That's a good report on a bike most of us haven't seen yet, Paul.

If in fact it's a Yamaha 250 "clone", and it sounds like it is, using original Yamaha tooling, I think it will do well.

There are plenty of Phantoms here in Pattaya, and as word get out, that's a good-sized base of potential customers. Word of mouth reports like yours will help to get that word out. So please continue to update us as you get more miles(kilometers) on it.

Did I miss seeing warranty information?

After almost 3 weeks of off and on troubleshooting and reviewing many websites, I have found the solution!

As above, one laptop was accessible while the other would not get past the log-on. Here is why....

The successful laptop had Windows Live Messenger 2009 installed.

The unsuccessful laptop had Windows Live Messenger 2011 installed.

This alone was not the problem though.

The culprit was Windows Live Sign-in Assistant! It apparently breaks the smbclient software on many non-Windows devices. This is the software that allows sharing. Windows strikes again...

i deleted the 2011 version and found the 2009 version online. I had to do this because the Sign-in Assistant is integrated in the 2011 version. In the 2009 version Sign-in Assistant shows separately in Add/Remove and can be deleted.

Everything works. What a learning curve!

Yes, very hard to read but more good info.....

Thanks for taking the time to explain further. It's all new to me.

Like you say, it's revolutionary......

As a Canadian, the best gift is the chance to ride on Christmas Day!

Merry Christmas to everyone here and farther afield.

More ABS questions.....

Is one of the chief benefits the ability to steer under full (panic) application, like cars? I would think so, as the front/rear wheel never fully locks. Do you just feel the speed bleeding off while still able to steer, or a sensation of hard braking while not quite hitting lock-up? This latter is actually what we try to achieve without ABS, no?

I practice "Look where you want to go" collision avoidance. Can you combine with ABS? By this I mean that while following that practice it often requires you to remain fully committed to the speed you were traveling throughout the avoidance maneuver. Braking more than minimally can interfere. So now I can go into brake mode while retaining my usual avoidance technique? Actually, not full mode, as I don't always stop at present , but to bleed-off dangerous speed? I think you know what I mean.....

That article was not dealing with combinedABS either, so I guess that would be perhaps a multiplying factor versus independent systems.

The review also said Honda had gone for quality components as well. A fast processor and good sensors. Most manufacturers would say something like that but perhaps Honda actually sourced good stuff.

I can absolutely guarantee that everyone who threw stones(!) at this fellow is over 65 years old....or should be.

March on Father Time....

Tony, that was an excellent article on ABS equipped motorcycles!

I thank you for knowing about it and posting it. :jap:

I guess not so surprising to see the additional costs to have an ABS system back then as it was very hi-tech. Almost voodoo.

Knowing you have been riding an ABS-equipped bike, I was expecting a more personal account of your experiences. But it would be hard to top that article. I guess all you could add would be "It's really the way to go, and if it's available, get it!"

I think you are right in that the topic deserves a thread of it's own, so all potential purchasers could refer to it.

Perhaps you could post this up as the starting post in that thread.

Your point about the progression of the technology since the early '90s is noted as well. They talk about how that generation of technology was not quite ready for use in corners. 15+ years later, would you say that the technology has now advanced enough to deal with that aspect of riding? The first review on Richard's site said that this 3rd gen system would change the way we ride.

Although I was thinking of buying non-ABS model at 100k, I am now thinking that even if it means breaking the piggy-bank, it would be a better decision to go with the ABS model.

So, if you start a new thread we can continue there or carry on here as part of the CBR250R thread. I'm still interested in your own experiences with a more modern system.

Thanks again.

jori

You have been beating this drum as long as I can remember....

Either you are a condo owner here in Pattaya/Jomtien, in which case your opinion has merit, or you don't own diddly-squat and your opinion is worth same.

There is nowhere on the planet where real-estate is worth nothing.....:jap:

The current color options are nice but too conservative.

Silver/black with silver tank will be my choice but those fairings are just crying out for some nice graphics!

Hey Tony.....

Did you miss my invitation to make an actual contribution to the Thread re ABS?

If you saw it and ignored because it came from me, maybe it's time for you to go back to the Kawasaki motard thread. I mean, it would show whether on not you are just yanking our chains....

Happy Holidays!

It is fairly common knowledge our PM has a lot to contend with within his own party and that includes corrupt officials. Whilst the status quo may outwardly remain 'civilised' inwardly there is contempt. The PM has the way to solve a lot of Thailand's issues but can he ever garner loyal support from those without corruption?

Wars on drugs tend to consolidate dealers. The supply may slow, but as already stated, there has to be a war on corruption first to absolve the decision makers and then revise the effort based on results by decent people. Randomly picking up a street dealer will not solve the problem. Have inter-dealer shoot outs will certainly save the Police some time, but the drugs will continue.

Drugs are the scourge of the 20th/21st centuries and will not be easily controlled so best to put more effort into perhaps legalising some lesser drugs and removing the demand for something more costly and lethal. I have no solution but there is no doubt in my mind, unconscionable dealers who deal in supplying chemical 'relief' knowing the more they hook the user the more they buy, are the lowest life forms of parasites on this planet and should be taken down with extreme prejudice. They are worthless pieces of kuk and needs to be wiped out from society accordingly.

When you support gunning down alcohol and tobacco manufacturers/retailers, you will have my support (not). Until then, you and others who think like you are a big part of the problem. Vote-seekers will pander to your expectations and the carnage continues.....

The real question is: Does the prime minister have the guts to ensure that due process is carried out in a fair and transparent manner? A leader shouldn't be judge by what he says; he should be judged by his conduct and actions. The onus, it seems, is on Abhisit to live up to his word.

An article that focuses on the symptom of a disease and one that avoids the central factor in Thailand's drug trade: Corruption.

The question that should be asked is if Mr. Abhisit has the guts to take on the drug trade's friends in high places? Does he have the ability to generate support amongst the elites, police and military generals to attack the corruption?

I do not think so. As much as I would like him to act he needs support to do so, otherwise he will be overthrown or worse, physically harmed.

The article is correct in that drug-use is a social, not criminal problem, and will never (short of firing squads) be solved by policing...

Take the profit out and 90% of the problem is gone over-night.