jayjayjayjay

Should have sold them to America

You guys don't get it! I have personally attended every election vote of my girlfriend in Hot city, Chomthong in Chiangmai for the past 9 years. Not a single baht passes into her hand. They vote the Shins in because they like, trust and believe in the hope Shins policies will continue to help improve the lot for country folk. Get you head around this. There is vote buying from both sides, but only in marginal areas or flip flop areas like Buriram n Surin.

And you get it? Since when is a word of your girlfriend or anyone else's girlfriend a reliable source of information in any discussion? Get a grip.

It appears that you need to get your head around this. It keeps happening time and time again. It has got to stop if Thailand is going to move forward.

Thailand red shirt get paid to protest?

All nicely lined up, lists, ID cards and plenty of 1,000 baht notes to flash around. It must be a figment of people's imagination, eh!

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-420390

Read what I wrote. I did not have to rely on my girlfriend. I have been to every election. I have been in the community and at the poll booths. I don't have to rely on hearsay, gossip or inuendo. It is fact I witnesses with my own eyes and ears repeatedly. My only statement is this "city people believe the only reason country people vote for PTP is a bought vote, wrong", I get that, do you get it!

Korn said the democrats spent 300% more in some norther areas and completely have up and spent nothing in Thaksins strongest regions.

Maybe he was trying to make the point that in some areas, the level of bullying and intimidation is so high, even a higher bribe won't change anything.

In MiL's village, all are promised a certain amount, providing the vote for the Thaksin aligned party is 100%. If one person votes for someone else all the money is lost. And, that person would be in deep shit because voting in the villages in anything but secret.

This might be true in some areas... I heard that older voters were still sometimes afraid of threats of being cursed if they took the money and didn't vote the way they were supposed to. In fact someone once told me he had to try hard to convince his grandmother to take the money and vote for who she wanted. This is a friend I know very well from a rural part of Sukhotai which has lately been a Democrat area I think. He said in the old days people would nearly always vote for who they took the money from, but it's gradually changed over the years as the fear of these curses have lessened. As I say, that's in a seat where there's genuine competition though. You sound like you're talking about a seat which is solidly PT.

Question is whether they actually need to vote buy in these seats? Isn't the money just really a token gesture? Because they don't want to spend vast amounts in places where they're sure to win. Similar to what I've heard about the Democrats in the South. People there generally vote for them anyway, so they don't spend huge amounts although they do spend something to ensure client-patron relationships are upheld, as this study suggests:

"Callahan has argued that the south, with its more unified regional identity and strong leaning towards the Democrats, is often seen as beyond vote-buying, yet his study details allegations of illegal practices by the Democrats in Hat Yai in 1995 (Callahan 2000: 50 51), noting that Pollwatch officials believed Democrat vote-buying was widespread in the region (Callahan 2000: 20). He also suggests that bureaucratic bias in favour of the Democrats was quite pervasive in the South, including Chuan¹s own Trang constituency (Callahan 2000: 20, 57). While it may be the case that regionalist sympathies for the Democrats reduced the salience of electoral manipulation in the South it might be suggested that the Democrats would largely win anyway, even without cheating, and that illicit benefits offered around elections were simply part of an ongoing relationship between the party and its supporters southern sympathy for the party did not prevent the commercialisation of elections in the region"

You guys don't get it! I have personally attended every election vote of my girlfriend in Hot city, Chomthong in Chiangmai for the past 9 years. Not a single baht passes into her hand. They vote the Shins in because they like, trust and believe in the hope Shins policies will continue to help improve the lot for country folk. Get you head around this. There is vote buying from both sides, but only in marginal areas or flip flop areas like Buriram n Surin.

You make the assumption that the average farmer is an idiot. I have tens of thousand of farming friends and colleagues. There are no more concerned people on this earth than the owner-grower operator of small medium and large scale farms. Farming in no country is dominated by multinational corporations. Farmers research inputs whether they be chemicals, natural phosphates, methods of legume nitrification, low till operations and or the myriad of processes that apply to achieving a beneficial efficient profit for the botanicals they plant or the fauna they raise. The long and short of it, the average farm is not an idiot, your past statements have clearly been to attach the entire "western" farming culture. Well, I defend my colleagues. Your aquaponics will and can not feed the world. In a dream world it may. But don't for one minute think the average farmer is not interested in your general list of cancers. Eat and drink aquaponics all your life and sorry, the same percentage of your group will suffer cancer, etc. You have no proof of your claims, unless you can show somewhere a populations of 30 million plus that have been eating as your claim. It is pie in the sky and you should keep your mouth shut when it comes to your opinions on western farming techniques unless you can take the heat.

And you continue to take a post about a healthy future of farming in Thailand, and twist it into a personal attack on farmers. You clearly know nothing about Aquaponics, yet attack that as well. You don't say anything factual about any sustainable farming methods that could be practiced here that would help Thailand grow healthy food and help Thai farmers have a better life, (which was the subject of this thread), instead choose to defend petrochemical farming. Your words clearly state that you think farming is as good and healthy as is possible today, which is a factually untenable claim. Keep on trolling.

And define "petrochemical farming". This is new to all of us in agriculture. You have a lot to learn jnr. Keep trying, but you will not feed more than a village or two. In the mean time me and my friends feed the world.

Mandatory conscription & with minimum 5 years service for any of this thugs.

Fortunately, reports are that the air quality remains unaffected.

Do you really think Samut Prakarns air could get worse

A good message to kids highly influenced by these stars.

Ban the cannibal for life.

Take his teeth out! A gummy would be less offensive & less painful.. 555 55555

Funny how the spelling skills go out the window when apoplectically typing. Copious amounts of energy???Unnatural filtration systems??? Are you parroting something you picked up from the Dhow Chemical 20 second course on Aquaponics? You certainly haven't studied the world's leading experts on Aquaponics, Dr James Rakocy, and Dr Wilson Lennard, who, even though they have PHD's in their field, and have spent their lives studying and teaching it, would be the first to admit that science has barely scratched the surface on research and applications for Aquaponics. For starters, Aquaponics uses 90% less water than conventional farming systems. That fact alone should wake up anyone actually interested in facts about the farming potentials. Yet you, in your infinite wisdom and knowledge, dismiss Aquaponics outright as a waste of time. Jeremiah 5:21 (‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not’

Go grow some tasteless, nutrition-less iceberg lettuce and snivel like a rabbit. Hopefully a good farmer boy will see you and dispose of the your fur in a good akubra hat.

Interesting that, when I post about healthy, sustainable farming systems, you turn it into an attack on just one such system, and defend the practice of putting poisons into the food we eat, thereby deflecting what could have been an intelligent conversation about healthy farming for Thailand's betterment. It's also interesting that just yesterday, the Council of Networks of Farmers of Thailand, said" turning to using organic fertilizers and non-toxic insecticides could help reduce farming cost", when talking about how the farming systems here have put the farmers massively deep in debt, just as it has done in the US. 'But hey, here's a pic of me on my tractor, right after I sprayed highly toxic insecticides that are linked to diseases such as autism, an A to Z list of cancers, as well as birth defects, sexual dysfunction, reproductive dysfunction, diabetes, Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s diseases, all over the food I grew.'

You make the assumption that the average farmer is an idiot. I have tens of thousand of farming friends and colleagues. There are no more concerned people on this earth than the owner-grower operator of small medium and large scale farms. Farming in no country is dominated by multinational corporations. Farmers research inputs whether they be chemicals, natural phosphates, methods of legume nitrification, low till operations and or the myriad of processes that apply to achieving a beneficial efficient profit for the botanicals they plant or the fauna they raise. The long and short of it, the average farm is not an idiot, your past statements have clearly been to attach the entire "western" farming culture. Well, I defend my colleagues. Your aquaponics will and can not feed the world. In a dream world it may. But don't for one minute think the average farmer is not interested in your general list of cancers. Eat and drink aquaponics all your life and sorry, the same percentage of your group will suffer cancer, etc. You have no proof of your claims, unless you can show somewhere a populations of 30 million plus that have been eating as your claim. It is pie in the sky and you should keep your mouth shut when it comes to your opinions on western farming techniques unless you can take the heat.

@fab4

Just remember whos lapdog Tharit was, so who do you think he protects.

As for the NACC if your budget get slashed by 60% (presumably by a party that thinks corruption is ok) you can't take all the cases you want too. 60% slash of budget.. that is unheard of, you only do that when you want to cripple an organisation. Guess who did the slashing of the budget.

But whoever is behind the corruption get them I don't care much ANY corrupt official has to be caught no matter what political preference he or she has.

Well the word is that the police Chief demanded an apology from Tharit for poking his nose in - see the Bangkok Post for more in depth coverage than you would get from The Nation - the BP being merely the lesser of two evils in the English Language media world.

As far as the budget for the NACC goes, 60% cut of budget? That appears to have come from this statement;

"Sirilaksana Khoman, the NACCs chairwoman for the prevention of economic sector corruption, said the agencys budget has been cut by 60% from 1 billion baht in previous years." ( http://tdri.or.th/en/tdri-insight/tdri-slams-states-lack-of-public-information/ )

So in the years previous to 2014 (the article linked is dated March 2014) the NACC's budget was 1 Billion Baht.

But in the 2014 Budget the NACC budget was cut from 1.5 Billion Baht to 1.3 Billion Baht. Of course the Dems and their friends in the Senate had to state that the budget was unconstitutional, and asked the Constitutional Court for a ruling on the budget. This they did, and found the budget constitutional.

On September 5, a petition signed by 115 MPs and senators was submitted to the Parliament president asking for the Constitutional Court to issue a ruling on whether the 2014 budget bill violates the charter.

The petition was initiated by appointed Senator Paiboon Nititawan and Songkhla Democrat MP Wirat Kalayasiri.

In the petition, they argued that the Houses ad hoc committee to alter the bill did not consult with the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) or any court, including the Administrative Court, before cutting their budgets.

The panel had decided unilaterally to cut the proposed budget of courts and independent agencies. Originally, the 2014 budget allotted to the courts of justice was Bt18.7 billion, including Bt2.2 billion for the Administrative Court and Bt1.5 billion to the NACC. The committee later altered the figures to Bt14.5 billion, Bt2 billion and Bt1.3 billion respectively.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Budget-bill-constitutional-Court-30216299.html

Therefore the NACC budget for 2014 although it has been cut to 1.3 Billion Baht it is still an increase on the 1 Billion baht Budget the NACC Chairwoman said was cut by 60%. An excuse for not being able to investigate any of the Dems scandals, a crippled NACC, don't make me laugh.

I honestly thought "dusting off" insinuated that NAPO would be investigating wrong doing. How stupid can I be. As with the 2006 coup detat, up the <deleted> budget a few billion, and get the ball rolling so the Dems have plenty of cash for vote buying in next years election. They spend more on vote buying than PTT coz as everybody knows, nobody except southerners and Bangkokian like them coz Aphisit could not organise a root in a brothel!!!!

Can we vote to have Ameriiiiiccccaas removed from this earth... Peace for everyone.

Looks line legalising marajuana might be safer than this addiction!

Funny how the spelling skills go out the window when apoplectically typing. Copious amounts of energy???Unnatural filtration systems??? Are you parroting something you picked up from the Dhow Chemical 20 second course on Aquaponics? You certainly haven't studied the world's leading experts on Aquaponics, Dr James Rakocy, and Dr Wilson Lennard, who, even though they have PHD's in their field, and have spent their lives studying and teaching it, would be the first to admit that science has barely scratched the surface on research and applications for Aquaponics. For starters, Aquaponics uses 90% less water than conventional farming systems. That fact alone should wake up anyone actually interested in facts about the farming potentials. Yet you, in your infinite wisdom and knowledge, dismiss Aquaponics outright as a waste of time. Jeremiah 5:21 (‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not’

Go grow some tasteless, nutrition-less iceberg lettuce and snivel like a rabbit. Hopefully a good farmer boy will see you and dispose of the your fur in a good akubra hat.

And then there are those who, without any knowledge of a science, show their ignorance by making claims unsupported by any facts or personal experience whatsoever, to try to refute that science, for no other reason than to be the contrary grumpy old trolls that they repeatedly and publicly prove themselves to be. Since I have done volunteer work, (which means I do not get paid, and sell nothing), in other countries setting up sustainable farming and aquaponics systems, where output both exceeds input, and yields are superior and mature quicker than unsustainable, petrochemical farming schemes, your statement shows you completely off the mark, once again.

You are yet to answer a single question on input verses output. Do you think you can produce basic protein and carbohydrate botanicals cheaper my Australian farm? Sorry but I am not interested in your volunteer work. Been there, done that.. I have contributed to society but do not find the need to wave a flag as you do. Answer questions on input verses output!

Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.

Plato

Well good to see you crawled back into your modern day nonsense and proved nothing. I encourage you to continue developing aquaponics, I love all things agriculture. But, wise men do have something to say.. and for your benefit, here are some pictures of my farm(s)! I think I have earn't the right to ask at a minimum to justify your claims. And these are all my personal pictures, not shit of the internet. And that's me sitting on the yellow New Holland.

You ask nothing, you insult, demand, and interrogate, yet you expect me to educate you? Amazing!

Good luck in life if you think aquaponics will feed the world. Your last comment here is classic. "you ask nothing", I asked you to provide proof of your numbers, ie the ability for aquaponics to provide efficient food production to a massive and growing population. "you insult", hahahah, you make me laugh even harder,, well it was you that insulted shadmo63 will and agressive statement agaisnt western agricultural systems and I quote ... ""your ideas on the science of sustainable farming methods don't necessarily help" is the height of hubris. To defend the western practices of growing food loaded with toxins, and it's subsequent poisoning of the environment, and the addictions of the farms there to petrochemicals by saying "Modern western farmers take excellent care of their land" are points made without any facts or merit." demand, well "height of hubris" is a pretty extreme insult to our common TV friend, I demand your prove your claim. I did not force you to make the claim, but I did ask you to justify and provide proof..... . .....so, I may talk straight, and I will continue to do so. You are a f88king <deleted>... straight and simple. Go and promote your aquaponics to some other unsuspecting mugs who need to use copious amounts of electricity and all sort so unnatural filtration systems to do what mother earth just just fine already.....ur an IDIOT.

And then there are those who, without any knowledge of a science, show their ignorance by making claims unsupported by any facts or personal experience whatsoever, to try to refute that science, for no other reason than to be the contrary grumpy old trolls that they repeatedly and publicly prove themselves to be. Since I have done volunteer work, (which means I do not get paid, and sell nothing), in other countries setting up sustainable farming and aquaponics systems, where output both exceeds input, and yields are superior and mature quicker than unsustainable, petrochemical farming schemes, your statement shows you completely off the mark, once again.

You are yet to answer a single question on input verses output. Do you think you can produce basic protein and carbohydrate botanicals cheaper my Australian farm? Sorry but I am not interested in your volunteer work. Been there, done that.. I have contributed to society but do not find the need to wave a flag as you do. Answer questions on input verses output!

Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.

Plato

Well good to see you crawled back into your modern day nonsense and proved nothing. I encourage you to continue developing aquaponics, I love all things agriculture. But, wise men do have something to say.. and for your benefit, here are some pictures of my farm(s)! I think I have earn't the right to ask at a minimum to justify your claims. And these are all my personal pictures, not shit of the internet. And that's me sitting on the yellow New Holland.

~SNIP~

There are intelligent discussions, where information is gladly traded between people interested in learning, then there are vitriol spewing trollers, self proclaimed experts on everything and anything, with closed minds, bad tempers, and no real interest in either freely exchanging information, nor learning about anything that goes against what they are so sure is "gospel"!

There are also those that make broad statements as fact which are driven by personal desire to sell ones invested passion. Those global views are not supported by fact or science. Unfortunately you belong to that group thinking your the worlds only saviour. Well, good luck in your mission.

And then there are those who, without any knowledge of a science, show their ignorance by making claims unsupported by any facts or personal experience whatsoever, to try to refute that science, for no other reason than to be the contrary grumpy old trolls that they repeatedly and publicly prove themselves to be. Since I have done volunteer work, (which means I do not get paid, and sell nothing), in other countries setting up sustainable farming and aquaponics systems, where output both exceeds input, and yields are superior and mature quicker than unsustainable, petrochemical farming schemes, your statement shows you completely off the mark, once again.

You are yet to answer a single question on input verses output. Do you think you can produce basic protein and carbohydrate botanicals cheaper my Australian farm? Sorry but I am not interested in your volunteer work. Been there, done that.. I have contributed to society but do not find the need to wave a flag as you do. Answer questions on input verses output!

This lady is a great person and a hero from the tsunami crisis! If you don't know about her you can find a lot about her if you try to. If you make fun of her... Get a life!!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

This lady is all about self promotion. She does work, but there are thousand of hard working public servants that do not wave the popularity flag she does. Leave a bad taste in my mouth, I am surprised you are so easily fooled. The Amry are wise, and are playing as much a popularity game as any of the politician parties.. Thailand needs urgently are decent Constitution and elections asap.

I for one say ChaiYo NOT to this lady, but the silent thousands.

You are not going to lower production costs overnight without a total re-haul of the entire rice farming 'business'.

And producing more of something, at a loss, is not any way to run a business.

In the short-term I might argue that it would be better to produce less, and offer incentives to growers to either not grow rice, for a season or two. Longer term, increased productivity will lead to fewer jobs, so you're going to need to create some sort of social safety net for those displaced.

now they need to start smart thinking

So Thai farmers need to start thinking smart? This is an incredibly simplistic view, perhaps even more simplistic than herr General might spout off.

Most of the costs (seed, fertilizer, water, harvest, milling, storage, transport) are fixed per rai, there aren't a lot of variables save labor.

Its not simplistic at all, and no the costs are not fixed. The variety of rice, how much fertiliser, water, and herbicides are all variables. The regional differences also contribute as some varieties grow better than others in some provinces. It makes sense for those who can to grow more jasmine rice, as its not grown at a loss. But for me the big change has to be in marketing. The system has way too many middlemen, which eventually filters back to the production costs.

Its also about attitude. Many farmers still have the same size of paddy they had 10 years ago. But then they used a small long nose tractor to do the work. Not sure but maybe they cost 80-100,000. But now there is a Kubota infestation sweeping the land. So when Lek sees his neighbour with a brand new orange machine, he has to have one too, because it will make him more efficient. But, the Kubota costs many times more than his old tractor, and doesn't really increase the yield, just makes life easier. So together with 'must have' better fertiliser, the costs have spiralled, but he can still only get two or maybe 3 crops per year. As myself and others have said before on this forum, farmers in Thailand are not that different from farmers elsewhere. They know a lot about production, but not so much about economics and marketing.

When you have a problem, the best solution is always to identify the problem, and fix if permanently. Thailand has the same problem found the world over-a non-sustainable farming scheme. When you must have petrochemicals in order to grow, yet not only does the continued purchase of said chemicals eat way into your profit, the price of these chemicals continues to rise, regardless of the selling price of your crops, and the chemicals themselves degrade your soil, meaning you will need to buy an ever increasing amount just to get the same yields. The idea of yearly throwing more money at your farming problems, but not solving them, is absurd. Especially since there is a sane, financially sound, permanently sustainable alternative.

Which offers a healthier, environmentally safe future for Thailand-cars, or rice, as it's leading export? So why not take a fraction of the monies wasted on the scams/schemes from the past, (rice-pledging, 1 tablet, et al), and give it to the Department of Agriculture, and The King's Project, to be spent on devising and implementing only 100% sustainable farming methods? Sustainable farming isn't rocket science, and given the improvements made in the last generation, to methods used successfully for thousands of years, plus our better understanding of crop nutritional needs, Thailand could quickly turn around it's unprofitable farming techniques, very quickly. Hell, the worlds foremost authority on aquaponics, a PHDer in aquaculture lives right here in Thailand!

Following the failed western model, where you pollute your water table, continually destroy your environment, only to lose money anyway, makes little sense.

I love fluffy sweet powder coated posts like this. Where in the world do you come from saying that western farming systems are non-sustainable! Proof please. "when you must have petrochemicals" errrr, where do superphosphate come from, they are from islands of bird shit, not petrochemicals, unless are you are referring to tractors needing it to plough and harvest. So does that mean the millions of tones yearly of rice, wheat, barley and corn that feed 6 billion people already is a failed system... sorry I see a lot of BS here!

And you want to give more and more money to the Kings Projects. They function perfectly fine as they are. Throwing more money at them is not necessary and I have visited over 30 of them country wide. Sustainable farming is not rocket science, but if 2 people taking care of 5 rai for the purpose of feeding 2 adults plus 3 children is sustainable. they sorry, 5 of the 6 billion people will go hungry very quickly. I have harvested 1000's of tons of wheat, barley and beans in my life, enough for me, but I have feed 1000's of others. So explain to me sustainability in your fairy world of perfection. And don't start on aquaponics,,, lovely idea, but get your head out of the clouds. You have already used the word sustainable farming. Aquaponics requires far more input per output. I suggest you learn a little about such systems before waving a flag to high.

There are intelligent discussions, where information is gladly traded between people interested in learning, then there are vitriol spewing trollers, self proclaimed experts on everything and anything, with closed minds, bad tempers, and no real interest in either freely exchanging information, nor learning about anything that goes against what they are so sure is "gospel"!

There are also those that make broad statements as fact which are driven by personal desire to sell ones invested passion. Those global views are not supported by fact or science. Unfortunately you belong to that group thinking your the worlds only saviour. Well, good luck in your mission.

So it's praise to the Prayuth government. Buttttttttttttttttt... How will the people in especially the northeast cast there vote when in about a year from now with elections yet another shinaparty promises them again high riceprices, way above international market price? Memories can be short then.

Time for a new party as the dems prolly will never get foot on the ground up north. Which I can understand.

And well the Shinaparty will give everyone 500 Baht for the right vote. Than they will win the election. As Super Prayuth will change the laws, the party will be dissolved or half the members red carded.....

Than Abhisit will be premier and again no having any clue what to do, while the reds will tell that the election have been stolen from them. As Abhisit will complete fail again on the next election the Shinaparty will win a landslide. Put her cronies everywhere and rip off the country as complete as possible. Than the yellows will start to demonstrate. The police will have improved measures and the Yellows will have new methods......

and so on till the year 3000.....

Well! Why not adopt a parlimentary system like Switzerland? 7 official PM's 2 each from the three largest party and 1 from the fourth largest. Only concensus on any project/legislation is passed. Either it would work like a charm or nothing at all will get done. One of the 7 are chosen on a rotating basis to serve as PM at functions. What do you think?

Use a bath mat, ones that's quite think. Catch him using the bath mat with fingers well back from corners. Allow him to bite onto the loose part of the mat. Make sure to get a decent hold of him. This way you can catch any ekok or Tokae as most call them. Take him over to the local temple or down the street and release next to some guys house you don't like!

You guys make it all sound so simplistic and easy. "Thailand could quickly turn around its unprofitable farming techniques, very quickly." People have been studying how to increase yields forever, even the King in Chitralada Palace has a garden where he has done his own studies. These things are improved incrementally over long periods of time, like 1.5% per annum, unless there is a scientific breakthrough - eg. a new high yield strain is developed. Thai farmers especially older ones, which are the majority now, are set in their ways and slow to take up new methods, or even try new crops. There is no simple fix. Now with the massive increase in rice exports from India especially the market is saturated and prices have fallen. Thailand with its stockpiles of old and rotting rice has done itself no favours in the export market place.

The failed western model - where? Modern western farmers take excellent care of their land. Food production on the planet is at an all time high. To the point that western countries throw away a third of all the food they purchase. Most of it just going out of date or bad before being eaten. We rarely hear of famines these days except in North Korea and occasionally in the odd African country.

Growing rice is also quite a bit different to growing grain crops your ideas on the science of sustainable farming methods don't necessarily help.

Is Thailands rice/farmer problem due to poor farming methods and unsustainable practices?

Or is it just a massive political cockup by the Shins and bad market forces?

Whatever, it's certainly going to help speed up the rural to urban migration off the land.

I have been reading a bit about growing rice. A couple of interesting facts. 1. Rice plants feed the roots with air/oxygen hence being able to grow in flooded environments, and 2. Rice plants are also Nitrogen fixers, like legumes, hence less need for quality soils and fallow periods.

For someone with (obviously), no knowledge of the latest sustainable agriculture methods, for you to say that "your ideas on the science of sustainable farming methods don't necessarily help" is the height of hubris. To defend the western practices of growing food loaded with toxins, and it's subsequent poisoning of the environment, and the addictions of the farms there to petrochemicals by saying "Modern western farmers take excellent care of their land" are points made without any facts or merit.

Clearly, there is no understanding shown of what the term "sustainable" means, and it's long term benefits.

I wait with baited breath for Thailand to quickly turn around its unprofitable farming techniques, very quickly. And I look forward to seeing your methods, which I'd like you to elaborate on thaimat, being put into practice in the very near future. Thailand needs you now.

Food loaded with toxins; poisoning of the environment; addictions to petrochemicals - just emotion laden cliches spat out by city bound greenies. Or are they issues at the forefront of every struggling farmers mind?

What farmer anywhere in the world doesn't understand what sustainable means, and it's long term benefits?

What a shallow and simplistic view of complex matters. The height of hubris?

Since I have an aquaponics operation in place, ( to the best of my knowledge, the only one of it's kind in Thailand), as well as vermiculture and 100% organic operations, I practice what I preach. I have met many farmers, ag experts here over the years, and a tiny percentage seemed to grasp the concept of sustainable. Farming is hardly a complex matter, to anyone even slightly intelligent. It is simply a matter of proper, healthy growing media, proper nutrition, proper watering, and proper pest control. Anyone that says otherwise has an agenda, usually one that includes the sales of petrochemicals.

You think that "Food loaded with toxins; poisoning of the environment; addictions to petrochemicals" are only "emotion laden cliches"? They are absolute facts, they are the sad norm of farming here, (as well as most parts of the world.)

"He who rejects change is the architect of decay. The only human institution which rejects progress is the cemetery". ~Harold Wilson

I am not the least interested in your aquaponics system. I ask only one question. How many people do you provide a full daily complete meal for and at what price? Tell me your total overheads per output volume?

Pure lease without any downpayment most likely about 45k baht a month (you don't own the vehicle)

If you higher purchase with 20-25% down (taking ownership), month over 4 years probably about 20k baht a month..

XXKHIHF www dot qcleasing dot com asdfdsa