billythehat

Sure.. Remove everything on the foundations.. Dig new larger ones.. Repour (or repile).. and rebuild

This is my point about getting it right first time.. A bad foundation or thin non insulating single skin blockwork is the kind of stuff thats 'non fixable' without starting again..

Quite often the lower end thai buildings have a lifespan designed for a decade or two.. Buying second hand, already well into that lifespan, isnt the same as western homes.

There are short RC pile systems that could be used to underpin the foundations. We normally might only consider their use for instances of structural subsidence due to poor or failing ground conditions. If the sub-structure elements have been under-designed, no amount of Somchai botching on the super structure elements will permit satisfactory lift to extra floors. Given the expense and specialist nature of the system, I’d say forget about it unless you’re really keen on the location.

the structure is for one storey(columns 15x15 with 4 rebars 12 mm), so add the weight of a second storey and it all falls apart

Really? 4 x 12 dia rebars for the main steel for a structural RC column?

You state 15x15...I’m assuming you mean 150mm square sections?

Say, 150x150 for RC column section.

150mm – [40mm cover(x2) - (say 10 dia for shear links x2) + 5mm tolerance] = 150-105=45mm

See how close the rebar main steels are? That is assuming one has found somebody that can bend the shear links to such small dims...I’m also assuming that all usual checks have been performed for buckling, shear and so on. I’m asking as you seem to be aware of the problems regarding disproportionate collapse of structures.

I’m not saying it’s impossible given LLL building control, I’m just saying..

Have a peep at the ‘Tripadvisor’ website and type in hotels in Patong. Usually, there are reviews attached to the hotels which can be quite useful. Some even offer a transfer service from the airport, saving you the hassle of dealing with the chimp touts.

When I was last there in September 2009, Patong had definitely seen better days with regard to service and friendliness, but that’s just an observation. If you’re on the tap and up for a wee bit of badger-watch, you should be okay but take care not to drink at the same well too often and get around a bit before the island becomes one giant landfill site.

Firstly, I'm pretty good at knowing when a conversation with someone, has gone as far as it will go, and any point after that is a waist of every bodies time. I'm sure you'll agree that point is upon us.

No, you're right - my friends have only been here for 15 years or so. You've obviously far more experience.

It's fairly obvious to all, that I have at no time claimed to be more experienced than people who have been here 15 years. The simple reason that I couldn't have possible claimed such, is that 6 pages in to the thread you haven't mentioned it once. You have however mentioned you friends with 3 years experience several times. People will make of that what they will. I believe the technical term is inadmissible evidence.

Those who have only been here 3 years or so are still adjusting - some find the whole scene revolting, others (like me) are concentrating on the good aspects.

Some find the whole scene revolting??? Where do you start with that statement. Firstly they find something revolting, not mildly annoying, not a bit of a pain in the ass, but revolting? Yet they are still here three years on?? Secondly, have I accidentally stumbled on to a thread about nightclubs, or punk rock music or something? I'm talking about living somewhere, raising children, living a peaceful life, and your talking about a scene!!

Those that have half Thai kids (and ex Thai wives) are the ones that are really vicious.

I don't really know what that means to be honest, but it sounds like they probably fall in to my 'wheels fallen off' category. It does however answer my question. You obviously don't have a Thai partner or half Thai kids!

Those that have managed to avoid having kids, whilst enjoying the easy, cheap female company are not exactly easy-going on the subject - but at least don't have the same problems.

Again not entirely sure what that means!! Aren't easy going on what subject? Anyway, I don't think they really fall in to the 'settling down to a normal life in LOS category' so weren't ever really part of my argument.

Okay, Confused of England, as others logic still appears to be tying you in knots, allow me to help you out

You work 18 hours a day and pay taxes in England. You holiday for whatever period (varies by post) in Thailand. You have not moved full time to Thailand to retire/whatever. You have stated this very clearly and nobody has misunderstood.

You do not live in Thailand. Period.

One persons 'well balanced facts' is anothers 'negative anti phuket vibes' ?!?!

Yes, and the other way round as well, that is the problem with these kind of discussions. With completely different points of view there will never be agreement. I think it is important to understand that somebody else has a different point of view and to accept that point of view. Neither is right nor wrong, and that seems to be difficult concept to a lot of people here on both sides of the discussion.

"I think it is important to understand that somebody else has a different point of view and to accept that point of view."

Fair enough, but not that 'important' enough to order other's about their points of view, eh?

"Don't think your perceptions to be some kind of absolute truth please"

Just for the record, I would be really happy if Thailand went back to the way it was when it was given the title, "Land of Smiles." We all know it has changed and you now have to be on your guard. We have all seen the decline in friendliness and tollerance on the island, and Thailand in general, and the increase in collusion, price fixing, theft and violence. I certainly don't want to be scammed, or see anyone else scammed.

I concede, there will always be scams and the criminal element in society, but, if by gaining extra knowledge on these scams you can avoid them, well, that's a good result.

A reasonable summation. Oh for those halcyon days that only come around once, eh?..heh heh..

I agree that if anyone can pass on tips, they should, and not worry too much about what the concrete slipper squad deem as truisms or alleged perceptions. Their own shock of finding just how many folk know how big a ‘pinch of salt’ is, could be quite traumatic.

As for the t-shirts, I advise any young buck heading south to simply stock up in Bangkok where the same tat can be bought for up to 1/5^th of the Somchai price on the island. For example, Somchai wants bt250 for a t-shirt there, same item bt99 from Somchai at the MBK in Bangkok. So, up to you farang.

In the sad & not so minor accident in which two young men were killed when they collided on Chao Fa East yesterday, I wonder how it will be handled in terms of compensation if the families wish to pursue it.

I agree and I hope the only surviving witness pulls through his injuries and is able to give his account of what happened. Whatever the Somchai investigation finds may or may not have caused the accident will just be going through the motions and sadly there’s nowt anybody can do about it. See how it pans out. 22 years is no age...sigh...

Wisdom has nothing to do with it. I'm no wiser than the next guy, and I'll happily admit, probably much less so. Common sense and logic however, I believe are just as important, and I try to do the best I can at both.

(I honestly believe that common sense should be taught in school in some way)

Implying that a whole race of people are shameless, apart from being fairly offensive, undoubtedly falls in to the illogical category. Which then set of alarm bells in my brain and lead me to post a sarcastic reply.

Unlike others, I very rarely, if ever, feel the need to be randomly rude to people. There is normally a reason that has lead me to feel justified in making the comments I do, and I can assure you a feeling of intellectual superiority isn't one of them.

If you have an argument, as to why what you said wasn't illogical, then I would be interested to hear it.

I could see no implications in Mr Salty’s sentence as it was mere rhetorical frippery. Not a difficult concept to grasp. I too look forward to his reply.

No, They're all at it! My wife does it at least twice a month. Some members of her family do it daily. My Thai neighbour, only doesn't do it because he can't ride a motorbike, but he cheers and claps whenever he hears about it.

Nothing bad ever happens in woohoo world.

Today my waterproof camera wasn't as waterproof as it was supposed to be and drowned, and as I mentioned in another thread, I was served a San miguel light instead of a normal San miguel. A very bad day in Woohoo world.

Anyway, how was I supposed to react to a ridiculous comment such as "Are there no Thai people with a sense of shame at these disgusting set ups" Did nothing about that sentence strike you as being wrong when you read it??

No, probably not with Mr Bear, as he was not the author of that perfectly legitimate statement. Mr Salty should be able to help you out with your query.

Well as you now have a young family.. How happy would your wife truly be in the west ??? No family.. No friends.. No Thai food..

How about once you child is in school, so easy to uproot that, change his curriculum, freinds, languages, etc..

Me I have a passport that lets me go anywhere.. I can go live in the gold coast, or NZ, or the states, or or.. But my wife cant.

Its not so simple.

Plus I love my life, but I just see many changes in the last few years that are not for the better, and that worries me..

The other side of the same coin..

“Well as you now have a young family.. How happy would your wife truly be in the west ??? No family.. No friends.. No Thai food..”

Sample 3 lads I know and my cousin, all live in the west – happily married to Thai lasses, 2 have children. I know the lasses well and none have ever expressed any desire to return to LLL. There are established Thai communities here and friends and contacts are formed. Thai grub is easy to obtain.

“How about once you child is in school, so easy to uproot that, change his curriculum, freinds, languages, etc..”

Perfectly feasible objective. The educational opportunities afforded by a good western school would give Somchai junior a better start in life, but obviously that depends on what the parents want.

“Me I have a passport that lets me go anywhere.. I can go live in the gold coast, or NZ, or the states, or or.. But my wife cant.”

Curious statement...are you saying that Mrs Los would be unable to obtain a visa for these countries?

“Its not so simple.”

It’s not impossible either, but I do understand some of the hoops you have to jump through to get permanent residence for a spouse. Friends and family have told tales of long delays, paperwork and lots of cash before all the t’s are crossed and the i’s dotted. The frustrations have often tested the real strengths of folk’s relationships, for sure.

All previous unnecessary bickering aside..

I would have to think, that going to ANY developing nation for a holiday is going to be less frustrating that having to deal with its (minor) drawbacks long term.. Just stands to reason that in a short vacation your going to see the high points.

Sir, I can agree with you slightly here as I'd already made the point, "no amount of cloying rhetoric and patronising waffle will disguise the reality of any demograph you care to mention" in an earlier post to a resident Thai spokesperson. However, I cannot agree that what you consider 'minor' drawbacks are anything but minor in cause and effect. Valentine says he tries to point his guests in the right direction and offers advice about avoiding the scum, but sadly his sage guidance is not always available to the vast majority of visitors.

LOS: "Just stands to reason that in a short vacation your going to see the high points."...yes, quite a reasonable statement, but equally you are just as likely to be exposed to the low points too. A wee bit of advance reading up will/does help on any chosen holiday destination – Phuket being the theme on this thread. Most guide books for obvious commercial reasons, are hopeless regarding certain realities of any given destination and hence the value of websites that offer forums to discuss such, whether this upsets the incumbent inmates with vested commercial interests or not.

Firstly, calling someone a retard, as I often do, (it seems to be my favourite word) is rude, therefor I was being hypercritical. Fair game, you got me on that one. Although there can be no disputing being rude to someone in the middle of a discussion/argument, can not possibly be compared to randomly opening threads to be rude to people for no apparent reason, as so many people do. That is surely retarded behaviour.

As for being in Thailand. I can't be blamed for thinking otherwise. I clearly remember a post where you said not only that you lived in England but that it was a much better place to live than Thailand. I would also be prepared to make a bet that if you honestly told us how much time over the last few years you spent in LOS it wouldn't amount to a great deal, which don't get me wrong, is only relevant when you are trying to tell someone, that has spent a lot more time here than that, that his perceptions of the place are wrong, and some sort of naive delusion.

As for me taking care of myself and my family, you obviously missed the point where I said that I haven't had a single problem, living here on and off for 9 years, and you definitely chose not to read 'Logbags' post where he said the exact same, yet over a vastly longer time scale. Or maybe you did read them, but decided that we're way to naive to know the harsh realities that you know. (What is it with that rose tinted glasses nonsense anyway?) To be honest, if you were someone that mattered, I would be extremely insulted and angry that you implied that I would knowingly put my family in any undue danger. But you're not, so I'm not.

To be perfectly honest, I enjoy disagreeing with 'LivinLOS' and other TV members a lot more than I enjoy disagreeing with you, so if it's all the same, I'll leave our interaction here. Although having some interaction with you is a lot better than your usual, jump in, be rude and obnoxious for no apparent reason, jump back out, approach to TV posts

Dear oh dear, you’re not very good at this are you?...off to a fine start and then fell at every fence there after...I’m not betting on a lame duck so save ya money...a few more smug posts and you may just get the hang of it...ah well...next..

Love,

Billy the confirmed British passport holder – never denied.

Favourite and best countries to have lived in (so far) – England, Ireland and Bavaria in Germany. I still want to go to Japan.

Does not own – Rose tinted specs.

"No mate, not on an internet forum I wouldn't."

At last, the removal of those rose-tinted specs..

"You're worse than the rest of them."

That's a big cheers, mate, I thought I was falling behind..I owe you a beer for that..

"You tune in to TV regularly, to be negative about Phuket, from the other side of the world!!! How sad is that?"

I've been travelling around northern Thailand for the last 2 months and I'm staying in Bangkok until the end of February, and then onto Brisbane for work – how sad is that?

Being rude? I believe you accuse whom you consider lesser beings, "border line retarded."...mmm...double standards perhaps?

"along with the whiners and moaners, stop burdening the rest of us"

I think you may find yourself outnumbered there, old chap, by trying to ram down a flawed agenda down other folk's necks.

"Why you think we deserve to suffer because of the chip on your shoulder, is beyond me. Mate."

Ha ha! All of TV Suffering? We? We? Suffering because somebody has a different opinion than you? Yes, I can see why it may be beyond you...calm down and just accept that others take the reality of the safety of themselves and their families slightly more seriously than your kind self when holidaying in Phuket. I think TV does an excellent job of covering all aspects of Thailand, good and bad, and is an invaluable source of information for everybody. Thank Buddha they don't just pander to the rose-tinted-specs brigade, crivvens, where would we all be then?

Listen, mate, whilst foaming at the mouth aboard your own high horse (probably called ‘Mate’) I think your argument, mate, fell at the last fence with that line, ‘and then whine about such petty things, such as a poor bus service’. Well, mate, to counter the tenet of what that other fine mate, Midder LOS (and others) had muted, (murders, stabbings, robberies, rapes, etc,) with comparisons with the bus service is quite risible, mate, considering the fine education and intelligence you may have. Mate, you allude to the ‘Thailand people have so little’ routine, and that, mate, always makes me reach for the bucket. Mate, do you really think that Lalaland bears any comparison with other countries where ‘real’ poverty exists? No, mate, Lalaland, is a rich country. Mate, your glib attempt a sarcasm regarding you, mate, getting attacked daily by Tuk Tuk scum..blah, blah, beggers belief...should reality ever come rattling at your door one day with the sickening news that your child had been raped and murdered, mate, would you not consider that worth whining and moaning about? Mate, no amount of cloying rhetoric and patronising waffle will disguise the reality of any demograph you care to mention.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

you wanna bet?...heh, heh.. lol:

....mmmm...from the comments taken on that meeting, one could summarize that the Island is suffering from the 'El Somchai Effect.'

Oh, to have been a guest speaker at that meeting...

Somchai: "Okay, we all hab agree. My cousin me, him hab sticking plaster factory, do large size to fix big popem wid water here. Also I hab 2 plastic buckets to sell that me no need as I hab clean Mercedes wid hosepipe."

Farang guest speaker: "May I offer some suggestions?"

Somchai's: "NO, yoo hab not...Farang yoo go."

Farang guest speaker: "Okay, but I should mention I know General Somchai Porncorruptittii and he said that if I had any trouble......"

Somchai: "...mmm...okay, farang, but yoo hab make it quick....(snarl, sulk..)

Farang guest speaker: "Had you considered a pumping station located on the mainland to supply demand in drought times?...or possibly a desalination plant?...."

Somchai: "....Fawang....yoo hab eggsackry terty minni to be on that plane...yoo unnerstan me?..."

The Bog-Paper-Scam.

You all know what I mean. At any Somchai establishment there exists the enigma of why Somchai, who, after grudgingly providing a cracked toilet with no seat, (with bodged plumbing so that the water level is only just below the rim) decides that seeing as he doesn't wipe his own backside, doesn't see why you should, and steadfastly refuses to provide that symbol of all that is proper and decent to modern civilisation, Bog Paper. Happy is our Somchai to spend his mornings unblocking the u-bend, choked full of crumpled soiled pages from the Bangkok Post, rather than supply a few sheets of the white stuff....I really can't work it out...

Somchai: "Hah! Farang no hab get one on me!" (glug glug...rummage...gag..)

Keep your hat on Billie - I was merely retelling an experience. I've been had a couple of times in change from bars, but this was the first for a minimart. Perhaps I should have balanced it by mentioning that about 18 months ago, at the minimart on the NE side of Sainamyen, near Ratuthit, I inadvertently dropped a 500 baht note when having paid for smokes with a 1000. One of the shop girls chased after me in the street waving the note. I gave her a B100 tip for her good deed, which she was extremely loath to accept.

Quite incredible...Although I think I can explain the first refusal. There have been reports that your choice of after-shave is a wee bit on the strong side, but that notwithstanding, I’m surprised you didn’t follow that lass up...an honest Thai?...we should have her stuffed...is there a vivisectionist in Patong?

“Many disputes between passengers and drivers are the result of misunderstandings, he said.”

Well I’m glad that’s cleared that one up. The beatings are the result of the evil and dumb farangs failure to understand that they must submit to being robbed. Yep, that should put the visiting families mind to rest on this matter. Nice one Somchai.

Four or five years ago, I got short-changed in that popular minimart in the middle of Bangla. I could tell by the look on the young bloke's face that he knew he was caught out, because his expression became very sheepish immediately I began to check my change (B100 shy from B500 given over for a pack of smokes). (He probably reckoned he could get away with it because I'd had a few sherbs.) I had a (verbal) go at him and he left - took off out the shop. I asked one of the other staff for his name. 'Not know.' You don't know your work mate's name? 'Not know.' Where is the manager? 'Him not come'. His name? 'Not know.' When will he come to the shop?. 'Not know'. Give me his telephone number. 'No hab.'

Sounds like fiction, doesn't it? Clearly, it was a common practice in that shop at that time... Short-change customers who've been on the sauce.

Ping: “and those who really know and understand how and why things work the way they do”

So, Harry Callaghan, what happened on that night then, eh? heh heh, ‘Go ahead, Somchai, make my day.’

Thanks for the reply.

My girlfriend is not thai, so i dont think she will be offended haha.

is there anywhere, I could organise before I get there? (somewhere online thats in english and cheap?)

C7: "My girlfriend is not thai"

Thank Buddha you told us that as I was gonna say, don't waste ya dosh on the flowers as it would be the money that bought the flowers that she requires and not the flowers.

I was given flowers from a Thai lass once and it left me a wee bit confused for a few minutes. I was sure that I'd convinced her that I was a skint, no-good scumbag but had obviously underestimated her capacity for sarcasm.

You also can't fail with some good quality chocolate as you can tuck-in too.

designer label scams (various)

But the funny thing is that the copies are generally better quality than the originals!

I know a lady that buys 20 or so T-shirts for her kids every time she visits. She used to buy the originals until she discovered they fell apart/lost their shape after a few washes - the copies don't, and look great for the entire year until she comes back and gets the latest 'must-have' T-shirts.

Some moons past, when there were more markets adjacent to the 200 year road, between what is now the Jung Ceylon mall and soi Andaman square, I bought a blue ‘Levi’ button shirt from one of the many market stalls. I decided to wear it there and then and went about my biznit for the day. It was April and stifling hot and sticky and so I was glad to get back to my air con hovel at the end of that day. I couldn’t wait to get into the shower but just as I was going in I noticed that where the shirt had clung to my skin was an imprint of dark blue dye from the shirt. Took 2 days to get it all off..that’ll learn me.

Re the lady drink business - I have no problem with them taking no alcohol in their drinks - a lot of them are non-drinkers (and I'm sure that most of them started out that way). They have to drink alcohol to get their cut (usually anything from 30 to 70 baht per drink, depending on the bar policy). If I wander in to a bar and buy one of the staff a lady drink, I make it clear that I will pay the lady drink price even if they only want pineapple juice without the Malibu. Quite often they gratefully accept the offer. I don't see anything good in forcing the girls to drink alcohol (in order for them to get some money together to send home) when they don't really want to. I have no problem paying the lady drink price, and those who really know and understand how and why things work the way they do would agree with me. Of course, your typical ten day tourist or deep-pocketed short-armed expat (aka kee niaow) would never understand...

...mmmm... Pull oop a chair and cool your boots, Reverend, nobody inferred forcing the tarts to drink hard liquor. As NKM stated, it was just a marker to keep your eyes and ears open to deception and not flag waving an invite to a patronising diatribe on 'how and why things work.

...get some money together to send home." The money that gets sent home? Yeah, right...not much lolly left after, the expensive phones, food, clothes, drugs, booze, 'give money bar' because they're too lazy to turn oop for the job, etc...

Doubt that owt has changed much concerning the usual suspects:

Gem scams, the Tailor goons, the jet-ski chimps, wolf pack mentality massage lasses, almost anyone lying to your face as a way of life, greedy bar bosses who reckon they’re East-End villains, the vehicle insurance scams against the evil farang, Thai run guest house/hotel scams (various), any Thai man sporting a beard who is trying to flog you anything (very dangerous), fake discounting (Somchai thinks of a high figure then applies a ridiculous % discount and then sells at the still ridiculous high price – tip: ask for a discount of 50% of 50%.. ) If you are so inclined to buy the Buriram beauty a lady drink, (e.g. whisky hab cola,) take a wee sniff to check if there is actually any liquor in the glass, designer label scams (various) and (almost) finally, always check your change..

Katabeachbum: "payed 500 baht fine"

I assume you asked for and received a receipt?

Grasping Somchai's to one side a moment but still related.

News here (UK) is that growth will be flat for pretty much most of 2010, plus the effects of VAT raising again to 17.5% (January) and increases in N.I. come May, continue to have an enormous effect on folk's spending. How disappointing that what could have kick-started the recovery for many small to large businesses and 100's of thousands of workers, was squandered paying billions in bonuses to the *******'s who caused the mess we're in now...