thaipete

My wife and I just bought 150 rai (Saw bpaw gaw) in Kampaengphet. My wife's family will grow mansambpalang and will also start to grow rubber trees.

My thought process on this as follows:

-The land will increase in value over time and at a purchase price of 15,000 baht/rai, it's pretty cheap. Total 2.25M Bt.

-According to the Aw bpaw dtaw, the land will be upgraded to chanote within 2 years. (I'll believe that when I see it and really I'm not that concerned about whether it's Saw bpaw gaw or chanote other than hopefully in the long run 20+years, it'll be chanote).

-My wife's family can make a very good income growing mansabpalang and whatever else in between the rubber trees for the first 2 or 3 years. My wife will take 50% of the net and her family will get the other 50%.

-Our 50% will be put towards the costs for setting up the rubber trees. I'm sure my financial requirement will be much more than that and I'm not even really considering this income.

-The land is in my wife's name and this gives her family a sense of security as this is a gigantic asset to a typical Thai chonabot family such as hers.

-We have 2 children and this will be an asset for them for the future no matter what happens to me or my financial situation.

The land we bought in KPP is very flat and is along a klong. The rainy season in KPP is roughly May to Nov so it's very long. I can build an irrigation system from the klong for the dry months so hopefully I can have a solid 9 month growing season and 6 years later, a 9 month tapping season. The land seems really ideal for rubber, very flat, lots of available water, good soil.

I have searched "rubber" on this forum and read many threads on the subject. Lots of great info available.

It seems that a producing RT plantation will generate around 250KG/rai/yr according to the official Thai stats that I found via the threads here. Maybe I can get more than 250KG/rai based on my land appearing to be very good but I'll go with 250 for my calculations. Rubber price 60 to 90 bt/KG.

250KG x 150 rai x 60bt/KG = 2.25MBt/yr.

If the rubber price is 90bt/KG then the return is much greater 3.375M Bt/yr.

There is a further gray area.

I don't know how much fertilizer will cost per rai. I understand it changes for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd year etc.

I don't know how much my irrigation system will cost. My land is quite square and one side is along the road and opposite is along a klong.

The 2.25M bt or 3.375M bt potential revenue will be minus fertilizer, plowing costs and a one time cost for irrigation installment and gas to power it (if I decide to do that) and a tractor (buy or rent??). Also energy cost for the irrigation system. I'll pull a number out of the air here, average cost per year for all those expenses (averaging the one time costs in) 200K Bt/year. If somebody can provide a better estimate of the costs, I would really appreciate it.

After 6 years, my expenses will have been 200Kbt/yr x 6yrs = 1.2Mbt so my total investment goes from 2.25Mbt (land price) plus 1.2Mbt (expenses) = 3.45Mbt in pure baht spent.

6 years later my land will be generating 2.25Mbt/yr (if 60bt/KG) or 3.375Mbt (if 90bt/KG) before expenses. Then deducting expenses the total annual return is:

If 2.25Mbt – 100Mbt (fertilizer) – 50M pump cost = 2.1M – 40% for labour = 1.26M/yr

If 3.37Mbt – 100Mbt (fertilizer) – 50M pump cost = 3.22M – 40% for labour = 1.93M/yr

1.26Mbt/3.45Mbt = 36% annual return on investment - or if rubber is 90bt/KG

1.93Mbt/3.45Mbt = 56% annual ROI

That 36% to 56% annual return on my money would start in year 6 or 7. However, if the land has a value of 100,000bt per rai then my 150 rai would be 15M Bt. Fantastic 300% return in 6 years from my total investment price of 3.45Mbt. The 100K bt/rai price is arrived at because I think that is the price today per rai for producing RT land. Would be happy to hear if I'm off on this.

Ideally I will have the land tended to very well and after 6 years, I'll have a well managed plantation producing the maximum that can be produced from that land. After that, I would hope to keep the land and work it and reap the financial benefits for many years. The other option is to sell the land or part of the land. You would have to presume that the land will go up in value. Hopefully it'll be chanot, the road will be paved and there will be RT's ready to start producing. What does that equal??? 100,000 bt/rai. I'm really not sure.

Personally, this is not a significant asset for me so if I lost the whole thing, it really wouldn't mean anything other than being a piss off. It is simply a way to help my wife's family out, ensure my children have an asset in Thailand and if it generates 1 or 2M bt per year for me, then that's a nice bonus. I already have put away money for my kids education so it's not a critical issue for me monetarily.

If anybody wants to take the time to read through this and make comments, I would welcome them.

Thanks…

I wish I could get somewhere near 90B per Kg, untreated rubber except for formic runs at 20-40B per kilo, treated and pressed into sheets which is quite a process the normal selling rate is about 70B at todays prices (untreated 30B yesterday).

Modern variations of rubber trees can generally be tapped after 4-5 years, I put a sprinkler system on mine which is expensive initially but cheap for usage, I put a large Lister Diesel on a local government reservoir so is cheap to run and not used that often but with the recent dry spell we are getting a better yield than the neighbouring farms.

The main worry with the tappers is knowing their ability and honesty, luckily my ex and family are trustworthy, the normal split is 60:40 % owner to tappers and the owner buys all, fertiliser, formic, weed cutting etc, and other materials do not really make much of dent in the income once the trees are established.

Your estimates for fertiliser, if solely for the rubber is way over the top, you need to have a tractor in sometimes about every 3 months to cut the weeds, as continual spraying with weed killer harms the trees.

Also during the first few years of the trees maturing period you can grow various other crops such as pineapple or tapioca between the trees. I can find out the exact costs for you but I doubt the fertiliser will cost 20,000B pa for the rubber alone, weeding perhaps 6,000 I presume you family will do the pruning etc when and as necessary

I have flown EVA many many times business and a class in between Economy and business used yo be an additional £90) on economy price Lhr-Bkk, I have also flown via several of their way ports and all OK. I have found their service and their executive lounges excellent

I had a bar in BKK some years ago and it was not unusual to have BA pilots in for a few well within their limited hours

I'm thinking of visiting my embassy for a proof of residence and then apply for a Thai driving licence. Do i really need a Thai driving licence when i've a International Driving Permit and i dont stay for more than 6 months? I heard that the National parks have stopped giving local rates to foreigners w thai driving licence. So what's the incentive?

You don't mention the type of visa that you obtain to enter Thailand. The visa type makes a difference.

Usually come on a tourist visa. So i've to go to my embassy.

I doubt you will get one on a tourist visa without friends in the department

Diificult one to answer. I was in the same quandarry last year but decided to get one anyway.

As far as I see it there are 2 main benefits:

1) Since having my license I have been stopped 2 times in the car, shown the Thai DL, and been waved on. Prior to that I was stopped 4 or 5 times, and encouraged to donate to the 'tea fund' on each occassion.

2) The national parks are in disarray at the moment, some will allow Thai DL's to get Thai price, others won't (see separate thread on this - there seems to be no definitive answer). If you get in one park at Thai prices then you have covered the cost of your DL, residency cert, and medical cert.

Dual pricing is not confined to national parks however. In Pattaya I regularly have to go to the Crocodile Farm and Pattaya Park with visiting guests, both of which will charge Thai prices on production of a DL (There are lots of attractions that don't, but I am sure there are many others that do).

Going to get my 5 year DL in a few weeks, I would say that I have saved the 550 baht fee nearly 10 times over in the last 12 months.

Edit to add: You don't need to go to the embassy to get residency cert, local immi will do it for 250 bht I think.

Correct the local immi will give you proof of residence with your Landlord/Ladies permission about 200Baht as opposed to 3,000 from embassy. I got mine recently but had to take the test, I think because they used a well out of date Thai license of mine rather than IDP but got a 5.5 year license immediately

I have traveled the world extensively since the 60's and I have seen how the American style tipping has ruined and often degraded the local peoples. It also makes a load stone for those that follow.

not so much in Pattaya but up country most small bars restaurants etc. are family owned and priced so that they get the income needed, they do not expect and should not be given tips, a rule of thumb I learnt a long time ago here was that if the change was not brought on a tip tray never offer a tip.

Pattaya is certainly not the real Thailand in fact far from it. I agree thoroughly learn a little Thai especially the numbers I know of very few countries where a drunk tourist will not get ripped off when they make no attempt to speak the language

My land is owned by my ex not even wife, her honesty is unquestioned, I gave her 2,000,000 baht in cash once and it was paid straight into my account, I have known her 25 years, my worry was also and unexpected death.

I had her make a will allowing me to live the rest of my life on my/her property and reap the rewards of the rubber. Then registered it with the land department.

I'm amazed at the amount some people pay in Thailand...Especially for buying houses or renting apt's. I spend not more than $1500 a month living in LAS VEGAS. This includes rent, food, car insurance, a movie or some form of entertainment once or twice a week. Eating out once in a while. In Thailand over 8 months I spent on the high end $1200 a month and on the low end $350 a month. I rarely drink and eat simply from the market or from thai food stands. I don't have a family, and am happy living simply so this may have something to do with it...

i, too am amazed at what it seems to cost some people to live in thailand. i have some farang friends in isaan who have everything they need, do not count the pennies, and live well on less than 15000thb per month.(what's that in dollars?- about 360?)

it seems your cost of living depends on where you live in thailand. in isaan, visit the local (iso listed, clean and efficient) hospital and pay 30thb per consultation;. get a good meal,say, phad capow-30thb including a can of coke. 3 beer chang (quarts) for 100thb.-even in the "restaurant"; hospital stay for myself, 7days, included minor surgery, xrays, medication-5000thb all in;. schoolfees-400thb per year-included books. free (good) medical for my kids; vegetables are cheaper at the talaat than they would be if you grew them yourself. pork (i only eat pork fillet): 80thb/kg. whole chicken(farang-type, battery-raised chicken-not the scrawny, tough gai-baan):35thb/kg. water: my bill averaged around 30thb/month- i only used municipal water, and watered my garden each day,too!

use the municipal bus service long distance and it costs you about 2thb/km. electricity is cheap, gas is cheap, accommodation is cheap . here's what it cost me on average to live each month in isaan. ( includes myself and my two boys):

electricity......... ... <1000thb (do without the ac you soon get acclimatised)

water................ . .<50thb

accom.................free (owned my own) 000

food.................... <4000thb {5kg pork fillet/week=400thb, add veg and chicken-eat well for <1000/week

schoolfees and pocketmoney for kids...........<500thb

petrol/diesel............................................<1000thb (use the buses, rather. really cheap, and good fun)

beer....................................................... 3000thb (allow 3 beer chang quarts per day)

visa run: ................................................1200thb (take the bus,then minibus, fight with the cambodian officials and do not pay for exit stamp. do not pay bribes. 300km round trip, no agents 6hours.)

total.......................................................10750thb

that leaves another 4750 odd for other small expenses, including internet cafe (20thb/hour),adds up to 15000thb. i did it for less than half of that when i had to, but, yes, then you have to live like a thai, and ,know what? wasn't so bad!

a good quality of life can be had in isaan, on a shoestring budget. don't have to pay for entertainment, either- just look around and you will find something to make you laugh or smile almost every minute of the day. obviously it helps,too if you are not supporting the extended family, and are not going to the "cathouse" every night.

by the way, in isaan you can get a maid/housekeeper who will clean, cook, look after the kids, work from 7am to 6pm for around 3000thb/month, 7days a week. she supports her whole family on this, since mostly the husband won't be working. he manages to get pissed every day on what she brings home, so why can't we live on 15000 per month?

That is a much more realistic budget, I live up country and own my own house but I rented a nice 2 bedroom bungalow here up until 2 years ago for B2,000 per month.

My food bill is a bit less and that includes a run to Pattaya for Farang foods sometimes. Now we have a Lotus Tesco here not often.

I live alone but as I am disabled my ex does a lot of shopping for me. I can live well on about 10 - 15,000 per month.

Entertainment here, going to local night clubs and bars it would be hard to spend 500B and that is with loads of girl drinks ( they usually drink the spirits you take in and no corkage)

I have a couple of rubber farms here in SE Thailand and they are everywhere here, My staff one of whom is an agricultural graduate has never hard of topping, my newer farm the trees are less than 3 years old are already over 4 metres.

Are you sure he does not mean cutting off the side branches, this is necessary to allow good cutting

isn't there a thrad somewhere with cool old pics of walking street years ago?

I have videos of driving from one end of beach road to the other in 1978, Walking street was two way then

Looks rather like termites, break it up and see if there are loads of little white buggers, Chaindrite do one with a long thin metal metal sprayer which get into the cracks and crevices also it is a long term spray

Look like truck drivers to me....

Yes the fled the scene and went there

There are so many beautiful drives the one I really love is Chanterburi to the border thru Trat, the Cambodian mountains on one side and some great beaches on the other. Alao the narrowist place in Thailand.

But you have a great national park just north of you Kao Yai is a great scenic route

make yourself a couple of tool bars and get rid of the clutter

The best solution is to andd an extra clause to the 30 year rent that only you can sell the land fully acceptabe in Thai law

pub sausages in Uk are usually boiled first then fried or grilled

Surely it's Melton Mowbray?

@ JohnBKK on another subject - slightly!

How about an "idiots' guide" to cooking the various sausage "types" you produce?

I imagine some are better fried, others grilled etc. but I have absolutely no idea what should best be done with each type!

Patrick

Hi Wiley

never buy a black keyboard can't change it anymore now - trying to type blind lol and always forget to proof read.....

I love Cumberland sausage and pork or pork & veal pies, but I live in Rayong do you deliver here or sell in Pattaya which is not far.

Pete

Anyway as to the sausages all our sausages can be pan-fried or done in a skillet (which looks very nice as well) - some, like the Thueringer Rostbratwurst is perfect for BBQ but equally good when done in a skillet or on/under a grill - a friend of mine uses a gas grill which is perfect - we deliver every week 1.4 meter long rolled-up Cumberland sausages to a customer where they have them on the BBQ buffet for lunch/dinner and a Chef carves them for customers - must be very popular considering the orders - my favorite way of serving sausages when having a get together is a mix of 3-4 sausage types on a large plate with roasted tatties (of course roasted in goose fat) and a mountain of Sauerkraut in the centre -

Before I forget, the secret to perfectly done sausages in a pan or skillet is to use a moderate heat to slowly brown them which means the are hot on the inside as well - but whatever you do - do not deep-fry them !!!

Should the sausages be frozen, just place them into hot (not boiling) water for a few minutes - remove them - dry them and fry or grill -

i bought a GPS fishfinder from EBay it is great caught some good fish but can't seem to download the GPS software of maps

My friend had a stroke a couple months ago and is living like a plant now.He is living in his house with his girlfriend and her children and partners.Now he can´t withdraw money from an ATM machine anymore so they do it,they know his pincode.They already stole huge amount of money from his accounts in homecoutry with visa and maestro cards until his daughter found out of course.His daughter is coming over in a few weeks and wants to take him home.Now she asked me wat the options are about the house.He bought it for 700000 baht,it´s on his girlfriens name and he has the 30 year leasecontract.Can his daughter put the house on sale?Thanks in advance.

There is a little known Thai ammendment to a 30 year lease where the renter can become the only seller but few people know this if anyone wants to know more email me.

i would think in this case the Emabassy needs to help.

I have been suprised I live on a jungled mountain so no near bakeries, I brought a breadmaker from Uk and all the necessitties but somehow it will not make good bread here with local or imported ingredients anyone any ideas

I stayed at the Travel Lodge in Brisbane, a family run affair such nice people and very reasonably priced

Eddie Cochran no Buddy Holly next

Shrimp used to do some great ones here

You will all, if you are lucky be old one day lol.

I always tell friends here and elsewhere never carry or have available more than you can afford to lose, especially when whoring.